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On October 24 2012 16:45 Tantaburs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:32 Matoo- wrote:
Weird that so many people are OK with SC2 being one of the smaller esports out there. I'm not an extremely competitive person myself and I could agree with this point of view regarding many other topics.
But video games are different. Video games have a short lifespan. It's not like NBA compared to NFL, where even if one is 10 times smaller than the other it's still gonna be there in decades with the same loyal viewership.
SC2 being small doesn't just mean having 10k viewers instead of 100k viewers.
SC2 being small means that in 5 years there might be little to no high-level SC2 content left to watch, instead of going strong for 10 or 15 years.
Esports are all about making an epic run.
I don't follow or care for SC2 much so I'll leave it to everyone to figure out how SC2's run is gonna be. You mean like how in broodwar there was little to no high level content to watch. Outside of korea Brood war tournaments didn't exist. I don;t have the number so i can't with any degree of certainty but i would assume that there have been more non korean SC2 viewers in the last 6 months then the entirety of Non korean Broodwar viewers
As long as there is high-level content to watch I don't care much where it comes from.
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Holy shit... idra posted on TL post-SC2 release... and didnt get banned yet....
Clearly this is a sign of the end times for SC2....
heres to hoping that everything returns to pre-SC2 release! CHEERS.
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On October 24 2012 16:47 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:
When Destiny started talking about BW, I would have loved to have seen the ITG guys remind the whole community that BW's success was only partially due to Blizzard. The game wasn't even balanced if you used the maps they provided. People outside of Blizzard were who made BW a great esport. Too many people, perhaps Destiny included, think that BW was this holy grail of balance all on its own and that it was destined to be successful because Blizzard was touched by god in the late 90's. It wasn't. It became balanced and became a successful esport because people outside of Blizzard took the game and made it their own. Nobody needed #saveBW to make it sucessful, they did the legwork to make proper maps, start teams, make tournaments, and form the organizations that made it what it was.
Koreans get things done. Foreigners complain.
It's a secret... Don't tell anyone.
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I like when Idra posts, makes me feel warm and fuzzy. =D
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On October 24 2012 16:43 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:41 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:36 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 24 2012 16:35 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:31 Integra wrote:On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? you like being popular off your bad reputation? If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not?  being popular because of bed rep is nothing to be proud of, especially when you try to pretend like you're this superman of the SC2 community. except he isn't popular because of his bad rep. nowadays he is getting more attention for the drama he causes than anything else. and its only getting worse. all of his posts in this thread just makes him look bad. you can try and say it doesnt, but the obvious is the obvious. any professional/intelligent person would ignore this thread entirely. incontrol is very capable of this since he IS a intelligent person, but he continues to post rants, insults, and unfunny "jokes" in a TL thread because why? destiny has more sense to avoid this thread, but incontrol, and now even idra feel the need to argue with people here? Don't act like Destiny is above this shit, he avoids this thread because he prefers to hang out on reddit. He has been plenty active there where everything he says is upvoted by his legion of fanboys and any dissenting opinions are downvoted to oblivion.
the only thing destiny did in regards to this entire fiasco is apologize for his actions and explained himself that he let his emotions get the better of him on his own stream. he does not continue to insult incontrols fans on random threads just because they are giving there opinion on what happened.
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On October 24 2012 16:47 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:
When Destiny started talking about BW, I would have loved to have seen the ITG guys remind the whole community that BW's success was only partially due to Blizzard. The game wasn't even balanced if you used the maps they provided. People outside of Blizzard were who made BW a great esport. Too many people, perhaps Destiny included, think that BW was this holy grail of balance all on its own and that it was destined to be successful because Blizzard was touched by god in the late 90's. It wasn't. It became balanced and became a successful esport because people outside of Blizzard took the game and made it their own. Nobody needed #saveBW to make it sucessful, they did the legwork to make proper maps, start teams, make tournaments, and form the organizations that made it what it was.
That's not the point at all. Destiny even says on the show that the average person doesn't care about how balanced PVZ is at the highest levels or whatever; they just want to play UMS maps with their friends and stuff. That's what most people in Brood War were doing: UMS maps, BGH or fastest. That's the point he's trying to make.
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On October 24 2012 16:52 lazyitachi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:47 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:
When Destiny started talking about BW, I would have loved to have seen the ITG guys remind the whole community that BW's success was only partially due to Blizzard. The game wasn't even balanced if you used the maps they provided. People outside of Blizzard were who made BW a great esport. Too many people, perhaps Destiny included, think that BW was this holy grail of balance all on its own and that it was destined to be successful because Blizzard was touched by god in the late 90's. It wasn't. It became balanced and became a successful esport because people outside of Blizzard took the game and made it their own. Nobody needed #saveBW to make it sucessful, they did the legwork to make proper maps, start teams, make tournaments, and form the organizations that made it what it was. Koreans get things done. Foreigners complain. It's a secret... Don't tell anyone.
