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On June 23 2011 20:08 xtfftc wrote:
Everyone knows by now that piracy boosts the longterm sales - of music, of books, of games, of everything. Everyone but incompetent CEOs trying to increase their end-of-the-year bonuses.
I'd disagree. From a business standpoint facilitating piracy really offers no benefit; it's equivalent to making a product and giving it away for free. On top of that the scope of piracy is pretty huge, and Starcraft isn't something that benefits much from other merchandise (except for the occasional blizzard strategy book very few people buy). If it does, I highly doubt it's enough to compensate for losing millions of potential purchases.
What I don't nderstand though, is why blizzard refuses to implement LAN and make it available only for tourney organizes. Almost every major tourney (including Blizzcon ironically) has had lag issues.
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The trick to managing piracy is making it hard enough that 90% or so of the consumers can't do it. The last 10% (in private encrypted anonymous dark networks and their friends) doesn't matter.
But I have to admit I know more than 1 person who has bought a game just because warez version didn't allow multiplayer gaming.
On other hand, the same persons have just abondoned whole games (and game series) because they didn't have money to buy it.
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On June 23 2011 20:45 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 20:42 MulletMurdoc wrote:
Seems like an excuse to cut costs to me, while still raking in every last penny they can suck out of the general consumer.
The cost of implementing LAN would be trivial, so no. It's about piracy and always has been.
Such a bold statement... any proof?
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On June 23 2011 20:45 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 20:42 MulletMurdoc wrote:
Seems like an excuse to cut costs to me, while still raking in every last penny they can suck out of the general consumer.
Yeah implementing LAN in a modern game sure is expensive... It's not like this thread is full of valid speculations/arguments on why LAN was removed, all better than yours.
Sarcasim... another very mature response. Well played sir
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On June 23 2011 21:20 MulletMurdoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 20:45 karpo wrote:On June 23 2011 20:42 MulletMurdoc wrote:
Seems like an excuse to cut costs to me, while still raking in every last penny they can suck out of the general consumer.
Yeah implementing LAN in a modern game sure is expensive... It's not like this thread is full of valid speculations/arguments on why LAN was removed, all better than yours. Sarcasim... another very mature response. Well played sir
He's right, you are clueless on the subject if you believe they cut LAN because of the development cost. If they wanted to "rake in every last penny they can suck out of the general consumer" and nothing else we'd have cosmetic DLC by now.
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On June 23 2011 21:20 MulletMurdoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 20:45 karpo wrote:On June 23 2011 20:42 MulletMurdoc wrote:
Seems like an excuse to cut costs to me, while still raking in every last penny they can suck out of the general consumer.
Yeah implementing LAN in a modern game sure is expensive... It's not like this thread is full of valid speculations/arguments on why LAN was removed, all better than yours. Sarcasim... another very mature response. Well played sir
Sarcasm in response to a totally pointless post with no facts or even arguments to back it up. "I think blizzard are greedy money suckers" - thats the only thing your post says and it wasn't just me that responded in kind.
I think SC2 even had LAN implemented at one point but it was removed... Maybe that's a pointer towards it not being about cutting dev costs for one of the easiest multiplayer functions out there.
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On June 23 2011 21:02 TheSubtleArt wrote:
What I don't nderstand though, is why blizzard refuses to implement LAN and make it available only for tourney organizes. Almost every major tourney (including Blizzcon ironically) has had lag issues.
i actually wrote a paragraph on this in my post on page 7 but found it redundant and edited out.
it's very simple. once you enable lan in the game, it will get cracked, yes, you can make versions for tournament organizers, but they'll always leak out and you'll always have to recode the game to disable the lan feature you allowed for a tourney after it's done.
and then hackers are going to use your code and make an alternative lan version that may not be the same as the original in form but will be the same in content, aka the multiplayer. and SC isn't a game like WOW that you can pirate and you can ignore the million private servers because your content is significantly different than the pirates', once a method to lan gets leaked, the whole game transfers over to the competent hackers and millions of pirates.
only way you can handle it thus far has been the blizz way or the f2p model which is retarded as fuck imo. i could think of some other possibilities to make lan happen going out of your way to please the fans, but i don't see any being cost effective for any company save possibly blizzard and a few others.
ps: i'm amazed at the things people spew out of their mouths on this issue. no lan seems like a no-brainer for the current state of affairs in the gaming world, and all these arguments that "companies killed lan, not the pirates !!" or "where does it stop with the greed, piracy isn't that big a deal" sound really (dowright willingly) ignorant to me.
companies need to downprice their games that's for sure, but stop vilifying the people that create most of your entertainment wanting to protect their work and earn their monetary compensation for it just because you for one "would have bought" this or that game instead of pirating it.
