... try to improve but don't stress yourself. (989)
65%
... train hard to improve. (303)
20%
... play games for fun. (224)
15%
1516 total votes
Your vote: You...
(Vote): ... play games for fun. (Vote): ... train hard to improve. (Vote): ... try to improve but don't stress yourself.
Poll: The best way to win is...
Every win is good, how you do it doesn't matter. (650)
45%
... outmacroing your enemy hard. (451)
31%
... outsmarting your enemy. (291)
20%
... crush him in a devastating attack. (44)
3%
1436 total votes
Your vote: The best way to win is...
(Vote): ... outmacroing your enemy hard. (Vote): ... crush him in a devastating attack. (Vote): ... outsmarting your enemy. (Vote): Every win is good, how you do it doesn't matter.
Poll: Do you play more Ladder or Custom games?
Ladder (1091)
75%
Custom (360)
25%
1451 total votes
Your vote: Do you play more Ladder or Custom games?
Play as toss, hardest is pvz, in diamond, 150-200 apm, haven't played BW, <4 hours sadly, try to improve but don't stress myself, every win is good, more ladder than custom, and to become the best player.
On June 17 2011 03:42 ampson wrote: Lol, evidently nobody on TL wins ZvP ever, on either side.
Zvp is a pain for both. Zergs don't feel comfortable letting the toss get the deathball but don't feel like they are ready for it. Toss is nervous as they rely on the deathball and are afraid to try to stop the 3rd as when they move out they can be countered easy. Actually as a heads up for other toss players, until diamond almost no zerg would send in their lings as soon as I left my base, just sayin.
On June 17 2011 03:43 -swordguy wrote: Might as well post what I chose:+ Show Spoiler +
Play as toss, hardest is pvz, in diamond, 150-200 apm, haven't played BW, <4 hours sadly, try to improve but don't stress myself, every win is good, more ladder than custom, and to become the best player.
how do you have 150-200 APM and still in diamond? do you spam a lot?
On June 17 2011 03:42 ampson wrote: Lol, evidently nobody on TL wins ZvP ever, on either side.
Zvp is a pain for both. Zergs don't feel comfortable letting the toss get the deathball but don't feel like they are ready for it. Toss is nervous as they rely on the deathball and are afraid to try to stop the 3rd as when they move out they can be countered easy. Actually as a heads up for other toss players, until diamond almost no zerg would send in their lings as soon as I left my base, just sayin.
LOL, i had the same thought about the fear of both races about the other one :D
I (as zerg) would feel veeery comfortable just to a-move my deathball into victory :D
Poll: The question "The best way to win is..." is asking
What is the most satisfying way for you to win? (93)
68%
What is the way that gives you the best chance to win? (20)
15%
at is the most satisfying way for the average player to win? (20)
15%
What is the way that gives the average player the best chance to win? (3)
2%
136 total votes
Your vote: The question "The best way to win is..." is asking
(Vote): What is the way that gives you the best chance to win? (Vote): What is the way that gives the average player the best chance to win? (Vote): What is the most satisfying way for you to win? (Vote): at is the most satisfying way for the average player to win?
Sorry about #4, my copy/paste skills are lacking I guess.
Play toss, hardest PvP In gold 75-100 APM Play BW almost more than sc2 these days <4 hours Try to improve but don't stress myself about it. Every win is good More custom then ladder To become the best player.
OP it would be cool if you put some graphs and such together to illustrate your findings.
1.What's your main race? Zerg 2.For Zergs: What's your hardest match-up? ZvT 3.What league are you in? Diamond 4.What's your average APM? 80~ 5,Have you played SC:BW? for about 8 months, but only ums :S 6.You... train hard to improve 7.The best way to win is... outmacro ^^ 8.How many hours do you play per week? >28 9.Do you play more Ladder or Custom games? Ladder 10.What's your goal? i'd like to some day reach grand masters league, if the option to become pro happens, i'd take it, but unlikely.
