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On May 15 2011 08:51 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 06:39 K3Nyy wrote:On May 15 2011 03:51 L3gendary wrote:On May 15 2011 03:30 Belha wrote:On May 15 2011 03:15 BandonBanshee wrote:On May 15 2011 03:09 proxima_ wrote:
"Nestea winning during zerg darkest hour making it even more exciting!"
this is definitely not zerg's darkest hour - see GSL season 1.
as time goes on it's pretty obvious that zerg is not only capable of competing with the other races but also capable of winning plenty of tournaments Lets be honest this finals showed us nothing of the current state of the game. All it showed us was that if u do the same build 3 games in a row you will get stomped. Inca never even made a colos. Wtf. Have you seriuosly watched the finals? Are you bronze or Silver? In that case its ok. If not, how the fu... can Inca reach collosi before those timming attacks?? Nestea outplayed Inca badly, but still proves that Z is an amazing race to play....if you play it correctly. As he say: "...you have to lose alot in order to know it. If you lose alot, slowly you will understand."Wise words. Some Z´s must stop qq'ing a bit, and start to understand their race. How about, dont rush DTs and get some sentries? He rushed DTs, Nestea was ready for it. Did that 3 games in a row... I think the only reason Inca bothered to DT rush all the games is because DTs hard counter the roach/ling aggression. If he 3gate expoed every game and Nestea went roach/ling, Nestea would've won every time. That's a great assumption, seeing as 3 gate sentry expand is probably the safest thing you can do against roach ling. He never did one properly so he lost. Even the first game he went for hallu phoenix and used up 4 ff worth of energy just before nestea attacked, not to mention the cost to research it and chronoboosts wasted. And I dont think you realize how much of a setback the dt tech was. edit: If was using dts to counter roach ling then why didn't he? Instead he tried to kill Nestea with them. A stargate - voidray build would've been a cheaper and more effective counter if that's wat he wanted to do.
No 3gate sentry expand is not safe vs roach/ling. If you build mass sentries, you'd have nothing to kill the roaches. DT builds hard counter roach/ling allin (the one that hits around when the Nexus is complete) but Nestea didn't do that.
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On May 15 2011 09:51 K3Nyy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 08:51 L3gendary wrote:On May 15 2011 06:39 K3Nyy wrote:On May 15 2011 03:51 L3gendary wrote:On May 15 2011 03:30 Belha wrote:On May 15 2011 03:15 BandonBanshee wrote:On May 15 2011 03:09 proxima_ wrote:
"Nestea winning during zerg darkest hour making it even more exciting!"
this is definitely not zerg's darkest hour - see GSL season 1.
as time goes on it's pretty obvious that zerg is not only capable of competing with the other races but also capable of winning plenty of tournaments Lets be honest this finals showed us nothing of the current state of the game. All it showed us was that if u do the same build 3 games in a row you will get stomped. Inca never even made a colos. Wtf. Have you seriuosly watched the finals? Are you bronze or Silver? In that case its ok. If not, how the fu... can Inca reach collosi before those timming attacks?? Nestea outplayed Inca badly, but still proves that Z is an amazing race to play....if you play it correctly. As he say: "...you have to lose alot in order to know it. If you lose alot, slowly you will understand."Wise words. Some Z´s must stop qq'ing a bit, and start to understand their race. How about, dont rush DTs and get some sentries? He rushed DTs, Nestea was ready for it. Did that 3 games in a row... I think the only reason Inca bothered to DT rush all the games is because DTs hard counter the roach/ling aggression. If he 3gate expoed every game and Nestea went roach/ling, Nestea would've won every time. That's a great assumption, seeing as 3 gate sentry expand is probably the safest thing you can do against roach ling. He never did one properly so he lost. Even the first game he went for hallu phoenix and used up 4 ff worth of energy just before nestea attacked, not to mention the cost to research it and chronoboosts wasted. And I dont think you realize how much of a setback the dt tech was. edit: If was using dts to counter roach ling then why didn't he? Instead he tried to kill Nestea with them. A stargate - voidray build would've been a cheaper and more effective counter if that's wat he wanted to do. No 3gate sentry expand is not safe vs roach/ling. If you build mass sentries, you'd have nothing to kill the roaches. DT builds hard counter roach/ling allin (the one that hits around when the Nexus is complete) but Nestea didn't do that.
That's why you make a forge when you expand or get a stargate. No need for dts.
