Will be a great tournament. Hopefully we can finally get an epic 1v1 final since six out of the seven GSL finals have been duds. Only NesTea/MarineKing was worthy of a Grand Final.
Anyway this will be great, I hope there will be either a seed, or a drawing ceremony. I don't exactly want MKP/MVP/Nestea/MC/Bomber to meet each other in ro64.
On May 17 2011 23:31 MrCon wrote: Anyway this will be great, I hope there will be either a seed, or a drawing ceremony. I don't exactly want MKP/MVP/Nestea/MC/Bomber to meet each other in ro64.
On May 17 2011 23:31 MrCon wrote: Anyway this will be great, I hope there will be either a seed, or a drawing ceremony. I don't exactly want MKP/MVP/Nestea/MC/Bomber to meet each other in ro64.
Top 4 will probably be in different brackets
Damn, Bomber will get sniped or snipe one of the top4...
On May 17 2011 23:31 MrCon wrote: Anyway this will be great, I hope there will be either a seed, or a drawing ceremony. I don't exactly want MKP/MVP/Nestea/MC/Bomber to meet each other in ro64.
On May 18 2011 00:17 busbarn wrote: Missing out on MLG, DH and maybe homestory cup only to have a slight chance of beating one or two koreans is probably not worth it
I believe the first place prize for GSL supertournament is more than the sum of the total prize pools of those other three tournaments. Anyone with a chance of winning should compete in the GSL tourney imo...
On May 18 2011 00:17 busbarn wrote: Missing out on MLG, DH and maybe homestory cup only to have a slight chance of beating one or two koreans is probably not worth it
I believe the first place prize for GSL supertournament is more than the sum of the total prize pools of those other three tournaments. Anyone with a chance of winning should compete in the GSL tourney imo...
Lets not beat around the bush here, the foreigners that declined dont have the skill necessary to make it deep into the tournament.
Some might make it to ro32 but thats a pittance compared to potential money they can make in NA and EU.
I just wish people would stop asking why foreigners wont participate in GSL ffs, the answer is clear as day.
If I had to choose between going to this tournament, flying all the way out to Korea (very expensive!!) to lose in the first round, or to go to MLG and maybe make it considerably deeper with a real chance to take home some money, you're damn straight I'm going to Columbus rather than Seoul.
Do I wish that first/second round loss wasn't such a foregone conclusion? I do. Sadly it is for most top foreigners, even the ones they invited.
I think Sen declined because he had school. He was interested at first.
Not sure why Loner declined.
The rest of the foreigners declined because they think it's not worth the plane ticket there. Remember losing in the first round nets you a grand total of $0.
Also it's irrelevant to compare foreigners choosing MLG over GSL to MMA, Losira, Bomber and Moon because their travel and accommodation are paid by MLG. Of course it might have been better to go to GSL to compete than MLG, but it's up to the players to decide. Personally I think they prefer the Western English speaking environment and less time spent for MLG than Korea.
Morrow, TT1, moonglade, whitera, Dimaga, Idra and Ret declined.
We could have 9 foreigners there. But we don't, because:
1 - Long ass tournament;
2 - It only means something if you win the whole thing, which means if they all went only 1 (if one) would come with enough money to make it worthwhile;
3 - Too many foreigner tournaments: MLG, DreamHack, NASL and possibly others they would have a very hard time competing.
And there are more, like, White-RA has a family he would have to leave for one month, and a Job he can't just throw away. And many players have Jobs/Families/School.
On May 18 2011 00:17 busbarn wrote: Missing out on MLG, DH and maybe homestory cup only to have a slight chance of beating one or two koreans is probably not worth it
I believe the first place prize for GSL supertournament is more than the sum of the total prize pools of those other three tournaments. Anyone with a chance of winning should compete in the GSL tourney imo...
I wonder if the brackets are going to be determined by GSL points. If so we'd have awesome first round matchups and plenty of potential for upsets. I pity the fool who has to face bomber in the first round.
White-Ra declined because he had to meet with his sponsors in Taiwan or something like that. I believe that's what he said when someone asked him when he was streaming a few days ago, it could've been a few weeks ago as well.
That sucks there are only two foreigners, and they're essentially "Korean" foreigners.
On May 18 2011 00:48 Jotoco wrote: Morrow, TT1, moonglade, whitera, Dimaga, Idra and Ret declined.
We could have 9 foreigners there. But we don't, because:
1 - Long ass tournament;
2 - It only means something if you win the whole thing, which means if they all went only 1 (if one) would come with enough money to make it worthwhile;
3 - Too many foreigner tournaments: MLG, DreamHack, NASL and possibly others they would have a very hard time competing.
And there are more, like, White-RA has a family he would have to leave for one month, and a Job he can't just throw away. And many players have Jobs/Families/School.
exactly, its just sad sc2 is all about money. can't have them at fault for it though.
On May 18 2011 00:17 busbarn wrote: Missing out on MLG, DH and maybe homestory cup only to have a slight chance of beating one or two koreans is probably not worth it
I believe the first place prize for GSL supertournament is more than the sum of the total prize pools of those other three tournaments. Anyone with a chance of winning should compete in the GSL tourney imo...
Of course travel expenses are an issue but team sponsors can cover that. It also could be possible that GOM would pay for plane tickets since that's what they did for the world championship tournament. I dunno if GOM would do that again.
I'm so sad that many foreigners declined... What's up with them? Come on! This Super Tournament is arguably the most competitive tournament to date. Winning this tournament is bigger than winning any other one, including TSL in my opinion.
Should be a super awesome tournament, looking forward to it And players that are shying away from a tournament because it is so competitive are players that I don't miss in it. Go Jinro!
Hm, don't really see the money thing for european players. The cost for flying to korea/US must be pretty similar? (not sure). Winning 1 series in the super tournament gives you $930 which is ~equal to 5th place columbus ($1000). Winning 3 series gives you $4650 which is nearly the same as first place MLG. This is assuming they could live in the GOM house for free of course.
On May 18 2011 01:38 Bergys wrote: Hm, don't really see the money thing for european players. The cost for flying to korea/US must be pretty similar? (not sure). Winning 1 series in the super tournament gives you $930 which is ~equal to 5th place columbus ($1000). Winning 3 series gives you $4650 which is nearly the same as first place MLG. This is assuming they could live in the GOM house for free of course.
They also have to spend a month in Korea. Which means they can't participate in any of the million online cups and they will be negatively impacted in NASL, IPL2 and whatever other tournaments are around.
92000$ is more than getting first place in like every foreign tourney for one year...for a months tourney its prolly like 5x more what they could make winning every lan and online tourney in that period. If foreigners declined its cause they obv dont think they have a chance of winning or making it far. Otherwise why pass up a year's salary? Esp on a sponsored team that can pay for travel. Clearly they dont think they can compete with top koreans at this point.
On May 18 2011 00:17 busbarn wrote: Missing out on MLG, DH and maybe homestory cup only to have a slight chance of beating one or two koreans is probably not worth it
I believe the first place prize for GSL supertournament is more than the sum of the total prize pools of those other three tournaments. Anyone with a chance of winning should compete in the GSL tourney imo...
Lets not beat around the bush here, the foreigners that declined dont have the skill necessary to make it deep into the tournament.
Some might make it to ro32 but thats a pittance compared to potential money they can make in NA and EU.
I just wish people would stop asking why foreigners wont participate in GSL ffs, the answer is clear as day.
Are u saying that Dimaga who actually knocked the sitting GSL champ in GSL WC and he performed like a champ in the World vs korea match dont have a good shot at taking this tour down? I do have to agree that it might not be worth it for most of the players but Dimaga would have a clear shot if he tried, I have no doubts about it.
On May 18 2011 01:38 Bergys wrote: Hm, don't really see the money thing for european players. The cost for flying to korea/US must be pretty similar? (not sure). Winning 1 series in the super tournament gives you $930 which is ~equal to 5th place columbus ($1000). Winning 3 series gives you $4650 which is nearly the same as first place MLG. This is assuming they could live in the GOM house for free of course.
They also have to spend a month in Korea. Which means they can't participate in any of the million online cups and they will be negatively impacted in NASL, IPL2 and whatever other tournaments are around.
I'm assuming they would only need to stay around if they made it deeper into the tournament, so it will not be 1 month unless they win the whole thing.
On May 18 2011 00:17 busbarn wrote: Missing out on MLG, DH and maybe homestory cup only to have a slight chance of beating one or two koreans is probably not worth it
I believe the first place prize for GSL supertournament is more than the sum of the total prize pools of those other three tournaments. Anyone with a chance of winning should compete in the GSL tourney imo...
Lets not beat around the bush here, the foreigners that declined dont have the skill necessary to make it deep into the tournament.
Some might make it to ro32 but thats a pittance compared to potential money they can make in NA and EU.
I just wish people would stop asking why foreigners wont participate in GSL ffs, the answer is clear as day.
Outside maybe 4 koreans atm i wouldn't say anyone has a "good" shot at a deep run. The bigger reason is gom shuts them down for anything else for a month to compete.
I think some of the better players should definitely not have declined like idra/whitera/dimaga. they have a legitimate shot at making it far, and like people have said winning this tournament is more $ then all foreign tournaments combined. just unfortunate, would have liked to see them play, esp. whitera.
On May 18 2011 01:16 blackone wrote: Should be a super awesome tournament, looking forward to it And players that are shying away from a tournament because it is so competitive are players that I don't miss in it. Go Jinro!
They're most likely just staying away because it doesn't make any financial sense.
I don't know why everyone draws such poor conclusions. Commiting to living in a place for a month to see if you have a shot...and lets be honest even amongst the Koreans..everyone has a shot. This game certainly lacks clear winners enough of the times, you can hype players all you want, but "best player in the world" #31094 still ends up dropping games.
Its not just money, its logistics. I can attend several events as well as get back home to relax, practice, or whatever...or I can be stuck in Korea for a month. Frankly, the way GOM sets things up works great domestically for people in Korea, its not a frantic, rushed process. Its longer, more drawn out and its neat, but the way the tournaments have been developing especially during the busy season with all sorts of events happening..its just silly trying to draw other participants in.
There are always international events like WCG, I know GOMtv wants to expand, but they largely need to focus on Korea since its still not more popular than BW there and the west needs to focus on the west and leave "global" events up to people like WCG. Its more practical and its more effective. I'm not saying the league exchange program is a bad idea either, I just simply am implying not to get one's hopes up too high that people from abroad will always wanna play in your tournament.
