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Hello,
I'm a giant fan and terrible player of the amazing SC2. In a 2v2 with a buddy of mine the other day we were plodding along, having a decent game - considering my skill level. We finally fend off the early aggression, I was setting up a 2nd base, had a good number of immortals, zealots and stalkers (with a few sentries) against their composition of mostly zerglings, roaches and bio (plus mutas shortly later). I'm still on 3 gate with an obs or two and I'm now confident we can hold and more aggression our opponents decide to send our way. Now, all of a sudden *NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED* shakes me into super alert WTF mode and I take a strong look at our army thinking that's the most likely target: 1) I don't see a red dot in our army. and 2) I see a ghost die at the front and think that may have been it. (this might have been done on purpose in hindsight, not sure). Nevertheless, a short time later the Nuke comes down right in the middle of our combined army, right where I was looking the whole time. It was messy. We didn't gg. They probably high-five'd. I was pretty shocked and pretty pissed off at the time because I had been looking right where the nuke ended up coming down. I also happened to be streaming at the time.
Stream Highlight VOD (35 Seconds) of The Catastrophe: http://www.justin.tv/etherwar/b/285651021
Replay Link: http://replayfu.com/download/LgMZgv
So I loaded up the replay the next day, and figured out that the reason I couldn't see the nuke dot was because I have the unit health/status bars "Always On", and a Stallker's Health/Shield indicator was responsible for making the red nuke dot wholly invisible. However, you could actually see the red dot if you scrolled the dot to the very top or bottom edge of the viewport.
My question is: should we be able to see the red dots on top of the health bars, or is this "working as intended"? I tested and know that the red dot is visible in the replay if I press ALT (removing the status bars), so I know this is possible. I'm just wondering if anyone else has run into this? I certainly can find nothing on the matter through TL.net or Google searches.
I also have 3 pics from the replay which illustrate what I'm talking about:
+ Show Spoiler +1) Red dot invisible under status bar when viewport centered vertically ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HQhK5.jpg) Nuke view 12) Red dot visible when dot at bottom of viewport ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Sjdje.jpg) Nuke view 23) Red dot visible when dot at top of viewport ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aIq6u.jpg) Nuke view 3
Common criticisms from the thread
1) "You're bad..."
I know, working on it...
2) "You should have moved your army and checked both mineral lines"
Good point. But, this post is about the red nuke dot hiding behind health/status bars. While I haven't tested it, theoretically you could hide the dot behind a building status bar and your opponent would have a very difficult time dealing with it if they didn't turn off status bars or hit ALT.
So, TL... here's the obligatory poll for subjects like these:
Poll: Should nuke red dot show up in front of unit health/shield bar?Yes, it should show up on top. (93) 55% No, get some skill and press ALT if you have status bars set to always (77) 45% 170 total votes Your vote: Should nuke red dot show up in front of unit health/shield bar? (Vote): Yes, it should show up on top.
(Vote): No, get some skill and press ALT if you have status bars set to always
Semi-Related Threads found when searching
+ Show Spoiler +Nuke Dot Behind Things: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126171The images that were in this thread are down, but it seems to be an issue of the dot not showing near a building. Possibly a bug that was fixed during the beta? BUG: Ultra Shaders, Makes Nukes Hard to Find.: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141294This was about a red dot not showing up on creep on ultra shaders (not sure if it has been fixed since but it from last year so I hope so... However, I was on all Ultra except for DoF, so I tested this in the replay... changing from ultra to high as was suggested in the thread didn't do anything, the dot still was hidden by the status bar.
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you should have moved your army regardles.
Also the red dot is actually showing infront of Healthbar for me...
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No, get some skill, dot is big enough to notice it when needed (I'm not terran player)
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just ALWAYS move army and then look at every mineral line when you hear a nuke launch, no big deal
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I think the nuke is fine just as it is.
What you described was a single phenomenon since you didn't know any better,
there doesn't seem to be a problem with nukes in general.
