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On June 15 2011 08:13 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 03:58 xza wrote:On June 15 2011 03:56 Maliris wrote:On June 15 2011 03:55 zeenix1 wrote:On June 15 2011 03:53 Maliris wrote:On June 15 2011 03:46 oxxo wrote:On June 15 2011 03:42 Karakaxe wrote:On June 15 2011 03:19 antelope591 wrote:On June 15 2011 03:12 Karakaxe wrote:On June 15 2011 03:09 rysecake wrote:
[quote]
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament. If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic. Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on... And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals. It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit. What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better. nope. they got stomped in TSL3. TSL3 was online, which ends that argument. No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping. try it. ps: TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag  everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL. MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil* Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss. If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
I'm an Idra fan, but even if he tried I doubt he'd have taken 3rd, much less easily taken it. If MMA would've lost the first game, it would only be due to blowing his own expansion up, otherwise he was way ahead. His heavy drop marine-tank style is suited perfectly against Idra's, I don't see him beating it in his current state.
If you were referring to his MC games though, don't know. Even with the 2-0 lead that was up in the air.
Anyway, when we talk about Korea vs foreigners (the training / why they're good, not the races), Idra really belongs in the Korea camp. He's as good as he is because he trained there for freggin 3 years.
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I honestly don't think koreans are as far ahead as most people think, and I most definitely think that top foreigners can throw down with top Koreans any day. Koreans would probably overall have a fairly good record, but it wouldn't be one sided.
It's not BW.
Also there are alot of good foreigners at these tournaments that don't show up. Where's Dimaga for instance? His ZvZ especially is friggin godly.
I still jizz just when I think of when I watched him maul Nestea, the previously, in ZVZ, undefeated champion of GSL. He hadn't even dropped a single game.
Look at Thorzain vs MC in the TSL. To me that was really close, and I highly doubt any of them suffered badly from the lag considering the stellar play shown from both sides.
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Didn't Nestea and MVP say they wanted to do foreign stuff in those Artosis interviews? Fly them out that would be sick lol
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6040 Posts
Damn, I was looking forward to seeing MKP tear up DH Summer.
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Americans have finally given up on the notion that foreigners and koreans are near equal, why can't Euros?
Oh well, they'll change their tune once Dreamhack is done and over with.
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On June 15 2011 08:37 chenchen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 08:23 Skwid1g wrote:On June 15 2011 08:18 ch33psh33p wrote:On June 15 2011 08:13 Skwid1g wrote:On June 15 2011 03:58 xza wrote:On June 15 2011 03:56 Maliris wrote:On June 15 2011 03:55 zeenix1 wrote:On June 15 2011 03:53 Maliris wrote:On June 15 2011 03:46 oxxo wrote:On June 15 2011 03:42 Karakaxe wrote:
[quote]
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit. What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better. nope. they got stomped in TSL3. TSL3 was online, which ends that argument. No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping. try it. ps: TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL. MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil* Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss. If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure. This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close. The few games I mentioned? What? People like you honestly baffle me, Idra could win a GSL and you would cry about how Koreans are still so much better with no real evidence. Most of the games Idra lost during that tournament (to Koreans) were games he was winning, but just decided to leave because he is Idra. He was ahead vs. MMA and completely stomped MC. Naniwa lost because he /danced and then because of a BO loss, not because he got outplayed. Losira almost lost to iNcontrol, who I wouldn't label as the strongest foreigner (no offense to him) at MLG. Jinro and Idra both performed well in the GSL, even though Idra was a lot worse back then. World Championship had the foreigners lose by only 1 game against a team with Nestea, MC, MvP, etc. on it, and the foreign team was quite weak in all honesty. You'll just constantly make excuses for the Koreans so this is sort of a waste of time, but your logic isn't sound in any way. You're taking 1 event where Koreans BARELY managed to take 1/2/3 and then say "KOREANS ARE SO MUCH BETTER LOLOL." With that being said, the difference between foreigners and Koreans won't remain small for long, as I can almost guarantee that the top Koreans are practicing much harder than top foreigners. Koreans have taken 1/2/3 at soooo many events with Koreans and foreigners. MLG, GSL World Championship, all those FXO tournaments. MC even took Starswar which was stacked with top foreigner, Korean and Chinese players. Whoever denies that Koreans are well ahead of foreigners in SC2 is greatly deluded.
Like I said, MLG was almost completely because of Idra raging and losing it for himself, if you honestly saw a huge difference in skill between him and MC/Losira/July then I don't know what to say. The same can be said for
The world championship lacked a LOT of the top foreigners and had a huge number of good Koreans. I mean, you're actually using a tournament that lacked Naniwa, Idra, Thorzain, etc. as grounds for saying Koreans > foreigners? Like, really?
And starswar had Nestea knocked out in the first round by someone most have never heard of, it also had another foreigner in the finals instead of Nestea, Lyn, Genius, and the rest of the Koreans.
Like I said, I won't say that foreigners are completely equal to top Koreans (although I think Idra could be if he didn't ragequit every time he lost a Zergling) it is delusional to say that there is a huge skill gap when we're still seeing 2x GSL winners knocked out by non-top foreigners.
