EDIT: With the recent patch, this method has become outdated. No more short-cuts. If you're still interested in doing it, you're going to need some patience for trial and error. Visit the blog below to learn how to do this the more advanced way.
After reading about folder prioritising not being directly mentioned in the ToS and a friend of mine wanting a Ghost to Nova sexchange, due to Nova being so much more of a baller than Ghost, I realised how easy it would be to share things like this now that people don't need to touch their mpqs. That said, just because this isn't in the ToS doesn't mean Blizz won't take actions. It still says that they can ban anyone for any reason. While the risk is very low, do it at your own risk.
So, here it goes. A fully model swapped version. Everything working just like it should apart from the portrait which I had to keep 2D. It turns out campaign portraits are ridiculously more complicated than multiplayers'.
Just extract the two folders in the download to C:\Program Files (x86)\StarCraft II\Mods\LibertyMulti.SC2Mod
You'll need to rename the folder enGB.SC2Assets in the download to whatever region you're playing on.
If you want to learn how to make your own model edits, such as Dark Templar to Zeratul or Hydralisk to Kerrigan etc, I've written a tutorial on how it's all done.
Better enjoy it while it lasts. This will be abused by people to change other units so you can see them a lot easier, possibly making them easier to select as well. I am pretty sure Blizzard will change the way the models work eventually. Blizzard "soon" that is.
On May 07 2011 06:22 KhAlleB wrote: i wonder what happen if you play vs some1 else without this, will the game crash, will he see nova or will he see a ghost
The game won't crash. He'll see a normal ghost. If he makes his own ghost, you'll see Nova. Can't go wrong with moar Nova.
So you can change the models of units? If you were a toss player you could make the ghost something that is much easier to see, so you can feedback them faster. Am I missing something here?
On May 07 2011 06:19 OneBk wrote: is this allowed to use by blizzard? i mean its cool and all.. but cant you get banned for this?
OP just says it's not against the ToS. :|
Wierd, it definitly was in Wow.
With WoW model editing, you were directly modifying game files and replacing them with customisations. This replaces nothing. The default Ghost assets remain in place and no file has been tampered with.
1) Don't post my name everywhere. Because... read (2) 2) Because I can't guarantee, that its not 100% against ToS. And I've never said, that it's not. I said, that they haven't said anything about this,and my friend has phoned into tech support and got reply from Blizzard guy, that players can change anything, that does not gives them any advatange in multiplayer or for giving achievements.
So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
Sure, why not?
It won't work at any offline event, and ladder doesn't matter.
So you can change the models of units? If you were a toss player you could make the ghost something that is much easier to see, so you can feedback them faster. Am I missing something here?
You can't change size of unit. You can't make him visible, because cloacked unit (with ANY texture, BRIGHTNESS PINK or rainbow or any other will still looks same, as standart cloacked unit from enemy eyes) You can only change unit textures. Again, if unit cloacked, he will still has cloack effect (light-blue, if detected and from your eyes, or small distornition, if not detected, like any other stealth unit)
Wierd, it definitly was in Wow.
Of course, maybe because peoples used that for take faster any achievement, or win the game, or maphack ?
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
On May 07 2011 06:32 MaxwelsDemoN wrote: So you can change the models of units? If you were a toss player you could make the ghost something that is much easier to see, so you can feedback them faster. Am I missing something here?
The file I'm providing doesn't give a player any advantage/disadvantage over another. If someone else was to make their own file that did such a thing, that's not my problem.
So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
Unit size will still same, so you still can missclick.
And I think, you're better to change something, that does not give you advatange, small or big, but gives. Or blizzard will take more attention about this and will start ban everything, who changed only overmind voice, 1 unit sound, loading screen or more, or they will start ban everything, who posted in that topic.
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
Sure, why not?
It won't work at any offline event, and ladder doesn't matter.
Couldn't tell if you were trolling him or what but if you weren't your totally wrong by saying ladder doesn't matter and that makes no sense, your post didn't answer him at all. He pointed out it would be easier to hit key units to get a huge edge in games and that would be a yes. The fact that you think ladder doesn't matter isn't the info he was asking for...
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
Or just change the DT model to an Ultralisk...
An invisible ultralisk. I'm pretty sure that the cloaked aspect of units and their models are separate. Still, the shimmer of an invisible ultralisk would be easier to notice..
1) Don't post my name everywhere. Because... read (2) 2) Because I can't guarantee, that its not 100% against ToS. And I've never said, that it's not. I said, that they haven't said anything about this,and my friend has phoned into tech support and got reply from Blizzard guy, that players can change anything, that does not gives them any advatange in multiplayer or for giving achievements.
Removed the link to your thread. Wasn't intending to put any risk towards you, just providing credit.
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
Sure, why not?
It won't work at any offline event, and ladder doesn't matter.
Blizzard is fine with things that do not give you an advantage. Changing the model of the Ghost to Nova is not an advantage. It is purely visual. In WoW people would edit the MPQ so their character would look cool or better at any level if they knew what they were doing. It did not give them extra stats.
Blizzard did no banning on people who edited Textures. How ever they did ban people who abused model editing to gain an advantage. Such as making the flag in WSG bigger so they can grab it from 50 yards away, or altering the terrain so they could run through it and nobody would be able to attack/see them. This would be the equivalent to the warp in Immortals, where someone edited to game files back to where they were in Alpha. He didn't actually make the code, he just used Blizzard code so it wasn't so easily detected.
Cheating to gain an advantage will get you banned.
Fun to have things or more visually pleasing will not.
Cheating to gain an advantage will get you banned.
Fun to have things or more visually pleasing will not.
You can get an advantage by just changing visuals. In WoW people would change the model of mining nodes to Ragnaros, so they could see them from far away. In SC2 you could let the Ghost use the Ultralisk model so it would be easier to spot and feedback them in the middle of a bio ball. Model changing can clearly be a bannable offense.
Cheating to gain an advantage will get you banned.
Fun to have things or more visually pleasing will not.
You can get an advantage by just changing visuals. In WoW people would change the model of mining nodes to Ragnaros, so they could see them from far away. In SC2 you could let the Ghost use the Ultralisk model so it would be easier to spot and feedback them in the middle of a bio ball. Model changing can clearly be a bannable offense.
I'm pretty sure both of what you listed is cheating to gain an advantage. [EDIT HERE]: Should go further into this explanation.
In WoW when you edited the model size/model in general you could be able to click on that model. So running up to the node the size of Ragnaros and being able to click it from far away was bannable. Being able to see it from a distance wasn't. You could easily have an add-on do that as well. In SC2 I'm sure the model thing would be about the same where you can click any part of the model and be able to click on it. This is obviously a bad idea and shouldn't be done because there is no distance in the game from where your view is to that model. So doing this would always result in an advantage and bannable offense. But changing the Ghost to Nova model is less of a risk because they're still about the same size. It's like DT1 and DT2. They're both different and you still click the same general area to target them.
I'm talking about texture edits when it comes to visually pleasing. The "Fun to have part" is always on the iffy spot.
The reason Fun is always on the iffy part is because you ask yourself, "Is this against the rules?" and if you have to ask yourself then it usually is. Basically in WoW it was against the rules to model edit for an advantage. Personally I changed my Human male to Night Elf male using model edits. The only downside was every Human Male was also a Night Elf. Which made the game less fun, so I didn't do it as much. Model editing isn't usually fun and should never be done to take advantage of the game.
So I actually see no glaring issue with changing the model of the Male Ghost to a Female Ghost. they're both about the same size, and clicking it doesn't really give you an advantage or disadvantage. It'd be about the same if Blizzard implemented RNG Male or Female Ghost spawns.
Addition: The Battle.net Terms of Service state the following (Point 2) You agree that you will not, under any circumstances: (...) 2.7 modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of any Game or the Service in any way not expressly authorized by Blizzard
I don't know if people got banned for it, but I know that Blizzard definitely frowned upon model-editing in WoW, even if it wasn't something that affected gameplay. They delete any thread discussing the subject on their official forums, which kind of makes me think it's not allowed.