If you really want to make the nuke easier to find, and draw a line at how easy it should be to find,
you'll start countless debates with no end in sight,
ranging from your problem, over the shade/width of the dot,
to the fact that the dot is hard to spot over certain textures.
So my opinion is to just keep the lid closed on this topic,
until there really is something off with the nuke.
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can't you just press (alt it is?) to remove the bars for a second and check it out?
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Forget switching to alt, all you have to do is budge your army a little bit
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Just press space and the camera will move to the last alert( in this case the nuke position) -_-. Seriously, you ppl just want everything given to you don't you? Maybe they should make the dot larger too with a big NUKE text above it so you can see it ,cuz you just can't tap tab -_-.
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This is to encourage people to nuke more often. They should leave it.
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On May 12 2011 20:02 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
Just press space and the camera will move to the last alert( in this case the nuke position) -_-. Seriously, you ppl just want everything given to you don't you? Maybe they should make the dot larger too with a big NUKE text above it so you can see it ,cuz you just can't tap tab -_-.
I'm hoping this was sarcasm and I'm too tired to notice it but pressing space is not going to show you where the nuke is. Haven't you noticed that it says "nuclear launch detected" for every player in a game? Do you think it's going to show everyone in a FFA for example where the guys nuke is?
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We should also have the nuke dot appear above flying buildings and units!
Oh, and we should have an outline of units/buildings hidden under flying stuff too!
Oh, and we should turn off the fog of war, that way, it's all about skill, not about coin flips like unscouted proxies or cannons being slipped into your backside!
All silliness aside, if it promotes nuke gameplay, I think it should stay in.
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Well, not that i get nuked alot, but they'll normally target either your workers or in some cases your army. Just move your army and check the worker lines and you're good in most cases. Normally It's not very hard to guess where the nuke is, in my opinion.
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On May 12 2011 20:06 NeXiLe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 20:02 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
Just press space and the camera will move to the last alert( in this case the nuke position) -_-. Seriously, you ppl just want everything given to you don't you? Maybe they should make the dot larger too with a big NUKE text above it so you can see it ,cuz you just can't tap tab -_-. I'm hoping this was sarcasm and I'm too tired to notice it but pressing space is not going to show you where the nuke is. Haven't you noticed that it says "nuclear launch detected" for every player in a game? Do you think it's going to show everyone in a FFA for example where the guys nuke is?
hes trying to bait non-romanian romanians
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if he intentionally knew your stalkers hp bar would cover the dot then tbh that is pretty cool.
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I see this more as an element of skill than a bug, just press tab or dont have hp bars visible all the time(yeah right :D). Anyways having the dot visible on top of the bars would make it stick out like a sore thumb which would be even worse. So working as intended imho.
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They should just show the same big animation that the player using the nuke gets....
nah, just kidding. While it is annoying to lose your army to a nuke - which happens to almost anyone once in a while - i don't think the bars hiding the dot are critical. Just always move or spread your army when you hear the nuke, you will notice the dot usually immedatly.
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You didn't even look around for it. You didn't check your mineral line and you didn't move your army to show it. It's meant to be hidden, the thing is easy enough to dodge as it is, no reason to make it easier.
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Well, you could have that observer in your army in front of your ramp instead of floating on top of your own units to scout such shenanigans, or you could just move your army to be on the safe side.
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On May 12 2011 20:06 NeXiLe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 20:02 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
Just press space and the camera will move to the last alert( in this case the nuke position) -_-. Seriously, you ppl just want everything given to you don't you? Maybe they should make the dot larger too with a big NUKE text above it so you can see it ,cuz you just can't tap tab -_-. I'm hoping this was sarcasm and I'm too tired to notice it but pressing space is not going to show you where the nuke is. Haven't you noticed that it says "nuclear launch detected" for every player in a game? Do you think it's going to show everyone in a FFA for example where the guys nuke is?