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In my country, many people are waiting for LAN to buy the game in pirate version .D
Edit:
Most of my friends only spent 4-5 hours for playing the "sh**ty" singleplayer.
They bought the game as pirate .
If there was LAN they would play lie 1000000 hours 
I also dont want my 140 TL to be wasted. I would get it as pirate if I could play it on garena or something .
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and it will be discussed many times over
punish a class for a couple kids acting out of line
oh well
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On June 23 2011 19:11 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 18:52 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 23 2011 18:40 lorkac wrote:On June 23 2011 18:28 Slegg wrote:
Pirates are not stealing from companies
Sure, to take it literally they are but a lot of them would never buy your game.
They should a must be thought of as potential customers, not people who steal, companies should try to motivate them to buy their games, not fight against them and piss of their fans in the process.
People who intend to steal never intend to buy the product--that is why they steal. This sentence is aggravating to hear because it means absolutely nothing. . Yea, but when you steal you're taking something away from someone. With pirating you are just copying it, which is why the argument "i wouldnt have bought it anyways" is a good one, but one which you cant apply to stealing. So many games today you can just pirate, but they still make tons and tons of money, pirating doesnt mean that you wont sell any games. And actually i think often times pirating helps to sell games by sort of spreading the word. And sc2 not having LAN probably means that a lot of people wont buy it as well. It *is* stealing. Stealing is not the act of someone losing something. It is the act of taking something from someone that he did not intend for you to have. If I raped your sister, and then told you "I didn't kill her, you still get her back" it would not be acceptable at all. If I licked your burger and told you "I just wanted to taste it in case I wanted to buy one" it would not be acceptable at all. If I hotwired your car and drove it around for a few months and gave it back--IT WOULD NOT BE OKAY. The logic of "I left something behind so it's okay" is bad logic.
Those analogies are terrible. It's more like "I took a picture of your sister and masturbated to her." She wasn't harmed in the process, but it's still not pleasant.
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The OP really makes me punch someone or at least something.
Oh, the bad pirates!
The software companies, with their infinite lobbying power, have established an unprecedented legal state, where software is not goods. It is the only market when the buyer is in a position far superior to the seller. We are all used to the "EULAs" - yet if you were to stick anything like that on anything else (say, a fridge), it would be outright illegal. Only in software business has the seller the right to limit the cumstomer's rights. Only there he can stop you from reselling the product and you somehow magically are not entitled to ask for money back if it does not work.
And last but not least, look at all the "anti-piracy measures", that do not harm the pirates in any way, but often piss the hell out of legal users.It is actually better donwload pirated copies of the software we payed for, when possible for that reason!
So if they want to point fingers, they rather find themselves a mirror!
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On June 23 2011 21:59 MasterJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 19:11 lorkac wrote:On June 23 2011 18:52 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 23 2011 18:40 lorkac wrote:On June 23 2011 18:28 Slegg wrote:
Pirates are not stealing from companies
Sure, to take it literally they are but a lot of them would never buy your game.
They should a must be thought of as potential customers, not people who steal, companies should try to motivate them to buy their games, not fight against them and piss of their fans in the process.
People who intend to steal never intend to buy the product--that is why they steal. This sentence is aggravating to hear because it means absolutely nothing. . Yea, but when you steal you're taking something away from someone. With pirating you are just copying it, which is why the argument "i wouldnt have bought it anyways" is a good one, but one which you cant apply to stealing. So many games today you can just pirate, but they still make tons and tons of money, pirating doesnt mean that you wont sell any games. And actually i think often times pirating helps to sell games by sort of spreading the word. And sc2 not having LAN probably means that a lot of people wont buy it as well. It *is* stealing. Stealing is not the act of someone losing something. It is the act of taking something from someone that he did not intend for you to have. If I raped your sister, and then told you "I didn't kill her, you still get her back" it would not be acceptable at all. If I licked your burger and told you "I just wanted to taste it in case I wanted to buy one" it would not be acceptable at all. If I hotwired your car and drove it around for a few months and gave it back--IT WOULD NOT BE OKAY. The logic of "I left something behind so it's okay" is bad logic. Those analogies are terrible. It's more like "I took a picture of your sister and masturbated to her." She wasn't harmed in the process, but it's still not pleasant.
Better analogy - Walk into EBGames or w/e take game off shelf, it's ok because I would never pay for it.
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On June 23 2011 20:08 xtfftc wrote:
Everyone knows by now that piracy boosts the longterm sales - of music, of books, of games, of everything. Everyone but incompetent CEOs trying to increase their end-of-the-year bonuses.