On May 18 2011 00:26 Reasonable wrote: Dimaga and WhiteRa declined? Cheap bastards. What about representing the motherland?
i think they have convincable reasons not being 'able' to attend
Convincing reason is that they are being cheap. But there is great fame and glory even in participating in Supertournament, more than they can achieve participating in all other events combined. Obviously they won't profit much, but they would considerably expand the fan base and increase their advertising value
Seems like the foreigners feel they are not the same level as the koreans even though the koreans complimented them saying they are on the same level. $90,000 for the winner! It cost just as much to fly to NA for MLG. However many tournaments they miss within that month won't equal to winning this super tournament.
On May 18 2011 02:27 illsick wrote: Seems like the foreigners feel they are not the same level as the koreans even though the koreans complimented them saying they are on the same level. $90,000 for the winner! It cost just as much to fly to NA for MLG. However many tournaments they miss within that month won't equal to winning this super tournament.
Nvm, I misread. No foreigner though has shown yet that they can take out the cream of the crop of Koreans. It would be a waste of money
On May 18 2011 02:27 illsick wrote: Seems like the foreigners feel they are not the same level as the koreans even though the koreans complimented them saying they are on the same level. $90,000 for the winner! It cost just as much to fly to NA for MLG. However many tournaments they miss within that month won't equal to winning this super tournament.
Nvm, I misread. No foreigner though has shown yet that they can take out the cream of the crop of Koreans. It would be a waste of money
I disagree for two reasons. First, even if you ignor the first round knockouts of three GSL champions, Thorzain took down a red hot MC in an epic BO5 in the TSL.
Secondly there's only maybe ten Koreans that I'd say are cream of the crop, chances are you won't be against them in the first round and therefore it probably would be worth it.
There is a three day Gap for MLG, but to attand both you need a day or so to travel. And that dosen't take any time in acount for jetglag etc. So it's all far form convinient to attend both if you makke it to the Ro32 i GSST
I imagine the 4 koreans that attend MLG willl have their Ro32 Matches on the first or last day to give them an extra day for travel to and form MLG. If they make it to Ro32 of course.
Then the Finals are during Dreamhack, but that ofcourse only conflicts for teh two finalists, and if you make it to the finals I'd say that's worth it over dreamhack But something to keep in mind for the Koreans to attend Dreamhack. We might miss two of them with half a weeks notice....
On May 18 2011 02:01 coolcor wrote: So the MLG/GOM exchange is probably doomed since this shows nobody is ever going to go over to Korea for a month.
actually i dont care for foreigners in korea but its nice that there will be koreans at mlg
hope they wont stop the exchange program if no one is going to korea
btw: TheBest and legalmind? omg they wont win a sigle match
The GSL/MLG-exchange includes housing and travel expenses so I think it will be more popular.
But people aren't talking about how expensive it would be to go to Korea for the reason foreigners are not going. They are talking about all the other tournaments they will miss and saying it is better to play in those. It is they same reason Idra left and everyone on SOTG said they would refuse a code A or S spot with expenses paid and thought not many others would accept either.
On May 18 2011 00:24 nYaLa wrote: I can understand why foreigners decline. Outside Korea more tournaments,more money etc.
They could have attended MLG and the super tournament i dont really understand why they declined seems kind of wierd the chance at winning 100k, (bigger than any other tournament they have attended and probably ever will) and as long as they dont get knocked out in the round of 64 they would get at least 2000. The koreans are gonna be at MLG too id say that they have just as good of a chance to win the super tournament as MLG, especially because pretty much none of the players invited are in the championship bracket at MLG most will have to go through the open brackets. As well if yoou make it to the round of 16 you get almost as much as if you win MLG.
Seems pretty wierd to me that they would decline a tournament with such a huge prize pool likely the biggest most prestigious tournament they will ever be invited to compete in.
Id like to hear a response on their reasons if any of them are around it would be interesting to hear why they declined. Im especially suprised about dimaga and sen they have the skill to get far in the tournament. I dont get it =( really dissapointing, also russia/ukraine isnt nearly as far to travel as NA so i think the plane tickets would be considerably cheaper for dimaga white ra, and obviously sen fromm taiwan but he has school someone said.
I dont get all this negativity towards Korea from foreigners recently, they still have the largest most prestigious starcraft 2 tournament in the world with the biggest prize pool. Especially for the super tournament why would you give up the opportunity to play in a 64 player tournament for 100k unless you really think your skill is alot lower than the koreans and you wont get far. if thats the case alot of these pro's arent exactly putting their money where there mouth is as alot of them have stated that korea and foreigners are alot closer than they previously thought. I mean youd have to win 20 regular season MLG's to get as much money as the super tournament is giving out, and whats more likely , for you to win 20 mlg's or one super tournament with 64 players wich is far less players than korea has, as well as the fact that koreans will now be participating in MLG. I probably understand morrow as he is just getting settled in his new pro gaming house, but for TT1 sen dimaga and moonglade i dont really see why.
Has moonglade left korea? i was under the impression he was still there.
i dont understand how jinro and huk get into gsl let alone code s. their matches are pretty much a complete joke and an easy walkover for the competition. i wish we had some real foreign competitors in korea.
On May 18 2011 03:16 stratmatt wrote: i dont understand how jinro and huk get into gsl let alone code s. their matches are pretty much a complete joke and an easy walkover for the competition. i wish we had some real foreign competitors in korea.
I dunno about that did you see huk in the up and down matches, he did really well against MMA who has beaten MC MVP July before hes no slouch thats for sure.
And although jinro has been slumping recently, hes in code a now and hopefully he will beable to show skills. Hes had 2 top 4's in gsl that is nothing to scoff at
GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
On May 18 2011 03:16 stratmatt wrote: i dont understand how jinro and huk get into gsl let alone code s. their matches are pretty much a complete joke and an easy walkover for the competition. i wish we had some real foreign competitors in korea.
not many people thought huk would stay in code s. the whole point of being in korea is to compete and hence learn from the best, which is what they are doing in code a/s and in tournaments like this.
On May 18 2011 02:27 illsick wrote: Seems like the foreigners feel they are not the same level as the koreans even though the koreans complimented them saying they are on the same level. $90,000 for the winner! It cost just as much to fly to NA for MLG. However many tournaments they miss within that month won't equal to winning this super tournament.
90k is more than they will probably make from tournament winning in over a year let alone 2-3 weeks. even if they won MLG dreamhack and NASL (they could attend MLG and NASL and go to this tournament FYI, there will be koreans doing that) they still wouldnt make as much as winning the super tournament.
I really can't say I am surprised by how many Protoss there are. When I think of who the top Korean Protoss are... I really can't think of anyone other than MC and San... maybe AnyPro and Alicia. I wouldn't say Inca is up there... HongUn, Tester and Genius haven't been having results either. For how "overpowered" protoss is always said to be, they sure don't have too many people dominating with them. If you want to debate that then PM me... I'm really not looking to derail the thread, but I just wanted to say my opinion of the race distribution.
On May 18 2011 00:45 namedplayer wrote: I think Naniwa would compete if only he got GSL points. He has decent chance to win this tournament imo.
Recently he got beaten in the nasl by st squirtle (protoss player not even code a) , wouldn't be too confident of naniwa if i were you.
It's a PvP duh... Edit: If this tournament lasted three days like MLG I think many foreign players would go. A month is more like a year in the tournament scene..
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
You gonna blame the players? get real son. The tournament is too long -- this at least they can fix -- the best foreign players have at least 2 or 3 leagues in which they are competing and going to Korea for a month would have disastrous consequences in their play during that time. As for not getting into the korean market the way they wanted, the reason might be more of a blizzard vs kespa issue, but regardless they underestimated the effect of being off live TV.
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
I think it is.
If they made the tournaments last, let's say, 2 weeks. Then it would become a lot better for foreigners to attend it.
I think how long it lasts is the culprit here, and probably expenses, but mostly time.
It's laughable how Huk is #30 when his accomplishments amounted to basically nothing. He simply got auto-seeded into the world championships, for being a foreigner, where he got the majority of his points, 450 pts. Meanwhile, Losira and Bomber won Code A championships and barely received 250 pts for their victories.
It's one thing to encourage diversity by making it easier for players to go to Korea and participate but I'd like to see them at least earn their spots.
Mucho complaining about the large majority of Terran/questioning why more foreigners are not participating from what my rudimentary Korean can take out of it.
On May 18 2011 00:48 Jotoco wrote: Morrow, TT1, moonglade, whitera, Dimaga, Idra and Ret declined.
We could have 9 foreigners there. But we don't, because:
1 - Long ass tournament;
2 - It only means something if you win the whole thing, which means if they all went only 1 (if one) would come with enough money to make it worthwhile;
3 - Too many foreigner tournaments: MLG, DreamHack, NASL and possibly others they would have a very hard time competing.
And there are more, like, White-RA has a family he would have to leave for one month, and a Job he can't just throw away. And many players have Jobs/Families/School.
exactly, its just sad sc2 is all about money. can't have them at fault for it though.
First, don't take this as a personal stab to yourself, I'm just building off your "can't have them at fault for it though" statement.
Realistically, these men have made it their profession. Therefore the money they do receive in order to live on a daily basis is earned through playing Starcraft 2. The amount of money it costs to go to another country, as well as the money spent on living costs while they are there for the sake of this tournament vs the potential money they could receive from the tournament (and their actual likelihood of doing well in said tournament) vs the number of tournaments and the amount of money they could potentially earn elsewhere, it makes sense for everyone to decline minus those that are already in Korea.
On May 18 2011 03:16 stratmatt wrote: i dont understand how jinro and huk get into gsl let alone code s. their matches are pretty much a complete joke and an easy walkover for the competition. i wish we had some real foreign competitors in korea.
I dunno about that did you see huk in the up and down matches, he did really well against MMA who has beaten MC MVP July before hes no slouch thats for sure.
And although jinro has been slumping recently, hes in code a now and hopefully he will beable to show skills. Hes had 2 top 4's in gsl that is nothing to scoff at
You mean how mma failed to all in against huk first game and then huk fourgated back in the second game? Two-allins is a very a good judge of a person's skill.
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
I think it is.
If they made the tournaments last, let's say, 2 weeks. Then it would become a lot better for foreigners to attend it.
I think how long it lasts is the culprit here, and probably expenses, but mostly time.
Well GSL's only last about 3 weeks as is right now, and thats if you make it to the finals otherwise its pretty much a 2 week tournament, gsl may started at the end of april 24th or something like that and ended on what the 12th thats less than 3 weeks, and obviously if your out before than you can leave , and if you make it to the finals obviously its worht it to stay. Everyone keeps saying a month but i dont remember any GSL that lasted a month its usually in between 2-3 weeks. 2 weeks and then a week for the finals.
