EPTI really tried getting into this game but the 15 minute preperation for 20 seconds of action, which usually is just everything dying to aoe, gets boring really quickly. I find myself logging off after 3-4 ladder games due to boredom. Yes you can debate harassment but these aren't real fronts where you're fighting; you're just trying to slow down their massing so you have a bigger army.
Dynamic Unit Movements, Your Thoughts? - Page 13
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Razith
Canada431 Posts
I really tried getting into this game but the 15 minute preperation for 20 seconds of action, which usually is just everything dying to aoe, gets boring really quickly. I find myself logging off after 3-4 ladder games due to boredom. Yes you can debate harassment but these aren't real fronts where you're fighting; you're just trying to slow down their massing so you have a bigger army. | ||
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Thorxes
United States119 Posts
I thought you had an option of at least 3 kinds of formations on the left side around the minimap to choose from. So you could choose to have your units clump, or spread out or even get in rank and files as they moved. Maybe it wasn't WC3 but I swear I've seen this somewhere. I think it would add the versatility of being able to choose what unit formation you want. Sometimes clumping is a good thing.....like if you're harrassing with mutas and trying to find just the right spot in a mineral line where you don't take turret fire. But then you could change that groups formation is you're going to engage thors. | ||
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Mr.Pyro
Denmark959 Posts
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
On May 18 2011 00:44 Thorxes wrote: Didn't WC3 have the option to set up certain formations? I thought you had an option of at least 3 kinds of formations on the left side around the minimap to choose from. So you could choose to have your units clump, or spread out or even get in rank and files as they moved. Maybe it wasn't WC3 but I swear I've seen this somewhere. I think it would add the versatility of being able to choose what unit formation you want. Sometimes clumping is a good thing.....like if you're harrassing with mutas and trying to find just the right spot in a mineral line where you don't take turret fire. But then you could change that groups formation is you're going to engage thors. WC3 had this feature and it was to first to be turned off by every player. Also there was only one formation iirc. Reason why it sucked: to maintain formation, everything moves as slow as the slowest unit to maintain the formation. Needs a change or no one would ever use it in sc2 anway. | ||
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
At any rate, that was my idea for RTS pathing now that the old spreading effect isn't still in play. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
On May 18 2011 00:43 Razith wrote: I am honestly losing interest in this game because everything just dies in seconds. The one big engagement that took 15 minutes to get to for maybe 20 seconds of fighting is really lame. I've stopped paying for GSL seasons too (have bought every season up until now). I really tried getting into this game but the 15 minute preperation for 20 seconds of action, which usually is just everything dying to aoe, gets boring really quickly. I find myself logging off after 3-4 ladder games due to boredom. Yes you can debate harassment but these aren't real fronts where you're fighting; you're just trying to slow down their massing so you have a bigger army. The pathfinding and unit clumping has had so many secondary effects it's not even funny. a) Ranged unit "group" DPS becomes ridiculous when they can pack together so tightly. There's a word I'm looking for here, and it rhymes with "arine." b) AOE becomes too powerful. Look how every AOE ability in the game has been nerfed into the ground. c) Massive battles are messy, chaotic, inelegant, and difficult to follow. Units die so fast you can't tell what's going on. The "dance" of the two armies is muted, and attack move is dominant. d) The power of the One Big Army is so great that it almost never pays to split up your force. Hence both players each have their huge Death Ball and spend the game maneuvering it around. Oh, how I wish for a game where there was an advantage to strategically placing units all over the map. e) There is no room for units to move to the right place. Ultras always get stuck behind lings, immortals never get to the front to tank seige shots, and archons just spin in circles and die. | ||
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Thorxes
United States119 Posts
On May 18 2011 00:50 Mafe wrote: WC3 had this feature and it was to first to be turned off by every player. Also there was only one formation iirc. Reason why it sucked: to maintain formation, everything moves as slow as the slowest unit to maintain the formation. Needs a change or no one would ever use it in sc2 anway. Wouldn't you sometimes want units to move at the same speed as the slowest unit? If you don't, then set up a separate control group, which people do now anyways. So your infestors wont run up ahead of your army....which should be a little better with the recent patch. Your stalkers won't go to the front of your army. But if you wanted your lings to run up or around somewhere to flank....you jsut set them up in thier own control group adn they can move freely. Also, just because if may have not worked well in WC3, it doesn't mean that they can't fix it and make it better. That's the whole point of the discussion anyways....to make the game better. You can always look back at old tools/functions and improve them for use in other areas. It seems like it's definitely worth trying out, and a lot of people seem excited about this kind of idea. I think it should be looked into and tested at least. At the very least, maybe a confirmation from Blizzard that they're aware of the communities idea and that they'll look into it. I don't mind if they come back and say...."yes, we considered that, but have found the following X issues and have decided not to do that." I just hate when such a great idea is thrown out there, and no acknowledgement is ever sent back. Kind of like asking a girl out....and instead of her saying no....she just sits there and looks at you...I'd rather her just say No so I can go on about my day. | ||
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
I don't think that it would be too hard balancing it out good either. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
That said, the rebalancing that would be needed means this can wait until HOTS. Blizzard is going to have to rebalance the entire game anyway to accommodate the 1-2 additional units and what other additional spells/abilities they add. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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Pgbz
Canada55 Posts
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On May 18 2011 01:06 Yaotzin wrote: Why do people say clumping is "unrealistic"? Any army tries to be compact... Naturally. I mean, you wouldn't want inaccurate enemy fire to have a chance of missing, would you? | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
On May 18 2011 01:06 Yaotzin wrote: Why do people say clumping is "unrealistic"? Any army tries to be compact... haha what ? If an army came towards my army clumped like that, I'd send my troops home and throw a grenade. | ||
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
On May 18 2011 01:02 Yaotzin wrote: I find it kind of amusing that the same people who complain about SC2's skill cap, now want to remove micro from the game by automatically giving you a near optimum formation. How so? Keep in mind that a change like this would require an AoE buff, so unit relationships when it comes to AoE spells would be the same. What a change like this will do is actually add micro when it comes to ranged units. The current SC2 pathing automatically keeps ranged units in the ideal position (small surface area), which makes them far more devastating against melee units than they ever were in SC2. Implementing more spread out units means that melee units can actually stand a good chance against ranged units if they are ever caught out of position. It will also add more micro to range vs. range battles because more spread out units means that players will have to pay more attention to position their units in a concave. So a change like this actually adds micro, not less. | ||
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
 But i agree that it would be a big plus for the game, you could make the aoe bigger so you would still have to micro your marines | ||
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thedrummah
Sweden3 Posts
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EZmark
Canada31 Posts
People are saying it isnt realisitic that units are clumped up well moving... well there arent to many realisitic aspects of SC2... You all want to game to be harder and more dynamic and require that extra little something at the highest level... which we have. Unit control ie splitting, spreading etc etc is an important part of the game... a bad player who doesnt split his marines when infestors or banelings are out will lose... nuff said. Now with this proposed fix no splitting is required LOL my units move spread out... what would be the point in that ? Are we trying to make the game easier ? | ||
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Xadar
497 Posts
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