The reason the spacebar method seems to work is because people don't set the ghost to hold fire, then the ghost reaches it's destination, fires a shot, then launches the nuke. Since an attack happened, an alert is issued to the other player, and can press space to go to the attack which is where the ghost is.
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at the left side of the screen there are alerts like "scv built" or "building X finished" and also "nuclear launch detected" and if you click on that alert your screen is centered at the nuke spot. it's just like the space bar method, only a little bit better, because space bar often centers your screen on a unit built or something else that happened in between the nuke starting and pressing space bar.
it's there in the VOD too, a yellow alert: "calldown detected: tac nuke strike"
just click on that
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thats unlucky but if you hear a nuke its always a good idea to move your army just to be safe
Edit: or at least if you dont find the red dot anywhere in your mineral lines
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when playing as a red protoss, i beleive the nuclear dot is pretty much invisible if it gets launched on the red parts of your nexus. is this as intended too?
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On May 12 2011 21:36 Qweasdzxc wrote:
when playing as a red protoss, i beleive the nuclear dot is pretty much invisible if it gets launched on the red parts of your nexus. is this as intended too?
You can change your colours in game to make yourself green, and your opponent red. So if you spawn as red toss, just switch the colours!
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You really just need to move your army and check min lines. The nuke dot is small to make it a viable strategy. But also, looking at that screenshot...you didn't have any scouting done except for an initial worker. If you had scouted you would have potentially seen that ghosts are coming and could prepare for it.
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16 minutes into the game, only 1 expo taken by your team, no scouting done beyond initial workers and floating 1200 minerals? Seems like you have more serious problems than that nuke dot.
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On May 12 2011 21:44 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 21:36 Qweasdzxc wrote:
when playing as a red protoss, i beleive the nuclear dot is pretty much invisible if it gets launched on the red parts of your nexus. is this as intended too? You can change your colours in game to make yourself green, and your opponent red. So if you spawn as red toss, just switch the colours! Considering that a nuke dot is already pretty much invisible to me on any grass-themed map, switching from red to green is not gonna help.
Making the default colors red and green has to be a joke from blizzard aimed at colorblind people. Then throwing in a red/orange nuke dot on a greenish background, hidden by buildings/health bars, makes it a terrible game mechanic.
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On May 12 2011 23:14 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 21:44 goiflin wrote:On May 12 2011 21:36 Qweasdzxc wrote:
when playing as a red protoss, i beleive the nuclear dot is pretty much invisible if it gets launched on the red parts of your nexus. is this as intended too? You can change your colours in game to make yourself green, and your opponent red. So if you spawn as red toss, just switch the colours! Considering that a nuke dot is already pretty much invisible to me on any grass-themed map, switching from red to green is not gonna help. Making the default colors red and green has to be a joke from blizzard aimed at colorblind people. Then throwing in a red/orange nuke dot on a greenish background, hidden by buildings/health bars, makes it a terrible game mechanic.
It's not a joke played by blizz, it's a relic from BW. Those were the colours that were defaulted to when you turned this option on.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there multiple types of colour blindness? Like, some people can't see one colour, but others can while missing out on other colours? Wouldn't it be theoretically impossible to appease everyone who's colour blind when it comes to choosing a colour for the dot (or the races)?
Unless you're suggesting that they make it somehow more noticeable, which I disagree with completely. It's not like nukes are extremely prominent, anyway.
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I couldn't see it on any of those picks except barely on the last one. You'd have to have eagle eyes to see that in game while checking through all your bases. My vision is >20/20 btw (I can almost read the copyright from the test distance at the eye doctor!)
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On May 12 2011 20:55 Aelip wrote:
You didn't even look around for it. You didn't check your mineral line and you didn't move your army to show it. It's meant to be hidden, the thing is easy enough to dodge as it is, no reason to make it easier.
Thanks, but this isn't a strategy forum post. I didn't look around for it because I "knew" where I thought it would be. The point of this post is I was looking right at it the whole time but it didn't show up. Usually nukes have a red dot where they're going to hit. I just showed that they don't show up when behind a unit's status bar.
