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On June 23 2011 12:00 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 11:57 branflakes14 wrote:On June 23 2011 11:54 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 11:52 gurrpp wrote:
I think the solution is to just start developing games for free and rely on a microtransaction model. The whole idea of games as a service is definitely more lucrative than selling retail imo and its pointless for the consumer to pirate a game they can download for free anyway.
Having basic functionality be free, such as LAN, while requiring a monthly fee to play online would be ideal.
Obviously this only applies purely to multiplayer games, so I'm not sure how content such as sc2's campaign could be handled. ..Are you seriously saying you think the solution to this is to have a subscription fee + item shop? Are you fucking serious? Could you come up with an even more stupid idea? Nothing in that post mentioned a subscription. I think he meant games along the lines of League of Legends. Free with optional cash stuff if you like the game. Uhhhhh
Oh god, I read through that 4 god damn times. I stand corrected. That's 4am for you.
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On June 23 2011 11:56 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 11:39 ak1knight wrote:On June 23 2011 11:24 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Funny how you guys keep going on when I've already showed you the perfect unexploitable solution for this whole lag problem. Blizzard needs to implement Dual Screen Play. Every modern machine has 2 video outs and enough USB slots to hook up all the required equipment. All we lack is a software patch by blizzard. That would take one heck of a computer to run. Considering that most pros prefer to play at the lowest settings, I strongly doubt it. Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 11:37 latan wrote:On June 23 2011 11:31 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:On June 23 2011 11:28 branflakes14 wrote:On June 23 2011 11:24 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Funny how you guys keep going on when I've already showed you the perfect unexploitable solution for this whole lag problem. Blizzard needs to implement Dual Screen Play. Every modern machine has 2 video outs and enough USB slots to hook up all the required equipment. All we lack is a software patch by blizzard. Sounds exploitable to me. It's a videosignal generated by a GPU, you can't just reroute it to somewhere without any signficant loss in quality and huge delay. On June 23 2011 11:27 latan wrote:On June 23 2011 11:24 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Funny how you guys keep going on when I've already showed you the perfect unexploitable solution for this whole lag problem. Blizzard needs to implement Dual Screen Play. Every modern machine has 2 video outs and enough USB slots to hook up all the required equipment. All we lack is a software patch by blizzard. Because your solution only addresses 2 player matches. Pick one: A solution or No solution Yes you're right. I pick a solution: LAN. What you are proposing a PARTIAL solution that would benefit almost no-one, but would take developer time to be implemented. So actually, no solution is better than your "perfect" alternative. The benefit for professional play would be huge.
You are forgetting about observers and referees. as i said, almost useless.
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On June 23 2011 11:54 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 11:52 gurrpp wrote:
I think the solution is to just start developing games for free and rely on a microtransaction model. The whole idea of games as a service is definitely more lucrative than selling retail imo and its pointless for the consumer to pirate a game they can download for free anyway.
Having basic functionality be free, such as LAN, while requiring a monthly fee to play online would be ideal.
Obviously this only applies purely to multiplayer games, so I'm not sure how content such as sc2's campaign could be handled. ..Are you seriously saying you think the solution to this is to have a subscription fee + item shop? Are you fucking serious? Could you come up with an even more stupid idea?
He's kind of half right. I don't know about the monthly fee, but having an item shop/other microtransactions is extremely lucrative in the present. Just look at League of Legends' format, they have a highly successful business model and are making a huge profit off of it. If that business model were to be refined even more, it would be hugely successful for any game company that wants to have online play.
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Pirates did not kill LAN, every company that refuses to put it in their games has contributed to killing LAN.
Pirates did not make the decisions to not release it as an option, so the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of whoever decided that for each and every company who has perpetuated the choice.
There will always be pirates, and like Notch, and other outspoken people have said, providing the player with services they couldn't have with a pirated version is much more likely to entice pirates to buy the software than removing features everyone could use just to cripple pirated versions. Pirates are gamers too, and if the companies can offer us something we genuinely want, we may consider buying your game, but if they strip us of any consolation for pirating an already less-useful version of the game, then we're likely to refuse to pay just to spite them.
Removal of LAN capabilities does not stop pirates. It simply penalizes legitimate players of the game, removing an extremely useful option, forcing them to rely on a centralized system for all online gameplay. We've all see what can happen to battle.net at times, whether it's benign bugs, crippling lag, or the servers going offline constantly. Even a company as large ans powerful as Activision-Blizzard cannot keep 100% uptime for their servers, which means that we the player loses out.