So i dont really see what your getting at.... especially for this super tournament the money is way higher than any other tournament right now for first to 4th easily. And you would beable to participate in other tournaments (mc going to dreamhack summer, 4 koreans in super tournament going to MLG, and you can still do your NASL stuff, there is 4 foreigners fromm that region (including sen) in the top 10 considering the distribution of regions that is pretty huge, and although lag can have its effects these players are dealing with it just fine it seems especially for a week or 2 and a chance to participate in the super tournament for sure. I mean if you get knocked out quick then your there for a week and its not really a big deal, but the longer you stay there in the tournament the more worth it it is to take a bit of a latency hit and stay in the tournament.
Doesnt seem like a huge deal to me, just a great opportunity
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
You gonna blame the players? get real son. The tournament is too long -- this at least they can fix -- the best foreign players have at least 2 or 3 leagues in which they are competing and going to Korea for a month would have disastrous consequences in their play during that time. As for not getting into the korean market the way they wanted, the reason might be more of a blizzard vs kespa issue, but regardless they underestimated the effect of being off live TV.
And if they make it to code S and do very well, they will be paid very well. It makes sense that the best get paid the best. But yea sure, if you are not able to get to code S it will be a waste of time, I agree. If you really are one of the best, 2-3 months investment into the GSL is well worth it. Regular GSL season winner gets $40,000 and now the Super Tournament gives $90,000 (and prior to that, they held the World Championship between the GSL seasons). The money is there, it's up to the players to try for it.
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
I think it is.
If they made the tournaments last, let's say, 2 weeks. Then it would become a lot better for foreigners to attend it.
I think how long it lasts is the culprit here, and probably expenses, but mostly time.
It's absolutely the time commitment. As others have said, why would you sacrifice so much time to only participate in one tournament that you have such a small chance of winning? Not to mention the fact that anything below Code S pays absolute shit while even the Code S RO32 is a pretty crappy format. There's just no real incentive to go to Korea instead of staying in EU/NA. Pay from the multitude of tournaments ends up being better, especially considering you can still be with family/friends/school work as opposed to paying to fly out and live in a foreign country where you don't know the language and have a lot of other things going against you.
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
I think it is.
If they made the tournaments last, let's say, 2 weeks. Then it would become a lot better for foreigners to attend it.
I think how long it lasts is the culprit here, and probably expenses, but mostly time.
It's absolutely the time commitment. As others have said, why would you sacrifice so much time to only participate in one tournament that you have such a small chance of winning? Not to mention the fact that anything below Code S pays absolute shit while even the Code S RO32 is a pretty crappy format. There's just no real incentive to go to Korea instead of staying in EU/NA. Pay from the multitude of tournaments ends up being better, especially considering you can still be with family/friends/school work as opposed to paying to fly out and live in a foreign country where you don't know the language and have a lot of other things going against you.
I understand players not wanting to participate in the GSL, but the super tournament? its a maximum 3 week commitment for the biggest prize pool they will see in a tournament for a long while. and within the super tournament there is still time to attend MLG as well. As long as your team isnt cheap and is willing to pay for your flight i dont see the problem
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
I think it is.
If they made the tournaments last, let's say, 2 weeks. Then it would become a lot better for foreigners to attend it.
I think how long it lasts is the culprit here, and probably expenses, but mostly time.
Well GSL's only last about 3 weeks as is right now, and thats if you make it to the finals otherwise its pretty much a 2 week tournament, gsl may started at the end of april 24th or something like that and ended on what the 12th thats less than 3 weeks, and obviously if your out before than you can leave , and if you make it to the finals obviously its worht it to stay. Everyone keeps saying a month but i dont remember any GSL that lasted a month its usually in between 2-3 weeks. 2 weeks and then a week for the finals.
So i dont really see what your getting at.... especially for this super tournament the money is way higher than any other tournament right now for first to 4th easily. And you would beable to participate in other tournaments (mc going to dreamhack summer, 4 koreans in super tournament going to MLG, and you can still do your NASL stuff, there is 4 foreigners fromm that region (including sen) in the top 10 considering the distribution of regions that is pretty huge, and although lag can have its effects these players are dealing with it just fine it seems especially for a week or 2 and a chance to participate in the super tournament for sure. I mean if you get knocked out quick then your there for a week and its not really a big deal, but the longer you stay there in the tournament the more worth it it is to take a bit of a latency hit and stay in the tournament.
Doesnt seem like a huge deal to me, just a great opportunity
Compare to MLG which lasts three days, DH 5, IEM 5 days, GSL takes an eternity. There is something obviously wrong with the way GSL has scheduled their tournaments. I believe they did the wrond thing trying to copy MSL and OSL... SC2 is a much more dynamic scene than BW nowadays.
And of course, it would obviously not seem a huge deal to you, coz you are not playing in NASL, IPL, DH and plenty of other western online tournaments.
Korean tournaments are always spaced out because they believe that giving th eplayers ample time to build strategies against their opponents and the maps they'll be on are more important than having to throw a person through 21 best of 3's in 3 days time. Get real, it's a different format, and that's how Korea has ALWAYS run it and I like it because it means the harder working harder practiced player will often yield the better result. Look at the fucking MSL for christ sake, they play 1 set out each WEEK. out of a best of 7.
I mean, fine if people want easy money by staying wherever they can, that's their perogative, but if they want the prestige of making it where the big boys play, they'll need to go to Korea and try their hand there. If the foreigners were as good as they claim they are (and some are legitimately good) they should have no fear about making it deep into the tournament and making a decent amount of cash from it. It's all just about risk vs reward, if people think the reward isn't worth it, than fine, but stop blaming GSL for this, this is the players choice.
On May 18 2011 05:01 Kazeyonoma wrote: Korean tournaments are always spaced out because they believe that giving th eplayers ample time to build strategies against their opponents and the maps they'll be on are more important than having to throw a person through 21 best of 3's in 3 days time. Get real, it's a different format, and that's how Korea has ALWAYS run it and I like it because it means the harder working harder practiced player will often yield the better result. Look at the fucking MSL for christ sake, they play 1 set out each WEEK. out of a best of 7.
I mean, fine if people want easy money by staying wherever they can, that's their perogative, but if they want the prestige of making it where the big boys play, they'll need to go to Korea and try their hand there. If the foreigners were as good as they claim they are (and some are legitimately good) they should have no fear about making it deep into the tournament and making a decent amount of cash from it. It's all just about risk vs reward, if people think the reward isn't worth it, than fine, but stop blaming GSL for this, this is the players choice.
The problem is that GSL tried to copy the OSL and MSL model without the infrastructure. Players can afford to be in a tournament that takes several weeks because 1) there are two individual leagues and a team league and 2) it's easier to live off of just 3 leagues because at least one of these leagues is always going on and you're still getting some money/a house/good practice partners/living expenses paid/etc. For foreigners and the GSL, they can maybe get a flight out there, get into the foreign house, and maybe get some living expenses paid, but they get to participate in only one tournament (and maybe some online ones if they want to sacrifice their sleep schedule/deal with any potential lag issues) while having to face an extremely different culture, language, and timezone, along with not having many good practice partners.
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
I think it is.
If they made the tournaments last, let's say, 2 weeks. Then it would become a lot better for foreigners to attend it.
I think how long it lasts is the culprit here, and probably expenses, but mostly time.
Well GSL's only last about 3 weeks as is right now, and thats if you make it to the finals otherwise its pretty much a 2 week tournament, gsl may started at the end of april 24th or something like that and ended on what the 12th thats less than 3 weeks, and obviously if your out before than you can leave , and if you make it to the finals obviously its worht it to stay. Everyone keeps saying a month but i dont remember any GSL that lasted a month its usually in between 2-3 weeks. 2 weeks and then a week for the finals.
So i dont really see what your getting at.... especially for this super tournament the money is way higher than any other tournament right now for first to 4th easily. And you would beable to participate in other tournaments (mc going to dreamhack summer, 4 koreans in super tournament going to MLG, and you can still do your NASL stuff, there is 4 foreigners fromm that region (including sen) in the top 10 considering the distribution of regions that is pretty huge, and although lag can have its effects these players are dealing with it just fine it seems especially for a week or 2 and a chance to participate in the super tournament for sure. I mean if you get knocked out quick then your there for a week and its not really a big deal, but the longer you stay there in the tournament the more worth it it is to take a bit of a latency hit and stay in the tournament.
Doesnt seem like a huge deal to me, just a great opportunity
Compare to MLG which lasts three days, DH 5, IEM 5 days, GSL takes an eternity. There is something obviously wrong with the way GSL has scheduled their tournaments. I believe they did the wrond thing trying to copy MSL and OSL... SC2 is a much more dynamic scene than BW nowadays.
And of course, it would obviously not seem a huge deal to you, coz you are not playing in NASL, IPL, DH and plenty of other western online tournaments.
and you forget that GSL pays the highest of those, and you will be paid very well if you place high. So time invested is compensated if you place high. Meanwhile, some of those tournaments they are able to compete in conjunction with GSL.
Poor GSL, I love them and their production/trying but they have the worst luck when it comes to finals being one-sided, planning of the tournaments and foreigners performing as they should. (jinro constantly gets flustered and stressed, just watch the games he's winning and the games he's losing... it's night and day.)
The biggest problem for foreigners is probably the prize distribution. If it wasn't so damn top heavy more foreigners would probably be willing to participate.
Think about it this way, the finals, semifinals and maybe even parts of the quarterfinals will be played in the last week.
So this is the timeline for foreigners.
Go to Korea and compete up to the quarterfinals. Travel to MLG to compete. Return to Korea for later rounds.
If they do this, they spend thousands of dollars on flights from europe --> korea --> usa --> korea --> europe. Let's not forget the money they have to spend on accomodations, food etc. while in usa and whatever GOM doesn't provide while in korea. They spend more on flights than can be won in prize money unless they make the semifinals of the super tournament.
On the other hand, if they are eliminated before the quarterfinals, is it really worth the money to go? You spend a couple of weeks in korea and win at most $2000 (which basically covers the flights). Or you could stay in europe/usa, compete in online cups, do well in NASL/IPL qualifiers and end up with more money.
So basically, going there and being eliminated early is a huge waste of money. Going there and making it to the quarterfinals is a huge waste of money. Realistically, they'd have to make it to the semifinals (at least) to make this a worthwhile investment.