Cheating to gain an advantage will get you banned.
Fun to have things or more visually pleasing will not.
You can get an advantage by just changing visuals. In WoW people would change the model of mining nodes to Ragnaros, so they could see them from far away. In SC2 you could let the Ghost use the Ultralisk model so it would be easier to spot and feedback them in the middle of a bio ball. Model changing can clearly be a bannable offense.
I'm pretty sure both of what you listed is cheating to gain an advantage.
I'm talking about texture edits when it comes to visually pleasing. The "Fun to have part" is always on the iffy spot.
This in a nutshell. Read KoKoRos post more carefully, blackone. What you describe blatantly provides an advantage over other players, the exact opposite to what KoKoRo was saying would be safe.
On May 07 2011 07:17 blackone wrote: Addition: The Battle.net Terms of Service state the following (Point 2) You agree that you will not, under any circumstances: (...) 2.7 modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of any Game or the Service in any way not expressly authorized by Blizzard
If someone downloads this, how are they modifying Blizzards files? They're putting more files into the SC2 directory. At no point are Blizzards files interfered with.
Cheating to gain an advantage will get you banned.
Fun to have things or more visually pleasing will not.
You can get an advantage by just changing visuals. In WoW people would change the model of mining nodes to Ragnaros, so they could see them from far away. In SC2 you could let the Ghost use the Ultralisk model so it would be easier to spot and feedback them in the middle of a bio ball. Model changing can clearly be a bannable offense.
I'm pretty sure both of what you listed is cheating to gain an advantage.
I'm talking about texture edits when it comes to visually pleasing. The "Fun to have part" is always on the iffy spot.
This in a nutshell. Read KoKoRos post more carefully, blackone. What you describe blatantly provides an advantage over other players, the exact opposite to what KoKoRo was saying would be safe.
That's a misunderstanding, I didn't mean to compare the two things or say that having your ghost be a nova is cheating, I just tried to explain that a purely visual change can still provide an unfair advantage. I was quoting KoKoRos because his examples for something that would get you banned were all implicating that you get an advantage by changing models in a way that changes their behavior and I wanted to add that this is not necessary for something to be banworthy.
On May 07 2011 07:17 blackone wrote: Addition: The Battle.net Terms of Service state the following (Point 2) You agree that you will not, under any circumstances: (...) 2.7 modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of any Game or the Service in any way not expressly authorized by Blizzard
If someone downloads this, how are they modifying Blizzards files? They're putting more files into the SC2 directory. At no point are Blizzards files interfered with.
The files they download are modified files from the game, aren't they? Anyways, I'm not sure if this is a violation of the ToS or not, but I think it could be interpreted as one and I recommend not risking your account for some cute visuals.
On May 07 2011 07:18 corpuscle wrote: I don't know if people got banned for it, but I know that Blizzard definitely frowned upon model-editing in WoW, even if it wasn't something that affected gameplay. They delete any thread discussing the subject on their official forums, which kind of makes me think it's not allowed.
In the same sense that casinos don't like card counters.
On May 07 2011 07:18 corpuscle wrote: I don't know if people got banned for it, but I know that Blizzard definitely frowned upon model-editing in WoW, even if it wasn't something that affected gameplay. They delete any thread discussing the subject on their official forums, which kind of makes me think it's not allowed.
If they didn't take action to people discussing it on the forums, people would assume it's ok and everyone would be doing it. Just because they try to keep it as quiet as possible doesn't mean they go banning everyone who's only in it for the looks and not after an exploitable advantage.
Cheating to gain an advantage will get you banned.
Fun to have things or more visually pleasing will not.
You can get an advantage by just changing visuals. In WoW people would change the model of mining nodes to Ragnaros, so they could see them from far away. In SC2 you could let the Ghost use the Ultralisk model so it would be easier to spot and feedback them in the middle of a bio ball. Model changing can clearly be a bannable offense.
I'm pretty sure both of what you listed is cheating to gain an advantage.
I'm talking about texture edits when it comes to visually pleasing. The "Fun to have part" is always on the iffy spot.
This in a nutshell. Read KoKoRos post more carefully, blackone. What you describe blatantly provides an advantage over other players, the exact opposite to what KoKoRo was saying would be safe.
That's a misunderstanding, I didn't mean to compare the two things or say that having your ghost be a nova is cheating, I just tried to explain that a purely visual change can still provide an unfair advantage.
Yeah, I edited my post.
If you can click the Ultralisk Ghost from anywhere but where the Ghost Model should be then it'd be cheating. If you had to click the Ultralisk Ghost in the same spot as where the ghost would be in order to click it, it wouldn't be cheating. It'd just be easier for you to see and would still obstruct the view of the units around it. Which can mess with you more than it helps you.
But yes, Blizzard frowns upon Model editing(as in certain cases helps you or causes you more problems than it solves) and doesn't really care for texture edits.
On May 07 2011 07:34 KoKoRo wrote:If you had to click the Ultralisk Ghost in the same spot as where the ghost would be in order to click it, it wouldn't be cheating. It'd just be easier for you to see and would still obstruct the view of the units around it. Which can mess with you more than it helps you.
Ok the difference is, I think it would be cheating nevertheless. You're getting an advantage by being able to see them more easily than the game engine would allow without modification.
Although I really like the way Nova looks in the place of the ghost I don't want to risk getting an account banned, also cool background in your sc2 main menu, I've also heard you can possibly get into trouble with that as well. Even if nobody ever gets in trouble with those things I personally wont risk it, but nonetheless gj on finding out how and giving everyone something to think about.
On May 07 2011 07:34 KoKoRo wrote:If you had to click the Ultralisk Ghost in the same spot as where the ghost would be in order to click it, it wouldn't be cheating. It'd just be easier for you to see and would still obstruct the view of the units around it. Which can mess with you more than it helps you.
Ok the difference is, I think it would be cheating nevertheless. You're getting an advantage by being able to see them more easily than the game engine would allow without modification.
That's usually the case when you misuse/abuse model editing.
But most of the texture editing, changing important units to bright flashy colors, don't really give you an advantage just because you can personally see them better.
Cheating to gain an advantage will get you banned.
Fun to have things or more visually pleasing will not.
You can get an advantage by just changing visuals. In WoW people would change the model of mining nodes to Ragnaros, so they could see them from far away. In SC2 you could let the Ghost use the Ultralisk model so it would be easier to spot and feedback them in the middle of a bio ball. Model changing can clearly be a bannable offense.
I'm pretty sure both of what you listed is cheating to gain an advantage.
I'm talking about texture edits when it comes to visually pleasing. The "Fun to have part" is always on the iffy spot.
This in a nutshell. Read KoKoRos post more carefully, blackone. What you describe blatantly provides an advantage over other players, the exact opposite to what KoKoRo was saying would be safe.
That's a misunderstanding, I didn't mean to compare the two things or say that having your ghost be a nova is cheating, I just tried to explain that a purely visual change can still provide an unfair advantage. I was quoting KoKoRos because his examples for something that would get you banned were all implicating that you get an advantage by changing models in a way that changes their behavior and I wanted to add that this is not necessary for something to be banworthy.
On May 07 2011 07:17 blackone wrote: Addition: The Battle.net Terms of Service state the following (Point 2) You agree that you will not, under any circumstances: (...) 2.7 modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of any Game or the Service in any way not expressly authorized by Blizzard
If someone downloads this, how are they modifying Blizzards files? They're putting more files into the SC2 directory. At no point are Blizzards files interfered with.
The files they download are modified files from the game, aren't they? Anyways, I'm not sure if this is a violation of the ToS or not, but I think it could be interpreted as one and I recommend not risking your account for some cute visuals.