And to make matters even more ridiculous, the only thing that needs to be done to give pirates the same game as legitimate players is for someone to develop a battle.net 2.0 server emulator, which was in the works a while ago and showed considerable progress in a rather short time. If the people who were developing that emulator had not stopped in the face of lawsuits, they may very well could have completed the project and things would be even worse off for Activision-Blizzard.
I was waiting for that server emulator to be released, because I figured I wouldn't have the money available to buy SC2, so I had no plan on paying for it, I was lucky enough to have money at the right time, and bought SC2, but I would have been completely fine with pirating it if that server emulator had been released before I had the money.
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On June 23 2011 10:21 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:59 BroboCop wrote:
im confused how putting a lan option for sc2 would lower revenue(in any sense) as i will elaborate below.
okay lets assume with the lan feature you can create any map (and we will assume no one makes recreations of the campaign as maps). So if your by yourself you can only play vs computers, which isn't much training at all seeing playing against something that gets more minerals per trip, map hacks, and can have perfect macro is never going to happen in a normal game. Now yes, you can play with buddies/family/etc, but that means they would have to bring their rig over to your house or you have a spare computer, which, seems highly unlikely as 2 people playing together over and over and over after awhile should get boring. Furthermore, how are you ever going to become better at the game if you only have a limited number of practice partners, the whole point of playing online games is for the ONLINE community. The whole point of laning is to either: have fun with friends or in off-line competitions. And when you're playing with friends, almost everyone wants to "be the best" so they have "bragging rights" so to speak. And if you want to be the best... you would need to play on a regular basis, and in most cases playing on a regular basis won't be achieved purely through playing in lans and therefore, you would need the game to play ladder in order to get better. And if you need the game, you would have to buy it. As for competitive play [i will use MLG in this example], no one is going to play unless they: are "good" such as a pro player or would just like to go to have fun (getting "owned" by a pro), but most likely, a person willing to drop $70 on an mlg ticket is already an avid player, spectator, and community-contributing individual and why would they drop $70 to get owned when they could buy the game for $50?
For example, I know 20~ people IRL that play sc2 from school etc. 15~ aren't even close to active, so I would never be able to lan with them and ontop of that, there are only 2 of us that are actually good. top master (myself) and GM (my buddy). There is only so much you can do on lan because you have to be on the same network and for "logistical reasons" i don't see people using it as the only medium for playing the game. Yes, there will be exceptions but they will be out-liers, so why worry?
Lastly, if your product isn't "pirateable" someone will just pirate something else that is free and play it. They never would pay for it in the beginning, however, with starcraft you can only accomplish so much in a LAN setting, thus if they truly "like the game" after playing with buddies for several weeks or a month they may have the sense to go out and buy it.
I would like to see a counter-argument(s) that would prove me wrong but in essence my logic is: people would have never played the game before because it costs $$ -> [assume lan function here]they like the lan which has only limited features due to the "logistics" of how lans work -> said person decides to buy the game because they want to play it more and not be limited by needing to lan.
The only forseeable problem I could see is college campuses (where a network would be fucking huge). A pirated game wouldn't be able to run only on actual LAN. There are coutless programs that replicate a "battle.net" where pirated copies can run just fine. Take WC3 for example. I have the original copy, a few of my friends have original copies, NOONE I know has recently played on battle.net, because everyone plays on Garena, or Eurobattle, or whatever the server where piracy doesn't matter. They basically replace battle.net, specially on places where piracy is a lot more common, which is the case of Brazil, and specially China. These servers have several times more people than battle.net. They have ladders, premium memberships and basically make money on the fact that people will play cracked versions online. So no, you don't have to be on the same network to enjoy the benefits of a cracked game, and LAN support, WC3, probally the closest example we can find to draw parallels to SC2, proves that. Blizzard's experience with the rampart piracy of WC3, it's probally the most played game in this kind of servers (not in small part because of DOTA), is probally a big reason there is no LAN in SC2.
it costs money to brunt the bill of hosting servers though. so my question to this is: where does the money come from to host said servers that work "better than battlenet"? Back when I played lineage 2 as my main game I sometimes would goof off on "private servers" for example and the servers were trash because well... there was no money to be made off "private servers" because the whole point of them was to not pay for the game and play on them, thus they were poorly maintained.
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On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks.
Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. You are some random with 4 posts who is saying "I know for a fact that the majority of pirates just do it to steal!!!!"
Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second.
Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up.
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On June 23 2011 07:10 mdma-_- wrote:
that still doesnt explain why they cant allow people to play each other in lan with the necessecity of being logged into bnet/whatever online client.
cheap excuse just to blame it on pirates tbh
Very easy to modify a client to think it's connected to a central server when it isn't.