For some reason I think Korea saving a Blizzard Starcraft title is going to be a one off thing. Doubt very seriously it happens this time around.
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On October 24 2012 16:47 JPSke wrote:
This is a valid point but I think it fails to really get what the problem is. It isn't that LoL and DOTA have surpassed SC2 in viewers, it is that they are proactively seeking ways to improve their product and they have established a F2P model that all future E-sports titles will follow. So unless SC2 starts evolving and getting a little more serious about where they plan on taking SC2 it's going to be very hard for it to remain relevant. Look at what happened to Everquest in a post-WoW marketplace. The things that were previously accepted as industry standards suddenly become monotonous BS people would no longer put up with. That same effect is happening here. When all your friends go to the new shiny game which offers you a superior entertainment experience, eventually so will you. And every thread on Reddit and post here tells the same story, people's friends stop playing, and eventually they do too. Most people aren't going to put up with Bnet 2.0 and Blizzard's current lack of responsiveness when there are tons of competitors who have learned from Riot and DOTA and who are going to offer a superior entertainment experience. It just isn't going to happen. So yes, SC2 is okay for now, but what about in the future? When HOTS doesn't sell well do they cut SC2 development even further? We'll have to wait and see.
wat
RTS competitors? destiny-esque competitors in that e-sports becomes a singularity with one title only?
are you seriously positing that not only will future RTS titles be FTP with the microtransactional model ala LoL, but that this is something we should legitimately worry about in the lifetime of SC2? I don't feel this is borne out in fact or evidence that this is a thing that is happening.
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Why's everybody so pissed about the small little verbal joust that took place? Heated discussions aren't always a bad thing... I found the whole thing pretty interesting honestly. Destiny's childish exit was a bit douchey but no big deal really.
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Sometimes I wish Starcraft never has to deal with all this drama -_-
But it's what everyone else wants right? How long has it been since this community started doing all of its dramafests week after week?
We're all united by a game we enjoy, yet we get so riled up about an argument on a talkshow...
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On October 24 2012 16:55 TheExile19 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:47 JPSke wrote:
This is a valid point but I think it fails to really get what the problem is. It isn't that LoL and DOTA have surpassed SC2 in viewers, it is that they are proactively seeking ways to improve their product and they have established a F2P model that all future E-sports titles will follow. So unless SC2 starts evolving and getting a little more serious about where they plan on taking SC2 it's going to be very hard for it to remain relevant. Look at what happened to Everquest in a post-WoW marketplace. The things that were previously accepted as industry standards suddenly become monotonous BS people would no longer put up with. That same effect is happening here. When all your friends go to the new shiny game which offers you a superior entertainment experience, eventually so will you. And every thread on Reddit and post here tells the same story, people's friends stop playing, and eventually they do too. Most people aren't going to put up with Bnet 2.0 and Blizzard's current lack of responsiveness when there are tons of competitors who have learned from Riot and DOTA and who are going to offer a superior entertainment experience. It just isn't going to happen. So yes, SC2 is okay for now, but what about in the future? When HOTS doesn't sell well do they cut SC2 development even further? We'll have to wait and see. wat RTS competitors? are you seriously positing that not only will future RTS titles be FTP with the microtransactional model ala LoL, but that this is something we should legitimately worry about in the lifetime of SC2? I don't feel this is borne out in fact.
Notice you said RTS, I didn't. There's a ton of crossover and the number of new E-sports focused titles is increasing rapidly.
But yes, now that you mention it, almost all new competitive games, including RTS, are working off a FTP model. Just like the MMO market the competitive gaming market has shifted decidedly in that direction.
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I'm sorry but... what the fuck DJWheat? Ever watched a show on TV? Do you ever see the anchor get excited like that?
You;re suppoed to encourage discussion between the 2 parts, not yell at one of the part that he's a pussy for leaving the call!
So disappointed...
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On October 24 2012 16:54 JPSke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:52 lazyitachi wrote:On October 24 2012 16:47 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:
When Destiny started talking about BW, I would have loved to have seen the ITG guys remind the whole community that BW's success was only partially due to Blizzard. The game wasn't even balanced if you used the maps they provided. People outside of Blizzard were who made BW a great esport. Too many people, perhaps Destiny included, think that BW was this holy grail of balance all on its own and that it was destined to be successful because Blizzard was touched by god in the late 90's. It wasn't. It became balanced and became a successful esport because people outside of Blizzard took the game and made it their own. Nobody needed #saveBW to make it sucessful, they did the legwork to make proper maps, start teams, make tournaments, and form the organizations that made it what it was. Koreans get things done. Foreigners complain. It's a secret... Don't tell anyone. For some reason I think Korea saving a Blizzard Starcraft title is going to be a one off thing. Doubt very seriously it happens this time around.
