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On May 13 2011 19:14 ridonkulous wrote:
yes because mass marauders and vikings are so much more appealing to watch than thors
give us some t3 options vs retarded strong late game toss army otherwise terrans will just keep all ining or 2 base pushing and keep losing in normal macro games.
ps. just noticed they dont like mass spine crawlers too .... LOL
Thors are still plenty viable TvP, they just made it so that protosses have a way of dealing with the strike cannon.
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On May 13 2011 19:41 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 19:35 betaV1.25 wrote:On May 13 2011 19:25 TehForce wrote:
You can still mass Thors if you want to... T_T
Strike Cannon got nerfed because mass Thors could destroy the only unit on p side which is cost effective (immortal) easily on their own. Now you have to mix Thors/Ghosts to create a more diverse army so why exactly is this bad? I am pretty sure lots are allso cost effective vs thors. I dislike the change alot because of ht's. I can perfectly understand that thors with strike cannons were op in the previous setup. But why coudnt they just make them come out of the factory and set the cooldown on 3 min? It would have basicly done the same thing without being so exposed to huge amounts of damage from hts. I think the Thor change was also an indirect way of encouraging HT play after the dreaded Amulet nerf. This along with the Archon buff was probably meant to make Templar a viable option in PvT despite the lack of warp-in storms. Encouraging Feedback and Archon play gives Protoss more reason to invest in Templar as opposed to mass Colossi.
I am totally confused right now, are saying that Templar's were not a viable option in PvT?
Anyway i am all for more options in matchups, but at the moment i only see 1 option in PvT for the terran and that is bio+healing followed by ghosts and vikings if you see a collo production fac.
ninja edit: outside of the all in rine/shee/tank
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Pretty sure White Ra (or some other pro) said 3-0-3 Toss loses to 1-1 Marauder Viking.
Atm PvT is slightly in favor of the Terran anyway, and Ghosts are getting better.
No reason to not slightly nerf some other aspect of T.
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Sorry Blizzard , but i will use whatever i want as my main army in the game i don't need strategical insight from you , even if you have to nerf it to oblivion . If you don't like how the Thors or other units look or play in mass you should have thinked more before making them .
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On May 13 2011 19:45 betaV1.25 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 19:41 eviltomahawk wrote:On May 13 2011 19:35 betaV1.25 wrote:On May 13 2011 19:25 TehForce wrote:
You can still mass Thors if you want to... T_T
Strike Cannon got nerfed because mass Thors could destroy the only unit on p side which is cost effective (immortal) easily on their own. Now you have to mix Thors/Ghosts to create a more diverse army so why exactly is this bad? I am pretty sure lots are allso cost effective vs thors. I dislike the change alot because of ht's. I can perfectly understand that thors with strike cannons were op in the previous setup. But why coudnt they just make them come out of the factory and set the cooldown on 3 min? It would have basicly done the same thing without being so exposed to huge amounts of damage from hts. I think the Thor change was also an indirect way of encouraging HT play after the dreaded Amulet nerf. This along with the Archon buff was probably meant to make Templar a viable option in PvT despite the lack of warp-in storms. Encouraging Feedback and Archon play gives Protoss more reason to invest in Templar as opposed to mass Colossi. I am totally confused right now, are saying that Templar's were not a viable option in PvT? Anyway i am all for more options in matchups, but at the moment i only see 1 option in PvT for the terran and that is bio+healing followed by ghosts and vikings if you see a collo production fac. ninja edit: outside of the all in rine/shee/tank
And I ask you what other options would the P have?
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As a terran, I feel like strike cannon is such a stupid ability anyway. It seems like blizzard should just remove it rather than add the energy back in, I understand them wanting to make the thor a support unit, but it seems like they are doing this the wrong way. As it is immortals, and badly microed colossus are the only units I would ever try to use strike cannon on, and I guess other thors.
I can't remember the last time i researched strike cannon in a non team game. It's like corruption, you use it because you have the unit, but you don't get the unit for the spell. Where as this isn't true with the phoenix's graviton beam which is often a primary reason you get a phoenix.
I feel like I have no flexibility in TvP, that I'm locked into playing the matchup with marauders and support units(vikings, ghosts, medivacs, etc) or doing some kind of 1/2base all in. Where as I feel like protoss air/robo/templar tech lines are all somewhat viable in PvT.
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On May 13 2011 19:43 Garm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 19:14 ridonkulous wrote:
yes because mass marauders and vikings are so much more appealing to watch than thors
give us some t3 options vs retarded strong late game toss army otherwise terrans will just keep all ining or 2 base pushing and keep losing in normal macro games.
ps. just noticed they dont like mass spine crawlers too .... LOL Thors are still plenty viable TvP, they just made it so that protosses have a way of dealing with the strike cannon. Except they way they did it makes them significantly weaker in a late game army scenario versus templar tech, feedback + storm will just roll mech over.
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On May 13 2011 19:47 johanngrunt wrote:
Pretty sure White Ra (or some other pro) said 3-0-3 Toss loses to 1-1 Marauder Viking.