Personally, I'm not all that bothered. It's incredibly rare for me and my friends to be playing locally without having a decent connection available. There are many other things I'd rather the HoN developers do before even mentioning adding LAN support. For one, optimizing the OSX version of the client a little better.
Also, I have absolutely no problem buying a game if it's good, and priced appropriately. Unfortunately, with the sheer volume of terrible games that are over-hyped and under-developed, and the ridiculous prices being charged for games these days (as much as $120-130NZ these days), without being able to try the game before-hand, I don't bother buying games.
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On June 23 2011 12:01 Bobbias wrote:
I was waiting for that server emulator to be released, because I figured I wouldn't have the money available to buy SC2, so I had no plan on paying for it, I was lucky enough to have money at the right time, and bought SC2, but I would have been completely fine with pirating it if that server emulator had been released before I had the money.
Looks like their strategy worked after all.
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On June 23 2011 12:03 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks. So essentially, I got a legitimate poll of 12,000 people -- and you got yourself going LOL IT'S BIASED AND WRONG AND SINCE PIRATES ARE THE MOST IMMORAL PEOPLE ON EARTH IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE AND WRONG. Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second. Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up.
You do know what response bias is, right? It's like going to colleges and asking students if they smoke marijuana. You see examples of this every day.
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On June 23 2011 12:03 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks. So essentially, I got a legitimate poll of 12,000 people -- and you got yourself going LOL IT'S BIASED AND WRONG AND SINCE PIRATES ARE THE MOST IMMORAL PEOPLE ON EARTH IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE AND WRONG. Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second. Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up.
First of all, it is legally wrong. It's against the law. You seem confused.
Second of all, an internet poll asking people to self-report something morally wrong is completely useless and anyone without your distorted logic can see it.
Finally, the poll asked if they will buy it when it's "amazing." Again, it's pretty easy to talk yourself out of considering something amazing if it saves you money. It's also completely unfair to the games that aren't "amazing" but are "good." I don't see why you think people are entitled to consume for free and only pay if they are truly amazed.
I'm curious, what do you do for money?
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On June 23 2011 12:07 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 12:03 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks. So essentially, I got a legitimate poll of 12,000 people -- and you got yourself going LOL IT'S BIASED AND WRONG AND SINCE PIRATES ARE THE MOST IMMORAL PEOPLE ON EARTH IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE AND WRONG. Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second. Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up. You do know what response bias is, right? It's like going to colleges and asking students if they smoke marijuana. You see examples of this every day.
Or asking a publisher whether or not piracy is lost sales :D
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On June 23 2011 12:07 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 12:03 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks. So essentially, I got a legitimate poll of 12,000 people -- and you got yourself going LOL IT'S BIASED AND WRONG AND SINCE PIRATES ARE THE MOST IMMORAL PEOPLE ON EARTH IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE AND WRONG. Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second. Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up. You do know what response bias is, right? It's like going to colleges and asking students if they smoke marijuana. You see examples of this every day.
If you spent any amount of time in Bitgamer and in the piracy community, as I said multiple times -- it would only reaffirm those statistics.
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On June 23 2011 12:08 mannerplease wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 12:03 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks. So essentially, I got a legitimate poll of 12,000 people -- and you got yourself going LOL IT'S BIASED AND WRONG AND SINCE PIRATES ARE THE MOST IMMORAL PEOPLE ON EARTH IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE AND WRONG. Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second. Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up. First of all, it is legally wrong. It's against the law. You seem confused. Second of all, an internet poll asking people to self-report something morally wrong is completely useless and anyone without your distorted logic can see it. Finally, the poll asked if they will buy it when it's "amazing." Again, it's pretty easy to talk yourself out of considering something amazing if it saves you money. It's also completely unfair to the games that aren't "amazing" but are "good." I don't see why you think people are entitled to consume for free and only pay if they are truly amazed. I'm curious, what do you do for money?
First of all, no it's not. YOU clearly don't understand the law. It's against the law to provide the files, which is why all major crackers and torrent suppliers are from foreign soil. The actual downloading of them is still being debated.
Second of all, I got numbers, a whole community reaffirming those numbers and people in this thread reaffirming those numbers. Stop assuming any numbers against your point is "distorted"
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On June 23 2011 12:09 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 12:07 Zeke50100 wrote:On June 23 2011 12:03 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks. So essentially, I got a legitimate poll of 12,000 people -- and you got yourself going LOL IT'S BIASED AND WRONG AND SINCE PIRATES ARE THE MOST IMMORAL PEOPLE ON EARTH IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE AND WRONG. Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second. Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up. You do know what response bias is, right? It's like going to colleges and asking students if they smoke marijuana. You see examples of this every day. If you spent any amount of time in Bitgamer and in the piracy community, as I said multiple times -- it would only reaffirm those statistics.