I'm aware that's it's possible for someone to make an exploit out of model editing if they so choose, but I'm not providing anything that does such a thing. I'm not disagreeing with you that it is possible to be exploited, but this change doesn't do anything of the sort.
On May 07 2011 07:38 Xkalibert wrote: This mod will make terran use more ghost than 150/150 change to 200/100 in next Patch. Blizzard should change ghosts to females.
On May 07 2011 07:18 corpuscle wrote: I don't know if people got banned for it, but I know that Blizzard definitely frowned upon model-editing in WoW, even if it wasn't something that affected gameplay. They delete any thread discussing the subject on their official forums, which kind of makes me think it's not allowed.
In the same sense that casinos don't like card counters.
And being caught card counting, or even being suspected of it will get you kicked out and possibly banned, I was removed from a Casino in London for this very reason.... I was winning at blackjack too much, they knew I was using a system of some kind. I use a +- system that i can do in my head to help me work out whether i should hit or not once over 11.
Luckily, since card counting is only technically illegal when you use a mechanical aid or a second person, I was politely asked to cash out and left without any trouble.
On topic,
Modifying files can mean simply adding files to the directory, it means whatever blizz decides it means. What if I make the HT's model really stand out in a ball? that gives me an advantage, this is why modding models is a grey area, some mods aren't gonna give you an advantage, but the same process could make things much easier for you if so wished to cheat.
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
Or just change the DT model to an Ultralisk...
Someone please make a guide on how to turn Zerglings into Ultralisks.
That's usually the case when you misuse/abuse model editing.
But most of the texture editing, changing important units to bright flashy colors, don't really give you an advantage just because you can personally see them better.
huh? let me try to wrap my brain around what you just said.
if you see something one way then change something so you now see something "better" then by definition you have an advantage.. you said it yourself. you see it BETTER!!!!
EDIT: this is an extremely slippery slope, i cant imagine Blizzard would create such a grey area with regards to editing/replacing their game models. best to just not allow any of it and ban anyone who does anything like this regardless if it for personal preference or to purposefully gain an advantage. either way you spin it, you get an advantage.
That's usually the case when you misuse/abuse model editing.
But most of the texture editing, changing important units to bright flashy colors, don't really give you an advantage just because you can personally see them better.
huh? let me try to wrap my brain around what you just said.
if you see something one way then change something so you now see something "better" then by definition you have an advantage.. you said it yourself. you see it BETTER!!!!
It doesn't give you an advantage flat out. I can see Ghosts/HTs fine without texture editing. Why can't you? Do I have an advantage because I can see Ghosts/HTs without texture editing?
EDIT: In grade school in computer class they put rubber over the keyboard so we'd learn to type without looking at the keys. Now the rubber is gone and I don't have to look at the keyboard to see the keys. This is not an advantage, it's muscle memory.
That's usually the case when you misuse/abuse model editing.
But most of the texture editing, changing important units to bright flashy colors, don't really give you an advantage just because you can personally see them better.
huh? let me try to wrap my brain around what you just said.
if you see something one way then change something so you now see something "better" then by definition you have an advantage.. you said it yourself. you see it BETTER!!!!
It doesn't give you an advantage flat out. I can see Ghosts/HTs fine without texture editing. Why can't you? Do I have an advantage because I can see Ghosts/HTs without texture editing?
EDIT: In grade school in computer class they put rubber over the keyboard so we'd learn to type without looking at the keys. Now the rubber is gone and I don't have to look at the keyboard to see the keys. This is not an advantage, it's muscle memory.
I'm not sure how to respond to this without getting banned, so i will remove myself from this conversation.
That's usually the case when you misuse/abuse model editing.
But most of the texture editing, changing important units to bright flashy colors, don't really give you an advantage just because you can personally see them better.
huh? let me try to wrap my brain around what you just said.
if you see something one way then change something so you now see something "better" then by definition you have an advantage.. you said it yourself. you see it BETTER!!!!
It doesn't give you an advantage flat out. I can see Ghosts/HTs fine without texture editing. Why can't you? Do I have an advantage because I can see Ghosts/HTs without texture editing?
EDIT: In grade school in computer class they put rubber over the keyboard so we'd learn to type without looking at the keys. Now the rubber is gone and I don't have to look at the keyboard to see the keys. This is not an advantage, it's muscle memory.
Your argument makes absolutely zero sense. it does not matter if you can see it fine without editing, that is not the point. The point is you can see it BETTER with model editing. I seen this shit happen in back in world of warcraft. It starts with small edits like loading screens. goes back to some worse stuff like changing your race for visual appeal and at that point there WILL be people who abuse it and make it bannable. I don't even see what you are trying to proof with the keyboard typing example...
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
Sure, why not?
It won't work at any offline event, and ladder doesn't matter.
oblivious? There are online tournaments that offer huge cash prizes, modding like this should be illegal.
That's usually the case when you misuse/abuse model editing.
But most of the texture editing, changing important units to bright flashy colors, don't really give you an advantage just because you can personally see them better.
huh? let me try to wrap my brain around what you just said.
if you see something one way then change something so you now see something "better" then by definition you have an advantage.. you said it yourself. you see it BETTER!!!!
It doesn't give you an advantage flat out. I can see Ghosts/HTs fine without texture editing. Why can't you? Do I have an advantage because I can see Ghosts/HTs without texture editing?
EDIT: In grade school in computer class they put rubber over the keyboard so we'd learn to type without looking at the keys. Now the rubber is gone and I don't have to look at the keyboard to see the keys. This is not an advantage, it's muscle memory.
Your argument makes absolutely zero sense. it does not matter if you can see it fine without editing, that is not the point. The point is you can see it BETTER with model editing. I seen this shit happen in back in world of warcraft. It starts with small edits like loading screens. goes back to some worse stuff like changing your race for visual appeal and at that point there WILL be people who abuse it and make it bannable. I don't even see what you are trying to proof with the keyboard typing example...
The keyboard typing example is my own visual ques I have for spotting ghosts or other units of importance in a group of units. It doesn't make it easier for me to click them, but I can still be like, "Oh look, Ghosts." It's the same deal with texture editing. As long as it doesn't model edit into being able to click the unit without trouble, like making it the size of a colossus, there's no problem with texture editing. If you still had to click where the Ghost was instead of the Ghost's model it'd still be legal. Visual fun and Model fun are 2 different things. If you edited the model so you could click it anywhere when it's the size of a colossus it's considered cheating.
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
Sure, why not?
It won't work at any offline event, and ladder doesn't matter.
oblivious? There are online tournaments that offer huge cash prizes, modding like this should be illegal.
Ok? If they are going to use it in online tourneys, whats stopping them from maphacking as well? What about using the minimap enlarger? There are a lot of cheats floating around SC2, editing some colors is a small thing.
I really really hope they start banning people for doing this, sets a terrible precendent if they don't and I don't want to play people who abuse this to edit models / textures to make them more visible or obvious
That's usually the case when you misuse/abuse model editing.
But most of the texture editing, changing important units to bright flashy colors, don't really give you an advantage just because you can personally see them better.
huh? let me try to wrap my brain around what you just said.
if you see something one way then change something so you now see something "better" then by definition you have an advantage.. you said it yourself. you see it BETTER!!!!
It doesn't give you an advantage flat out. I can see Ghosts/HTs fine without texture editing. Why can't you? Do I have an advantage because I can see Ghosts/HTs without texture editing?
EDIT: In grade school in computer class they put rubber over the keyboard so we'd learn to type without looking at the keys. Now the rubber is gone and I don't have to look at the keyboard to see the keys. This is not an advantage, it's muscle memory.
Your argument makes absolutely zero sense. it does not matter if you can see it fine without editing, that is not the point. The point is you can see it BETTER with model editing. I seen this shit happen in back in world of warcraft. It starts with small edits like loading screens. goes back to some worse stuff like changing your race for visual appeal and at that point there WILL be people who abuse it and make it bannable. I don't even see what you are trying to proof with the keyboard typing example...