I mean if GSL just cut the first prize by $20,000 and spread that out among everyone else there would be so much more incentive for foreigners to go. But as it is, it just makes no sense financially to go unless you are nearly certain you can make the semifinals. And how the hell can anyone be certain? Anyone can be eliminated at any point of the tournament. Even the best players in the world can be randomly eliminated in the early rounds... it happens.
The reason so many foreigners were willing to go to the WC (and sponsors were willing to pay for it) is that it was a much shorter tournament and there was a bunch more guaranteed money. I strongly encourage GOM to rethink their prize distribution for future tournaments. This sort of distribution will never work for foreigners. Not with all of the millions of online cups/foreign tournaments going on.
i really love gsl more than any other tournament out there. it has the best casters and the best players and gom was the first organization to really put money into this game and broadcast something excellent partnered with blizzard.
i really look forward to all their events and this might be the best one yet ^_^
On May 18 2011 05:01 Kazeyonoma wrote: Korean tournaments are always spaced out because they believe that giving th eplayers ample time to build strategies against their opponents and the maps they'll be on are more important than having to throw a person through 21 best of 3's in 3 days time. Get real, it's a different format, and that's how Korea has ALWAYS run it and I like it because it means the harder working harder practiced player will often yield the better result. Look at the fucking MSL for christ sake, they play 1 set out each WEEK. out of a best of 7.
I mean, fine if people want easy money by staying wherever they can, that's their perogative, but if they want the prestige of making it where the big boys play, they'll need to go to Korea and try their hand there. If the foreigners were as good as they claim they are (and some are legitimately good) they should have no fear about making it deep into the tournament and making a decent amount of cash from it. It's all just about risk vs reward, if people think the reward isn't worth it, than fine, but stop blaming GSL for this, this is the players choice.
Nope, IMHO SC tournaments like MSL and OSL are spaced out because 1) pro players would have nowhere else to play if the tournaments lasted a week. 2) It's more profitable to do it that way - rather than having plenty of small tournaments with little money each. That's not the situation with SC2 at all.. you have a huge up-and-coming western scene in which korean server players are mostly missing out on.
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
I think it is.
If they made the tournaments last, let's say, 2 weeks. Then it would become a lot better for foreigners to attend it.
I think how long it lasts is the culprit here, and probably expenses, but mostly time.
Well GSL's only last about 3 weeks as is right now, and thats if you make it to the finals otherwise its pretty much a 2 week tournament, gsl may started at the end of april 24th or something like that and ended on what the 12th thats less than 3 weeks, and obviously if your out before than you can leave , and if you make it to the finals obviously its worht it to stay. Everyone keeps saying a month but i dont remember any GSL that lasted a month its usually in between 2-3 weeks. 2 weeks and then a week for the finals.
So i dont really see what your getting at.... especially for this super tournament the money is way higher than any other tournament right now for first to 4th easily. And you would beable to participate in other tournaments (mc going to dreamhack summer, 4 koreans in super tournament going to MLG, and you can still do your NASL stuff, there is 4 foreigners fromm that region (including sen) in the top 10 considering the distribution of regions that is pretty huge, and although lag can have its effects these players are dealing with it just fine it seems especially for a week or 2 and a chance to participate in the super tournament for sure. I mean if you get knocked out quick then your there for a week and its not really a big deal, but the longer you stay there in the tournament the more worth it it is to take a bit of a latency hit and stay in the tournament.
Doesnt seem like a huge deal to me, just a great opportunity
Compare to MLG which lasts three days, DH 5, IEM 5 days, GSL takes an eternity. There is something obviously wrong with the way GSL has scheduled their tournaments. I believe they did the wrond thing trying to copy MSL and OSL... SC2 is a much more dynamic scene than BW nowadays.
And of course, it would obviously not seem a huge deal to you, coz you are not playing in NASL, IPL, DH and plenty of other western online tournaments.
and you forget that GSL pays the highest of those, and you will be paid very well if you place high. So time invested is compensated if you place high. Meanwhile, some of those tournaments they are able to compete in conjunction with GSL.
I didn't forget, GSL is copying the BW model, step by step, I said this, i.e. offering huge prizes in pretty long tournaments. Problem is in SC2 there is thriving foreign community with as many opportunities to make money as GSL -- if not more -- which was absent in BW. Obviously the guys organizing GSL completely underestimated the growth of e-sports in the west and thought players outside of Korea would be begging to be invited to the GSL.. which turns out, was pretty off-the-mark.
GSL kinda cut their own neck in a way, going to MLG can get you a seed directly to code S, so if your interest is even in GSL, you're better off going to MLG, oh well, both MLG and GSL SuperTourney gonna be sick :D
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
I think it is.
If they made the tournaments last, let's say, 2 weeks. Then it would become a lot better for foreigners to attend it.
I think how long it lasts is the culprit here, and probably expenses, but mostly time.
Well GSL's only last about 3 weeks as is right now, and thats if you make it to the finals otherwise its pretty much a 2 week tournament, gsl may started at the end of april 24th or something like that and ended on what the 12th thats less than 3 weeks, and obviously if your out before than you can leave , and if you make it to the finals obviously its worht it to stay. Everyone keeps saying a month but i dont remember any GSL that lasted a month its usually in between 2-3 weeks. 2 weeks and then a week for the finals.
So i dont really see what your getting at.... especially for this super tournament the money is way higher than any other tournament right now for first to 4th easily. And you would beable to participate in other tournaments (mc going to dreamhack summer, 4 koreans in super tournament going to MLG, and you can still do your NASL stuff, there is 4 foreigners fromm that region (including sen) in the top 10 considering the distribution of regions that is pretty huge, and although lag can have its effects these players are dealing with it just fine it seems especially for a week or 2 and a chance to participate in the super tournament for sure. I mean if you get knocked out quick then your there for a week and its not really a big deal, but the longer you stay there in the tournament the more worth it it is to take a bit of a latency hit and stay in the tournament.
Doesnt seem like a huge deal to me, just a great opportunity
Compare to MLG which lasts three days, DH 5, IEM 5 days, GSL takes an eternity. There is something obviously wrong with the way GSL has scheduled their tournaments. I believe they did the wrond thing trying to copy MSL and OSL... SC2 is a much more dynamic scene than BW nowadays.
And of course, it would obviously not seem a huge deal to you, coz you are not playing in NASL, IPL, DH and plenty of other western online tournaments.
and you forget that GSL pays the highest of those, and you will be paid very well if you place high. So time invested is compensated if you place high. Meanwhile, some of those tournaments they are able to compete in conjunction with GSL.
I didn't forget, GSL is copying the BW model, step by step, I said this, i.e. offering huge prizes in pretty long tournaments. Problem is in SC2 there is thriving foreign community with as many opportunities to make money as GSL -- if not more -- which was absent in BW. Obviously the guys organizing GSL completely underestimated the growth of e-sports in the west and thought players outside of Korea would be begging to be invited to the GSL.. which turns out, was pretty off-the-mark.
If you didn't forget, then why are you comparing if you know that GSL pays the highest but also requires you to commit more?
they are televising the GSL, you think they should mimic the MLG format? where it's a 3 day tournament for first place of $5k. They can't show 3 days worth of material and then wait 2-3 more months for 2-3 day tournament of material again. Or if they do like a tournament every weekend for like $10k, it would get pretty stale.
It's not underestimating anything, they just want the best players whether it be foreigners or not. If you are the best, you can potentially make the most out of GSL. If foreigners are on equal level as Koreans then they can make money from GSL as well. As it stands, if MC (or even Nestea) wins this super tournament, he will have earned $250k this year. Which progamer wouldn't want to earn that much? One year of playing outside of Korea won't net you that much. Maybe foreigners feel that Korean level is too high and it's easier to make money by not devoting time in Korea.
I don't get why people like the MLG format. These 3 days are wayy too stacked and are not a good environment for specators and progamers. Organizers cannot broadcast all the games, and players cannot prepare for specific matchups or opponents. Players have to play tons of games in a short time, just like naniwa who went 23-2 by 4-gating every opponent.
This format may be good for FPS games, but not RTS. Anyway, the competition will definitely not become healthier with this kind of format. Let's be honest, you can't run a proper sc2 tournament if it takes place in the span of 3 days.
There's a reason why GOMTV tries to mimic BW tournament formats, that's because their the BEST format when it comes to competitive RTS. Don't blame GomTV for their organization, blame the players for their lack of dedication.
On May 18 2011 06:50 AlBundy wrote: I don't get why people like the MLG format. These 3 days are wayy too stacked and are not a good environment for specators and progamers. Organizers cannot broadcast all the games, and players cannot prepare for specific matchups or opponents. Players have to play tons of games in a short time, just like naniwa who went 23-2 by 4-gating every opponent.
This format may be good for FPS games, but not RTS. Anyway, the competition will definitely not become healthier with this kind of format. Let's be honest, you can't run a proper sc2 tournament if it takes place in the span of 3 days.
There's a reason why GOMTV tries to mimic BW tournament formats, that's because their the BEST format when it comes to competitive RTS. Don't blame GomTV for their organization, blame the players for their lack of dedication.
What are you talking about the MLG format is perfect becuase it provide alot of entertainment for the fans in a very short timespan..
Also for the players winning an MLG type format tournament means you have to be really good in overall. You cant just practise vs 1 build or against the opponent you know you facing that means more exciting matches.
The GSL type format you got time to prepare and studie you opponent the MLG type format you need to be good in all aspect of the game in all matchups.
And as a fan I much more prefer watching MLG/Dreamhack format tournament simply becuase you dont have to wait a long time to find out who is the best. Its action nonestop.
On May 18 2011 06:50 AlBundy wrote: I don't get why people like the MLG format. These 3 days are wayy too stacked and are not a good environment for specators and progamers. Organizers cannot broadcast all the games, and players cannot prepare for specific matchups or opponents. Players have to play tons of games in a short time, just like naniwa who went 23-2 by 4-gating every opponent.
This format may be good for FPS games, but not RTS. Anyway, the competition will definitely not become healthier with this kind of format. Let's be honest, you can't run a proper sc2 tournament if it takes place in the span of 3 days.
There's a reason why GOMTV tries to mimic BW tournament formats, that's because their the BEST format when it comes to competitive RTS. Don't blame GomTV for their organization, blame the players for their lack of dedication.
Agreed, between the lack of player dedication and not having enough faith in themselves (skill?) is what i blame for them not showing up. If they thought they could do well it would be totally worth going obviously, if they get top 4 or even 8 its more than they are going to make from winning any other tournament going on right now save from NASL in a few months wich top koreans are participating in anyways.
