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On October 24 2012 16:32 Matoo- wrote:
Weird that so many people are OK with SC2 being one of the smaller esports out there. I'm not an extremely competitive person myself and I could agree with this point of view regarding many other topics.
But video games are different. Video games have a short lifespan. It's not like NBA compared to NFL, where even if one is 10 times smaller than the other it's still gonna be there in decades with the same loyal viewership.
SC2 being small doesn't just mean having 10k viewers instead of 100k viewers.
SC2 being small means that in 5 years there might have little to no high-level SC2 content left to watch, instead of going strong for 10 or 15 years.
Esports are all about making an epic run.
I don't care or follow SC2 much so I'll leave it to everyone to figure out how SC2's run is gonna be.
it's not being okay with it so much as coming to the understanding that LoL is basically the perfect casual e-sports machine. I don't want blizzard to throw up their hands and make no attempts whatsoever to market SC2 to new audiences, even though the game itself is forbidding by its nature, but at the same time hearing painuser suggest palette swaps for marines and adorable accessories to collect! makes me sick to my stomach. I'd rather see this game stay small and focused than branch out and beg from the casual crowd, die in 5-6 years with honor than in 7-10 as a shambling undead wraith that in no way resembles the game I've been watching in the first place. fortunately it's not quite that dire and there are plenty of changes blizzard already has on the docket, but people correctly ascertain that they aren't attractive to people that aren't already invested in the game and I flat-out don't know what I could suggest to blizzard that they haven't considered already.
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On October 24 2012 16:25 Kashmir_33 wrote:
Destiny obviously cares about the game and is quite passionate in how blizzard isn't taking the right steps for people who want to play the game on a more casual bases. No way you can possibly deny that unless you are a complete idiot. If you think they are, then when the hell is it ever going to be shown in actual concrete results...There is no excuse for a MAJOR company like that with income from SOOOOOOO many sources and have a huge group of qualified teams dedicated to these issues could possibly put off things that can be implemented so simply in comparison to the major projects they are working on and have already finished. Destiny was right and no one else was providing ANY solid theories or answers to the situation other than "They don't care what we think, leave it at that." You have to be a babbling moron to believe that if enough people actually give feedback that they wouldn't actually attempt to make a change. Having a few "pro" players in the scene doesn't make them automatically change everything just because they say it isn't right. Even though these high skilled players have huge fanbases and are linked to sponsors doesn't automatically give them a sanction to say whatever they want and blizzard will instantly fall under their "commands."
Do you know how much blizzard makes every year? Because I do. I checked the most recent numbers yesterday for a marketting assignment.
After Tax and divendeds blizzard income for the first 6 months of this year was 145 million. This isn't counting MoP lauch so the second half of the year most vertainly have higher numbers so call it 350million this year. That is nothing in the corporate world and they have to answer to shareholders before they answer to gamers. Any addition they make has to be profitable.
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YELLING CONTESTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!
I cant believe I wasted my time watching this show...
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On October 24 2012 16:35 KlinKz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:31 Integra wrote:On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? you like being popular off your bad reputation? If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not?  Maybe because Idra and Incontrol not only represent themselves but represents team EG as a whole? esp. Incontrol who is captain and Idra who DESTINY even stated as THE best foreign player of SCBW, Idra is should be on the Hall of Fame but what I must ask is Idra are you really fcking happy as to were sc2 is? u get thousands of viewers that i understand but thats what a typical average LoL player gets daily. like blizzard listens to you guys so please say something for us the community
I hardly believe that blizzard "listens" to what idra says specifically. They take player feedback but do you really think they invite them to input on corporate decisions on if / when they implement a certain idea / feature?
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On October 24 2012 16:36 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:35 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:31 Integra wrote:On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? you like being popular off your bad reputation? If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not? being popular because of bed rep is nothing to be proud of, especially when you try to pretend like you're this superman of the SC2 community. except he isn't popular because of his bad rep.
nowadays he is getting more attention for the drama he causes than anything else. and its only getting worse. all of his posts in this thread just makes him look bad. you can try and say it doesnt, but the obvious is the obvious. any professional/intelligent person would ignore this thread entirely. incontrol is very capable of this since he IS a intelligent person, but he continues to post rants, insults, and unfunny "jokes" in a TL thread because why?
destiny has more sense to avoid this thread, but incontrol, and now even idra feel the need to argue and insult people here? i mean sure the arguments is fine, but insulting people on top of that? what do u have to gain other than negative feedback?