Poll: The question "The best way to win is..." is asking
What is the most satisfying way for you to win? (93)
68%
What is the way that gives you the best chance to win? (20)
15%
at is the most satisfying way for the average player to win? (20)
15%
What is the way that gives the average player the best chance to win? (3)
2%
136 total votes
Your vote: The question "The best way to win is..." is asking
(Vote): What is the way that gives you the best chance to win? (Vote): What is the way that gives the average player the best chance to win? (Vote): What is the most satisfying way for you to win? (Vote): at is the most satisfying way for the average player to win?
Sorry about #4, my copy/paste skills are lacking I guess.
umm... what is going on in this post if I might ask?
These results are actually starting to fascinate me. In gold league (huge caveat I know) I have a 70%+ win rate vs Zerg. Meanwhile my PvP is absolutely atrocious. It's interesting to see what people are answering compared to my own experience.
ZvP is difficult. Glad I am not the only one. Even through I am possibly worse on ZvZ but it just doesn't feel good losing to P rather than Z...not sure why. To be honest, I thought losing to Z would feel worse because it means he is a better zerg than I am.
Im happy that to become the best player i can be is winning that poll. The most satisfying way to win is to outsmart your opponent imo. I like the idea of this poll.
main race: Zerg hardest mu: ZvP league: GM avg APM: >250 played BW: yes Hours: 12-16 you: Try to improve but no stress best way to win: outmacro Ladder or Custom: Custom goal: Play for fun
chill question: it is asking ......What is the way that gives me the best change to win!
Yeah this'll actually be a great thread if 1000 people post their stuff. Otherwise it'll be like the what maps do you veto thread and have far too small of a sampling to be accurate.
main raceerg hardest mu: ZvT league: Plat avg APM: 150 played BW: yes (2002) Hours 12-16 you: recently dedicated training hard. best way to win: macro ladder or custom: ladder goal: become best player I can be
I play random (but main terran) at very high masters level. Hardest matchups as all 3 races: ZvZ TvZ PvZ
apm 150+ as terran and zerg, 100 as protoss.
Played bw since release.
Best way to win is by outsmarting with a solid timing attack. Find a time where your opponent is the weakest, and perfect your build to peak at that time, then allin at that time. Most satisfying wins, your opponent rages.
Poll: The question "The best way to win is..." is asking
What is the most satisfying way for you to win? (93)
68%
What is the way that gives you the best chance to win? (20)
15%
at is the most satisfying way for the average player to win? (20)
15%
What is the way that gives the average player the best chance to win? (3)
2%
136 total votes
Your vote: The question "The best way to win is..." is asking
(Vote): What is the way that gives you the best chance to win? (Vote): What is the way that gives the average player the best chance to win? (Vote): What is the most satisfying way for you to win? (Vote): at is the most satisfying way for the average player to win?
Sorry about #4, my copy/paste skills are lacking I guess.
umm... what is going on in this post if I might ask?
The question what is the best way to win was pretty vague and could be interpreted many ways.
Race: Zerg Hardest Mu: ZvP League: Masters Avg APM: 150-200 Played BW: yes Hours: recently 28+ You: schools out so dedicated training hard best way to win: macro( safe consistent style ) ladder or custom: ladder( custom is prefered but ladder is more accessible ) goal: become pro
Best way to win is by challenging yourself. Win any way that will make you a better gamer. This means, for me, I think cheese is silly and a waste of time.
On June 17 2011 08:44 Grapefruit wrote: It really baffles me how little the average TLer plays, not that it's different for me but I thought there were more people who spend more time on SC.
That "time played" poll has less than 400 votes. There are several thousand members of TL. The rest of them are busy playing starcraft
On June 17 2011 08:44 Grapefruit wrote: It really baffles me how little the average TLer plays, not that it's different for me but I thought there were more people who spend more time on SC.
