EPTDynamic Unit Movements, Your Thoughts? - Page 10
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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mardi
United States1164 Posts
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mell0w
United States102 Posts
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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kuroshiro
United Kingdom378 Posts
If you can scatter your units about using the standard 'patrol' technique or simply manually then blizzard could just add a 'move in current formation' button in order to simulate the effect. I know that's some pretty extreme hand-holding but it's more or less in line with what they've been doing so far (i.e. making a complicated technique into something anyone can do). My main concern about this idea would be that it could over-complicate the interface to have a toggle over formation/not-formation movement. | ||
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Darkstar_X
United States197 Posts
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FlaminGinjaNinja
United Kingdom879 Posts
While this would be brilliant to implement i don't think it will happen (though id love to be proved wrong). It will most of the players and making watching games much more enjoyable but Blizzard tend to look at the top level of play before anything else when it comes to changing something in the game | ||
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Morphs
Netherlands645 Posts
However, SC2 is currently designed around the tight ball-thing. Imagine 100 zerglings running around spread out. I can't imagine what a runby into someones base would be liek. | ||
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Naphal
Germany2099 Posts
ofc we would need a buff for the splash units, because for example marines are split by default, and somehow i feel the zergling would have too much surface area ( you could run them between the units, which would make nearly any composition apart from pure zealot melt) | ||
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Horse...falcon
United States1851 Posts
Watch this part at 1 minute 6 seconds. Doesn't that battle look so much more epic than most of the battles in SC2? Brood war felt so much larger in scope. That's one of the most disappointing parts of the single player too, everything seems shrunk down and squeezed together to a miniature scale. :edit: To be fair there's probably 300 food worth of zerg in that clip. The game would be very very different if units did not naturally clump together. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Highways
Australia6111 Posts
Maybe for Heart of the Swarm. | ||
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LastWish
2015 Posts
It would make definitely everything better, the sooner they implement it the better. | ||
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Creationism
China505 Posts
On May 17 2011 17:20 Horse...falcon wrote: This is something I've thought about too since rewatching the original Zerg reveal trailer Watch this part at 1 minute 6 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrndTcwWgYo#t=01m06s Doesn't that battle look so much more epic than most of the battles in SC2? Brood war felt so much larger in scope. That's one of the most disappointing parts of the single player too, everything seems shrunk down and squeezed together to a miniature scale. :edit: To be fair there's probably 300 food worth of zerg in that clip. The game would be very very different if units did not naturally clump together. That video hit the nail on the head. It really sums up why SC2 is just not as big a visual treat as it seemed to be back when we were getting sneak peaks. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
If you watch SCBW games, units don't push each other around, so the space around each unit is always changning, and this results in a dynamic movement. If you only move with one control group, units show the same dynamic movement. There's nothing more "dynamic" with this than with SC2's standard pathing. Neither is more "dynamic" than the other. 1. (the most important) Unit movements become more dynamic. Even if you hotkey them separately, those small groups will move like a clump of jelly anyways. It doesn't look natural, and your army looks smaller than it actually is. No, having them spread out makes your army look bigger than it actually is. Your army is the size of their collective collision area. No more, no less. Everything else here is a value judgement. 2. It's easier to tell the difference between units. SCBW is in 2-d and it uses less colours, while SC2 is 3-d and uses a variety of colours. So it's easier to differentiate units in SCBW. You can tell this by playing SC2 in the lowest graphic settings. The lowest graphic setting allows you to tell the difference between units and the difference between units and map tiles much more effectively. You seem to be sabotaging your own argument. You say that the lowest graphics setting makes it easier to see the different between units. But the lowest graphics settings does not change the units pathing. So "clumped" units would be perfectly distinguishable if the higher graphics settings didn't do things that made it hard to tell units apart. Therefore, you're saying that you don't need to change pathfinding; you need to get Blizzard to adjust the higher graphics levels to make units more visually distinct. This is something blizzard should definitely just try out on the PTR. You, like many other people, seem to be under the impression that "clumping" is just something that can be taken away. That there's some line of code that they can just excise and presto, units don't "clump" anymore. What you call "clumping" is not something that was deliberately engineered into the game. It is no more deliberately engineered than Muta-stacking or Patrol-micro were deliberately engineered into SC1. "Clumping" is the ultimate and inevitable result of having better pathing. Units go in the most direct path to the designated target. If you tell a large group of units that are relatively close where to go, then they will all go together. As a single group. Because that's the fastest, most optimal way for all of those units to do what the player told them to do. What people are asking for is nothing less than for Blizzard to break pathfinding. You want to take the excellent pathfinding in SC2 and break it so that units do not take the optimal path. Breaking pathfinding would have far reaching implications. Units will, by "design", not go where you tell them to. This could lead to any number of unpleasant emergent properties for unit pathing. Maybe Stalkers start acting like Dragoons from SC1, which is not even remotely like a good thing. If you try to get two Thors down a ramp, will they get stuck on each other and neither be able to progress? What you are asking for is not a simple or trivial thing. It is not something you just do. It fundamentally changes everything. Not just unit balance, but everything. I personally don't know if this would make SC2's overall gameplay better or not. But I do know this: if it is possible for pathfinding to be too good, if it is possible for the game to do what the player told it to too well, then StarCraft-style RTS gameplay is, as a whole, fundamentally broken. If the only way to make good gameplay is to break the interface, then something is dreadfully wrong with StarCraft-style RTS games. | ||
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xza
Singapore1600 Posts
On May 17 2011 17:20 Horse...falcon wrote: This is something I've thought about too since rewatching the original Zerg reveal trailer Watch this part at 1 minute 6 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrndTcwWgYo#t=01m06s Doesn't that battle look so much more epic than most of the battles in SC2? Brood war felt so much larger in scope. That's one of the most disappointing parts of the single player too, everything seems shrunk down and squeezed together to a miniature scale. :edit: To be fair there's probably 300 food worth of zerg in that clip. The game would be very very different if units did not naturally clump together. yup that was what I was expecting months before sc2 came up and I wanted to play the zerg so badly to have a huge swarm like that! | ||
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GhostFall
United States830 Posts
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lololol
5198 Posts
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
It's stupid to want to dumb the game so that it feels "better" imo, the players have to do it themselves.. we all have seen the blob versus a better concave and the better position wins almost all of the time especially versus stron AoE units like colossus, tanks, EMP, storms and fungal.. it will be a matter of spread or die.. If the marines behave like that and zerglings how could a tank ever be efective? How could anyone stop a muta ball for instance? if thors can't do it nothing will..and you always have the matchboxing that negates the AoE of thors but it's a skill not all can do or atleast do it all the time.. I feel the blob thing is because players are being lazy in their army disposition imo and i feel a crap load of bug type aliens (zerg) should move like that.. everytime i see 30 roaches move in a ball i think it's right.. it's a insect type of thing.. and marines beside the tanks is also right The only problem is the protoss that mass gateway units beside the colossus but fungal will negate it a bit and also the EMP and ghost buff because protoss players simply can't have them like that or they will loose and that's it! improve or die! | ||
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funk100
United Kingdom172 Posts
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