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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On May 18 2011 03:58 DirtYLOu wrote: Don't they have a spot on GOM foreigner house? and Aren't the players in Teams? Team can't cover expanses of food? For me it's amateur acts that foreigners show. Its not bw scene, its sc2 scene, players can make resonable money without leaving everything behind. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On May 18 2011 05:01 Kazeyonoma wrote: Korean tournaments are always spaced out because they believe that giving th eplayers ample time to build strategies against their opponents and the maps they'll be on are more important than having to throw a person through 21 best of 3's in 3 days time. Get real, it's a different format, and that's how Korea has ALWAYS run it and I like it because it means the harder working harder practiced player will often yield the better result. Look at the fucking MSL for christ sake, they play 1 set out each WEEK. out of a best of 7. I mean, fine if people want easy money by staying wherever they can, that's their perogative, but if they want the prestige of making it where the big boys play, they'll need to go to Korea and try their hand there. If the foreigners were as good as they claim they are (and some are legitimately good) they should have no fear about making it deep into the tournament and making a decent amount of cash from it. It's all just about risk vs reward, if people think the reward isn't worth it, than fine, but stop blaming GSL for this, this is the players choice. The problem is that GSL tried to copy the OSL and MSL model without the infrastructure. Players can afford to be in a tournament that takes several weeks because 1) there are two individual leagues and a team league and 2) it's easier to live off of just 3 leagues because at least one of these leagues is always going on and you're still getting some money/a house/good practice partners/living expenses paid/etc. For foreigners and the GSL, they can maybe get a flight out there, get into the foreign house, and maybe get some living expenses paid, but they get to participate in only one tournament (and maybe some online ones if they want to sacrifice their sleep schedule/deal with any potential lag issues) while having to face an extremely different culture, language, and timezone, along with not having many good practice partners. | ||
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On May 18 2011 04:56 s4life wrote: Compare to MLG which lasts three days, DH 5, IEM 5 days, GSL takes an eternity. There is something obviously wrong with the way GSL has scheduled their tournaments. I believe they did the wrond thing trying to copy MSL and OSL... SC2 is a much more dynamic scene than BW nowadays. And of course, it would obviously not seem a huge deal to you, coz you are not playing in NASL, IPL, DH and plenty of other western online tournaments. and you forget that GSL pays the highest of those, and you will be paid very well if you place high. So time invested is compensated if you place high. Meanwhile, some of those tournaments they are able to compete in conjunction with GSL. | ||
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
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McKTenor13
United States1383 Posts
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xxxxxxb
155 Posts
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DoomsVille
Canada4885 Posts
Think about it this way, the finals, semifinals and maybe even parts of the quarterfinals will be played in the last week. So this is the timeline for foreigners. Go to Korea and compete up to the quarterfinals. Travel to MLG to compete. Return to Korea for later rounds. If they do this, they spend thousands of dollars on flights from europe --> korea --> usa --> korea --> europe. Let's not forget the money they have to spend on accomodations, food etc. while in usa and whatever GOM doesn't provide while in korea. They spend more on flights than can be won in prize money unless they make the semifinals of the super tournament. On the other hand, if they are eliminated before the quarterfinals, is it really worth the money to go? You spend a couple of weeks in korea and win at most $2000 (which basically covers the flights). Or you could stay in europe/usa, compete in online cups, do well in NASL/IPL qualifiers and end up with more money. So basically, going there and being eliminated early is a huge waste of money. Going there and making it to the quarterfinals is a huge waste of money. Realistically, they'd have to make it to the semifinals (at least) to make this a worthwhile investment. I mean if GSL just cut the first prize by $20,000 and spread that out among everyone else there would be so much more incentive for foreigners to go. But as it is, it just makes no sense financially to go unless you are nearly certain you can make the semifinals. And how the hell can anyone be certain? Anyone can be eliminated at any point of the tournament. Even the best players in the world can be randomly eliminated in the early rounds... it happens. The reason so many foreigners were willing to go to the WC (and sponsors were willing to pay for it) is that it was a much shorter tournament and there was a bunch more guaranteed money. I strongly encourage GOM to rethink their prize distribution for future tournaments. This sort of distribution will never work for foreigners. Not with all of the millions of online cups/foreign tournaments going on. | ||
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rycho
United States360 Posts
i really look forward to all their events and this might be the best one yet ^_^ | ||