On May 12 2011 21:56 CarachAngren wrote:
You really just need to move your army and check min lines. The nuke dot is small to make it a viable strategy. But also, looking at that screenshot...you didn't have any scouting done except for an initial worker. If you had scouted you would have potentially seen that ghosts are coming and could prepare for it.
I acknowledge I should have been better at the game. If you would like to help me with my strategy, please watch the replay. I knew ghosts were coming. I "knew" where the nuke was going, I just thought the ghost got killed.
On May 12 2011 22:21 Mercury- wrote:
16 minutes into the game, only 1 expo taken by your team, no scouting done beyond initial workers and floating 1200 minerals? Seems like you have more serious problems than that nuke dot.
Gee thanks Captain Obvious, you win the thread. Except, it wasn't me floating 1200 minerals (edit: It was me, fml), there was scouting done beyond initial workers, and I already acknowledged my gameplay is terrible. It seems you failed to watch the replay or read the thread. But thanks for your attempt at humor or bm, whatever that is.
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On May 12 2011 23:59 etherwar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 21:56 CarachAngren wrote:
You really just need to move your army and check min lines. The nuke dot is small to make it a viable strategy. But also, looking at that screenshot...you didn't have any scouting done except for an initial worker. If you had scouted you would have potentially seen that ghosts are coming and could prepare for it. I acknowledge I should have been better at the game. If you would like to help me with my strategy, please watch the replay. I knew ghosts were coming. I "knew" where the nuke was going, I just thought the ghost got killed.
I always check for multiple ghosts when I hear a nuke launching, since I once had a guy use three ghosts in three different spots, two of which were just chillin'. He really wanted to get a nuke off ;_;
Oh, and you can check the ghosts' animation when you detect him. If he's holding his rifle forward, but not firing, he's the launcher. Otherwise, you haven't found the proper ghost yet.
On May 12 2011 23:59 etherwar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 22:21 Mercury- wrote:
16 minutes into the game, only 1 expo taken by your team, no scouting done beyond initial workers and floating 1200 minerals? Seems like you have more serious problems than that nuke dot. Gee thanks Captain Obvious, you win the thread. Except, it wasn't me floating 1200 minerals, there was scouting done beyond initial workers, and I already acknowledged my gameplay is terrible. It seems you failed to watch the replay or read the thread. But thanks for your attempt at humor or bm, whatever that is.
By your description, you're blue protoss, unless you're red terran, and you think you own your allies stalkers and WG's. The little picture in the top right, beside those 1200 minerals? Blue protoss.
Not that it matters either way. The discussion here is nukes.
At least you'll know from now on to hold alt when you're checking for nukes, right? 
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On May 12 2011 23:59 etherwar wrote:
Thanks, but this isn't a strategy forum post. I didn't look around for it because I "knew" where I thought it would be. The point of this post is I was looking right at it the whole time but it didn't show up. Usually nukes have a red dot where they're going to hit. I just showed that they don't show up when behind a unit's status bar.
You say you "knew" where you thought it would be...... thats different from knowing where it is, why didn't you move? When you hear a nuke go off, you should immediately move your army a safe distance from where it was, just in case. Never make an assumption that you know where the nuke is, unless you actually do know (i.e you can see the dot). This game is about information, if you haven't seen something, you never KNOW for sure.
I learned this lesson the hard way, I nuked an enemy at the exact same time he nuked me. It was pretty insane, he moved his army instinctively, I didn't.... guess who's army got blown up?
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So many people on their soapbox critiquing your play.."you should've done this" "just do that" and other off-topic bullshit when all the while he was asking a simple question about if the red dot should be visible above the health bars.
I say excellent OP and a fair question to ask the masses (which obviously will always include some people who don't even answer the question but bring up something outside of the scope of the question)
But, I do think, as a brotoss, that the dot should not be visible over the health bars.
