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On July 03 2012 21:37 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 20:47 Darneck wrote:On July 03 2012 20:45 Sated wrote:On July 03 2012 20:12 Garmer wrote:On July 03 2012 19:59 CrtBalorda wrote:On July 03 2012 18:55 Bommes wrote:
Uploaded "Daybreak Dynamic Movement" on the EU server for everyone who wants to try it out. dafag?! Is that a troll post, I tried it and it doesnt change anything. tries to separate your army and then move out, you will see the difference On July 03 2012 19:08 papaz wrote:
Nah, I actually like the deathball. Now all of you that wants more micro in SC2 suddenly wants to remove army splitting in battle?
Use your imba apm and get an advantage over us that can't marine split vs banelings. no, now you can use your APM to make the death ball, instead of having the Ai doing it for you Or you can use your APM to split your units, instead of having the AI do it for you. Herpderp. The AI doesn't split it for you, it only helps you keep it split with this while at the moment it clumps up again in a single command. And this would come with an AOE buff as well so you'd have to keep using APM and make sure to still keep them split Keeping your army split after having to split it once reduces the amount of APM required to do something favourable: If you're not making sure you keep split against AoE with the current system then you're doing something wrong. This change accomplishes nothing. Players who are actually good are capable of splitting their units and keeping them split when it matters, they don't need the AI to do it for them. Players who aren't good have nothing to complain about, they just have to get better (like most other things with this game). If you're having problems keeping your units split, here is a pro-tip: magic-boxing works for ground units as well.
Considering the AOE radius for spells would be increased too you would still have to split the same amount in the end since you'd have to split even more after that.
This isn't just an issue about splitting and aoe. It helps with so much more else, Weerwolf's post brings up a lot of the good points.
And magic boxing for ground is nothing like this
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I want this > NOW!
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That is not even close to what the OP means...
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I remember the kespa pros were saying that battles ended way too fast, and it's almost impossible to come back from one bad mistake. I agree with Weerwolf, and I do agree also that there will be a need for balance with AOE stuff, but over all it will help mitigate the damage inflicted on each army. Even if you do split everything before hand, the current unit clumping is still a hinderance. For example zerglings: Sure you can spread them out before an engagement and get an awesome concave, but sometimes you'd still need to spread them out some more as some lings will try to shove their way in between a pair of lings already attacking, instead of simply just running around. Now for ranged units it's not so bad to take another second or two and drag some stuff from the back to the sides because they'll eventually be in range to shoot something anyway, but for melee units like ultras, lings, and zealots, that extra second where the unit decides to be a dragoon is a loss in dps.
Another thing about this kind of movement is that it forces the player to actually place their spells in good areas. For example with forcefield: to actually make the most out of forcefield, you'd need to place it in a good area. As of now you can approximate your forcfields splitting the army so that maybe 3/4 or 1/2 the army is behind the line of forcefield so you can decimate the 1/4 or 1/2 that is in range to attack your army. But with this kind of unit movement you'd only get a handful of units if you're just throwing forcefields willy-nillly. I'd rather lose 5-10 units and retreat with the bulk of my army, than have lag, delay, or get caught off gaurd make me lose a chunk of units.
What this also allows is for units that deal AOE damage to be positioned better, basically the same principle as the above paragraph, but now you'd be able to see BW-esque tank lines, collosi will need to be microed some so that they shoot a chunks of units and not a thin line of marines.
Overall I'd be a good idea to see this, but of course it would force a huge retweeking of units.
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No good, this makes skills like fungal, emp and storms not as effective. Less micro to dodge such which is bad for the game skillcap no?
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On July 04 2012 22:30 Sableyeah wrote:
No good, this makes skills like fungal, emp and storms not as effective. Less micro to dodge such which is bad for the game skillcap no?
Radius of those skills would be increased which means that addiotional further splitting would be required and it would also add several other things to the game.
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Yeah I have to agree that this is the proper way to go.
This implements Modified Movement and more. This is the proper step needed to be taken if we want the game to truly be good.
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On July 04 2012 22:30 Sableyeah wrote:
No good, this makes skills like fungal, emp and storms not as effective. Less micro to dodge such which is bad for the game skillcap no?