GSL is by far the best tournament out there right now, and no tournament is going to even come close to their production value for a long time to come. These players that declined invitations will go to MLG and dreamhack and likely not place well and realise they missed out on a solid opportunity. At least for MLG the players who were invited to the super tournament who declined except maybe TT1 all will be in the open bracket of the tournament meaning the chances of them winning are exceptionally lower than even the super tournament, add to the fact that koreans will also be participating at MLG (the same ones in the super tournament) and suddenly they are choosing MLG with a 20th of the prize pool for less of a chance to win then the super tournament. Doesnt make much sense to me, and if your on a half decent team shouldnt they be paying for your air fare anyways, especially considering how much exposure the team will get by participating in the super tournament (and their sponsors of course) so the burden shouldnt even be on the player.
On May 18 2011 06:50 AlBundy wrote: I don't get why people like the MLG format. These 3 days are wayy too stacked and are not a good environment for specators and progamers. Organizers cannot broadcast all the games, and players cannot prepare for specific matchups or opponents. Players have to play tons of games in a short time, just like naniwa who went 23-2 by 4-gating every opponent.
This format may be good for FPS games, but not RTS. Anyway, the competition will definitely not become healthier with this kind of format. Let's be honest, you can't run a proper sc2 tournament if it takes place in the span of 3 days.
There's a reason why GOMTV tries to mimic BW tournament formats, that's because their the BEST format when it comes to competitive RTS. Don't blame GomTV for their organization, blame the players for their lack of dedication.
What are you talking about the MLG format is perfect becuase it provide alot of entertainment for the fans in a very short timespan..
Also for the players winning an MLG type format tournament means you have to be really good in overall. You cant just practise vs 1 build or against the opponent you know you facing that means more exciting matches.
The GSL type format you got time to prepare and studie you opponent the MLG type format you need to be good in all aspect of the game in all matchups.
And as a fan I much more prefer watching MLG/Dreamhack format tournament simply becuase you dont have to wait a long time to find out who is the best. Its action nonestop.
Each has it's pros and cons but the way GSL is setup is best for television. It's pretty hardcore for people to watch 2-3 days straight and watching for however many hours they can cram in those days. Whereas GSL, matchups are known ahead of time and people will know what time to tune in to watch their favorite player.
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
I think it is.
If they made the tournaments last, let's say, 2 weeks. Then it would become a lot better for foreigners to attend it.
I think how long it lasts is the culprit here, and probably expenses, but mostly time.
Well GSL's only last about 3 weeks as is right now, and thats if you make it to the finals otherwise its pretty much a 2 week tournament, gsl may started at the end of april 24th or something like that and ended on what the 12th thats less than 3 weeks, and obviously if your out before than you can leave , and if you make it to the finals obviously its worht it to stay. Everyone keeps saying a month but i dont remember any GSL that lasted a month its usually in between 2-3 weeks. 2 weeks and then a week for the finals.
So i dont really see what your getting at.... especially for this super tournament the money is way higher than any other tournament right now for first to 4th easily. And you would beable to participate in other tournaments (mc going to dreamhack summer, 4 koreans in super tournament going to MLG, and you can still do your NASL stuff, there is 4 foreigners fromm that region (including sen) in the top 10 considering the distribution of regions that is pretty huge, and although lag can have its effects these players are dealing with it just fine it seems especially for a week or 2 and a chance to participate in the super tournament for sure. I mean if you get knocked out quick then your there for a week and its not really a big deal, but the longer you stay there in the tournament the more worth it it is to take a bit of a latency hit and stay in the tournament.
Doesnt seem like a huge deal to me, just a great opportunity
Compare to MLG which lasts three days, DH 5, IEM 5 days, GSL takes an eternity. There is something obviously wrong with the way GSL has scheduled their tournaments. I believe they did the wrond thing trying to copy MSL and OSL... SC2 is a much more dynamic scene than BW nowadays.
And of course, it would obviously not seem a huge deal to you, coz you are not playing in NASL, IPL, DH and plenty of other western online tournaments.
and you forget that GSL pays the highest of those, and you will be paid very well if you place high. So time invested is compensated if you place high. Meanwhile, some of those tournaments they are able to compete in conjunction with GSL.
I didn't forget, GSL is copying the BW model, step by step, I said this, i.e. offering huge prizes in pretty long tournaments. Problem is in SC2 there is thriving foreign community with as many opportunities to make money as GSL -- if not more -- which was absent in BW. Obviously the guys organizing GSL completely underestimated the growth of e-sports in the west and thought players outside of Korea would be begging to be invited to the GSL.. which turns out, was pretty off-the-mark.
If you didn't forget, then why are you comparing if you know that GSL pays the highest but also requires you to commit more?
they are televising the GSL, you think they should mimic the MLG format? where it's a 3 day tournament for first place of $5k. They can't show 3 days worth of material and then wait 2-3 more months for 2-3 day tournament of material again. Or if they do like a tournament every weekend for like $10k, it would get pretty stale.
It's not underestimating anything, they just want the best players whether it be foreigners or not. If you are the best, you can potentially make the most out of GSL. If foreigners are on equal level as Koreans then they can make money from GSL as well. As it stands, if MC (or even Nestea) wins this super tournament, he will have earned $250k this year. Which progamer wouldn't want to earn that much? One year of playing outside of Korea won't net you that much. Maybe foreigners feel that Korean level is too high and it's easier to make money by not devoting time in Korea.
I really don't know to respond to all the stuff you wrote, you didn't address a single argument of mine, but you win anway. The way they go, GSL won't last another year though.. it's pretty much blizzard carrying the water right now, but once the foreign pro scene gets bigger than korea by a significant margin -- and trust me, it will -- korea won't seem as important to blizzard anymore.
On May 18 2011 06:08 Adebisi wrote: GSL kinda cut their own neck in a way, going to MLG can get you a seed directly to code S, so if your interest is even in GSL, you're better off going to MLG, oh well, both MLG and GSL SuperTourney gonna be sick :D
Code A not Code S. Unless the exchange program has been revised in the last few days.
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
I think it is.
If they made the tournaments last, let's say, 2 weeks. Then it would become a lot better for foreigners to attend it.
I think how long it lasts is the culprit here, and probably expenses, but mostly time.
Well GSL's only last about 3 weeks as is right now, and thats if you make it to the finals otherwise its pretty much a 2 week tournament, gsl may started at the end of april 24th or something like that and ended on what the 12th thats less than 3 weeks, and obviously if your out before than you can leave , and if you make it to the finals obviously its worht it to stay. Everyone keeps saying a month but i dont remember any GSL that lasted a month its usually in between 2-3 weeks. 2 weeks and then a week for the finals.
So i dont really see what your getting at.... especially for this super tournament the money is way higher than any other tournament right now for first to 4th easily. And you would beable to participate in other tournaments (mc going to dreamhack summer, 4 koreans in super tournament going to MLG, and you can still do your NASL stuff, there is 4 foreigners fromm that region (including sen) in the top 10 considering the distribution of regions that is pretty huge, and although lag can have its effects these players are dealing with it just fine it seems especially for a week or 2 and a chance to participate in the super tournament for sure. I mean if you get knocked out quick then your there for a week and its not really a big deal, but the longer you stay there in the tournament the more worth it it is to take a bit of a latency hit and stay in the tournament.
Doesnt seem like a huge deal to me, just a great opportunity
Compare to MLG which lasts three days, DH 5, IEM 5 days, GSL takes an eternity. There is something obviously wrong with the way GSL has scheduled their tournaments. I believe they did the wrond thing trying to copy MSL and OSL... SC2 is a much more dynamic scene than BW nowadays.
And of course, it would obviously not seem a huge deal to you, coz you are not playing in NASL, IPL, DH and plenty of other western online tournaments.
and you forget that GSL pays the highest of those, and you will be paid very well if you place high. So time invested is compensated if you place high. Meanwhile, some of those tournaments they are able to compete in conjunction with GSL.
I didn't forget, GSL is copying the BW model, step by step, I said this, i.e. offering huge prizes in pretty long tournaments. Problem is in SC2 there is thriving foreign community with as many opportunities to make money as GSL -- if not more -- which was absent in BW. Obviously the guys organizing GSL completely underestimated the growth of e-sports in the west and thought players outside of Korea would be begging to be invited to the GSL.. which turns out, was pretty off-the-mark.
If you didn't forget, then why are you comparing if you know that GSL pays the highest but also requires you to commit more?
they are televising the GSL, you think they should mimic the MLG format? where it's a 3 day tournament for first place of $5k. They can't show 3 days worth of material and then wait 2-3 more months for 2-3 day tournament of material again. Or if they do like a tournament every weekend for like $10k, it would get pretty stale.
It's not underestimating anything, they just want the best players whether it be foreigners or not. If you are the best, you can potentially make the most out of GSL. If foreigners are on equal level as Koreans then they can make money from GSL as well. As it stands, if MC (or even Nestea) wins this super tournament, he will have earned $250k this year. Which progamer wouldn't want to earn that much? One year of playing outside of Korea won't net you that much. Maybe foreigners feel that Korean level is too high and it's easier to make money by not devoting time in Korea.
I really don't know to respond to all the stuff you wrote, you didn't address a single argument of mine, but you win anway. The way they go, GSL won't last another year though.. it's pretty much blizzard carrying the water right now, but once the foreign pro scene gets bigger than korea by a significant margin -- and trust me, it will -- korea won't seem as important to blizzard anymore.
I dont really agree with that at all, there is a huge e sports market in korea, most likely larger than the entire western market right now, we have 50k people watching streams on the best of days, they have hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) watching on streams and their tv sets. Although most of that attention is on brood war at the moment, it will slowly shift its not like starcraft 2 has gotten less popular in korea since it started it has gotten more popular that is the reason why gom is able to do upgrades have more impressive venues and more tournaments. It will continue to grow , and once brood war is out of style there will be a huge explosion. It will most likely happen after hots, but right now in terms of people interested in e sports korea has a larger market then the west, just most of those people are watching brood war still.
On May 18 2011 06:50 AlBundy wrote: I don't get why people like the MLG format. These 3 days are wayy too stacked and are not a good environment for specators and progamers. Organizers cannot broadcast all the games, and players cannot prepare for specific matchups or opponents. Players have to play tons of games in a short time, just like naniwa who went 23-2 by 4-gating every opponent.
This format may be good for FPS games, but not RTS. Anyway, the competition will definitely not become healthier with this kind of format. Let's be honest, you can't run a proper sc2 tournament if it takes place in the span of 3 days.