The keyboard typing example is my own visual ques I have for spotting ghosts or other units of importance in a group of units. It doesn't make it easier for me to click them, but I can still be like, "Oh look, Ghosts." It's the same deal with texture editing. As long as it doesn't model edit into being able to click the unit without trouble, like making it the size of a colossus, there's no problem with texture editing. If you still had to click where the Ghost was instead of the Ghost's model it'd still be legal. Visual fun and Model fun are 2 different things. If you edited the model so you could click it anywhere when it's the size of a colossus it's considered cheating.
Do you honestly do not see the problem here?Let's say i make ghosts or high templar's bright pink.Would you argue that you see them as good as when the normal textures? Its about spotting them and since they are bright pink you can click better on them since they stand out so much.
That's usually the case when you misuse/abuse model editing.
But most of the texture editing, changing important units to bright flashy colors, don't really give you an advantage just because you can personally see them better.
huh? let me try to wrap my brain around what you just said.
if you see something one way then change something so you now see something "better" then by definition you have an advantage.. you said it yourself. you see it BETTER!!!!
It doesn't give you an advantage flat out. I can see Ghosts/HTs fine without texture editing. Why can't you? Do I have an advantage because I can see Ghosts/HTs without texture editing?
EDIT: In grade school in computer class they put rubber over the keyboard so we'd learn to type without looking at the keys. Now the rubber is gone and I don't have to look at the keyboard to see the keys. This is not an advantage, it's muscle memory.
Your argument makes absolutely zero sense. it does not matter if you can see it fine without editing, that is not the point. The point is you can see it BETTER with model editing. I seen this shit happen in back in world of warcraft. It starts with small edits like loading screens. goes back to some worse stuff like changing your race for visual appeal and at that point there WILL be people who abuse it and make it bannable. I don't even see what you are trying to proof with the keyboard typing example...
Clocked units re-skinned O_O! or even, make the units with energy a bright color for easy targeting..
Personally I am fine with it though, make sc2 harder plz.
You have people who do it for fun and not for cheating, you have people who see it all as cheating, and you have people who do not want to do it out of fear of being banned.
The people who do it for fun don't generally get banned for doing it. Why not? Because they're not breaking rules to have an advantage at the game. they don't think, "I hope I don't get banned for doing this." That stops any logical person from doing something questionable in the first place. These are the people who want to enhance their gaming experience in the fun factor. I played WoW for more years than I would've liked to because I could change things in the game without being banned and there was really no other benefit than that I liked to do it. It kept me playing and Blizzard didn't stop me or most people from doing it as long as it didn't interfere with other players or give me an advantage. That's not to say I went around shouting in peoples faces, "LOL Hey guys I modded the game so you all look stupid LOL!" I kept it pretty secretive and anybody that asked me questions about it got a straight answer.
The people who see it all as cheating like to think the game is just the game and everything should be the same for everyone. If it's boring for them they should go do something else. Obviously. But no, look at games that allow modding. Minecraft for example you can mod to any extent you want and Notch may or may not put your ideas into the final version of the game. I'm not too big into Civilization but from what I heard there was a major modding community that made that game what it is today. Although the Civilization one effected everyone playing, I will still hold it as a point. Either way these are the people who value game play and fairness over fun. So they kill joy on the people who like to mod their stuff to keep them interested in said game.
The people who don't want to be banned just want to play the game. Whether they're being cheated or not, they just don't care as long as they think they're playing fairly. Which is nice. This is the mindset you should have when playing a game or modding. I'm more than certain people who cheat don't actually admit that them having hacks is unfair. They know they're taking advantage of things they shouldn't and should be banned. This could fall under people who don't want to be banned by accidentally doing something they didn't intend to do. Which was cheat. They should stay away from modding altogether unless it's the last option to keep them interested in a game.
If you think it's bad, don't do it. If you want answers for why some people get away with it then ask them why it's 'okay' for them and not others. Don't go all morals on someone saying, "Yeah man it's against the ToS and cheating, you're gonna get soooo banned." That's not gonna stop people at all from doing it. Just report it to Blizzard and let them deal with it. You should know better. Blizzard doesn't actively check the files you do edit unless the file is not directly loaded with their SC2 files. Warden picks up third party programs and tells Blizzard what exactly is going on. It's not a, "File Corrupt instaban" or "File Changed ban/warning" type deal. Blizzard checks to see if it runs smoothly with the rest of their files and then checks to see if it gives you an unfair advantage. In the past Warden instabanned several accounts that used 3rd party programs to run SC2/WoW for this reason. It was not an Original SC2/WoW file being used to activate the game.
Now I don't actually know how hacks/cheats work for SC2 but I assume 99% of them are 'undetectable 3rd party programs"
P.S. don't use what I say as a reference point, I'm not a Blizzard employee and I'm only taking shots in the dark as to how their system works.
That's usually the case when you misuse/abuse model editing.
But most of the texture editing, changing important units to bright flashy colors, don't really give you an advantage just because you can personally see them better.
huh? let me try to wrap my brain around what you just said.
if you see something one way then change something so you now see something "better" then by definition you have an advantage.. you said it yourself. you see it BETTER!!!!
It doesn't give you an advantage flat out. I can see Ghosts/HTs fine without texture editing. Why can't you? Do I have an advantage because I can see Ghosts/HTs without texture editing?
EDIT: In grade school in computer class they put rubber over the keyboard so we'd learn to type without looking at the keys. Now the rubber is gone and I don't have to look at the keyboard to see the keys. This is not an advantage, it's muscle memory.
Your argument makes absolutely zero sense. it does not matter if you can see it fine without editing, that is not the point. The point is you can see it BETTER with model editing. I seen this shit happen in back in world of warcraft. It starts with small edits like loading screens. goes back to some worse stuff like changing your race for visual appeal and at that point there WILL be people who abuse it and make it bannable. I don't even see what you are trying to proof with the keyboard typing example...
The keyboard typing example is my own visual ques I have for spotting ghosts or other units of importance in a group of units. It doesn't make it easier for me to click them, but I can still be like, "Oh look, Ghosts." It's the same deal with texture editing. As long as it doesn't model edit into being able to click the unit without trouble, like making it the size of a colossus, there's no problem with texture editing. If you still had to click where the Ghost was instead of the Ghost's model it'd still be legal. Visual fun and Model fun are 2 different things. If you edited the model so you could click it anywhere when it's the size of a colossus it's considered cheating.
Do you honestly do not see the problem here?Let's say i make ghosts or high templar's bright pink.Would you argue that you see them as good as when the normal textures? Its about spotting them and since they are bright pink you can click better on them since they stand out so much.
You cannot click them any better or worse. They are the same size. Drop this silliness.
The keyboard typing example is my own visual ques I have for spotting ghosts or other units of importance in a group of units. It doesn't make it easier for me to click them, but I can still be like, "Oh look, Ghosts." It's the same deal with texture editing. As long as it doesn't model edit into being able to click the unit without trouble, like making it the size of a colossus, there's no problem with texture editing. If you still had to click where the Ghost was instead of the Ghost's model it'd still be legal. Visual fun and Model fun are 2 different things. If you edited the model so you could click it anywhere when it's the size of a colossus it's considered cheating.
And what stops someone under that theory from using a model for say a dark shrine with spikes that stick out half across the map for easy scouting? even if you cant click on it, there is still an advantage to be had as the visual is adjusted to an extent it makes it easier to react to.
Even if a ghost is made to look like a colossus, there is still an advantage to be made as they are made easy to spot within an army, even if the hitbox is the same.
The problem is there is no way for blizzard to tell if a modification is like the ops with no added advantage, or if its like the above mentioned.. so to ban for both should and im sure down the line will be the case.
