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ridonkulous
159 Posts
On May 13 2011 21:32 Fat.Cat91 wrote: yes lets make zvt imbalanced again... and tvt boring tank viking vs tank viking... have to break it to you but tvt metagame is already shiftings back towards pure mech im pretty sure soon u will see mostly mech tvts because its just superior to bio/mech builds | ||
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captainwaffles
United States1050 Posts
On May 13 2011 21:32 Fat.Cat91 wrote: yes lets make zvt imbalanced again... and tvt boring tank viking vs tank viking... the siege tank alone didn't make the MU imbalanced, and zerg has sinced had buffs, so why the fuck not? marine tank is boring as hell, fuck i think its even more boring, much less emphasis on positioning more on the fucking marine... tanks are only there to kill marines, if the tank didn't do a good job of it the MU would be marine on marine wars. enough with blob vs blob, i want to see some actually thought and positioning. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13407 Posts
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
So strike cannon is too strong versus Protoss, so now Protoss has an ability against Thors that is even better on Thors that don't even have the strike cannon upgrade to begin with. Feedback takes away half of a Thors life. Having to investing in an upgrade to disable a counter to that upgrade which is in stronger effect when you don't even have the upgrade makes no sense. So there you are playing a game like a casual 4v4 and you have a bunch of Thors and suddenly HTs show up. Alright, so in order to soften the blow, you invest in strike cannons to be able to get rid of the energy. So you get that upgrade and decide to get rid of your energy by blasting away on some SCVs. Well, that doesn't even work most of the time because the strike cannon ability costs so much friggin energy. So then you get ghosts to emp your own thors that you happen to have built and then just win the game with nukes instead. "Hey yo, why are you getting strike cannons?" - "Why? Well to counter the counter to strike cannons of course!" I'd be okay if Thors came with strike cannons again without having to research it. | ||
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PlosionCornu
Italy814 Posts
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XenoX101
Australia729 Posts
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antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
On May 13 2011 22:24 XenoX101 wrote: Guys this isn't supreme commander, mass thor shouldn't be as viable a strat as it was before. Besides, you can still go mass thor, it's just an appropriately risky strat now rather than a braindead "lets mass tier 3" with an insta hard counter to its hard counter immortals. why not? | ||
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thebole1
Serbia126 Posts
On May 13 2011 21:37 Deadlyfish wrote: Rump = fleshy hindquarters of an animal (ty dictionary), but I assume you mean ramp?  heheI dont believe they should buff tanks. They are already used so much against the other races. It would be too har to balance... haha lol yes ramp i was fast write and becaus of that i made mestace  sry  i think it would help PvP balance that you cant see up rump if you dont have at list one unit on ramp... | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On May 13 2011 22:24 XenoX101 wrote: Guys this isn't supreme commander, mass thor shouldn't be as viable a strat as it was before. Besides, you can still go mass thor, it's just an appropriately risky strat now rather than a braindead "lets mass tier 3" with an insta hard counter to its hard counter immortals. Here's the Thing . Thors are besides against Mutas horrible in a Support role. There's nothing Thors do that will make my Army any better. In big numbers Thors are good in low numbers not so much. | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On May 13 2011 22:24 XenoX101 wrote: Guys this isn't supreme commander, mass thor shouldn't be as viable a strat as it was before. Besides, you can still go mass thor, it's just an appropriately risky strat now rather than a braindead "lets mass tier 3" with an insta hard counter to its hard counter immortals. I have, in one year and two months of playing starcraft 2, never seen ANYONE go mass thors. That's just not feasible. I really wonder how anyone can mass a unit that costs 300/200 and 6 supply and not lose to early pressure. | ||
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Tamekk
3 Posts
In Fact they were pretty nice against nearly every unit T has except ONE. Storm brings havoc to: Riens, Rodeurs, Helions, Vikings, narrow tank lines, Banshees, ghosts, SCV, Reaper Featback: BC's, Ravens, Medivacs, Banshees, Ghosts, PDD and now even Thors. I really think if they don't either buff the range of the Strike Cannon, so it COUNTERS Colossus or remove the Strike cannon completely they should maybe change the SC so it doens't need research and give us an upgrade to remove it including the damn engery bar...... I honestly believe that Terran T3 does NOT have any real viability except against mass Mutas. I mean 3-6 Colossus or Broodlords are so freaking scary, even Ultras are very strong against a tank based terran army, but who gives a shit about 3-6 thors added to a bioball, or about BC's in general? You really dont want to build them. They are expansiv units that need long tech and building time just to weaken your army. Also they are immobile. While Zerg and Toss Armys get pretty scary Units you REALLY WANT to HAVE, Terrans T3 is not cool at all. I mean can't they just nerf all that organic waste we terrans need to build and buff the cool units? edit: I think the SC2 balance is great for such a young game and I dont think Terra is UP or anything was OP, I just think Races should be a bit more even in the different parts of the game. | ||
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Binabik