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On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? you like being popular off your bad reputation?
I smell envy.
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On October 24 2012 16:41 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:36 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 24 2012 16:35 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:31 Integra wrote:On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? you like being popular off your bad reputation? If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not? being popular because of bed rep is nothing to be proud of, especially when you try to pretend like you're this superman of the SC2 community. except he isn't popular because of his bad rep. nowadays he is getting more attention for the drama he causes than anything else. and its only getting worse. all of his posts in this thread just makes him look bad. you can try and say it doesnt, but the obvious is the obvious. any professional/intelligent person would ignore this thread entirely. incontrol is very capable of this since he IS a intelligent person, but he continues to post rants, insults, and unfunny "jokes" in a TL thread because why?
Your perception does not equal reality.
If he had a bad rep he would never be asked to do things like host dreamhacks and represent anything besides himself. Saying incontrol is "popular because of his bad rep" is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum.
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On October 24 2012 16:41 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:36 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 24 2012 16:35 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:31 Integra wrote:On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? you like being popular off your bad reputation? If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not? being popular because of bed rep is nothing to be proud of, especially when you try to pretend like you're this superman of the SC2 community. except he isn't popular because of his bad rep. nowadays he is getting more attention for the drama he causes than anything else. and its only getting worse. all of his posts in this thread just makes him look bad. you can try and say it doesnt, but the obvious is the obvious. any professional/intelligent person would ignore this thread entirely. incontrol is very capable of this since he IS a intelligent person, but he continues to post rants, insults, and unfunny "jokes" in a TL thread because why? destiny has more sense to avoid this thread, but incontrol, and now even idra feel the need to argue with people here?
Don't act like Destiny is above this shit, he avoids this thread because he prefers to hang out on reddit. He has been plenty active there where everything he says is upvoted by his legion of fanboys and any dissenting opinions are downvoted to oblivion.
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I love how these so called "top tier pro gamers" pretend like they are experts of the field of how casual lower league players who aren't deeply involved in the competitive scene are. Such a joke, absolutely hilarious. At least destiny was trying to speak about sympathize with how they view the game and how it relates to their playing experience.
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Need Moar drama.
om nom nom nom nom nom
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On October 24 2012 16:32 Matoo- wrote:
Weird that so many people are OK with SC2 being one of the smaller esports out there. I'm not an extremely competitive person myself and I could agree with this point of view regarding many other topics.
But video games are different. Video games have a short lifespan. It's not like NBA compared to NFL, where even if one is 10 times smaller than the other it's still gonna be there in decades with the same loyal viewership.
SC2 being small doesn't just mean having 10k viewers instead of 100k viewers.
SC2 being small means that in 5 years there might be little to no high-level SC2 content left to watch, instead of going strong for 10 or 15 years.
Esports are all about making an epic run.
I don't follow or care for SC2 much so I'll leave it to everyone to figure out how SC2's run is gonna be.
You mean like how in broodwar there was little to no high level content to watch. Outside of korea Brood war tournaments didn't exist. I don;t have the number so i can't with any degree of certainty but i would assume that there have been more non korean SC2 viewers in the last 6 months then the entirety of Non korean Broodwar viewers
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Thankfully the internet has the attention span of a 2 year old and this will all be forgotten tomorrow.
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On October 24 2012 16:43 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:41 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:36 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 24 2012 16:35 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:31 Integra wrote:On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? you like being popular off your bad reputation? If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not? being popular because of bed rep is nothing to be proud of, especially when you try to pretend like you're this superman of the SC2 community. except he isn't popular because of his bad rep. nowadays he is getting more attention for the drama he causes than anything else. and its only getting worse. all of his posts in this thread just makes him look bad. you can try and say it doesnt, but the obvious is the obvious. any professional/intelligent person would ignore this thread entirely. incontrol is very capable of this since he IS a intelligent person, but he continues to post rants, insults, and unfunny "jokes" in a TL thread because why? Your perception does not equal reality. If he had a bad rep he would never be asked to do things like host dreamhacks and represent anything besides himself. Saying incontrol is "popular because of his bad rep" is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum.