That "time played" poll has less than 400 votes. There are several thousand members of TL. The rest of them are busy playing starcraft
Plus probably half lie, to make themselves look better "Im diamond but i only have time for 2hours a week" etc, in a lot of cases is rubbish
Race: Protoss Hardest Mu: PvZ League: Masters Avg APM: 125-150 Played BW:no Hours: <4 best way to win: macro ladder or custom: custom Try to improve but don't stress
On June 17 2011 09:13 aksfjh wrote: I do find it interesting that there are more match-up participants than there are people answering what race they play. =P
I think that was to be expected. I'm just wondering why not more Toss players chose Terran, seeing as early stim timings and MMM pushes hit really hard.
On June 17 2011 09:13 aksfjh wrote: I do find it interesting that there are more match-up participants than there are people answering what race they play. =P
I think that was to be expected. I'm just wondering why not more Toss players chose Terran, seeing as early stim timings and MMM pushes hit really hard.
They don't hit that hard, if you have a few sentries and a couple upgrades or a collosus or two out even without range you can hold them pretty well.
my option for most satisfying way to win is not listed... it's when my opponent doesn't lose because he is stupid. this still happens allot in diamond but then I also lose because of that often :S
On June 17 2011 22:44 Zerum wrote: my option for most satisfying way to win is not listed... it's when my opponent doesn't lose because he is stupid. this still happens allot in diamond but then I also lose because of that often :S
Don't we all.
It's quite rare that both players execute they're plan to the letter and one barely comes out on top.
I did like how the Terran/Protoss both generally feel that Zerg are the hardest race to play. I'm a random player, and I generally agree that I find Zerg the hardest to face, across the board.
Then again, statistically my worse match-up is a mirror match-up. Guess that comes with the territory because I try to play all 3 races as opposed to understanding a single race fully.
This poll kinda helps explain the feeling that there aren't many Terrans outside of GSL. I mean, if you look around at discussion threads, featured streams, strategy threads, etc., you rarely come across Terrans on TL. I remember doing a tally a few weeks ago on featured threads, and Protoss and Zerg each have 5-10 more featured streamers than Terran.
On June 17 2011 23:07 Hassybaby wrote: That's a lot of Diamond and Master league players
I did like how the Terran/Protoss both generally feel that Zerg are the hardest race to play. I'm a random player, and I generally agree that I find Zerg the hardest to face, across the board.
Then again, statistically my worse match-up is a mirror match-up. Guess that comes with the territory because I try to play all 3 races as opposed to understanding a single race fully.
I've seen this logic before regarding randoms. Having played 2k games as random, one of my best MUs is PvP, I'm pretty good at ZvZ, and decent at TvT. Why do people claim that mirror MUs should be more difficult for random players?
Regarding the polls, I play to get better and I sometimes stress about it. But I only have so much time to play as work, gf, etc. are important to me. I didn't feel that that question covered my approach to the game.
On June 17 2011 23:07 Hassybaby wrote: That's a lot of Diamond and Master league players
I did like how the Terran/Protoss both generally feel that Zerg are the hardest race to play. I'm a random player, and I generally agree that I find Zerg the hardest to face, across the board.
Then again, statistically my worse match-up is a mirror match-up. Guess that comes with the territory because I try to play all 3 races as opposed to understanding a single race fully.
I've seen this logic before regarding randoms. Having played 2k games as random, one of my best MUs is PvP, I'm pretty good at ZvZ, and decent at TvT. Why do people claim that mirror MUs should be more difficult for random players?
I'm random as well. I don't have any problems with mirror matchups - they're usually my strongest (except TvT). However, I have huge problems with playing against Terrans. I find their capabilities to hold positions (siege tanks, turrets, marines) ridiculous. The fact that all Terran units are incredibly cost effective doesn't help my frustration against Terrans.
For me ZvP creates the most frustrating and helpless moments, and feels like there are so many different ways to lose. This of course is due to it being my worst matchup.