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Why is it that all threads somehow degenerate into pointless debate on who's better??? Does it really matter? I for 1 am just going to enjoy the high quality play that we'll obviously be seeing, regardless of who ultimately wins....
I mean, Koreans may be ahead today, tmr it may be some European, some later time in the future the game might be dominated by the Chinese for all we know...There is always some1 better out there, more so in SC2 since its such a global game...
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Wait, when have we seen 2x gsl winners knocked out by non-top foreigners? Mc..mvp..nestea. Which of these 3 were knocked out by an average foreigner in any lan?
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I think there surely is some place elsewhere you could discuss this really interesting korean scene vs. foreigner scene stuff ?
Anyways quiet unfortunate I'm still more interested in possible replacements than this pointless discussion.
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On June 15 2011 08:49 Whoranzone wrote:
I think there surely is some place elsewhere you could discuss this really interesting korean scene vs. foreigner scene stuff ?
Anyways quiet unfortunate I'm still more interested in possible replacements than this pointless discussion.
Not really anything to discuss. It's basically rational people vs delusional potheads. However big or small the gap is, there is one that exists for sure.
On topic...I want mvp and nestea to be sent out =)
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And when MC bomber, julyzerg get beat in Dreamhack by some of the newest European talant all these elitist korean asslickers gonan have alot of excuses they had lag there computers was hacked they had jetlaged you cant win vs these people.
User was warned for this post
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On June 15 2011 08:44 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 08:37 chenchen wrote:On June 15 2011 08:23 Skwid1g wrote:On June 15 2011 08:18 ch33psh33p wrote:On June 15 2011 08:13 Skwid1g wrote:On June 15 2011 03:58 xza wrote:On June 15 2011 03:56 Maliris wrote:On June 15 2011 03:55 zeenix1 wrote:On June 15 2011 03:53 Maliris wrote:On June 15 2011 03:46 oxxo wrote:
[quote]
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better. nope. they got stomped in TSL3. TSL3 was online, which ends that argument. No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping. try it. ps: TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL. MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil* Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss. If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure. This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close. The few games I mentioned? What? People like you honestly baffle me, Idra could win a GSL and you would cry about how Koreans are still so much better with no real evidence. Most of the games Idra lost during that tournament (to Koreans) were games he was winning, but just decided to leave because he is Idra. He was ahead vs. MMA and completely stomped MC. Naniwa lost because he /danced and then because of a BO loss, not because he got outplayed. Losira almost lost to iNcontrol, who I wouldn't label as the strongest foreigner (no offense to him) at MLG. Jinro and Idra both performed well in the GSL, even though Idra was a lot worse back then. World Championship had the foreigners lose by only 1 game against a team with Nestea, MC, MvP, etc. on it, and the foreign team was quite weak in all honesty. You'll just constantly make excuses for the Koreans so this is sort of a waste of time, but your logic isn't sound in any way. You're taking 1 event where Koreans BARELY managed to take 1/2/3 and then say "KOREANS ARE SO MUCH BETTER LOLOL." With that being said, the difference between foreigners and Koreans won't remain small for long, as I can almost guarantee that the top Koreans are practicing much harder than top foreigners. Koreans have taken 1/2/3 at soooo many events with Koreans and foreigners. MLG, GSL World Championship, all those FXO tournaments. MC even took Starswar which was stacked with top foreigner, Korean and Chinese players. Whoever denies that Koreans are well ahead of foreigners in SC2 is greatly deluded. Like I said, MLG was almost completely because of Idra raging and losing it for himself, if you honestly saw a huge difference in skill between him and MC/Losira/July then I don't know what to say. The same can be said for The world championship lacked a LOT of the top foreigners and had a huge number of good Koreans. I mean, you're actually using a tournament that lacked Naniwa, Idra, Thorzain, etc. as grounds for saying Koreans > foreigners? Like, really? And starswar had Nestea knocked out in the first round by someone most have never heard of, it also had another foreigner in the finals instead of Nestea, Lyn, Genius, and the rest of the Koreans. Like I said, I won't say that foreigners are completely equal to top Koreans (although I think Idra could be if he didn't ragequit every time he lost a Zergling) it is delusional to say that there is a huge skill gap when we're still seeing 2x GSL winners knocked out by non-top foreigners. keeping your cool in the middle of a match with a lot of money on the line is a skill in and of itself
idra consistently cracks under pressure and i don't see that changing any time soon
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On June 15 2011 08:44 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 08:37 chenchen wrote:On June 15 2011 08:23 Skwid1g wrote:On June 15 2011 08:18 ch33psh33p wrote:On June 15 2011 08:13 Skwid1g wrote:On June 15 2011 03:58 xza wrote:On June 15 2011 03:56 Maliris wrote:On June 15 2011 03:55 zeenix1 wrote:On June 15 2011 03:53 Maliris wrote:On June 15 2011 03:46 oxxo wrote:
[quote]