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On May 12 2011 23:51 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 23:14 Pwere wrote:On May 12 2011 21:44 goiflin wrote:On May 12 2011 21:36 Qweasdzxc wrote:
when playing as a red protoss, i beleive the nuclear dot is pretty much invisible if it gets launched on the red parts of your nexus. is this as intended too? You can change your colours in game to make yourself green, and your opponent red. So if you spawn as red toss, just switch the colours! Considering that a nuke dot is already pretty much invisible to me on any grass-themed map, switching from red to green is not gonna help. Making the default colors red and green has to be a joke from blizzard aimed at colorblind people. Then throwing in a red/orange nuke dot on a greenish background, hidden by buildings/health bars, makes it a terrible game mechanic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there multiple types of colour blindness? Like, some people can't see one colour, but others can while missing out on other colours? Wouldn't it be theoretically impossible to appease everyone who's colour blind when it comes to choosing a colour for the dot (or the races)? Unless you're suggesting that they make it somehow more noticeable, which I disagree with completely. It's not like nukes are extremely prominent, anyway. Yes, there are, but it doesn't work entirely like that. But in any case, they could appeal to everyone simply by offering two options (green/red or yellow/blue).
And it's not really that you cannot see a color. It's closer to colors interfering with each others. I'm fairly certain that we see every color, but it's really, really hard when they are bunched up together with similar intensity. The early morning sun makes it easy to distinguish them all, but a dimly lit nightclub makes it so you can't tell flashy green from deep pink.
As for the dot, no, I'd suggest they remove it entirely. If i don't see it, no one should =)
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It should show up on top imo.
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On May 12 2011 18:20 MetalSlug wrote:
you should have moved your army regardles.
Also the red dot is actually showing infront of Healthbar for me...
Sorry I missed this to begin with. This is actually very important and the most interesting type of response. So, you downloaded the replay and the dot is showing up on top of the health bars? Would you be willing to give details of your graphics settings?
If this is showing up on top of the health bars for some people, and not showing up for others, this might be an issue.
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On May 13 2011 00:18 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 23:59 etherwar wrote:
Thanks, but this isn't a strategy forum post. I didn't look around for it because I "knew" where I thought it would be. The point of this post is I was looking right at it the whole time but it didn't show up. Usually nukes have a red dot where they're going to hit. I just showed that they don't show up when behind a unit's status bar.
You say you "knew" where you thought it would be...... thats different from knowing where it is, why didn't you move? When you hear a nuke go off, you should immediately move your army a safe distance from where it was, just in case. Never make an assumption that you know where the nuke is, unless you actually do know (i.e you can see the dot). This game is about information, if you haven't seen something, you never KNOW for sure. I learned this lesson the hard way, I nuked an enemy at the exact same time he nuked me. It was pretty insane, he moved his army instinctively, I didn't.... guess who's army got blown up?
I appreciate the advice. I agree, and I will move my army from now on (which is what I resolved to do before even thinking about writing this post). At the time I was worried the nuke was going where I would have moved my army (towards my ally's natural). Looking back, he had missile turrets up and the ghost wouldn't have been able to remain cloaked over there.
Edit: However, this wasn't a QQ post or a strategy post. I learned from the game, I was just asking a simple question regarding the nuke dot being hidden behind the health/status bar.
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On May 13 2011 00:09 goiflin wrote:By your description, you're blue protoss, unless you're red terran, and you think you own your allies stalkers and WG's. The little picture in the top right, beside those 1200 minerals? Blue protoss. Not that it matters either way. The discussion here is nukes. At least you'll know from now on to hold alt when you're checking for nukes, right?
You're right, it was I who was floating mins for the last 2 minutes of the game. I edited my post to reflect that I was wrong.
You're also right that it doesn't matter either way, because the dot could have been behind a building's status bar.
I know my play is bad, in my mind that doesn't have anything to do with whether or not nuke warning dots should show up in front of or behind status bars.
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EPT