I'm actually surprised how few Zergs seem to list their worst MU as ZvT. I feel like in ZvT it's just so difficult to secure an advantage. MULEs negate a lot of harassment damage, marines are super powerful and cost efficient, drops are devastating, blue flame roasts a mineral line in seconds, etc. Combined with the fact that T has the most diverse, effective builds and you have a difficult task ahead of you as a Zerg player IMO.
At least against 'Toss and Zerg I feel like I can tell when I'm ahead or behind and can tell exactly why I lost a certain game, etc. Against Terran it's just an uphill battle fighting against a superior economy, superior defense, and hyper effective units.
If you voted ZvP or ZvZ as your worst MU, what about ZvT makes you feel more comfortable than either of those two?
Race: Protoss Worst Matchup: P v Z League: Diamond APM: Usually 150-200, if I'm spamming lots and concentrating it'll be in 200-250 SC:BW? Yes, but not online (apart from FMP) Hours per Week: Usually 4-8, in the holidays a lot more. Improving: I try but don't stress too much Best Way to Win: Any way is good, but I rage when I get cheesed : ( Ladder of Custom? Custom Goals? I'd like to reach GM but Masters would do.
main race: Terran hardest mu: TvZ league: Diamond avg APM: 75-100 played BW: no Hours: 4-8 you: Try to improve but not stress best way to win: outsmart Ladder or Custom: Custom goal: to become the best player i can be
Random (thus responding all race matchups) high master As terran: protoss. As zerg: protoss As protoss: zerg APM 150-200 (130-150ish sc2apm, aka 170-210ish real) SCBW: yes >28h outmacroing opponent more ladder than custom only play for fun, because I've come to conclusion there's no way to come at top as random, and game gets boring when picking race for me.
It's pretty easy to guess Z/P have hardest time with their counterparts, since vs T it's just map dependant issues. T is imba in close, and easier than Z/P in far pos. What I'm surprised is how terrans consider zerg harder than toss. I've heard this from few fellow GM players too who play terran. Maybe it's just me not getting tvp, since it's the only matchup out of 9 that is around 40%, all rest between 45-55%.
Also shows how majority of TLrs are pretty casual. Around 50% playing game less than hour per day, meaning it's not necessarily the most timeconsuming hobby for most.
I personally like the question about the best way to win a match as it serves no real purpose in my opinion, heavily depending on the actual goal one might be driven by. If someone cares much about his/her position on the ladder, cheesing will be the answer; on the other hand, if someone wants to win tournaments and have some idea about what it takes to do so, the attention is paid elsewhere.
Anyway, PvZ seems to be in a state of eternal stalemate at the moment.
On June 17 2011 03:43 -swordguy wrote: Might as well post what I chose:+ Show Spoiler +
Play as toss, hardest is pvz, in diamond, 150-200 apm, haven't played BW, <4 hours sadly, try to improve but don't stress myself, every win is good, more ladder than custom, and to become the best player.
how do you have 150-200 APM and still in diamond? do you spam a lot?
he plays <4hrs a week and could just lose a lot to allins
edit: adding my post for answers Protoss hardest PvT earlygame (those allins >.<) PvZ mid/lategame Masters ~280-360apm (depending on a few factors such as length of game and how much i have to micro) I played SC:BW for years reaching C with P C- with Z and D+ with T (T was hard mechanically lol) I train hard to improve I love to outmacro my opponents and just crush them through having a greater army :D I play around 16-20hrs a week (not enough time or energy to do more T_T) mostly ladder but i do a few customs I want to be the best most competetive player I can be, wether that leads me to being a pro/gm or just a high masters player or somewhere else, time will tell
Play Zerg Hardest MU: Protoss Masters APM: 150-200 Played SC:BW against computers when I was like 7 y/o. So I picked "No." Play 4-8 hours per week. Try to improve, but don't stress myself. "... outmacroing your enemy hard" I play more Ladder than Custom My goal is to be the best that I can.
main race: Terran hardest mu: TvZ league: Master avg APM: ~170 played BW: Yes, but not online Hours: 18h + you: try to improve but don't stress yourself, ( work ) best way to win: outsmart Ladder or Custom: ladder goal: to become the best player i can be
Hell, this is a test of intelligence and I obviously failed! This is so difficult! I can work in quantum field theory, but no, I can't get this right...