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On May 18 2011 05:01 Kazeyonoma wrote: Korean tournaments are always spaced out because they believe that giving th eplayers ample time to build strategies against their opponents and the maps they'll be on are more important than having to throw a person through 21 best of 3's in 3 days time. Get real, it's a different format, and that's how Korea has ALWAYS run it and I like it because it means the harder working harder practiced player will often yield the better result. Look at the fucking MSL for christ sake, they play 1 set out each WEEK. out of a best of 7. I mean, fine if people want easy money by staying wherever they can, that's their perogative, but if they want the prestige of making it where the big boys play, they'll need to go to Korea and try their hand there. If the foreigners were as good as they claim they are (and some are legitimately good) they should have no fear about making it deep into the tournament and making a decent amount of cash from it. It's all just about risk vs reward, if people think the reward isn't worth it, than fine, but stop blaming GSL for this, this is the players choice. Nope, IMHO SC tournaments like MSL and OSL are spaced out because 1) pro players would have nowhere else to play if the tournaments lasted a week. 2) It's more profitable to do it that way - rather than having plenty of small tournaments with little money each. That's not the situation with SC2 at all.. you have a huge up-and-coming western scene in which korean server players are mostly missing out on. | ||
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AWakefield
Canada420 Posts
That said I'm really excited to watch this. | ||
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On May 18 2011 05:10 illsick wrote: and you forget that GSL pays the highest of those, and you will be paid very well if you place high. So time invested is compensated if you place high. Meanwhile, some of those tournaments they are able to compete in conjunction with GSL. I didn't forget, GSL is copying the BW model, step by step, I said this, i.e. offering huge prizes in pretty long tournaments. Problem is in SC2 there is thriving foreign community with as many opportunities to make money as GSL -- if not more -- which was absent in BW. Obviously the guys organizing GSL completely underestimated the growth of e-sports in the west and thought players outside of Korea would be begging to be invited to the GSL.. which turns out, was pretty off-the-mark. | ||
Adebisi
Canada1637 Posts
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On May 18 2011 05:41 s4life wrote: I didn't forget, GSL is copying the BW model, step by step, I said this, i.e. offering huge prizes in pretty long tournaments. Problem is in SC2 there is thriving foreign community with as many opportunities to make money as GSL -- if not more -- which was absent in BW. Obviously the guys organizing GSL completely underestimated the growth of e-sports in the west and thought players outside of Korea would be begging to be invited to the GSL.. which turns out, was pretty off-the-mark. If you didn't forget, then why are you comparing if you know that GSL pays the highest but also requires you to commit more? they are televising the GSL, you think they should mimic the MLG format? where it's a 3 day tournament for first place of $5k. They can't show 3 days worth of material and then wait 2-3 more months for 2-3 day tournament of material again. Or if they do like a tournament every weekend for like $10k, it would get pretty stale. It's not underestimating anything, they just want the best players whether it be foreigners or not. If you are the best, you can potentially make the most out of GSL. If foreigners are on equal level as Koreans then they can make money from GSL as well. As it stands, if MC (or even Nestea) wins this super tournament, he will have earned $250k this year. Which progamer wouldn't want to earn that much? One year of playing outside of Korea won't net you that much. Maybe foreigners feel that Korean level is too high and it's easier to make money by not devoting time in Korea. | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
This format may be good for FPS games, but not RTS. Anyway, the competition will definitely not become healthier with this kind of format. Let's be honest, you can't run a proper sc2 tournament if it takes place in the span of 3 days. There's a reason why GOMTV tries to mimic BW tournament formats, that's because their the BEST format when it comes to competitive RTS. Don't blame GomTV for their organization, blame the players for their lack of dedication. | ||
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Nerdslayer
Denmark1130 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:50 AlBundy wrote: I don't get why people like the MLG format. These 3 days are wayy too stacked and are not a good environment for specators and progamers. Organizers cannot broadcast all the games, and players cannot prepare for specific matchups or opponents. Players have to play tons of games in a short time, just like naniwa who went 23-2 by 4-gating every opponent. This format may be good for FPS games, but not RTS. Anyway, the competition will definitely not become healthier with this kind of format. Let's be honest, you can't run a proper sc2 tournament if it takes place in the span of 3 days. There's a reason why GOMTV tries to mimic BW tournament formats, that's because their the BEST format when it comes to competitive RTS. Don't blame GomTV for their organization, blame the players for their lack of dedication. What are you talking about the MLG format is perfect becuase it provide alot of entertainment for the fans in a very short timespan.. Also for the players winning an MLG type format tournament means you have to be really good in overall. You cant just practise vs 1 