Germany686 Posts
On May 13 2011 22:55 maartendq wrote: I have, in one year and two months of playing starcraft 2, never seen ANYONE go mass thors. That's just not feasible. I really wonder how anyone can mass a unit that costs 300/200 and 6 supply and not lose to early pressure. Omg if you didn't watch Thorzain's TvP against MC you really shouldn't be discussing about Thors >_> | ||
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Juanald
United States354 Posts
First, we definitely don’t like seeing Thors en masse. Due to the visual size of the unit, as well as a small pathing radius, Thors can obscure the other units in your army too easily. Lets hope they adress ultras next those can be problem as well. | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
Archons have generally been a slightly weak unit for their cost. This was a conscious design decision that we made since we wanted Morph to Archon to be a "recycle" ability. Reading this made me remember that Archons weren't supposed to be an actual unit... *shakes head* I'm pretty happy with the patch, although I suppose I would be since none of my shit got nerfed... | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:58 Blizzard wrote: If a zerg player is totally unprepared, we don't mind them just outright losing the game. Understatement of the year. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On May 13 2011 19:08 recklessfire wrote: We will never know if the thor strategies were imbalanced or not, but the strike cannons were NEGATING the counter units that protoss would make. In that regard, yea its reasonable why blizzard wasn't happy with an ability that powerful. The problem is that the strike cannon has a limited use, but the "counter unit" (High Templar) has a wide variety of use with the Psi Storm, Feedback and the new improved version of Archons. I think it would be fair to remove the energy from "1 spell units" (Thor, BC) altogether unless the spell is researched. You have the choice to get it at the cost of an achilles heel, but right now Terrans have the achilles heel even without having the spell. That doesnt seem fair. On May 13 2011 18:58 Blizzard wrote: If a zerg player is totally unprepared, we don't mind them just outright losing the game. Why cant the same "rule" apply to Protoss and mass Thors? They are HUGE and expensive and not easy to produce en masse. Protoss have a really fast way to switch their unit styles from ranged stalkers to Zealots which should be able to rip apart the Thors and which are too small to make a use of Strike Cannone very efficient. The reasoning with the size is their own frigging fault, because they designed the unit (which was bigger initially). | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
First, we definitely don’t like seeing Thors en masse. Due to the visual size of the unit, as well as a small pathing radius, Thors can obscure the other units in your army too easily. This can be problematic because it's important to know roughly how many units an opponent has when scouting. We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don’t want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible. Second, we felt counter relationships were turning too heavily. The nature of lockdown abilities in general is that they have the potential to heavily turn the tide of battle against armies that would otherwise counter your units. Most of these abilities, especially for an ability as strong as this one, have to be fairly difficult to bring out and easier to counter. We feel that having the additional counters of EMP/Feedback to the Strike Cannons ability is better so that we don’t get into degenerating situations where the opponent is stuck without recourse. I can understand everything else about the Thor nerf but the line I highlighted really irks me as to how patches will be done in the future. Not that it matters because it doesn't change anything about the Thor except you have to EMP them every so often. The Thor as it stands can whole sale replace the Tank in TvP. This sort of reasoning makes me worried about what happens if people do start using masses of Thors in late game TvP... Will Blizzard just nerf the thing to hell? | ||
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Naphal
Germany2099 Posts
Ghosts are also not the most common unit in TvT... and why would you build them, simply make marauders to destroy his thors and win! The thor has one use: Scare mutalisks! But blizzard thinks he has another purpose: He looks good, that is why you should always build one so that your bio can dance around it! seriously, TvP, make addons with your factory, or scout with it... apart from some blueflamehellions you cannot build anything useful with it against protoss. | ||
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shaman6ix
Greece212 Posts
On May 13 2011 19:28 dust7 wrote: so massing colossi is perfectly fine, but massing thors has to ne prevented? when will people learn to actually fing READ AND COMPREHEND what is being said?? They said: They didnt like massive thor armies because they didnt have a counter with immortals being strike-cannoned so they gave them a counter (feedback) in order to push players towards making armies where thors are more like support units and not the core of the army. Colossi ALREADY have a counter of sort as, unlike thors, they are being targeted by AtA units (VIKINGS) and ALREADY are not the core of a protoss army in terms of quantity (do you ever see 10 colossus w/ 8 stalkers and 6 zealots?). Mass Vikings will actually prevent a protoss to go, lets say, 2gate 3robo mass colossi while templars will actually prevent a terran from going 2racks 3 factory (this is just an example, i dont claim those to be actual strategies) Is it so difficult for you to understand that thats what they're saying? Or do you think what i said is false? Elaborate. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
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