So please, imagine on less click on "as a zerg -> terran", as I am definitely not a Zerg
1.What's your main race? Zerg 2.For Zergs: What's your hardest match-up? ZvZ 3.What league are you in? Masters 4.What's your average APM? 150+ 5,Have you played SC:BW? Money maps!! 6.You... train hard to improve 7.The best way to win is... outmacro 8.How many hours do you play per week? 8-12 hours a week 9.Do you play more Ladder or Custom games? Ladder 10.What's your goal? Best player I can be
Race: Zerg. Hardest MU: ZvP League: Masters APM:200~250 I have played BW Hours: <4 (I haven't laddered in 9 weeks) I used to train hard to improve, now its just for fun Best way to win, is to barely outplay my opponent I have more ladder games than customs Goal: To become the best player I can.
I feel like anyone who has played BW generally has higher apm.
On July 07 2011 06:09 travis wrote: I love how when the question is for people who play a specific race, way more people vote than claimed a specific race in the initial poll.
Some people, like me, play multiple races. Edit: But, they only have one main race.
I urge people not to draw any conclusions from this data. While it is nice to know the ins and outs of TL patrons, please remember that statistics can be soooooooo misleading. For example, currently the least played race is Terran (not including Random)-- don't say something like "Terran is the weakest race" -- The sample taken here is not necessarily indicative of the whole. Another example: TL can't say now "64% of our patrons are in Diamond Level or above" -- doesn't it make sense that the lower level players are less likely to read TL threads on a regular basis? Therefore, it would make more sense for TL to say "64% of our dedicated patrons are in Diamond Level or above"
I wonder how many people lied in this poll just to try to make their own personal point. (I bet a crap load did... and no I did not, but I play random so it'd be a bit difficult)
On July 07 2011 06:14 mbr2321 wrote: Therefore, it would make more sense for TL to say "64% of our dedicated patrons are in Diamond Level or above"
Not even that. If you consider yourself high ranked, you'll click that vote button with a much bigger chance than if you're in bronze even if you actually read the thread.
On July 07 2011 06:35 galtdunn wrote: I find it interesting that it's been 2 hours since this post has been made and there have already been 42 "grandmasters" (assuming people are telling the truth) who have been on TL. What are there like 1000 GM in the world? (5 servers? NA, EU, KR, SEA, TAI?) And I assume KR, SEA, and TAI (I hope i'm not being retarded, I think Taiwan has its own server) players don't go on TL anywhere near as much.
I'm a platinum Zerg, hardest is ZvT, APM is 100-125, have played the BW campaign but that was about it, I play 8-12 hours a week, try to improve but don't stress myself (as I lack the time to actually go hardcore), the best win is to outmacro hard, the most satisfying to outsmart someone, more ladder than custom (actually almost exclusively), to eventually reach Masters.
On July 07 2011 06:14 mbr2321 wrote: I urge people not to draw any conclusions from this data. While it is nice to know the ins and outs of TL patrons, please remember that statistics can be soooooooo misleading. For example, currently the least played race is Terran (not including Random)-- don't say something like "Terran is the weakest race" -- The sample taken here is not necessarily indicative of the whole. Another example: TL can't say now "64% of our patrons are in Diamond Level or above" -- doesn't it make sense that the lower level players are less likely to read TL threads on a regular basis? Therefore, it would make more sense for TL to say "64% of our dedicated patrons are in Diamond Level or above"
My main conclusion was the massive anti-Terran bias on TL has driven away most Terran players from the site.
Zergs' hardest matchup? Protoss. Protosess' hardest matchup? Zerg. That is indeed quite funny
But seriously, I thnik it shows that PvZ is a becoming very interesting matchup, not as one-dimensional as it used to be and both sides are finding out, how involved it is.
EPT
erg