On May 07 2011 08:53 KoKoRo wrote: You cannot click them any better or worse. They are the same size. Drop this silliness.
I don't know why you seem to be arguing that this is the only thing that matters - its not. Swapping a DT model with an Ultralisk makes it far easier to see than unmodified, which is a big advantage. It really doesn't matter if you have to click perfectly or not.
The keyboard typing example is my own visual ques I have for spotting ghosts or other units of importance in a group of units. It doesn't make it easier for me to click them, but I can still be like, "Oh look, Ghosts." It's the same deal with texture editing. As long as it doesn't model edit into being able to click the unit without trouble, like making it the size of a colossus, there's no problem with texture editing. If you still had to click where the Ghost was instead of the Ghost's model it'd still be legal. Visual fun and Model fun are 2 different things. If you edited the model so you could click it anywhere when it's the size of a colossus it's considered cheating.
And what stops someone under that theory from using a model for say a dark shrine with spikes that stick out half across the map for easy scouting? even if you cant click on it, there is still an advantage to be had as the visual is adjusted to an extent it makes it easier to react to.
The problem with this is you'd have to actually see the base model first.
On May 07 2011 08:53 KoKoRo wrote: You cannot click them any better or worse. They are the same size. Drop this silliness.
I don't know why you seem to be arguing that this is the only thing that matters - its not. Swapping a DT model with an Ultralisk makes it far easier to see than unmodified, which is a big advantage. It really doesn't matter if you have to click perfectly or not.
I'm arguing against people who are saying texture editing to make something look brighter is easier to click/spot. I can see and click things just fine without texture editing them. So I'm dropping that as a valid argument.
As for Model swaping/editing, there is always some grey area as to what is allowed and what isn't. Basically blizzard wants NO model editing. But they let a lot of slide since it's no advantage. Still I can see a DT running around without having to change its model to an ultralisk either. Just because it's easier to spot something like that doesn't mean it's against the rules, as long as it's still the same difficulty to click.
The keyboard typing example is my own visual ques I have for spotting ghosts or other units of importance in a group of units. It doesn't make it easier for me to click them, but I can still be like, "Oh look, Ghosts." It's the same deal with texture editing. As long as it doesn't model edit into being able to click the unit without trouble, like making it the size of a colossus, there's no problem with texture editing. If you still had to click where the Ghost was instead of the Ghost's model it'd still be legal. Visual fun and Model fun are 2 different things. If you edited the model so you could click it anywhere when it's the size of a colossus it's considered cheating.
And what stops someone under that theory from using a model for say a dark shrine with spikes that stick out half across the map for easy scouting? even if you cant click on it, there is still an advantage to be had as the visual is adjusted to an extent it makes it easier to react to.
The problem with this is you'd have to actually see the base model first.
This. Once scouted, it would stick into your vision, but you still need to scout the bottom 8 hexes or whatever they are.
The keyboard typing example is my own visual ques I have for spotting ghosts or other units of importance in a group of units. It doesn't make it easier for me to click them, but I can still be like, "Oh look, Ghosts." It's the same deal with texture editing. As long as it doesn't model edit into being able to click the unit without trouble, like making it the size of a colossus, there's no problem with texture editing. If you still had to click where the Ghost was instead of the Ghost's model it'd still be legal. Visual fun and Model fun are 2 different things. If you edited the model so you could click it anywhere when it's the size of a colossus it's considered cheating.
And what stops someone under that theory from using a model for say a dark shrine with spikes that stick out half across the map for easy scouting? even if you cant click on it, there is still an advantage to be had as the visual is adjusted to an extent it makes it easier to react to.
The problem with this is you'd have to actually see the base model first.
Indeed, in order to see the spikes, you'd have to have seen the hitbox of the building, which can't be modified. That's just like saying you could make a nexus so big that you could just worker rush it the second the game starts.
The keyboard typing example is my own visual ques I have for spotting ghosts or other units of importance in a group of units. It doesn't make it easier for me to click them, but I can still be like, "Oh look, Ghosts." It's the same deal with texture editing. As long as it doesn't model edit into being able to click the unit without trouble, like making it the size of a colossus, there's no problem with texture editing. If you still had to click where the Ghost was instead of the Ghost's model it'd still be legal. Visual fun and Model fun are 2 different things. If you edited the model so you could click it anywhere when it's the size of a colossus it's considered cheating.
And what stops someone under that theory from using a model for say a dark shrine with spikes that stick out half across the map for easy scouting? even if you cant click on it, there is still an advantage to be had as the visual is adjusted to an extent it makes it easier to react to.
The problem with this is you'd have to actually see the base model first.
Indeed, in order to see the spikes, you'd have to have seen the hitbox of the building, which can't be modified. That's just like saying you could make a nexus so big that you could just worker rush it the second the game starts.
Even so, my point still stands. Blizzard has no way to determine if a model edit is designed to gain an advantage or not.
A mothership is actually the only one I'm not sure about - because you cant cloak motherships (I think? maybe you can in team games rofl) so it might not have a texture for it - but I would be shocked if the cloak texture wasn't an overlay onto normal textures.
On May 07 2011 09:11 KevinIX wrote: That's a good point. Could you swap out an observer model for a mothership? Then it would be obvious as day if there's an observer over your army.
I believe most people will agree, size related model swaps are a grey area and should be frowned upon. While it gives an obvious advantage to see units you wouldn't normally be able to see. While you're not making the actual unit model bigger, you are changing the unit to a bigger unit, it doesn't actually change the fact if it's there or not.
On May 07 2011 09:14 kzn wrote: A mothership is actually the only one I'm not sure about - because you cant cloak motherships (I think? maybe you can in team games rofl) so it might not have a texture for it - but I would be shocked if the cloak texture wasn't an overlay onto normal textures.
You cannot cloak Motherships*, and that is a possibility on how cloak works.
* = Edit: replaced Cloaked units. lolz
Hmmm my first paragraph contradicts itself like a mother:
Let me rephrase.
It may give the illusion of an obvious advantage of seeing a unit you normally would overlook, you're not actually changing the actual unit's model. So it wouldn't change the fact if it's there or not.
I honestly can't give any feedback regarding an observer to mothership replacement because I've no idea what it'd look like. I'll go make it now while you people argue some more.
On May 07 2011 09:36 itsben wrote: So can other people see this or just you? Does this show up in replays? Someone needs to do funday monday with one of these units
On May 07 2011 09:36 itsben wrote: So can other people see this or just you? Does this show up in replays? Someone needs to do funday monday with one of these units
Only you can see it in game and in replays.
If that's true then i don't see how this gives an advantage to either player. How can blizzard ban you if no one can even see it to report you anyway? Seems safe to me if this is true.
On May 07 2011 09:36 itsben wrote: So can other people see this or just you? Does this show up in replays? Someone needs to do funday monday with one of these units
Only you can see it in game and in replays.
If that's true then i don't see how this gives an advantage to either player. How can blizzard ban you if no one can even see it to report you anyway? Seems safe to me if this is true.
Did you read any of the thread?
They are saying if you made ghosts orange, they might be easier for a protoss player who edits the texture to see to use feedback on.
If or not that gives an advantage or a psychological advantage I am not sure.
On May 07 2011 09:36 itsben wrote: So can other people see this or just you? Does this show up in replays? Someone needs to do funday monday with one of these units
Only you can see it in game and in replays.
If that's true then i don't see how this gives an advantage to either player. How can blizzard ban you if no one can even see it to report you anyway? Seems safe to me if this is true.
It's more of a moral argument people are having and stating the fact that it is exploitable. The risk of ban itself is low.
Ok, after experimenting with a model edit change observer to mothership, I've got some results people are looking for. Before I start, I want to make it clear that under no circumstances do I support the use of model editing for an exploitable benefit, I'm simply answering peoples questions. I also don't want other people to get the wrong idea, this is in no way related to my nova file which does not provide any benefit. This is just regarding the shitstorm argument that developed due to the concept of model editing and potential of exploitability.