No. Kids on the internet who want to play games for free know that.
General hint: If you think you know something super important, and all the important people haven't thought of it because they are stupid, you're most likely wrong.
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On June 23 2011 22:06 Skithiryx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:59 MasterJack wrote:On June 23 2011 19:11 lorkac wrote:On June 23 2011 18:52 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 23 2011 18:40 lorkac wrote:On June 23 2011 18:28 Slegg wrote:
Pirates are not stealing from companies
Sure, to take it literally they are but a lot of them would never buy your game.
They should a must be thought of as potential customers, not people who steal, companies should try to motivate them to buy their games, not fight against them and piss of their fans in the process.
People who intend to steal never intend to buy the product--that is why they steal. This sentence is aggravating to hear because it means absolutely nothing. . Yea, but when you steal you're taking something away from someone. With pirating you are just copying it, which is why the argument "i wouldnt have bought it anyways" is a good one, but one which you cant apply to stealing. So many games today you can just pirate, but they still make tons and tons of money, pirating doesnt mean that you wont sell any games. And actually i think often times pirating helps to sell games by sort of spreading the word. And sc2 not having LAN probably means that a lot of people wont buy it as well. It *is* stealing. Stealing is not the act of someone losing something. It is the act of taking something from someone that he did not intend for you to have. If I raped your sister, and then told you "I didn't kill her, you still get her back" it would not be acceptable at all. If I licked your burger and told you "I just wanted to taste it in case I wanted to buy one" it would not be acceptable at all. If I hotwired your car and drove it around for a few months and gave it back--IT WOULD NOT BE OKAY. The logic of "I left something behind so it's okay" is bad logic. Those analogies are terrible. It's more like "I took a picture of your sister and masturbated to her." She wasn't harmed in the process, but it's still not pleasant. Better analogy - Walk into EBGames or w/e take game off shelf, it's ok because I would never pay for it.
That's a physical copy of something that's taken time and resources to produce. An actual analogy would be like walking into a book store, opening a book and copying it out word for word. Chances are you'll get kicked out, but the owner would never for a second think of phoning the police to say you were stealing the book, because copying things just isn't theft.
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On June 23 2011 22:06 Skithiryx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:59 MasterJack wrote:On June 23 2011 19:11 lorkac wrote:On June 23 2011 18:52 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 23 2011 18:40 lorkac wrote:On June 23 2011 18:28 Slegg wrote:
Pirates are not stealing from companies
Sure, to take it literally they are but a lot of them would never buy your game.
They should a must be thought of as potential customers, not people who steal, companies should try to motivate them to buy their games, not fight against them and piss of their fans in the process.
People who intend to steal never intend to buy the product--that is why they steal. This sentence is aggravating to hear because it means absolutely nothing. . Yea, but when you steal you're taking something away from someone. With pirating you are just copying it, which is why the argument "i wouldnt have bought it anyways" is a good one, but one which you cant apply to stealing. So many games today you can just pirate, but they still make tons and tons of money, pirating doesnt mean that you wont sell any games. And actually i think often times pirating helps to sell games by sort of spreading the word. And sc2 not having LAN probably means that a lot of people wont buy it as well. It *is* stealing. Stealing is not the act of someone losing something. It is the act of taking something from someone that he did not intend for you to have. If I raped your sister, and then told you "I didn't kill her, you still get her back" it would not be acceptable at all. If I licked your burger and told you "I just wanted to taste it in case I wanted to buy one" it would not be acceptable at all. If I hotwired your car and drove it around for a few months and gave it back--IT WOULD NOT BE OKAY. The logic of "I left something behind so it's okay" is bad logic. Those analogies are terrible. It's more like "I took a picture of your sister and masturbated to her." She wasn't harmed in the process, but it's still not pleasant. Better analogy - Walk into EBGames or w/e take game off shelf, it's ok because I would never pay for it.
Pirating something doesn't remove the original dipshit, that's why pirating doesn't equal stealing.
Stealing = taking the original, now it's gone and the profit for the item is removed(e.g you lose it)
Pirating = Taking a copy of the original, the item is still there but you may have lost a potential customer, but you can sell the original to someone else.
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Saying that pirates wouldn't have bought the game is partially a stupid argument, they wouldn't stop being gamers just because they can't get games for free. This would make them buy SOME games, not all off the games they downloaded.
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On June 23 2011 14:12 visual77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 13:32 dragonblade369 wrote:On June 23 2011 13:27 dbddbddb wrote:On June 23 2011 13:19 dragonblade369 wrote:On June 23 2011 12:22 4of8 wrote:
The question should be more like this : "If there is no LAN-Modus, is any pirate interested in this fact?"