There's a reason why GOMTV tries to mimic BW tournament formats, that's because their the BEST format when it comes to competitive RTS. Don't blame GomTV for their organization, blame the players for their lack of dedication.
Agreed, between the lack of player dedication and not having enough faith in themselves (skill?) is what i blame for them not showing up. If they thought they could do well it would be totally worth going obviously, if they get top 4 or even 8 its more than they are going to make from winning any other tournament going on right now save from NASL in a few months wich top koreans are participating in anyways.
GSL is by far the best tournament out there right now, and no tournament is going to even come close to their production value for a long time to come. These players that declined invitations will go to MLG and dreamhack and likely not place well and realise they missed out on a solid opportunity. At least for MLG the players who were invited to the super tournament who declined except maybe TT1 all will be in the open bracket of the tournament meaning the chances of them winning are exceptionally lower than even the super tournament, add to the fact that koreans will also be participating at MLG (the same ones in the super tournament) and suddenly they are choosing MLG with a 20th of the prize pool for less of a chance to win then the super tournament. Doesnt make much sense to me, and if your on a half decent team shouldnt they be paying for your air fare anyways, especially considering how much exposure the team will get by participating in the super tournament (and their sponsors of course) so the burden shouldnt even be on the player.
Your first paragraph is completely misunderstanding the entire point. Foreigners don't go because they're not dedicated - it's because the risk/reward trade-off is NOT in their favor at all. You go, and even if you're damn good, you have so many things going against you and you are risking so much that it just isn't worth it for the small chance at being successful enough to sustain yourself in the Korean scene.
I really don't know to respond to all the stuff you wrote, you didn't address a single argument of mine, but you win anway. The way they go, GSL won't last another year though.. it's pretty much blizzard carrying the water right now, but once the foreign pro scene gets bigger than korea by a significant margin -- and trust me, it will -- korea won't seem as important to blizzard anymore.
The foreign SC2 scene is definitely more active than the Korean one, but the overall e-sports market in Korea still overshadows the rest of the world. That's why Blizzard is pushing to make SC2 a success there.
Wow, so few Protoss. It's so funny that Protoss is supposedly the OP race, when MC is the only notable protoss here. anypro, hongun and san are all good, but they aren't amazing at all.
I hope Korea gets more big tournaments to entice them to come. I can't blame them for not wanting to enter. The opportunities are clearly not there. But as a spectator it's just depressing as hell seeing the better tournament not able to draw the big foreign names.
MC vs Alicia in the first round! Huk gets PvP again lol. After that he has to take on the winner of Losira and Polt "MC-slayer" prime. But hey, no one gave him a chance to make it out of the MKP/MMA group either and look what happened there. Genius vs Boxer first round T_T. Jinro with a good draw. Line in the first round (don't remember him at all) followed by either kyrix or vanvanth. After that he'll probably either face Nada (manageable) or have his chance for revenge against CoCa.
GOM is not at fault for foreigners not participating. Foreigners chose not to participate and its their loss. Whatever the consequence, its the SUPER tournament for a reason. Conflicting schedules and participating in more individual events are pretty shallow reasons for a possible career-changing tournament this early in SC2. The grand champion will undoubtedly be the best SC2 player.
Ok, so after World Championship, Koreans just scare the shit out of any foreigners. Now I appreciate the co-operation between MLG and GOM even more so, thats the only way we can see some Koreans vs the world :D.
On May 18 2011 11:35 red4ce wrote: MC vs Alicia in the first round! Huk gets PvP again lol. After that he has to take on the winner of Losira and Polt "MC-slayer" prime. But hey, no one gave him a chance to make it out of the MKP/MMA group either and look what happened there. Genius vs Boxer first round T_T. Jinro with a good draw. Line in the first round (don't remember him at all) followed by either kyrix or vanvanth. After that he'll probably either face Nada (manageable) or have his chance for revenge against CoCa.
The only reason Huk advanced in up/down is because MMA fell apart and made the worst banshee/tank/marine all-in in the history of GSL after playing what was some of the sloppiest TvT against MKP.
Quite a shame there will only be 2 foreigners in the tournament, was expecting quite a few more based on the points table. Oh well, should still be good, just a little disappointing.
On May 18 2011 12:08 opticalza wrote: Quite a shame there will only be 2 foreigners in the tournament, was expecting quite a few more based on the points table. Oh well, should still be good, just a little disappointing.
Actually, foreigners got next to no chance at winning this, thats why they declined. I hope that in the future SC2 got better sponsors so there are large amount of foreigners got their abroad travel and accomodation paid so they can join an awesome tourney like this
On May 18 2011 11:35 red4ce wrote: MC vs Alicia in the first round! Huk gets PvP again lol. After that he has to take on the winner of Losira and Polt "MC-slayer" prime. But hey, no one gave him a chance to make it out of the MKP/MMA group either and look what happened there. Genius vs Boxer first round T_T. Jinro with a good draw. Line in the first round (don't remember him at all) followed by either kyrix or vanvanth. After that he'll probably either face Nada (manageable) or have his chance for revenge against CoCa.
The only reason Huk advanced in up/down is because MMA fell apart and made the worst banshee/tank/marine all-in in the history of GSL after playing what was some of the sloppiest TvT against MKP.
Agreed. MMA completely fell apart. I hope MMA can pull together and win Code A/ make it to Code S/ win the super tournament. I love MMA, seems like a great guy.
I am SOOO excited for this tournament. Go NaDa Boxer Jinro Huk MKP MMA Ryung Alicia MC (LOL torn on the last one)
edit: THIS IS FRUITDEALERS TIME TO SHINE! its 64 players hopefully maybe this will somehow spark his Open Season powers lol
gonna be sooo sick. no more BO1 Code S matches, no more map imba, its all here for anyone to take. itll definitely weed out the weaker players in GSL. i also agree on the wildcards. min nuts and creator all seem like great players.
I honestly dont care if foreigners play and i honestly dont want them too. I watch GSL to watch the best koreans and players in the world, not a bunch of foreigners
On May 18 2011 03:23 s4life wrote: GSL is failing pretty hard at being 'global'.. heck it's actually failing hard hyping SC2 with koreans too.. it seems this year will be the end of big money for korean players.
I don't think this is the GSL's fail.
I think it is.
If they made the tournaments last, let's say, 2 weeks. Then it would become a lot better for foreigners to attend it.
I think how long it lasts is the culprit here, and probably expenses, but mostly time.
I just want to see the games not a brunch of white dudes. If Koreans dominate and let them be, it's their home turf after all.
On May 18 2011 12:29 425kid wrote: GSL is putting up the biggest prize pool in sc2, if foreigners dont want to invest time/money to get it then they shouldnt get it
Agree.Gom gave them so many pointless seeding, setting up free foreigners house. Yet people still complain there's not enough foreigners. It's the foreigner player's problem, they have a family back home hence not wanting to commit to just one. It's almost impossible for a family guy like whitera to stay in korea for more than a year.
On May 18 2011 12:44 ZergMaestro wrote: Who the fuck turns down a shot at that huge of a prize pool. Foreigners are just afraid to lose on the big stage.
There is no downside to going to korea for the supertournament if gom invites you. "yea bro I don't give no shit about 90grand"
Whatever fuck Foreigners. This is going to own.
The winner will be the best SC2 player in the world.
Not everyone can afford to go to Korea for a month long tournament. Even with sponsors. Some people do have other obligations in their life even though they are progamers.
Alicia vs MC.... FUCK. That's just a lame match to happen in the R64. Lame matchup in which one of the best PvTers in the world is probably going to go out... terrible luck T_T
On May 18 2011 13:18 HolyArrow wrote: Alicia vs MC.... FUCK. That's just a lame match to happen in the R64. Lame matchup in which one of the best PvTers in the world is probably going to go out... terrible luck T_T
yeah. there are a ton of mirror matches. i dont want to see san vs huk ro64 either.
I completely understand why the foreigners declined the invitations. Even if the prizepool is high (for the winner), you really don't play a lot of matchs for like 2-3months and you are unable to participate in online events, this is far from being ideal. Not everyone wants to go to korea to maybe play only a bo3.
was hoping dongraegu would be in it But I also didn't know it was point based, thoguht it was a qualifier like the original open GSLs. still looks like itll be pretty exciting.
Why did the forgeiners decline invations. MLG? None of the days overlap and I can see Bomber and Losira participating in both events. If koreans can why couldnt forgeiners?
On May 17 2011 23:15 Morale wrote: Morrow, TT1, moonglade, whitera and dimaga.
I'm now rooting against these players and not for them, no matter how much I like Dimaga's play.
What?
....
What?
Great lineup, and totally understable for the foreigner not to go imho.
On May 18 2011 15:45 Sea_Food wrote: Wtf????
Why did the forgeiners decline invations. MLG? None of the days overlap and I can see Bomber and Losira participating in both events. If koreans can why couldnt forgeiners?
also huk also does both rigth?
Because Koreans live in Korea and foreigners have other tournaments?
On May 18 2011 15:39 koolaid1990 wrote: Who the hell is Line? Jinro has no excuse if he doesnt win this one, he has one of the easiest opponents
So you're assuming he sucks just because you don't know him?
On May 18 2011 15:39 koolaid1990 wrote: Who the hell is Line? Jinro has no excuse if he doesnt win this one, he has one of the easiest opponents
If he's good enough to qualify, he's probably pretty good... to some extent... just because he's unknown doesn't mean he'll instantly lose...
No, Line actually is terrible (from what we've seen). He's the team captain of ZeNEX, but he lost to Hyperdub last GSL so Jinro should have no trouble dispatching him.
On May 18 2011 00:17 busbarn wrote: Missing out on MLG, DH and maybe homestory cup only to have a slight chance of beating one or two koreans is probably not worth it
I believe the first place prize for GSL supertournament is more than the sum of the total prize pools of those other three tournaments. Anyone with a chance of winning should compete in the GSL tourney imo...
Lets not beat around the bush here, the foreigners that declined dont have the skill necessary to make it deep into the tournament.
Some might make it to ro32 but thats a pittance compared to potential money they can make in NA and EU.
I just wish people would stop asking why foreigners wont participate in GSL ffs, the answer is clear as day.