build or against the opponent you know you facing that means more exciting matches. The GSL type format you got time to prepare and studie you opponent the MLG type format you need to be good in all aspect of the game in all matchups. And as a fan I much more prefer watching MLG/Dreamhack format tournament simply becuase you dont have to wait a long time to find out who is the best. Its action nonestop. | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:50 AlBundy wrote: I don't get why people like the MLG format. These 3 days are wayy too stacked and are not a good environment for specators and progamers. Organizers cannot broadcast all the games, and players cannot prepare for specific matchups or opponents. Players have to play tons of games in a short time, just like naniwa who went 23-2 by 4-gating every opponent. This format may be good for FPS games, but not RTS. Anyway, the competition will definitely not become healthier with this kind of format. Let's be honest, you can't run a proper sc2 tournament if it takes place in the span of 3 days. There's a reason why GOMTV tries to mimic BW tournament formats, that's because their the BEST format when it comes to competitive RTS. Don't blame GomTV for their organization, blame the players for their lack of dedication. Agreed, between the lack of player dedication and not having enough faith in themselves (skill?) is what i blame for them not showing up. If they thought they could do well it would be totally worth going obviously, if they get top 4 or even 8 its more than they are going to make from winning any other tournament going on right now save from NASL in a few months wich top koreans are participating in anyways. GSL is by far the best tournament out there right now, and no tournament is going to even come close to their production value for a long time to come. These players that declined invitations will go to MLG and dreamhack and likely not place well and realise they missed out on a solid opportunity. At least for MLG the players who were invited to the super tournament who declined except maybe TT1 all will be in the open bracket of the tournament meaning the chances of them winning are exceptionally lower than even the super tournament, add to the fact that koreans will also be participating at MLG (the same ones in the super tournament) and suddenly they are choosing MLG with a 20th of the prize pool for less of a chance to win then the super tournament. Doesnt make much sense to me, and if your on a half decent team shouldnt they be paying for your air fare anyways, especially considering how much exposure the team will get by participating in the super tournament (and their sponsors of course) so the burden shouldnt even be on the player. | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:57 Nerdslayer wrote: What are you talking about the MLG format is perfect becuase it provide alot of entertainment for the fans in a very short timespan.. Also for the players winning an MLG type format tournament means you have to be really good in overall. You cant just practise vs 1 build or against the opponent you know you facing that means more exciting matches. The GSL type format you got time to prepare and studie you opponent the MLG type format you need to be good in all aspect of the game in all matchups. And as a fan I much more prefer watching MLG/Dreamhack format tournament simply becuase you dont have to wait a long time to find out who is the best. Its action nonestop. Each has it's pros and cons but the way GSL is setup is best for television. It's pretty hardcore for people to watch 2-3 days straight and watching for however many hours they can cram in those days. Whereas GSL, matchups are known ahead of time and people will know what time to tune in to watch their favorite player. | ||
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:27 illsick wrote: If you didn't forget, then why are you comparing if you know that GSL pays the highest but also requires you to commit more? they are televising the GSL, you think they should mimic the MLG format? where it's a 3 day tournament for first place of $5k. They can't show 3 days worth of material and then wait 2-3 more months for 2-3 day tournament of material again. Or if they do like a tournament every weekend for like $10k, it would get pretty stale. It's not underestimating anything, they just want the best players whether it be foreigners or not. If you are the best, you can potentially make the most out of GSL. If foreigners are on equal level as Koreans then they can make money from GSL as well. As it stands, if MC (or even Nestea) wins this super tournament, he will have earned $250k this year. Which progamer wouldn't want to earn that much? One year of playing outside of Korea won't net you that much. Maybe foreigners feel that Korean level is too high and it's easier to make money by not devoting time in Korea. I really don't know to respond to all the stuff you wrote, you didn't address a single argument of mine, but you win anway. The way they go, GSL won't last another year though.. it's pretty much blizzard carrying the water right now, but once the foreign pro scene gets bigger than korea by a significant margin -- and trust me, it will -- korea won't seem as important to blizzard anymore. | ||
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Cyanocyst
2222 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:08 Adebisi wrote: GSL kinda cut their own neck in a way, going to MLG can get you a seed directly to code S, so if your interest is even in GSL, you're better off going to MLG, oh well, both MLG and GSL SuperTourney gonna be sick :D Code A not Code S. Unless the exchange program has been revised in the last few days. | ||
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