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On May 15 2011 08:17 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 08:07 JJH777 wrote:On May 15 2011 06:52 Jayrod wrote:
Getting so sick of Nestea's responses. He's 17-3 against some of the best protoss' in the world lately and he still says zerg dont feel strong. Its such an annoying perspective when the good zerg players post awesome results with insane win ratios. This entire season zerg has posted better results vP than PvZ. Nestea's a great player, but I seriously wish he would put a lid on all his ridiculous balance comments Ehh I don't know about you but if what Nestea and Losira showed this season is the future of PvZ then imo it's still an extremely terrible matchup. Zergs still haven't really found an answer to toss late game they have just found a bunch of new timings to kill protoss players before they get to that late game. Once/If Toss finds an answer to these new timings it will just revert right back to what it was before. nope, zergs have been doing a lot of crazy shit in the mid and lategame and have been having pretty good success with it. basically zergs all realized that hive tech and infestors were the key to beating the deathball and then figured out their own ways to get those without dying. we'll see what happens if tosses switch to immortal/ht because that's a pretty brutal composition which we haven't seen much of, it might swing back into toss favour or it might not. also, roach/ling isn't necessarily allin, so it's not like the earlygame of the matchup would become the only part which gets played if roach/ling becomes standard.
Umm no they really haven't. Mondragon lost to Cruncher with the new agressive mass drop style. IdrA barely beat kiwikaki who he is far superior to. In fact I can't remember every game but at least 2 of IdrA's wins were these roach/ling timings. When Losira tried out a new infestor style vs Genius he ended up getting completely rolled. Nestea played 8 games against protoss this season. Only one truly went past the mid game and he was way ahead due to anypro going double stargate. Leenock lost against some unknown protoss player in code a. Overall protoss are still dominating games that aren't decided by a zerg timing rush.
It's pretty all-in. When/If protoss find a way to shut them down without losing too much then the zerg will definitely be way behind.
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Is this english...
Just being real man, but If he was speaking english and he wasn't doing it correctly put it in quotations or you sound like a 6th grader.
Thanks for the interview, but i know for a fact that this wasn't said.
Q: To take the throne during the zerg darkest hour. As a leading zerg player, are you stress?
A: Very stress but, this is also my motivation to work hard. If there is no such things happening I might turn lazy. Therefore on the contary, this has helped me greatly.
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Most likely it's actually 250 million won. Chinese has a new word for 100million so that would make more sense. I'm not surprised if you got it wrong though because it's different than most other languages.
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On May 15 2011 15:40 toson1 wrote:
Is this english...
Just being real man, but If he was speaking english and he wasn't doing it correctly put it in quotations or you sound like a 6th grader.
Thanks for the interview, but i know for a fact that this wasn't said.
Q: To take the throne during the zerg darkest hour. As a leading zerg player, are you stress?
A: Very stress but, this is also my motivation to work hard. If there is no such things happening I might turn lazy. Therefore on the contary, this has helped me greatly.
This was a interview done in korean and someone on the forum was nice enough to try to translate it for us...
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On May 15 2011 15:40 toson1 wrote:
Is this english...
Just being real man, but If he was speaking english and he wasn't doing it correctly put it in quotations or you sound like a 6th grader.
Thanks for the interview, but i know for a fact that this wasn't said.
Q: To take the throne during the zerg darkest hour. As a leading zerg player, are you stress?
A: Very stress but, this is also my motivation to work hard. If there is no such things happening I might turn lazy. Therefore on the contary, this has helped me greatly.
Apart from the grammatical issues with the translation, I can vouch that based on the Chinese translation of the Korean interview (which I think the OP was using), the essence of the question and the answer is what was said.
And to the guy 2 posts above me, yea I think it's 250million won too 
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Haha, zerg darkest hour when they win the biggest league in the world. I wonder what will happen when zerg is in its brightest hour?
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On May 15 2011 03:17 Aterons_toss wrote:
Zerg darkest what ?
Yea, I think we need to start letting go of this idea.
No not because a Zerg just 4-0'd a Toss in the finals, that's irrelevant. But recent tournament results, ladder winrates, individual quotes and even a few statistical references all seem to point toward Zerg is slowly, but surely, rising from the ashes.