Outside maybe 4 koreans atm i wouldn't say anyone has a "good" shot at a deep run. The bigger reason is gom shuts them down for anything else for a month to compete.
they dont need to stay for a month though if they lose in the r64 or r32, nothing stopping them from packing their bag and leave
For a tournament as packed as this one, Jinro has a pretty good draw. From wat we've seen Line is pretty awful, and Jinro is good enough to beat Kyrix or BanBans. If he reaches the Ro16, he plays either Junwi/Virus/Coca/Nada. They're obviously not bad at all (Jinro lost to Coca) but compared to a lot of the groups, he lucked out quite a bit. Jinro vs Nada is very possible.
Well will this tournament take a month to complete as well? Because MLG is a weekend so the $ per hour spent is WAY more then a month long GSL where you can't really compete elsewhere. Moonglade took 4th at IEM if he does at MLG he gets into code a, that is just smart thinking by him as its well known that its harder to get into code a then into code s.
On May 18 2011 02:01 coolcor wrote: So the MLG/GOM exchange is probably doomed since this shows nobody is ever going to go over to Korea for a month.
actually i dont care for foreigners in korea but its nice that there will be koreans at mlg
hope they wont stop the exchange program if no one is going to korea
btw: TheBest and legalmind? omg they wont win a sigle match
The GSL/MLG-exchange includes housing and travel expenses so I think it will be more popular.
But people aren't talking about how expensive it would be to go to Korea for the reason foreigners are not going. They are talking about all the other tournaments they will miss and saying it is better to play in those. It is they same reason Idra left and everyone on SOTG said they would refuse a code A or S spot with expenses paid and thought not many others would accept either.
didnt Tyler said that he will consider to go if it was the Code S spot ? I mean there's nothing to lose since you already got about $1400 just being in the round of 32 plus all flights and expenses are paid by GOM
I was sort of expecting at least one person to make the trip out to Korea for this, but I can understand how difficult it is to up and leave for a month on short notice.
It's sorta too bad Alicia gets MC right off the bat. Alicia's great and I like him, but I can't see him beating MC in a PvP. >_> HuK v San should be interesting, depending on if it's HoSeoMan or HoSeoSad that shows up.
man these brackets are terrible....GOM seems to have it in for the top protoss players :[ there are so few of them, and yet:
Alicia vs MC Huk vs San Ace vs FD Squirtle vs MKP Killer vs Bomber
wish they had a better system of seeding....MVP and Nestea have to take out super low point players but MC has to take out Alicia??!? (not saying i don't think he will win but I don't understand how they seeded them in a way that lands MVP and Nestea with two players from the bottom 15 players while MC gets paired with Code S Alicia =/).
my god the is so many terrans, hopefully a lot of TvT early on to knock some out!!!!
can see why the foreigners are not going, so long away where you may not win anything, no other tournaments to particapte over there when you can be at home and enter a number of different showmatches/weekly tournaments along with big tournaments like DH, MLG and many others... Not to mention if they are in NASL then they will be playing games with delay whichc an be fixed by rpacticing but when you can play at home and play with pretty much none.
I've heard the rumor but I couldn't believe it, why won't you go, why won't you try. I guess there are numerous reasons and some are actually legit in my eyes, but it's still a bit stupid it's only the GSL players. Maybe we should just see this as the equivalent to the MLG National Championship I guess? If it will run in paralel with GSL would be good but probably gonna replace temporarily.
Look, Jinro is 10th and HuK is 30th. That's amazing considering how stacked the field is. Every round grants a lot of money, if you don't believe in yourself you will never win shit anyway. There is a handful of foreigners that I could see going and doing more than ok to justify the time spent.
It's a hot topic currently and I really think it's stupid not more foreigners jump on a plane, even if it's only for the experience and personal growth. See it as an investment in yourself. Then we have ballers like NaNiwa who openly admit to actually wanting to be the best and doesn't give a fuck about cash prizes (he does but it takes a second or later place).
If it's gonna be like this, lets send people like NaNiwa over. I wanna watch him play, I wanna watch him dominate. I wanna watch him laugh when he does great in tournaments like this.
I'm more disappointed by the seeding than anything. I mean, it was random, so it's not totally GOM's fault, but there do seem to be a lot of unfair first-round matches (MC vs Alicia...). I also don't feel like the World Championship should contribute to point totals; it's just artificially boosting the point totals of the already-highest GSL players, and giving an auto-invite to foreigners who came to Korea to compete for a week over guys who have accumulated their points for 3+ months. In that sense, I'm kind of glad guys like Min and Creator got spots over WhiteRa and Dimaga, because they've put more effort into qualifying. Jinro and HuK deserve it because they've devoted their lives to making it in the GSL.
I don't keep track of all the tournaments that are currently on-going or planned in future, but how many of them actually require you to be physicall present at the tournament location? I've heard MLG and Dreamhack as examples, but it just seems puzzling how GSL Koreans have no problem (or rather eager) to go abroad to attend these MLG's and Dreamhack's of world, yet foreigners can't if they are to stay in Korea?
On May 18 2011 18:13 jellyjello wrote: I don't keep track of all the tournaments that are currently on-going or planned in future, but how many of them actually require you to be physicall present at the tournament location? I've heard MLG and Dreamhack as examples, but it just seems puzzling how GSL Koreans have no problem (or rather eager) to go abroad to attend these MLG's and Dreamhack's of world, yet foreigners can't if they are to stay in Korea?
Because deciding on living in a country on the other end of the world is an easy decision to make, right? The koreans live there anyway, then go aborad to MLG for a weekend and come back home.
As a foreigner it's a huge commitmend to go there and additionally you pretty much give up playing in foreign (especially European) online tournaments.
Also plane tickets aren't handed out for free at the airport.
On May 18 2011 18:13 jellyjello wrote: I don't keep track of all the tournaments that are currently on-going or planned in future, but how many of them actually require you to be physicall present at the tournament location? I've heard MLG and Dreamhack as examples, but it just seems puzzling how GSL Koreans have no problem (or rather eager) to go abroad to attend these MLG's and Dreamhack's of world, yet foreigners can't if they are to stay in Korea?
Because deciding on living in a country on the other end of the world is an easy decision to make, right? The koreans live there anyway, then go aborad to MLG for a weekend and come back home.
As a foreigner it's a huge commitmend to go there and additionally you pretty much give up playing in foreign (especially European) online tournaments.
Also plane tickets aren't handed out for free at the airport.
How does living in Korea equal to giving up on playing online tournaments? lol
I think the one thing most of people are forgetting is that GSL is not run by someone with a lot of money for his own pleasure or enjoyment, but rather it's a 100% business-oriented operation. If you are not a dedicated programmer, then you really don't belong in the GSL, period.
Secondly, you don't just come into Korea (for GSL) planning on only living for one month and take off. You have to invest yourself for the long term, like Jinro, Huk, and Haypro did, and work hard to get that goal you desire. Sometimes it pays off (see Huk), sometimes it's still on-going (Jinro) while other times it just doesn't work out (Haypro). Investing yourself in the long term will allow you to enjoy other online tournaments while your main focus is on the GSL.
I guess though he could qualify for the next code A via MLG. And maybe it's a contractual obligation to attend MLG, I think a few players have stuff like that.
On May 18 2011 18:13 jellyjello wrote: I don't keep track of all the tournaments that are currently on-going or planned in future, but how many of them actually require you to be physicall present at the tournament location? I've heard MLG and Dreamhack as examples, but it just seems puzzling how GSL Koreans have no problem (or rather eager) to go abroad to attend these MLG's and Dreamhack's of world, yet foreigners can't if they are to stay in Korea?
Because deciding on living in a country on the other end of the world is an easy decision to make, right? The koreans live there anyway, then go aborad to MLG for a weekend and come back home.
As a foreigner it's a huge commitmend to go there and additionally you pretty much give up playing in foreign (especially European) online tournaments.
Also plane tickets aren't handed out for free at the airport.
How does living in Korea equal to giving up on playing online tournaments? lol
I think the one thing most of people are forgetting is that GSL is not run by someone with a lot of money for his own pleasure or enjoyment, but rather it's a 100% business-oriented operation. If you are not a dedicated programmer, then you really don't belong in the GSL, period.
Secondly, you don't just come into Korea (for GSL) planning on only living for one month and take off. You have to invest yourself for the long term, like Jinro, Huk, and Haypro did, and work hard to get that goal you desire. Sometimes it pays off (see Huk), sometimes it's still on-going (Jinro) while other times it just doesn't work out (Haypro). Investing yourself in the long term will allow you to enjoy other online tournaments while your main focus is on the GSL.
Because eu servers are unplayable from korea? And even playing on na can be a gamble it seems.. The tl guys barely played any foreign tournaments from korea, and now they dont play in the eg masters thing
And all the other points you made... Sure i agree, but your previous post made it look as if it was an easy decision to make for a foreigner to live in korea for a single tournament
On May 18 2011 19:53 Tommylew wrote: yeh seems like moonglade is goign to give up on the super tournament to try qualifty for a code a spot though this tourney it seems.
yea he announced it on twitter a couple weeks ago.
But looking at player pool kinda makes you aware of the discrepancy between the races. Z looks pretty weak except July, Nestea and Losria. A couple more good tosses and so many monster terrans ^^. Too bad for HuK with a pvp in the first match. It isnt his strongest, then again it isnt Sans either.
Over all: Awesome by Gom again. Every new tournament format they put out seems so awesome.
Super excited for this! Too bad there's so many Terrans in this tournament. I literally stopped watching any TvT match ups just because there's so many Terran players in every tournament recently that I'm tired of watching that mirror match up. Oh well, I'll be rooting for HuK, Jinro and NesTea!
Since there are still some people who don't know about FOX_Moon. I'm gonna take the time to copy paste you his achievements and proof that hes a force to be reckoned with.
Fact 1:He is particularly known for his excellent micromanagement and innovative strategies. He is often seen using strategies that later set the benchmark for many Night Elf players and was nicknamed the "5th Race" by Gametv.com. a.k.a very entertaining gameplay.