How do you know people actually buy games when they claim to?
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s2 allows for HoN to be played free on Garena in Southeast Asia. The players there are ip region blocked from joining their original servers. I think this is a win-win situation. Piracy is pretty prevalent there. A lot of players in SEA play DotA because of LAN and TFT is easily pirated. I'm sure s2 has worked out some deal with Garena. I think that's pretty smart of them tbh.
Personally I just bought Dungeon Siege 3. I finished the game in maybe 14-15 hrs. I am really glad I bought sc2 and HoN because I've spent way more time on those 2 games than I'll ever on DS3. (at most i'll replay DS3 once).
I will gladly pay for any good game a good developer puts out. Regardless of LAN feature or not. As long as they make good games that I enjoy, as an individual consumer, I'll be happy to pay my money for it.
Dungeon Siege 3 imo was pretty well made. Me and friend had fun playing Local co-op but it was a tad short. Wish they did something like Torchlight where you could keep hunting for items and etc lol.
Edit :- I think it's just 4-5 countries like SG, MY, Thai, Viet in SEA.
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On June 23 2011 12:11 mannerplease wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 12:09 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 12:07 Zeke50100 wrote:On June 23 2011 12:03 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks. So essentially, I got a legitimate poll of 12,000 people -- and you got yourself going LOL IT'S BIASED AND WRONG AND SINCE PIRATES ARE THE MOST IMMORAL PEOPLE ON EARTH IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE AND WRONG. Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second. Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up. You do know what response bias is, right? It's like going to colleges and asking students if they smoke marijuana. You see examples of this every day. If you spent any amount of time in Bitgamer and in the piracy community, as I said multiple times -- it would only reaffirm those statistics. How do you know people actually buy games when they claim to?
So your argument is that people are lying (for no reason) that they are buying games? Both on a non-consequential poll, and thousands of people on forums and comment postings? There's a conspiracy out there to actually convince people we are buying games?
There's a time to stop posting. This is about that time for you.
I got actual people backing my points up and you got theoretical situations of a giant conspiracy against everyone.
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On June 23 2011 12:11 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 12:08 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 12:03 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks. So essentially, I got a legitimate poll of 12,000 people -- and you got yourself going LOL IT'S BIASED AND WRONG AND SINCE PIRATES ARE THE MOST IMMORAL PEOPLE ON EARTH IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE AND WRONG. Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second. Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up. First of all, it is legally wrong. It's against the law. You seem confused. Second of all, an internet poll asking people to self-report something morally wrong is completely useless and anyone without your distorted logic can see it. Finally, the poll asked if they will buy it when it's "amazing." Again, it's pretty easy to talk yourself out of considering something amazing if it saves you money. It's also completely unfair to the games that aren't "amazing" but are "good." I don't see why you think people are entitled to consume for free and only pay if they are truly amazed. I'm curious, what do you do for money? First of all, no it's not. YOU clearly don't understand the law. It's against the law to provide the files, which is why all major crackers and torrent suppliers are from foreign soil. The actual downloading of them is still being debated. Second of all, I got numbers, a whole community reaffirming those numbers and people in this thread reaffirming those numbers. Stop assuming any numbers against your point is "distorted"
You don't have numbers because you have no way of verifying that any of those numbers are real. If I surveyed everyone about how often they committed homicide, I'm pretty sure it would come up a lot lower than the actual murder rate. I couldn't then run around saying I have a source that proves the murder rate is zero.
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On June 23 2011 12:12 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 12:11 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 12:09 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 12:07 Zeke50100 wrote:On June 23 2011 12:03 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks. So essentially, I got a legitimate poll of 12,000 people -- and you got yourself going LOL IT'S BIASED AND WRONG AND SINCE PIRATES ARE THE MOST IMMORAL PEOPLE ON EARTH IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE AND WRONG. Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second. Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up. You do know what response bias is, right? It's like going to colleges and asking students if they smoke marijuana. You see examples of this every day. If you spent any amount of time in Bitgamer and in the piracy community, as I said multiple times -- it would only reaffirm those statistics. How do you know people actually buy games when they claim to? So your argument is that people are lying (for no reason) that they are buying games? Both on a non-consequential poll, and thousands of people on forums and comment postings? There's a conspiracy out there to actually convince people we are buying games? There's a time to stop posting. This is about that time for you. I got actual people backing my points up and you got theoretical situations of a giant conspiracy against everyone.