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On May 15 2011 09:54 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 09:51 K3Nyy wrote:On May 15 2011 08:51 L3gendary wrote:On May 15 2011 06:39 K3Nyy wrote:On May 15 2011 03:51 L3gendary wrote:On May 15 2011 03:30 Belha wrote:On May 15 2011 03:15 BandonBanshee wrote:On May 15 2011 03:09 proxima_ wrote:
"Nestea winning during zerg darkest hour making it even more exciting!"
this is definitely not zerg's darkest hour - see GSL season 1.
as time goes on it's pretty obvious that zerg is not only capable of competing with the other races but also capable of winning plenty of tournaments Lets be honest this finals showed us nothing of the current state of the game. All it showed us was that if u do the same build 3 games in a row you will get stomped. Inca never even made a colos. Wtf. Have you seriuosly watched the finals? Are you bronze or Silver? In that case its ok. If not, how the fu... can Inca reach collosi before those timming attacks?? Nestea outplayed Inca badly, but still proves that Z is an amazing race to play....if you play it correctly. As he say: "...you have to lose alot in order to know it. If you lose alot, slowly you will understand."Wise words. Some Z´s must stop qq'ing a bit, and start to understand their race. How about, dont rush DTs and get some sentries? He rushed DTs, Nestea was ready for it. Did that 3 games in a row... I think the only reason Inca bothered to DT rush all the games is because DTs hard counter the roach/ling aggression. If he 3gate expoed every game and Nestea went roach/ling, Nestea would've won every time. That's a great assumption, seeing as 3 gate sentry expand is probably the safest thing you can do against roach ling. He never did one properly so he lost. Even the first game he went for hallu phoenix and used up 4 ff worth of energy just before nestea attacked, not to mention the cost to research it and chronoboosts wasted. And I dont think you realize how much of a setback the dt tech was. edit: If was using dts to counter roach ling then why didn't he? Instead he tried to kill Nestea with them. A stargate - voidray build would've been a cheaper and more effective counter if that's wat he wanted to do. No 3gate sentry expand is not safe vs roach/ling. If you build mass sentries, you'd have nothing to kill the roaches. DT builds hard counter roach/ling allin (the one that hits around when the Nexus is complete) but Nestea didn't do that. That's why you make a forge when you expand or get a stargate. No need for dts.
& then you're economically behind if the Zergs made 2 lings at that point.. as it's going to be a while before you can apply any decent pressure with that sort of build.
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Baller NesTea wants to face MC or MvP, koolkid
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On May 15 2011 03:15 BandonBanshee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 03:09 proxima_ wrote:
"Nestea winning during zerg darkest hour making it even more exciting!"
this is definitely not zerg's darkest hour - see GSL season 1.
as time goes on it's pretty obvious that zerg is not only capable of competing with the other races but also capable of winning plenty of tournaments Lets be honest this finals showed us nothing of the current state of the game. All it showed us was that if u do the same build 3 games in a row you will get stomped. Inca never even made a colos.
To be fair to Inca he did make 1 colossus in the last game, unfortunately he killed it himself somehow.
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having a strong early game and the threat of the timing attack is really huge for the metagame, i think pvz was oversimplified for protoss for the last few months because of the lack of non-6pool zerg timing attacks and overall macro style. the less builds zerg use, the more close protoss gets to the 'best' build that overall counters zerg. if zerg could be 100% sure protoss would either timing attack or macro they could win almost every game, the problem before is zerg having to win by econ using safe builds while every build for protoss is safe. now were closer to balance where both sides can win with timings or macro. zerg still has trouble at 200/200 but thats because their 200 army costs less than protoss, if you actually have zero roaches or lings at 200 and equal or less drones than protoss has probes you have a good chance of being as strong as protoss. if you want to use lings/roaches or make more drones than protoss has probes your gonna have to timing push before 200 to make real use of your army.
also dt is better than colossus for stopping roach/ling all in, colossus is too slow, starport doesnt have enough raw dps vs those types of units. if you make like 6-8sentries/2-3 cannons then tech for colossus safely zerg can fully saturate its third before your third is finished being made. i definately dont think the matchup is zerg favored (i think its very p favored at low lvls and slightly p favored at high levels), but the only impossible scenario for zerg involves being at 200 with roaches/lings/too many drones and a overall weak army, the rest can be handled with scouting/intuition and using good offensive timings.
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lol @ the ppl hopping from one thread to the next saying "zerg is still gimp, that final doesn't mean anything!"..
especially as the very same bunch of people probably used the "protoss is imba, look at the tournament wins in the last months!" argument as well.
hypocritical scrubs ftw.
nestea is an amazing player, but the fact that he performs so well with zerg shows that tournament balance is fine. zerg has some weaknesses, but good players can press the issue and nullify the weaknesses.
the WUM "zerg darkest hour" quote is rubbish, not sure where that's come from... people were saying the same last year and then zerg dominated the GSL's... protoss are not rolling over zerg with deathball anymore, and terran seem to lose every game against zerg unless the player runs his entire ling/bling/roach army into too many siege tanks. which is even worse than a terran running his army into too many banelings.
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Someone who speaks Korean, please take our comments to a site where NesTea can read them and tell him we all love him very much and he's a badass pro-player who not only playes good but innovates and never gives up: True signs of a great player.
<3
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EPT