Fact 2: Moon had signed a three-year contract with the Korean team WeMade FOX for $500,000 which made him the highest paid esports player at the time, a title which was previously held by Korean professional gamer NaDa a.k.a hes a total baller
Fact 3:2011 2nd Intel Extreme Masters World Championship ($6,500) 2010 1st NGL-One ($8,000) 2009 2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu ($2,500) 2009 1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final ($1,600) 2009 4th E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game ($800) 2009 3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational ($800) 2009 4th IEM3 Chengdu ($1,000 USD) 2008 1st IEF ($11,600 USD) 2008 4th ESL Continental Final Asia ($1,000 USD) 2008 2nd IeSF Invitational ($4,000 USD) 2008 2nd World Cyber Games (Germany) ($7,000 USD) 2008 3st NicegameTV War3 League Season1 (Korea) (￦2,000,000 := 1379USD) 2008 1st ESWC Masters of Paris ($2,500 USD) 2008 1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitational 2008 (Paris) $11000 USD 2008 2st PGL 2008 Warcraft III League Season3 Final (China) (40,000RMB := $5,794USD) 2008 4st NSL 2008 Warcraft III League Season2 2008 1st PGL 2007 Warcraft III League Season2 Final (China) (80,000RMB := $11,000USD) 2008 1st CEG 2007 shaoxing (China) ($2,000 EUR) 2007 3st IEF MASTERS 2007 (China) ($2,000 USD) 2007 2st Afreeca Warcraft League 2007 (South Korea) (￦3,000,000 := $3,000 USD) 2007 2st Make Games Colorful 2007 (China) ($5,000 USD) 2007 1st Lenovo IEST 2007 (China) ($21,394 USD) 2007 3rd World Cyber Games 2007 (USA) ($5,000 USD) 2007 1st GGL Digital Life New York (USA) ($5,000 USD) 2007 1st China E-Sport Games Xi'an (China) ($2,600 USD) 2007 1st GGL Digital Life Chengdu (China) ($10,600 USD) 2007 2nd WEG e-Star Seoul (South Korea) ($10,000 USD) 2007 1st MBCGame World War Grand Prix (South Korea) ($20,000 USD) 2007 2nd Pro Gaming League (China) ($4,000 USD) 2007 1st Dreamhack Summer 2007 (Sweden) ($2,850 USD) 2007 1st Battle.net Ladder Season V Asia (South Korea) ($1,000 USD) 2007 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD) 2007 1st World Series of Video Games China (China) ($5,000 USD) 2007 1st NSL (China) ($2,500 USD) 2007 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD) 2007 1st Game-X (Russia) ($38,120 USD) 2007 1st MBCGame World War I (South Korea) ($10,000 USD) 2006 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD) 2006 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD) 2006 1st Lenovo IEST 2006 (China) ($20,000 USD) 2006 1st Superfight 2 (South Korea) ($8,500 USD) 2006 1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA) ($5,000 USD) 2006 4th World E-Sport Games Masters (China) ($1,000 USD) 2005 1st World E-Sports Festival (China) 2005 1st International E-Sports Festival (China) 2005 1st China Korea Cyber Games (China) ($10,000 USD) 2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season I (South Korea) ($20,000 USD) 2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season II (South Korea) ($20,000 USD) 2005 1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (South Korea) 2005 2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (South Korea) 2005 1st MBCGame Prime League V (South Korea) 2004 9th World Cyber Games (USA) 2004 3rd World Cyber Games, Korea (South Korea) 2003 2nd MBCGame Prime League III (South Korea) 2003 1st MBCGame Prime League II (South Korea) a.k.a Your gonna need a calculator.
Fact 4: 2008 ESports Award eSports Player of the Year 2008 Esports Award Best Warcraft 3 Player 2008 ESports Award Korea Player of the Year 2007 KeSPA Greatest WarCraft III Player Award 2007 GGL Warcraft 3 Player of the Year 2006 KeSPA Greatest WarCraft III Player Award 2005 KeSPA Greatest WarCraft III Player Award
in warcraft 3 Moon is just an average (but potential) zerg in SC2. Im one of his day-one fan back then but tbh all the invitations he got are for his god status in wc3, not sc2 skill
in warcraft 3 Moon is just an average (but potential) zerg in SC2. Im one of his day-one fan back then but tbh all the invitations he got are for his god status in wc3, not sc2 skill
Don't underestimate his SC2 skill...he may surprise you.
On May 18 2011 16:42 Krogan wrote: Well will this tournament take a month to complete as well? Because MLG is a weekend so the $ per hour spent is WAY more then a month long GSL where you can't really compete elsewhere. Moonglade took 4th at IEM if he does at MLG he gets into code a, that is just smart thinking by him as its well known that its harder to get into code a then into code s.
Maybe. GSL is a month long and it happens almost every single month. But how many MLGs do you have every month? 3 or 4?
Yes. average $ per hour = $ / time. But what is the ''time'' for MLG? You only have a few MLGs in one year. '' the prize money of a few MLGs combined / one year'' << '' the prize money of a MLG / one week''.
There are so few foreigners in GSL S. because it's so hard for foreigners to get deeper into the tournament, NOT because its prize money is not high enough. Imagine If you have more skills than MVP or MC, would you give up the opportunity to win $90 K and play in $5k MLG instead?
I'm pretty excited about the format, it's sad to see so few foreigners, but it's good to see so many great non-code S koreans; I feel that the Code A/S system keeps old blood too long, especially considering how quickly the game is evovling still.
It'll be sick when Alicia manages to win the whole thing
On May 19 2011 02:07 Meteora.GB wrote: I think the GSL needs to spread the prizepool more evenly to encourage foreigners to compete over at the GSL. Its too top heavy at the moment.
I disagree. I love top-heavy payouts. No coddling, the best of the best play for the huge cash. I personally feel like that's how it should stay. If the foreigners want it, they should train harder.
Since there are still some people who don't know about FOX_Moon. I'm gonna take the time to copy paste you his achievements and proof that hes a force to be reckoned with.
Hes pure epicness...
I don't think anyone doubts his excellent reputation in WC3. He's obviously a beast in that game! SC2 is a completely different animal though, economy management is different. Unit control and army compositions. General game pace. Just because someone was a great, hell even legendary, WC3 player doesn't mean they're good at SC2.
It's clear that Moon has the potential to do well and obviously has a great base to work from and has already competed with some of the top players in the GSL. After comparing him to players like NesTea, Losira and July though he's not really on their level, at least not yet.
Who knows maybe he'll emerge as a dominant Zerg force in the coming tournaments but as of right now I don't think he's a true contender in SC2.
The fact that there are so few foreigners really defeats the point of this Now that Jinro is Code A, my interest in GSL in general is starting to drop a little. I love having someone to really root for
On May 19 2011 05:36 BoxersGosuGarden wrote: IMNestea... quietly gonna be champ. GSL May no one believed in you at first either.
What the hell are you on about? Nestea is widely recognized as the best zerg in the world, I bet shit a lot of people believed in him to take the whole tournament. At least I have since the very first game I saw him play way back in GSL season 2.
Go go TL players represt since you guys are the only ones playing lol good luck to you guys hope you make it far or it be cool if huk and Jinro finals hehe
On May 18 2011 03:48 VeryAverage wrote: Reading a lot of the comments of the playXP post.
Mucho complaining about the large majority of Terran/questioning why more foreigners are not participating from what my rudimentary Korean can take out of it.
I think the large amount terrans is the bigger issue.
On May 19 2011 07:12 dunc wrote: I'm pretty sure everyone knew Nestea would win the second MarineKing and MC got knocked out.
On May 19 2011 06:14 namste wrote: What the hell are you on about? Nestea is widely recognized as the best zerg in the world, I bet shit a lot of people believed in him to take the whole tournament. At least I have since the very first game I saw him play way back in GSL season 2.
Yeah but no one said anything before Ro32 results. I feel like MC and mvp get more hype than Nestea even if they have one sided matches. Even now people go on about other zergs like DRG.
Well... Team Liquid fighting! That's quite a unique achievement for the team, as foreigners. Although it's a pity that those other qualified foreign players can't get the proper sponsorship to participate.. but understandable with these odds. Gom should probably do something about that, since with the MLG exchange they indicate they'd like to have more foreigners.
Jinro with an all zerg group, I feel that's pretty good for him. Would be better if it was an all terran group, but at least isn't an all protoss group for Jinro.
I like it also because Jinro only needs to practice for one match. JINRO FIGHTING!
On May 19 2011 12:06 Kappa09 wrote: Jinro with an all zerg group, I feel that's pretty good for him. Would be better if it was an all terran group, but at least isn't an all protoss group for Jinro.
I like it also because Jinro only needs to practice for one match. JINRO FIGHTING!
I think you're misreading the brackets.. it's a Ro64 single elimination bracket, not a group format.
On May 17 2011 23:03 Morale wrote: Was it because the foreign players declined or? Did u change the amount of points u got from World Championship?
it's just not worth while enough for most foreign players to live in korea for a month at the risk of getting nothing out of it. With how top heavy the pay outs are it's easier to earn income state side or in europe. Could change in the future but right now korea's got gsl for sc2 and that's about it.
People needs to wake up. Foreigners stood no chance against Korean. Did you see the result in World Championship? Only Dimaga won against Nestea. The rest of the foreigner did not stand a chance.
Too bad we only have 2 foreigners but I rly like this supertournament. Having 1 big tournament instead of 2. Now you can have some real upsets and let these up and coming players showing what they are made of!
Damned, disappointing that DRG didn't make it. Now we will have to wait till Code A May to see him play, and he might get knocked out in the prelims...
My thoughts each group: Group A - Lots of good Terrans in this group, plus MVP. No one else truly terrifying. Group B - The group of dashed hopes and disappointments. GSL runner-ups, legends past their prime, solid players who always disappoint... I'll be real interested to see who comes outta here. Group C - Tragic Ro64 PvP matchups. Top half of the bracket should belong to MC. Bottom bracket will be interesting. sC probably makes Ro16 based purely on his TvT. Group D - Jinro could go pretty far here. NaDa as well. Likely NesTea vs. Bomber in Ro32, winner of that will be in a good spot.
Group B - The group of dashed hopes and disappointments. GSL runner-ups, legends past their prime, solid players who always disappoint... I'll be real interested to see who comes outta here.
That's the best description I've heard for Group B thus far.
Hope FruitDealer's got this one, but man. Ace in the first round. Hope FD's been brushing up on his ZvP lately. @___@
Just out of curiousity, did IdrA decline or was he not invited?
On May 20 2011 08:48 babylon wrote:Hope FruitDealer's got this one, but man. Ace in the first round. Hope FD's been brushing up on his ZvP lately. @___@
I know, right! Who knows, maybe he'll "suprise" us with some "safe" play a la Nestea?
Whew only 2 foreigners, finally get to see good games. I do not really understand this tournament, it is technically ALMOST Code A and Code S combined into one tournament. Hope SlayerS and oGs do well in this tournament! (especially oGs)
EPT![[image loading]](http://pds18.egloos.com/pds/201105/17/41/b0149741_4dd284da3bdfe.jpg)
MVP, 
MarineKing, 
KiLLeR, ![[image loading]](http://img.gomtv.net/imgdata/28634.png)