It's psychological. People want to convince themselves they are not bad people. So the one time they bought a game they thought was great allows them to check that on the poll, never mind the 100 times they said "ehh, it was ok, I'm not going to buy it."
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On June 23 2011 12:12 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 12:11 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 12:09 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 12:07 Zeke50100 wrote:On June 23 2011 12:03 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks. So essentially, I got a legitimate poll of 12,000 people -- and you got yourself going LOL IT'S BIASED AND WRONG AND SINCE PIRATES ARE THE MOST IMMORAL PEOPLE ON EARTH IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE AND WRONG. Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second. Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up. You do know what response bias is, right? It's like going to colleges and asking students if they smoke marijuana. You see examples of this every day. If you spent any amount of time in Bitgamer and in the piracy community, as I said multiple times -- it would only reaffirm those statistics. How do you know people actually buy games when they claim to? So your argument is that people are lying (for no reason) that they are buying games? Both on a non-consequential poll, and thousands of people on forums and comment postings? There's a conspiracy out there to actually convince people we are buying games? There's a time to stop posting. This is about that time for you. I got actual people backing my points up and you got theoretical situations of a giant conspiracy against everyone.
You probably should stop posting about statistics, actually. I support having LAN and agree that piracy is a stupid reason to keep it out, but this really is a disgrace to legitimate statistics >.>
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On June 23 2011 12:14 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 12:12 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 12:11 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 12:09 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 12:07 Zeke50100 wrote:On June 23 2011 12:03 Fruscainte wrote:On June 23 2011 11:58 mannerplease wrote:On June 23 2011 11:34 Fruscainte wrote:
The voice of "I PIRATE EVERYTHING SINCE I DONT PAY FOR EVERYTHING" is a very small part in the community but consequently the loudest -- giving the illusion they are the majority when in fact most of pirates hate their fucking guts if they like the game and don't buy it after.
These are potential customers that they are driving away as criminals. That's my issue with this crap. They take away something that is basically mandatory in a game like this and then when people flip a shit about it, they blame it on pirates. So you think self-reporting surveys are accurate. Do you really think that nobody lied about whether they buy the game? Furthermore, what about all the people who don't vote because they are ashamed. Or even better, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE APATHETIC means that the same people who don't give a shit about pirating and not buying are the same people who don't give a shit about your surveys examining the ethics of it. It's called a silent majority. You are in extreme rationalization mode if you really think most pirates buy games they like, and it's also a LOT easier to "not like" a game that you've played for 20 hours if it lets you talk yourself into keeping 60 bucks. So essentially, I got a legitimate poll of 12,000 people -- and you got yourself going LOL IT'S BIASED AND WRONG AND SINCE PIRATES ARE THE MOST IMMORAL PEOPLE ON EARTH IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE AND WRONG. Stay classy. Come back with something substantial please. I got a poll of thousands of people, people all throughout the thread backing me up saying they buy games they enjoy all the time and piracy has directly caused sales for them and so forth. Is Piracy morally wrong? Sure. I don't doubt that for a second. Is it legally or fiscally wrong? Not at all. In fact, everything is pointing that piracy directly helps the industry more than it hurts. Look a few pages back if you actually read the thread and you would see that government study, again, backing me up. You do know what response bias is, right? It's like going to colleges and asking students if they smoke marijuana. You see examples of this every day. If you spent any amount of time in Bitgamer and in the piracy community, as I said multiple times -- it would only reaffirm those statistics. How do you know people actually buy games when they claim to? So your argument is that people are lying (for no reason) that they are buying games? Both on a non-consequential poll, and thousands of people on forums and comment postings? There's a conspiracy out there to actually convince people we are buying games? There's a time to stop posting. This is about that time for you. I got actual people backing my points up and you got theoretical situations of a giant conspiracy against everyone. You probably should stop posting about statistics, actually. I support having LAN and agree that piracy is a stupid reason to keep it out, but this really is a disgrace to legitimate statistics >.>
I wasn't using it as a legitimate statistic -- I was using it to reaffirm myself and everyone in this thread saying they buy games they pirate and the community being the majority in saying they buy games they pirate.
Sure, it may not be 100% accurate -- I'm not saying it is. But come on, I make an entire post to make a point and you nit pick out one single part of it to simply re-enforce my point and explode it into something much bigger than it was meant to be.
Basically, quit nitpicking bro.
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EPT