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better. nope. they got stomped in TSL3. TSL3 was online, which ends that argument. No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping. try it. ps: TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL. MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil* Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss. If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure. This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close. The few games I mentioned? What? People like you honestly baffle me, Idra could win a GSL and you would cry about how Koreans are still so much better with no real evidence. Most of the games Idra lost during that tournament (to Koreans) were games he was winning, but just decided to leave because he is Idra. He was ahead vs. MMA and completely stomped MC. Naniwa lost because he /danced and then because of a BO loss, not because he got outplayed. Losira almost lost to iNcontrol, who I wouldn't label as the strongest foreigner (no offense to him) at MLG. Jinro and Idra both performed well in the GSL, even though Idra was a lot worse back then. World Championship had the foreigners lose by only 1 game against a team with Nestea, MC, MvP, etc. on it, and the foreign team was quite weak in all honesty. You'll just constantly make excuses for the Koreans so this is sort of a waste of time, but your logic isn't sound in any way. You're taking 1 event where Koreans BARELY managed to take 1/2/3 and then say "KOREANS ARE SO MUCH BETTER LOLOL." With that being said, the difference between foreigners and Koreans won't remain small for long, as I can almost guarantee that the top Koreans are practicing much harder than top foreigners. Koreans have taken 1/2/3 at soooo many events with Koreans and foreigners. MLG, GSL World Championship, all those FXO tournaments. MC even took Starswar which was stacked with top foreigner, Korean and Chinese players. Whoever denies that Koreans are well ahead of foreigners in SC2 is greatly deluded. Like I said, MLG was almost completely because of Idra raging and losing it for himself, if you honestly saw a huge difference in skill between him and MC/Losira/July then I don't know what to say. The same can be said for The world championship lacked a LOT of the top foreigners and had a huge number of good Koreans. I mean, you're actually using a tournament that lacked Naniwa, Idra, Thorzain, etc. as grounds for saying Koreans > foreigners? Like, really? And starswar had Nestea knocked out in the first round by someone most have never heard of, it also had another foreigner in the finals instead of Nestea, Lyn, Genius, and the rest of the Koreans. Like I said, I won't say that foreigners are completely equal to top Koreans (although I think Idra could be if he didn't ragequit every time he lost a Zergling) it is delusional to say that there is a huge skill gap when we're still seeing 2x GSL winners knocked out by non-top foreigners.
Starswar had MC and Lovecd in the finals.
Chinese don't count as foreigners.
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Sad that NaDa and MKP won't be in DH. Can they just invite other Koreans to take their place? MVP, Nestea, MMA or even Boxer. 
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Nooooo! I wanted to see NaDa attend
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On June 15 2011 09:02 Nerdslayer wrote:
And when MC bomber, julyzerg get beat in Dreamhack by some of the newest European talant all these elitist korean asslickers gonan have alot of excuses they had lag there computers was hacked they had jetlaged you cant win vs these people.
Cant win vs these people? Dude look in the mirror. You make it sound like koreans dont win anything and ppl make excuses despite that. Koreans have won most of the to
urneys thats a fact. Not opinion. You talk like some random euro winning is a done deal and you call ppl wih a rational opinion based on facts asslickers.
Nobody is saying a non korean cant win. Its ppl like you just trying to discredit koreans and make excuses for non koreans
Your hate for koreans is so transparent just come out and admit it
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Wowwww I really wanted to see MKP...
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On June 15 2011 08:13 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 03:58 xza wrote:On June 15 2011 03:56 Maliris wrote:On June 15 2011 03:55 zeenix1 wrote:On June 15 2011 03:53 Maliris wrote:On June 15 2011 03:46 oxxo wrote:On June 15 2011 03:42 Karakaxe wrote:On June 15 2011 03:19 antelope591 wrote:On June 15 2011 03:12 Karakaxe wrote:On June 15 2011 03:09 rysecake wrote:
[quote]
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament. If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic. Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on... And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals. It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit. What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better. nope. they got stomped in TSL3. TSL3 was online, which ends that argument. No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping. try it. ps: TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL. MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil* Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss. If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
IdrA would have lost that game if MMA hadn't destroyed his own command center, that is what people seem to be forgetting completely. IdrA would have won due to his opponent making a misclick, not because of his own personal skill. He left because he thought that MMA hadn't destroyed it, hence if MMA hadn't made that mistake he WOULD have won. Hence MMA IS superior, just because IdrA could've taken the game doesn't mean he played better than MMA in any way.
Naniwa had lost either way, the dark shrine was finished. There was no way to take it down before DTs were warped in and even if you unpower the dark shrine you can still make DTs.
ANYWAY
excited for Dreamhack
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I like how the people that are saying the foreigners are on par with the Koreans keeps bringing up the same few examples where the Foreigners beat Korean or random online tournament where Koreans are playing with lag/time disadvantages.
Seriously, if you were to bring the top 10 Korean right now and have them play 100 Bo5's against the top 10 Foreigners, at this very moment, how many of you would actually dare to come out and have the confidence to say that they would go 50/50?
And yea, Stage experience, ability to keep your head cool and not tilt, etc, is also a big factor that alot of these pro-foreigner fans never seem to consider. Sure, these traits make the Koreans "machine" and less interesting to watch from viewer's point of view, but it is also one of the reasons that makes the Koreans better.
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but NaDa
BoxeR incoming 
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EPT