And the answer is NO!
Why?
- Because the big majority of the people, who are getting a cracked copy of a game are only interested in the single player modus.
I mean take WoW, this is a game what should be only played online. Still there are a lot of private servers for cracked versions of this game. Take Half-Life2 a couple of days after it was released a "friend" of mine was offering a cracked version of it to me, which didn't need any online bla...
On the other hand if SC1 didn't have a spawn version, you can be sure I wouldn't have bought this game.
The biggest problem in the modern game industry is , they underestimate the capabilities of the pirates on the one hand and at the other side we have bunch of people in the management, which don't have any clue, what the customers (fans) really want.
If you are a fan of game you will in 95% of the cases buy it. If you just need a lil bit entertainment for a weekend, who would really pay 40-50$ unless you have to much money?
By saying pirates are killing the LAN, you are only searching for an easy excuse. Sure with an already included LAN system, you take a lot of work from the pirates, but if you believe without LAN you could prevent them for cracking your game, you are just stupid. There is one tip that I have to give you there. Do not take your own experience as the common things experienced by everyone. Even been to China? Brazil? People stopped playing on the legit Battle.Net because there is literally -nobody- there. Everyone are on Garena or other servers playing their pirated copy of game. Stats like " [...] 95% of the cases [...]" is total BS. Do not standardize your view on a subject. Currently, the single player is sc2 IS free. NO need to hack or anything. just log into your account once on your friend's computer. Tell him to disable internet and play offline. Voila, 100% of the singleplayer is free. Now, without the LAN capability, the only way of pirating the game is to make an emulation of the bnet server. I am pretty sure there is one already out, but I really doubt its functionality. isnt ICCup for BW illegal then? my friends lost their BW cd keys and technically couldnt play online.. so we just logged on ICCup and there.. free online for us Technically it is illegal. It is like saying that you lost a toy so you stole another... free toy! I read this, and after having an aneurysm, I thought about why people have no concept of the difference between digitally copying something and physically stealing something. I still have no idea. Thankfully I have health insurance to cover future brain damage.
Well you better use that insurance now to fix your brain and then re-read what I wrote and the quote included. Then you might notice something!
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It makes me sad that people WANT to pirate the best things in the world. When it comes to fast food, gas, energy that hurts the enviroment, taxes, and other things that are "bs" people stand down and buy it all. But charging money for video games and movies!?! Thats where pirates draw the line THAT should be free?!!!
I gladly pay for video games/sc2 tournys and movies knowing I am supporting people doing what they love, their passion. Everytime anyone pays for something they are basically voting. They are saying I like this product I want it to continue being made.
I don't get how people don't see how buying a game directly supports the people who made it.
Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is living their dream and making games / movies. For all the things in this world that are over priced and a rip off I think games and movies are the cheapest pleasures anyone can buy.
I think a lot of pirates are high school and college aged kids, I know some who when I tell to watch a movie or play a game they ask how much I paid, laugh, and then say "maybe I'll download it". They do this cause they have no money but want the content. I hope that once they get a job they start to pay for movies and games to support the people making them. I do feel for people that can't afford all the games they want. It's not entirly black and white but pirating is deffinatly wrong compared with all the other bullshit people put up with and don't do anything about it.
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On June 23 2011 21:02 TheSubtleArt wrote:
I'd disagree. From a business standpoint facilitating piracy really offers no benefit; it's equivalent to making a product and giving it away for free. On top of that the scope of piracy is pretty huge, and Starcraft isn't something that benefits much from other merchandise (except for the occasional blizzard strategy book very few people buy). If it does, I highly doubt it's enough to compensate for losing millions of potential purchases.
What I don't nderstand though, is why blizzard refuses to implement LAN and make it available only for tourney organizes. Almost every major tourney (including Blizzcon ironically) has had lag issues.
Even offering that they would either need:
1) An entirely seperate binary for LAN versus Retail that requires they keep two builds in sync and modify two codebases unless the LAN support was a DLL plug-in. At any rate, it's more overhead.
2) Have the LAN capability coded into the Retail release and require some form of hardware dongle to unlock it.
Both of these scenanrios will not deter piracy, instead it will open the floodgates since option 1 would be leaked, and option 2 would be relatively easy to circumvent when you have the binary and need only figure out what it is looking for on the hardware dongle. At the end of the day there is no good answer to this and there won't be as long as softwaere development APIs/Frameworks remain the same (ie. easy to inject code into a binary's memory space, easy to read a binary's memory space and manipulate it in real-time, etc) the only real option is to require authentication against a central server (such as BNet) which negates the reason behind having LAN support in the first place.
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EPT