Quoted the wrong post
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When Destiny started talking about BW, I would have loved to have seen the ITG guys remind the whole community that BW's success was only partially due to Blizzard. The game wasn't even balanced if you used the maps they provided. People outside of Blizzard were who made BW a great esport. Too many people, perhaps Destiny included, think that BW was this holy grail of balance all on its own and that it was destined to be successful because Blizzard was touched by god in the late 90's. It wasn't. It became balanced and became a successful esport because people outside of Blizzard took the game and made it their own. Nobody needed #saveBW to make it sucessful, they did the legwork to make proper maps, start teams, make tournaments, and form the organizations that made it what it was.
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On October 24 2012 16:38 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:32 Matoo- wrote:
Weird that so many people are OK with SC2 being one of the smaller esports out there. I'm not an extremely competitive person myself and I could agree with this point of view regarding many other topics.
But video games are different. Video games have a short lifespan. It's not like NBA compared to NFL, where even if one is 10 times smaller than the other it's still gonna be there in decades with the same loyal viewership.
SC2 being small doesn't just mean having 10k viewers instead of 100k viewers.
SC2 being small means that in 5 years there might be little to no high-level SC2 content left to watch, instead of going strong for 10 or 15 years.
Esports are all about making an epic run.
I don't care or follow SC2 much so I'll leave it to everyone to figure out how SC2's run is gonna be. One of the smaller out there? What are you smoking? Right now only LoL surpasses us, maybe DotA 2 will end up doing so as well. So two mobas, and aside from that? Nothing comes close. All this doomsaying is as a result of LoL overtaking us, as if not being number one means we are fucked. And that didn't even happen because SC2 had some disastrous fall, LoL just grew to heights that SC2 never reached. If LoL hadn't entered the picture we would all be perfectly happy with the size of the scene we have right now, the sheer amount of content that's out there. Suddenly because we are only second best, it's the end and SC2 is fucked? It's bullshit, and it's all that Destiny's ranting boiled down to, hammering on and on about how many viewers LoL gets as if eSports is a fucking Highlander film and there can only be one.
This is a valid point but I think it fails to really get what the problem is. It isn't that LoL and DOTA have surpassed SC2 in viewers, it is that they are proactively seeking ways to improve their product and they have established a F2P model that all future E-sports titles will follow. So unless SC2 starts evolving and getting a little more serious about where they plan on taking SC2 it's going to be very hard for it to remain relevant. Look at what happened to Everquest in a post-WoW marketplace. The things that were previously accepted as industry standards suddenly become monotonous BS people would no longer put up with. That same effect is happening here. When all your friends go to the new shiny game which offers you a superior entertainment experience, eventually so will you. And every thread on Reddit and post here tells the same story, people's friends stop playing, and eventually they do too. Most people aren't going to put up with Bnet 2.0 and Blizzard's current lack of responsiveness when there are tons of competitors who have learned from Riot and DOTA and who are going to offer a superior entertainment experience. It just isn't going to happen. So yes, SC2 is okay for now, but what about in the future? When HOTS doesn't sell well do they cut SC2 development even further? We'll have to wait and see.
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On October 24 2012 16:43 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:41 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:36 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 24 2012 16:35 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:31 Integra wrote:On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? you like being popular off your bad reputation? If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not? being popular because of bed rep is nothing to be proud of, especially when you try to pretend like you're this superman of the SC2 community. except he isn't popular because of his bad rep. nowadays he is getting more attention for the drama he causes than anything else. and its only getting worse. all of his posts in this thread just makes him look bad. you can try and say it doesnt, but the obvious is the obvious. any professional/intelligent person would ignore this thread entirely. incontrol is very capable of this since he IS a intelligent person, but he continues to post rants, insults, and unfunny "jokes" in a TL thread because why? Your perception does not equal reality. If he had a bad rep he would never be asked to do things like host dreamhacks and represent anything besides himself. Saying incontrol is "popular because of his bad rep" is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum.
idra has a bed rep and he is an example of someone getting popular off of it despite him mellowing out a bit lately. he gets invited to tournaments and is apart of a team.
destiny also has a bad rep and says extremely rude things on stream like faggot all the time. he was also apart of teams and gets invited to tournaments. even went to korea for a bit and is now at MoW.
and do i even need to mention stephano?
so with that said i dont see your point. infact your point is invalid and very stupid because of all these examples that i mentioned.
