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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On May 13 2011 19:59 Blizzard_torments_me wrote: Yes.It's just funny how all the Terran high tech units can be feedbacked and almost instagibed. Cry me a river. Ghost effect 100% of toss units, not just half, is area effect not single unit, and has longer range. | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On May 13 2011 19:57 -Archangel- wrote: It would have been better if Blizzard never told us what they think. Half of these notes are bullshit  If you say so, you and your minority friends can go and whine "I DONT WANT INTERESTING INFORMATION!" all you want, the rest of us don't have to listen. On May 13 2011 19:40 PrinceXizor wrote: soooo that 6+ times they reverted changes and reverted reversions to bunker build time were ALL mistakes? does that make bunkers mistakes? i'm confused. what about zealot build time change + reversions (multiple) they revert a ton of changes. the bunker and zealot build times were not reversions in the same sense the thor energy was a reversion. build times were changes based on the metagame that changed due to other reasons, aka the build times were not balanced at the time of change but became more blanced after the change. the thor energy is a reversion because the only real reason to do it was because of extremely rare curcumstances where the terran got so many thors that they could hard counter their own hard counter, even though no change had been made to said hard counter, in other words, the thor was more balanced at the time of change than after the change, thus needing a revertion. personally I love the patch notes but I was confused about the thor thing until now, I have never heard of any mass thor strategy but I agree that using big enormous units as the bulk of your army is not something pretty to look at as a spectator, for example an army of pure ultralisk is UGLY (lucky noone makes pure ultralisk because they are ****ing terrible en masse). | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
do but a billion times more effective and they are slow as hell . | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On May 13 2011 20:35 tdt wrote: Wish they'd give 1% of this love to carrier. I've seen 2 in all of GSL, not to mention what a venerable unit it was from BW. While I agree with the fact that carriers take way too long to build, the unit is actually flawed. It won't work regardless of what buff in PvT because marines would still evaporate interceptors, and vikings will still absolutely murder them. In PvP in theory they could be good, but really, what PvP goes as long as carriers ( we can all hope that one day.... ). In PvZ on the other hand, with voidray backup, carriers are nothing more than an I WIN unit. With a lack of dark swarm, a high food count hydralisk, a corruptor that does badly if there are more than 10 voidrays on the field, and mutalisks get absolutely manhandled by interceptors. There simply isn't any AA that deals with carriers effectively on the zergs side. The only hope you have is to somehow magically fungal all the interceptors, and that can only be done the second the carriers start engaging something. I suggest all the protoss to turtle up on 3 base and build up voidrays and carriers on for example Tal Darim. Then take a fourth and a fifth while turtling. There is nothing the zerg has in its arsenal once this ball gets too big, on the contrary with void/collosus, where mass mutalisk techswitches deal with it quite effectively. | ||
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ridonkulous
159 Posts
On May 13 2011 20:39 tdt wrote: Cry me a river. Ghost effect 100% of toss units, not just half, is area effect not single unit, and has longer range. ghosts and good emp hits are necessity if u even want to have half decent chance to win a fight vs toss army, dont make it sound like it was insta win because without it T army will just get rolled over. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
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Mercury-
Great Britain804 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On May 13 2011 19:30 dust7 wrote: What about Chargelots and Voidrays, or microed Colossi (Range 9 > Range 7)? They all fail to mass thor. Chargelots need ~50 hits to kill a +3 armor thor. Meanwhile Thors are 3 shottting chargelots with thier massive 50DPS not to mention mass hellions burning them up which support. Stalker same pathetic results. VR clump and take massive damage to thor splash not to mention the 12 vikings supporting shooting at them. Colossi get one shotted by SC and can't even do their pathetic 18DPS since they are frozen until they die. Immo's one shotted by SC DT's die because you build a raven and have scans Trust me I've played ~20 custom games vs mass thor and only thing effective is mass carrier with phoenix support both +3 attack. | ||
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MonsieurGrimm
Canada2441 Posts
On May 13 2011 20:13 nihlon wrote: Terran have marines and Protoss stalker and sentry for early game. They are only saying that they have no problem with a zerg that don't take any steps to protect themselves through scouting or preemptive measures to outright lose. And the spore crawler change was for the situations where the zerg have read his opponent right and still loses. but they aren't giving us good scouting or good preemptive measures... all of the changes are a step forwards though imo, it just hurts to read some of their reasoning for them :/ | ||
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Dystisis
Norway713 Posts