1. Just because you swap the model of a cloaked unit to something that isn't cloak, does NOT remove the cloak effect.
2. Swapping a small cloaked unit like observer to a mothership DOES increase the size of the cloaked looking effect radius as displayed below on the CC and ebay.
3. By swapping a smaller model to a bigger model or vice versa does NOT change the units actual model size. By this I mean you can't increase the size of a zealot to solo block of an entire ramp as displayed by my mothership flower. These are not on any form of patrol.
4. By increasing the size of a model, you DO increase the radius at which you can click on the unit to target it.
On May 07 2011 10:06 Dommk wrote: Is it possible to model edit the Voidray to the special version that was in the last mission of the Protoss arc in the campaign?
Yes. That model is called VoidRayHero in the mpq archive.
On May 07 2011 10:15 Dommk wrote: Bah, just read your post. Too good to be true (the one about how certain edits actually have a meaningful effect on the game)
Wish Blizzard gave us the option of customizing the units, the Hero Voidray looks really cool
Indeed, pretty annoying that a majority of people are just going to immediately consider this an exploit. I'll make a voidray to voidray hero in a few days. Have to take a break from mpqs for now. Fully transforming Nova took me about 8 hours because I'd no idea what I was doing when I started.
On May 07 2011 10:15 Dommk wrote: Bah, just read your post. Too good to be true (the one about how certain edits actually have a meaningful effect on the game)
Wish Blizzard gave us the option of customizing the units, the Hero Voidray looks really cool
Indeed, pretty annoying that a majority of people are just going to immediately consider this an exploit. I'll make a voidray to voidray hero in a few days. Have to take a break from mpqs for now. Fully transforming Nova took me about 8 hours because I'd no idea what I was doing when I started.
Nobody in their right mind thinks that something like ghost->nova should be an exploit, but the same method (as far as I understand it) allowing observer->mothership with the observer results is obviously an exploit. Unless the two can be distinguished from each other, blizzard really has no option but to patch it somehow.
On May 07 2011 10:15 Dommk wrote: Bah, just read your post. Too good to be true (the one about how certain edits actually have a meaningful effect on the game)
Wish Blizzard gave us the option of customizing the units, the Hero Voidray looks really cool
Indeed, pretty annoying that a majority of people are just going to immediately consider this an exploit. I'll make a voidray to voidray hero in a few days. Have to take a break from mpqs for now. Fully transforming Nova took me about 8 hours because I'd no idea what I was doing when I started.
Nobody in their right mind thinks that something like ghost->nova should be an exploit, but the same method (as far as I understand it) allowing observer->mothership with the observer results is obviously an exploit. Unless the two can be distinguished from each other, blizzard really has no option but to patch it somehow.
I was referring to the general attribute of model editing. As soon as people think about it now, they're going to automatically think exploit. They can't patch this unless they want to rebuild their entire game structure from scratch and rerelease it. This is just how the game was designed. Model editing was around since Vanilla WoW and they haven't been able to stop it now three expansions later.
That should definitely be fixed instantly. If people can make observers look like that, cloaked banshee + viking/marine will be basically an instant win against protoss.
On May 07 2011 11:45 askTeivospy wrote: model editing of any sort should always be considered bannable because it can easily lead to others exploiting it
just play the game how its designed or don't play the game at all. This isn't Source geez
Some people play SC a lot. Some even live off it. It can get tedious having to look at the same stuff game after game. People like change and the only change Blizz is bringing us atm is 2 gate proxy.
Teliko - you must delete now all instructions about model editing, because after what I saw (increased cloacking effect, increased model size, etc), it's ridiculous.
Stop that, I want to play with my Overmind and sc1 music, and don't want, that players will "exploit" thx to me -_-
Don't exploit, it, stop it, please.
Change background - maybe ok, Change ghost texture - maybe ok. Change zerg sounds - maybe ok. Change observer model size and more cloacked effect... nonononono
I was referring to the general attribute of model editing. As soon as people think about it now, they're going to automatically think exploit. They can't patch this unless they want to rebuild their entire game structure from scratch and rerelease it. This is just how the game was designed. Model editing was around since Vanilla WoW and they haven't been able to stop it now three expansions later.
Because....
1) Blizzard don't fix this thing 2) Peoples continue use it 3) Blizzard bans everything, no difference - bnet background or model texture, zerg sound or zerg overmind advisor, they will ban everything 4) Banned peoples going to buy another SC2 copy 5) Blizzard got more moneys
So what the reason to fix thing, that gives you moneys?
I was referring to the general attribute of model editing. As soon as people think about it now, they're going to automatically think exploit. They can't patch this unless they want to rebuild their entire game structure from scratch and rerelease it. This is just how the game was designed. Model editing was around since Vanilla WoW and they haven't been able to stop it now three expansions later.
Because....
1) Blizzard don't fix this thing 2) Peoples continue use it 3) Blizzard bans everything, no difference - bnet background or model texture, zerg sound or zerg overmind advisor, they will ban everything 4) Banned peoples going to buy another SC2 copy 5) Blizzard got more moneys
So what the reason to fix thing, that gives you moneys?
I'm not arguing that they'll fix it, I know they won't, and I don't want them to. I enjoy playing around with game files like the Nova change. Sure, if the ability to mess around with game files is there, it's going to be exploited. But people seem to be forgetting about maphackers and other hacks that are genuinely designed to ruin the game. This is nothing in comparison.
On May 07 2011 11:46 Kokamite wrote: whats the song name?
On May 07 2011 11:45 askTeivospy wrote: model editing of any sort should always be considered bannable because it can easily lead to others exploiting it
just play the game how its designed or don't play the game at all. This isn't Source geez
Some people play SC a lot. Some even live off it. It can get tedious having to look at the same stuff game after game. People like change and the only change Blizz is bringing us atm is 2 gate proxy.
Just because you're getting tedious over the game doesn't mean its fair for people who don't care about graphics to have to worry about all this stupid model editing nonsense in the future. Like I said in that background thread that stuff like this shouldn't be tolerated because of people who want to see what else they can edit and now look what happens you get threads like these and people trying to defend it because they're bored of the game. If you're bored of the game then play something else.
make a custom map if you want to do what you're doing
On May 07 2011 11:45 askTeivospy wrote: model editing of any sort should always be considered bannable because it can easily lead to others exploiting it
just play the game how its designed or don't play the game at all. This isn't Source geez
Some people play SC a lot. Some even live off it. It can get tedious having to look at the same stuff game after game. People like change and the only change Blizz is bringing us atm is 2 gate proxy.
Just because you're getting tedious over the game doesn't mean its fair for people who don't care about graphics to have to worry about all this stupid model editing nonsense in the future. Like I said in that background thread that stuff like this shouldn't be tolerated because of people who want to see what else they can edit and now look what happens you get threads like these and people trying to defend it because they're bored of the game. If you're bored of the game then play something else.
make a custom map if you want to do what you're doing
Throwing a hissy fit at me isn't going to do anything. I'm not the sole provider of model edits, anyone can do it.
This may be obvious for some but I did some building tests for those still sceptical. Increasing the size of a model does not increase how close you need to be in order to see it through fog of war and swapping a building like Dark Shrine with a Nydus network does not allow you to hear when the Dark Shrine is completed regardless of visibility.
On May 07 2011 23:44 Saltyballs wrote: This is the best thing evar. Teliko, you are the best person evar. I luv yew so much, please take all my moneys
While this thread is rather interesting, I can't help but notice the glaring typo in the OP. I am of course referring to "turns our campaign portraits". This should, of course, be "turns out". I am quite eager to read your blog but to be frank, I'm not sure that I could stomach any more of these linguistic lethargies. If Teliko were to be kind enough to take the time to amend his original post, I would be more than happy to try this edit for myself.