Atm PvT is slightly in favor of the Terran anyway, and Ghosts are getting better.
No reason to not slightly nerf some other aspect of T.
PvT is slightly in favor of terran based on what ?
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On May 13 2011 19:21 Tppz! wrote:Show nested quote +We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don’t want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible. I'd like to ask Blizzard why Terran Pplayers should add the Thor t an Army if he has no function anymore but killing stacked mutas. There is no way you can add a Thor to an army as a support unit. Its 6 Supply each walking slower than anyrthing else so it can absorb the damage when you push.
I'm forever bronze and the Insane AI rushed my 3gate expo with 6 thors. I dunno how he did it, but it really hurt!
Seriously though, I think Thors need some sort of buff. People just magic box their mutas so that it doesn't matter any more. Strike Cannons are no longer usable, which is a shame overall but they needed a nerf in TvP. They really need SCVs to function properly, and that's a huge investment if you aren't gonna end it there and then with one big push.
Big, bulky units in general are bad (except colossi). I'd like to see some sort of buff. Splash? Tanks do that, so it might be bad design, but I guess ground splash would be cool. I dunno. As I said, forever bronze.
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Thanks for the article, this is pretty much what I figured all of the changes would be about, the only thing that I hadn't really thought of was that the fact that units could be hidden around their Thor. I don't really know if that was actually a big deal due to the fact that Thors are rather slow and faster units would run past them giving an idea of the composition and unit count. Great patch and I can't wait to go collect the tears of Thor pushing Terrans with some HTs
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lol, nvm, i think i misunderstood the post....
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About thor nerf in TvP:
Thor with no energy:
the hard counter = immortal - the only unit for which you may learn the 250mm cannons (stalkers are too week for a channeled spell and colossuses are too far);
Thor with energy:
now protoss may choose FB to counter because with no immortals on the field, terran will not be researching cannons - in consequence: more energy to FB and another useless slot for terran.
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On May 13 2011 19:49 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 19:47 johanngrunt wrote:
Pretty sure White Ra (or some other pro) said 3-0-3 Toss loses to 1-1 Marauder Viking.
Atm PvT is slightly in favor of the Terran anyway, and Ghosts are getting better.
No reason to not slightly nerf some other aspect of T. PvT is slightly in favor of terran based on what ?
based on terran can mass Marauder/vikings and still win in lategame?
Terran is the race with the fewest weaknesses, and easiest massable counters.
while they might feel weak them selfs, why have both other races explore their full techtree, while Terran masses 1 T1 Core Unit and and some support units (Medivacs,Vikings)
That makes fighting Terran alot harder cause both races have to take alot of risks against the sheer power of Terran Units.
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some korean grandmaster Terrans uses mass thors in TvZ so Thors do have a place in the game
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
This thor nerf is really silly, they just watched Thorzain use them and then they decided to nerf it because they don't like it...
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On May 13 2011 19:49 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 19:47 johanngrunt wrote:
Pretty sure White Ra (or some other pro) said 3-0-3 Toss loses to 1-1 Marauder Viking.
Atm PvT is slightly in favor of the Terran anyway, and Ghosts are getting better.
No reason to not slightly nerf some other aspect of T. PvT is slightly in favor of terran based on what ?
Based on every stat in professional SC2 games. Go look at the Korean stats since April, or the TLPD stats of 1.3 to 1.3.3, both show Terran in a large lead.
And white-ra or whoever said that is absolutely correct, you need 3-3 Protoss to even deal with 1-1 marauder. Once its 3-3 marauder, you basically require mass colossi or um.. I dunno I think you need to win the game before 3-3 marauder or you lose. Storm doesnt do enough damage, not to mention ghosts are as cheap as a sentry now so not like you can ever save up energy.
The ghost buff is the biggest herp derp of this patch.. Thors "nerf" is minute compared to how much one 100gas ghost hurts a WHOLE protoss army (over 1500 HP down in one un-dodgable second).. Wonder why Protoss players aren't complaining about this as much as terrans complaining about a unit no one uses anyways except Thorzain? The only time I ever saw thors used, was that ridiculous 2 thor mass marine/scv all-in, which was soo hard to stop by protoss even if you got mass immortals (marines rip immortals to nothing).. Feedback actually may be able to help vs that now!
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On May 13 2011 19:49 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 19:47 johanngrunt wrote:
Pretty sure White Ra (or some other pro) said 3-0-3 Toss loses to 1-1 Marauder Viking.
Atm PvT is slightly in favor of the Terran anyway, and Ghosts are getting better.
No reason to not slightly nerf some other aspect of T. PvT is slightly in favor of terran based on what ?
Just another troll man.Ignore the idiot.And LOL at the reasoing behind the Thor nerf. I can't really understand what ppl are in that balance team but I think they need to get they're head checked before they make another patch.
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Out of interest, if you build a thor but dont research 250mm cannons, does the thor still have energy?
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Blizzard should remove the energy again from Thors.
However, when 250mm cannons is upgraded in the factory Thors will receive 100/200 energy.
In my head that seems pretty fair.
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EPT