Koreans saving blizzard is of course going to be hard as hell, with blizzard implementing so much controlling policing-state-like shit like no lans or controling leagues or having the same shitty unbalanced maps all the time.
Korea saving blizzard cannot happen because first blizzard must save herself from falling.
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On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right?
So you're trying to maintain your reputation as a worthless joker with nothing but crude jokes, but get mad when you get outed 
Pretty funny
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On October 24 2012 16:58 JPSke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:55 TheExile19 wrote:On October 24 2012 16:47 JPSke wrote:
This is a valid point but I think it fails to really get what the problem is. It isn't that LoL and DOTA have surpassed SC2 in viewers, it is that they are proactively seeking ways to improve their product and they have established a F2P model that all future E-sports titles will follow. So unless SC2 starts evolving and getting a little more serious about where they plan on taking SC2 it's going to be very hard for it to remain relevant. Look at what happened to Everquest in a post-WoW marketplace. The things that were previously accepted as industry standards suddenly become monotonous BS people would no longer put up with. That same effect is happening here. When all your friends go to the new shiny game which offers you a superior entertainment experience, eventually so will you. And every thread on Reddit and post here tells the same story, people's friends stop playing, and eventually they do too. Most people aren't going to put up with Bnet 2.0 and Blizzard's current lack of responsiveness when there are tons of competitors who have learned from Riot and DOTA and who are going to offer a superior entertainment experience. It just isn't going to happen. So yes, SC2 is okay for now, but what about in the future? When HOTS doesn't sell well do they cut SC2 development even further? We'll have to wait and see. wat RTS competitors? are you seriously positing that not only will future RTS titles be FTP with the microtransactional model ala LoL, but that this is something we should legitimately worry about in the lifetime of SC2? I don't feel this is borne out in fact. Notice you said RTS, I didn't. There's a ton of crossover and the number of new E-sports focused titles is increasing rapidly. But yes, now that you mention it, almost all new competitive games, including RTS, are working off a FTP model. Just like the MMO market the competitive gaming market has shifted decidedly in that direction.
I am quite aware of this, frankly I was just wondering if you had specific names/companies in mind that I had somehow escaped learning about.
I'd agree that SC2 is staring down the wrong side of a progressive scene, but the idea of an FTPRTS (spiffy) with the polish and balance to usurp the throne seems quite a ways away to me. in the meantime, blizzard just needs to perform triage with HOTS and maybe step up their involvement in the months after its release, and we should be looking at a relatively stable SC2 scene for the next couple years.
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On October 24 2012 16:59 OceanLab wrote:
I'm sorry but... what the fuck DJWheat? Ever watched a show on TV? Do you ever see the anchor get excited like that?
You;re suppoed to encourage discussion between the 2 parts, not yell at one of the part that he's a pussy for leaving the call!
So disappointed...
It's like none of you people have watched wheat before...
Chill the fuck out, apparently Wheat is killing ESPORTS again? I think it's time we bring that phrase back, really fucking relevant right now.
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awesome episode guys cant wait for next week :DDD
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Felt like an eg-wheat tunnel-vision jerkfest with a lot of needless yelling. Go painuser, voice of reason.
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I didn't quite follow why the argument got so heated in the first place.
Destiny thinks Blizzard could step up their game. So did everyone inControl and Idra and wheat. But they don't agree that whining about it in public makes a difference? Their contention is that since Blizzard hasn't listened, it's more productive to assume they never will, and put all your efforts into other things that don't require Blizzard? Accurate?
On SOTG, QXC essentially made the same point as Destiny but just didn't get drawn into a shouting match. I don't think either position is out there.
The whole thing on twitter and reddit is a response to being ignored. If the other ways were working ... then people wouldn't have felt the need to do that. We need to get their attention and this is the only way we know how. Maybe this isn't the best way but Blizzard has noticed.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/11zevx/qxc_on_sotg_summarizing_the_issues_around/
(Linked to reddit rather than youtube because the TL forum seems to strip out the direct link to a time in the video.)
Destiny thinks getting pissed and posting opinions might get through to them, others think that is a waste of time.
So everyone on that panel desperately wants Starcraft and Blizzard to be awesome and do awesome things. They just disagree on the what will work best at achieving that! Why did the debate turn mean so fast when everyone was coming from the space place, hoping for the same things!
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EPT