Some things people can do on computers/video games still leaves my dumbfounded. How would you even start remodel a character, or change the portraits, or where the folder even existed to do such a thing lol.
That's usually the case when you misuse/abuse model editing.
But most of the texture editing, changing important units to bright flashy colors, don't really give you an advantage just because you can personally see them better.
huh? let me try to wrap my brain around what you just said.
if you see something one way then change something so you now see something "better" then by definition you have an advantage.. you said it yourself. you see it BETTER!!!!
It doesn't give you an advantage flat out. I can see Ghosts/HTs fine without texture editing. Why can't you? Do I have an advantage because I can see Ghosts/HTs without texture editing?
EDIT: In grade school in computer class they put rubber over the keyboard so we'd learn to type without looking at the keys. Now the rubber is gone and I don't have to look at the keyboard to see the keys. This is not an advantage, it's muscle memory.
no advantage... same reason no one ever bothers using brightskins in shooters when possible and people don't get banned for using them when not "available".
Lighting up the key you need would be really beneficial if keyboards didn't happen to be static, If "A" could be allocated to any random spot on your keyboard every single time you need to use it having it bright red would probably help you locate it faster.
And apparently you can use the minimap to auto aim feedback so seeing there is a ghost .5s earlier can mean the world.
Not sure why people are still arguing as to whether or not model editing is potentially exploitable. Of course it is. Anyone who says it isn't is simply wrong.
On May 11 2011 06:20 Ruyguy wrote: Some things people can do on computers/video games still leaves my dumbfounded. How would you even start remodel a character, or change the portraits, or where the folder even existed to do such a thing lol.
Patience and memory. People who do things like this don't have a clue where things are when they first begin, they just need to look through everything. Eventually you'll find the relevant folder/file names for what you're looking for, then it's just trial and error hoping you've found the right thing. After that, you just kinda remember where they are after playing around for a while.
What I don't think anyone has even mentioned yet is whether Blizzard should be banning people for altering their game. Everyone has been saying that they would switch the models and then ladder would be easy but there is ways that Blizzard can check the game files. I feel like they could just restrict people from laddering if the files are out of place or altered while still letting them play custom games.
I mean I know Blizzard wants to make the ladder fair but there has to be a balance between fairness and maintaining customization. Some may argue that the world editor is enough room for changing aspects of the game but I think there is at least an argument to be made for custom HUDs or menu systems. People keep parroting the same ridiculous arguments over and over again about how customization will lead to cheating which is nothing but speculation.
I have always experienced customization as a good thing because there were always utilities developed to protect against cheaters while allowing players to create their own original content. I would like too see Blizzard working towards the goal of making things more open for users rather than being a monolith who is so concerned about creative control that they can't just be psyched that people bought and are playing their game.
I am not naive to think that they don't have a stake in the continued success of SC2 so that is why they want control but I don't think the input of fans would be a detriment. It is just disappointing from my end to see that Blizzard might end up with the classic Activision philosophy of milking each series as much as possible. Maybe though Blizzard has already been doing that though with WoW so I am just hoping for a change in the industry's policy.
Everyone can't be Valve and I guess I am hooked on the product.
On May 07 2011 10:05 Teliko wrote: Ok, after experimenting with a model edit change observer to mothership, I've got some results people are looking for. Before I start, I want to make it clear that under no circumstances do I support the use of model editing for an exploitable benefit, I'm simply answering peoples questions. I also don't want other people to get the wrong idea, this is in no way related to my nova file which does not provide any benefit. This is just regarding the shitstorm argument that developed due to the concept of model editing and potential of exploitability.
1. Just because you swap the model of a cloaked unit to something that isn't cloak, does NOT remove the cloak effect.
2. Swapping a small cloaked unit like observer to a mothership DOES increase the size of the cloaked looking effect radius as displayed below on the CC and ebay.
3. By swapping a smaller model to a bigger model or vice versa does NOT change the units actual model size. By this I mean you can't increase the size of a zealot to solo block of an entire ramp as displayed by my mothership flower. These are not on any form of patrol.
4. By increasing the size of a model, you DO increase the radius at which you can click on the unit to target it.
Thanks for the info man. I never did this research on my own, though I have played with swapping out some models. For example Ive been using this little dude I made from time to time I just miss the bw probe lol.
I hope blizzard lets us keep doing this, but somehow limits us to not allowing us to do something like the mothership observer swap. Its a shame that people would use this to cheat instead of being creative and bringing something cool to the table.
On May 11 2011 06:15 porytom wrote: While this thread is rather interesting, I can't help but notice the glaring typo in the OP. I am of course referring to "turns our campaign portraits". This should, of course, be "turns out". I am quite eager to read your blog but to be frank, I'm not sure that I could stomach any more of these linguistic lethargies. If Teliko were to be kind enough to take the time to amend his original post, I would be more than happy to try this edit for myself.
What I don't think anyone has even mentioned yet is whether Blizzard should be banning people for altering their game. Everyone has been saying that they would switch the models and then ladder would be easy but there is ways that Blizzard can check the game files. I feel like they could just restrict people from laddering if the files are out of place or altered while still letting them play custom games.
I mean I know Blizzard wants to make the ladder fair but there has to be a balance between fairness and maintaining customization. Some may argue that the world editor is enough room for changing aspects of the game but I think there is at least an argument to be made for custom HUDs or menu systems. People keep parroting the same ridiculous arguments over and over again about how customization will lead to cheating which is nothing but speculation.
I have always experienced customization as a good thing because there were always utilities developed to protect against cheaters while allowing players to create their own original content. I would like too see Blizzard working towards the goal of making things more open for users rather than being a monolith who is so concerned about creative control that they can't just be psyched that people bought and are playing their game.
I am not naive to think that they don't have a stake in the continued success of SC2 so that is why they want control but I don't think the input of fans would be a detriment. It is just disappointing from my end to see that Blizzard might end up with the classic Activision philosophy of milking each series as much as possible. Maybe though Blizzard has already been doing that though with WoW so I am just hoping for a change in the industry's policy.
Everyone can't be Valve and I guess I am hooked on the product.
It's not as easy as one might think for Blizz to be able to detect model/texture modifications. It's kind of like asking a computer to answer a captcha. While a person can easily (sometimes) make out the captcha, computers will have great difficulty. Model edits don't change any file names, only the files inside them. While a Blizz employee could obviously see the difference, they can't go around individually inspecting each file of everyones' game client. Especially considering all edits will be client-side, the server won't know anything about it.
The one thing they could do is judge it by the filesize. Say a default Observer model file is 200kb, I replace it with a mothership and now the file is suddenly 1mb. While the game will be able to detect this, even then it can't go around banning people just because of different filesizes with the assumption that they're exploiting the game.
On May 11 2011 06:15 porytom wrote: While this thread is rather interesting, I can't help but notice the glaring typo in the OP. I am of course referring to "turns our campaign portraits". This should, of course, be "turns out". I am quite eager to read your blog but to be frank, I'm not sure that I could stomach any more of these linguistic lethargies. If Teliko were to be kind enough to take the time to amend his original post, I would be more than happy to try this edit for myself.
What I don't think anyone has even mentioned yet is whether Blizzard should be banning people for altering their game. Everyone has been saying that they would switch the models and then ladder would be easy but there is ways that Blizzard can check the game files. I feel like they could just restrict people from laddering if the files are out of place or altered while still letting them play custom games.
I mean I know Blizzard wants to make the ladder fair but there has to be a balance between fairness and maintaining customization. Some may argue that the world editor is enough room for changing aspects of the game but I think there is at least an argument to be made for custom HUDs or menu systems. People keep parroting the same ridiculous arguments over and over again about how customization will lead to cheating which is nothing but speculation.