On May 13 2011 20:54 Mercury- wrote: It's kinda funny how they don't like Terrans getting large numbers of Thors but seeing Zerg and Terran ground armies being incinerated by mass Colossus time and time again is perfectly fine. Way to go David Kim. Colossi are more like stronger Siege Tanks. | ||
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Severus_
759 Posts
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Fat.Cat91
50 Posts
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Elwar
953 Posts
On May 13 2011 20:44 Chaosvuistje wrote: In PvZ on the other hand, with voidray backup, carriers are nothing more than an I WIN unit. With a lack of dark swarm, a high food count hydralisk, a corruptor that does badly if there are more than 10 voidrays on the field, and mutalisks get absolutely manhandled by interceptors. There simply isn't any AA that deals with carriers effectively on the zergs side. The only hope you have is to somehow magically fungal all the interceptors, and that can only be done the second the carriers start engaging something. I suggest all the protoss to turtle up on 3 base and build up voidrays and carriers on for example Tal Darim. Then take a fourth and a fifth while turtling. There is nothing the zerg has in its arsenal once this ball gets too big, on the contrary with void/collosus, where mass mutalisk techswitches deal with it quite effectively This is not a thread to make balance complaints in, regardless you are deliberately underselling corruptors and infestors. Corruptors are just just barely not cost-for-cost, supply-for-supply with void rays if you use corruption (super duper close), and demolishes carriers in both categories thanks to being +massive. Likewise infestors can demolish air only armies with the new fungal growth. Meanwhile vikings actually don't murder carriers (about equal). So please, don't spout such stuff. | ||
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On May 13 2011 20:55 MonsieurGrimm wrote: but they aren't giving us good scouting or good preemptive measures... all of the changes are a step forwards though imo, it just hurts to read some of their reasoning for them :/ I think their reasonings are pretty sound in most cases . That a player can outright lose if they don't scout is reasonable. Then the fact that it's hard to scout in certain situations is another matter. | ||
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Mercury-
Great Britain804 Posts
On May 13 2011 19:41 eviltomahawk wrote: I think the Thor change was also an indirect way of encouraging HT play after the dreaded Amulet nerf. This along with the Archon buff was probably meant to make Templar a viable option in PvT despite the lack of warp-in storms. Encouraging Feedback and Archon play gives Protoss more reason to invest in Templar as opposed to mass Colossi. Templars were still used a lot vs Terran at higher levels actually. Maybe not in Gold and below where mass Thors are apparently unstoppable too. | ||
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Fir3fly
Australia251 Posts
On May 13 2011 20:02 Skyze wrote: err.. a 100 gas ghost does 1000+ dmg to protoss units. Not to mention can take out all your HT's energy so no feedback/storm, then you have a 150 gas unit that sits there and dies. Ghosts are insanely good by themselves too, if anyone remembers in beta when Jinro did mass ghost vs zerg, like 10 ghosts took out huge armies of mutas in seconds. Are you really complaining about feedback? *terran players* *complaining* why are you so supprised. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On May 13 2011 20:44 Chaosvuistje wrote: While I agree with the fact that carriers take way too long to build, the unit is actually flawed. It won't work regardless of what buff in PvT because marines would still evaporate interceptors, and vikings will still absolutely murder them. In PvP in theory they could be good, but really, what PvP goes as long as carriers ( we can all hope that one day.... ). In PvZ on the other hand, with voidray backup, carriers are nothing more than an I WIN unit. With a lack of dark swarm, a high food count hydralisk, a corruptor that does badly if there are more than 10 voidrays on the field, and mutalisks get absolutely manhandled by interceptors. There simply isn't any AA that deals with carriers effectively on the zergs side. The only hope you have is to somehow magically fungal all the interceptors, and that can only be done the second the carriers start engaging something. I suggest all the protoss to turtle up on 3 base and build up voidrays and carriers on for example Tal Darim. Then take a fourth and a fifth while turtling. There is nothing the zerg has in its arsenal once this ball gets too big, on the contrary with void/collosus, where mass mutalisk techswitches deal with it quite effectively. NP. Same thing that stops col balls. Posters above this are whining about. | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
I wish they instead would answer some of the questions and concerns of the community. Why were thors nerfed when they were hardly ever used? Was mass thor even good at all? Also, they say that now thors can be countered with EMP/FB, and players wont feel like they cant do anything against it. But thors were NEVER used in TvT, and even if they were it was never more than like 1 or 2. And i've never seen a strike cannon being used in TvT, never. The fact is that this change was purely a TvP change, and that i've never seen "mass thors". I wish they would go more in depth with this. Also, the "players couldnt see other units because of the thor" argument is actually just too funny. And giving thors energy certainly wouldnt help this "problem".  I felt like it boiled down to "yea we just didnt like this" instead of WHY they didnt like it. | ||
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