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My bad for writing about SC2 being "one of the smaller esports out there". I was actually thinking about a possible future situation if things go bad. Should have worded that differently to avoid sounding sensationalist, sorry.
My point is that being as big as you fucking can is really really important for an esport imo. BW could have been a much more amateurish esport in Korea and still be a relatively successful esport of its time. But the fact that it took Korea by storm and achieved overwhelming domination there enabled it to have the most epic run of all time and gave us a crazy high-level scene to follow even 10 years down the road.
Basically to me esports seem like one of those fields where achieving massive domination over your competition is actually really important. Not so much in the "winner takes all" sense usual to, say, social networking services, but rather in a "winner thrives longest" sense.
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On October 24 2012 16:40 Nubbinz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:35 KlinKz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:31 Integra wrote:On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? you like being popular off your bad reputation? If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not? Maybe because Idra and Incontrol not only represent themselves but represents team EG as a whole? esp. Incontrol who is captain and Idra who DESTINY even stated as THE best foreign player of SCBW, Idra is should be on the Hall of Fame but what I must ask is Idra are you really fcking happy as to were sc2 is? u get thousands of viewers that i understand but thats what a typical average LoL player gets daily. like blizzard listens to you guys so please say something for us the community I hardly believe that blizzard "listens" to what idra says specifically. They take player feedback but do you really think they invite them to input on corporate decisions on if / when they implement a certain idea / feature?
I believe it, if zergs can rant on about zerg being underpowered and getting buffs. OR if enough pro players complain to blizzard, Blizzard WOULD take it to a new account than they have on our causal community side feedback.
If enough people who are looked up to in the community talk to blizzard then blizzard will do something about it. Certainly IF day9 where to talk about the negatives of sc2 then blizzard would do something about it. lets just hope dota 2 doesnt take over the community when dota 2 comes out and everyone notices teamliquid sponsors a new f2p game and realizes that it is fun as hell and much more community friendly than sc 2.
PS: blizzard makes enough money from WoW, meaning they dont give a damn about side projects like Sc2 and D3 anymore, but they do give a damn if the right people tell them the negatives of this shit ass game
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This is a dead end debate unfortunately. Yes it would be nice if Blizzard would implement chat channels and all that shit and mass tweeting them might help, but Starcraft is and RTS and LoL is a MOBA. That fact is the most important part of this argument. If some viewer loves the RTS genre do people really think that person will be like "FUCK IT, this game is losing viewers so I'm going to stop watching this, the best RTS out there, for a MOBA....". Do people really think that will happen? some people may start to watch both, but the two genres of game are far too different for a mass viewer swing. This is the reason Starcraft 2 will not die, UNLESS, another RTS, or something very similar, comes along that's better than Starcraft 2. And if that happens then that's fucking great! Imagine if something like BW 2 came out? That would be awesome and I hope something like that happens. But please people, don't be so silly to think that an RTS will "die" at the hands of a MOBA... Won't happen.
To talk more about sponsors now; sponsors are the most important part in the growth of e-sports and the growth of SC2 or LoL. This should be pretty clear to everyone, even though it didn't get brought up enough(or at all?), on inside the game. Now, sponsors only sponsor a team or a tournament because they want people who know about, and watch the team, to buy their products. That being said, people who watch SC2 have most likely paid $60 to play the game and have a computer that is capable of running the game(mid to high end rig). While many people who play LoL only started playing LoL because it looked decent and it's FREE TO PLAY. LoL players also do not require a very good computer to play the game. A sponsor will look at these things(not factoring in where the views are coming from at all) and think, "hmm, I bet people who play and watch SC2 are willing to spend more money on these products, especially things like hardware and expensive peripherals".
Above are two reasons LoL will not "kill" SC2 now or ever, despite having more viewers, because it's not just about the viewers. So please please please can everyone stop spreading negativity all over the community and remember how much we all love starcraft. It's not going anywhere(unless BW2 magically appears... fingers crossed ^^)
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EPT