I have always experienced customization as a good thing because there were always utilities developed to protect against cheaters while allowing players to create their own original content. I would like too see Blizzard working towards the goal of making things more open for users rather than being a monolith who is so concerned about creative control that they can't just be psyched that people bought and are playing their game.
I am not naive to think that they don't have a stake in the continued success of SC2 so that is why they want control but I don't think the input of fans would be a detriment. It is just disappointing from my end to see that Blizzard might end up with the classic Activision philosophy of milking each series as much as possible. Maybe though Blizzard has already been doing that though with WoW so I am just hoping for a change in the industry's policy.
Everyone can't be Valve and I guess I am hooked on the product.
It's not as easy as one might think for Blizz to be able to detect model/texture modifications. It's kind of like asking a computer to answer a captcha. While a person can easily (sometimes) make out the captcha, computers will have great difficulty. Model edits don't change any file names, only the files inside them. While a Blizz employee could obviously see the difference, they can't go around individually inspecting each file of everyones' game client. Especially considering all edits will be client-side, the server won't know anything about it.
The one thing they could do is judge it by the filesize. Say a default Observer model file is 200kb, I replace it with a mothership and now the file is suddenly 1mb. While the game will be able to detect this, even then it can't go around banning people just because of different filesizes with the assumption that they're exploiting the game.
Detecting file sizes or you know, keep binary hashes of all the files and just do a quick check would be a pretty simple way to detecting and then auto log for mass ban time..
On May 11 2011 06:15 porytom wrote: While this thread is rather interesting, I can't help but notice the glaring typo in the OP. I am of course referring to "turns our campaign portraits". This should, of course, be "turns out". I am quite eager to read your blog but to be frank, I'm not sure that I could stomach any more of these linguistic lethargies. If Teliko were to be kind enough to take the time to amend his original post, I would be more than happy to try this edit for myself.
What I don't think anyone has even mentioned yet is whether Blizzard should be banning people for altering their game. Everyone has been saying that they would switch the models and then ladder would be easy but there is ways that Blizzard can check the game files. I feel like they could just restrict people from laddering if the files are out of place or altered while still letting them play custom games.
I mean I know Blizzard wants to make the ladder fair but there has to be a balance between fairness and maintaining customization. Some may argue that the world editor is enough room for changing aspects of the game but I think there is at least an argument to be made for custom HUDs or menu systems. People keep parroting the same ridiculous arguments over and over again about how customization will lead to cheating which is nothing but speculation.
I have always experienced customization as a good thing because there were always utilities developed to protect against cheaters while allowing players to create their own original content. I would like too see Blizzard working towards the goal of making things more open for users rather than being a monolith who is so concerned about creative control that they can't just be psyched that people bought and are playing their game.
I am not naive to think that they don't have a stake in the continued success of SC2 so that is why they want control but I don't think the input of fans would be a detriment. It is just disappointing from my end to see that Blizzard might end up with the classic Activision philosophy of milking each series as much as possible. Maybe though Blizzard has already been doing that though with WoW so I am just hoping for a change in the industry's policy.
Everyone can't be Valve and I guess I am hooked on the product.
It's not as easy as one might think for Blizz to be able to detect model/texture modifications. It's kind of like asking a computer to answer a captcha. While a person can easily (sometimes) make out the captcha, computers will have great difficulty. Model edits don't change any file names, only the files inside them. While a Blizz employee could obviously see the difference, they can't go around individually inspecting each file of everyones' game client. Especially considering all edits will be client-side, the server won't know anything about it.
The one thing they could do is judge it by the filesize. Say a default Observer model file is 200kb, I replace it with a mothership and now the file is suddenly 1mb. While the game will be able to detect this, even then it can't go around banning people just because of different filesizes with the assumption that they're exploiting the game.
Detecting file sizes or you know, keep binary hashes of all the files and just do a quick check would be a pretty simple way to detecting and then auto log for mass ban time..
Depending on the rate people are logging into bnet, this might create a lot of overhead even though the actual calculation can be made to be relatively low cost.
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
I never really understood this argument. The ghost is already white and stands out. Their color isn't the problem. Its the fact that they are small and units clump up in sc2. So you have a ball of small units with one small unit inside that needs to be clicked on. Not only that, but almost everyone plays with the life bars on so now bars are covering everything up. Not just that, but then there are medivacs that cover everything up too.
But even with all that, its really not that hard. You will ALWAYS rely on the energy bars to identify the ghost before you look at the model. If you feel the need to make the ghost bright pink, thats fine, but it wont help you or give you any type of advantage because a purple energy bar amongst green bars and a white ghost are already enough. Templars have the bars too so the same argument there.
So far the only advantages i'm thinking of are the mothership to observer type swap, and probably putting in a custom model with spikes pointing in all directions. Lets say for the nexus. Then when the game starts you follow the spike to your enemies starting location. Stuff like that.
EDIT: I hope people stop focusing so much about it being exploitable and start contributing with cool Non-Cheat modifications to make the game better.
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
So far the only advantages i'm thinking of are the mothership to observer type swap, and probably putting in a custom model with spikes pointing in all directions. Lets say for the nexus. Then when the game starts you follow the spike to your enemies starting location. Stuff like that.
I don't think the spike works since you still need vision of the nexus to be able to view the model.
Still abusable by changing the DT/ghost model into an ultralisk, but it won't really help much except against noticing cloaked stuff.
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
So far the only advantages i'm thinking of are the mothership to observer type swap, and probably putting in a custom model with spikes pointing in all directions. Lets say for the nexus. Then when the game starts you follow the spike to your enemies starting location. Stuff like that.
I don't think the spike works since you still need vision of the nexus to be able to view the model.
Still abusable by changing the DT/ghost model into an ultralisk, but it won't really help much except against noticing cloaked stuff.
Oh, you're probably right about that. Good, then that's ruled out.
Yeah, fortunately the number of advantages possible doesn't seem as big. Can't wait to see more stuff come out from the community now.
On May 11 2011 07:22 pzea469 wrote: Thanks for the info man. I never did this research on my own, though I have played with swapping out some models. For example Ive been using this little dude I made from time to time I just miss the bw probe lol.
I hope blizzard lets us keep doing this, but somehow limits us to not allowing us to do something like the mothership observer swap. Its a shame that people would use this to cheat instead of being creative and bringing something cool to the table.
On May 07 2011 06:38 holynorth wrote: So now people are going to going to edit the colors of key units. Ghosts will be a neon green, high templars a bright pink, so they stand out and are easily hit with feedback/emp.
So far the only advantages i'm thinking of are the mothership to observer type swap, and probably putting in a custom model with spikes pointing in all directions. Lets say for the nexus. Then when the game starts you follow the spike to your enemies starting location. Stuff like that.
I don't think the spike works since you still need vision of the nexus to be able to view the model.
Still abusable by changing the DT/ghost model into an ultralisk, but it won't really help much except against noticing cloaked stuff.
This is right. You need to have vision of the buildings hex placements to reveal it from the fog of war. Pretty much the cloak and larger target selecting are the only potential exploits, which while still annoying, isn't much compared to maphackers or PiLLaGe who's #1 US and #6 Grandmasters in the world purely from using a drophack.
Sorry for the bump on this old thread, but I've been trying to do this on the lastest patch.
Is anyone from the NA region able to get this model swap to work? I've heard that the folder prioritizing method doesn't work on the NA clients and only on the EU clients...
On July 25 2011 23:05 Velladin wrote: Sorry for the bump on this old thread, but I've been trying to do this on the lastest patch.
Is anyone from the NA region able to get this model swap to work? I've heard that the folder prioritizing method doesn't work on the NA clients and only on the EU clients...
You need to use it in your proper locality (in this case the US file I'm assuming), it works for me
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/CCFQuelex/CC%20Mods/SCVersus002.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DdE05.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HtZ6r.jpg)
(the one about how certain edits actually have a meaningful effect on the game)![[image loading]](http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/686/ghost02.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xggJZ.jpg)