There are a few threads similar to this one, and I think this response has been given a few dozen times in each.
Yes, it weakens AoE.
That's what AoE buffs are for.
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Are their any videos of this? Where can you find the map?
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All this does is make it easier for terran to hold banelings ha. This is also apart of the game. I mean If starcraft 2 wouldn't have that kind of movement it wouldn't be the same game. It's skill requierd to split units for all races.
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If your reading this Blizzard, please dont. Please dont dumb the game down any further. If you change the movement, you will have to completely re-balance the game. You might not even be able to re-balance it.
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On July 07 2012 00:57 treekiller wrote:
If your reading this Blizzard, please dont. Please dont dumb the game down any further. If you change the movement, you will have to completely re-balance the game. You might not even be able to re-balance it.
If you're reading this Blizzard, please do. Please attempt to change the game to make every part of it more interesting to both players and spectators. We have a great opportunity with HOTS to make some changes to the core mechanics of the game. I hope you take the time to try some of these suggestions out.
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On July 07 2012 00:57 treekiller wrote:
If your reading this Blizzard, please dont. Please dont dumb the game down any further. If you change the movement, you will have to completely re-balance the game. You might not even be able to re-balance it.
Lol this gave me a good laugh or two.
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On July 05 2012 13:58 LavaLava wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 22:30 Sableyeah wrote:
No good, this makes skills like fungal, emp and storms not as effective. Less micro to dodge such which is bad for the game skillcap no? There are a few threads similar to this one, and I think this response has been given a few dozen times in each. Yes, it weakens AoE. That's what AoE buffs are for.
Except when those AoE buffs then are used on mineral lines that didn't benefit from increased spacing.
Except when those AoE buffs are used on units that are walking down a ramp or through a tight area.
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On July 07 2012 01:32 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 13:58 LavaLava wrote:On July 04 2012 22:30 Sableyeah wrote:
No good, this makes skills like fungal, emp and storms not as effective. Less micro to dodge such which is bad for the game skillcap no? There are a few threads similar to this one, and I think this response has been given a few dozen times in each. Yes, it weakens AoE. That's what AoE buffs are for. Except when those AoE buffs then are used on mineral lines that didn't benefit from increased spacing. Except when those AoE buffs are used on units that are walking down a ramp or through a tight area.
That's why it increases skill level....
Its completely your fault for not looking at the minimap to catch the Warp Prism coming to your base.
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People say that this change will reduce APM and that it reduces the skill needed to play the game. Well, maybe, but as it is right now, if you compare, this AI actually SCREWS UP your work every time again. That is the reason why it takes more APM and skill as it is right now. It's like the system changes your rally point and you always have to set it back or it won't work. You set it once already, and the AI is making fun of you.
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On July 07 2012 00:57 treekiller wrote:
If your reading this Blizzard, please dont. Please dont dumb the game down any further. If you change the movement, you will have to completely re-balance the game. You might not even be able to re-balance it.
You're not thinking this through fuully, eh? Blizzard will have to COMPLETELY REBALANCE the game anyways with HotS and the new units (which particularly kill/neutralize Siege Tanks and other expensive units for example) that will be added to (and removed from) the game.
One small hint: In BW several units were "completely OP" ... AoE units like Siege Tanks, Psi Storm, Defiler Swarm, but it didnt matter simply because there was no chance to get "all your units" in a small enough area to be affected by one or two applications of those effects. If you reintroduce some method to stay apart you could also reintroduce that "OPness" and consequently have less problems with balancing of the game ... because minimizing the effects of the OP AoE effects would lie in the hands of the player again. As it is now they cant really counteract the "clumping up stupidity"-movement effects (I am thinking about a horde of Zerglings charging a line of Siege Tanks).
Personally I would think such a change would make the game more exciting by adding strategic element through the increased defensive AoE capabilities again. Zerg would kinda need a cheap and auto-aimed AoE unit though ... as well as Protoss (Colossi have too good movement capabilities and shouldnt get better damage and High Templars are a "battle AoE unit" as well which cant have too much increase in AoE effect either).
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Blizzard please change this for the expansion. Thanks.
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EPT
