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[Show] Inside The Game - Official Thread - Page 310

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
October 24 2012 07:28 GMT
#6181
I thought DJwheat reacted that way because Destiny said his point and then bowed out before people could interject.
I'd be pretty irritated if my guest dashed off after he had enough and deserted the whole stream/show.

I don't blame Destiny for getting mad, it was pretty heated; but djwheat also had reasons to get mad too.

That's my perception, I didn't even get to the hi-5 part.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
MrSourGit
Profile Joined August 2012
England135 Posts
October 24 2012 07:29 GMT
#6182
Maybe If Destiny didn't make every sentence seem like Armageddon was impending he wouldn't look like just a whiney bitch .
Winston Churchill - ''I may be drunk, Miss , but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly'
TheDraken
Profile Joined July 2011
United States640 Posts
October 24 2012 07:29 GMT
#6183
On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated.



he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation.


Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right?


you like being popular off your bad reputation?
fast food. y u no make me fast? <( ಠ益ಠ <)
1handsomE
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States199 Posts
October 24 2012 07:30 GMT
#6184
On October 24 2012 16:25 itiswhatitis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 16:14 1handsomE wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:10 itiswhatitis wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:08 1handsomE wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:06 itiswhatitis wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:04 1handsomE wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:02 itiswhatitis wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:00 1handsomE wrote:
On October 24 2012 15:37 itiswhatitis wrote:
On October 24 2012 15:35 1handsomE wrote:
[quote]

Do you like LoL better than SC2? Your argument hinges on it, so I am curious.


Really? After he wrote all that, that's what you respond with? He didn't even say he liked it better. The post is right there to re-read...


That's why I am asking, he never said either way. But if he doesn't like LoL better, than his argument is invalid. He says riot is doing a better job, then he should like their game better right? common sense.

So to your post I say what the heck man?


That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that believing a company is doing a better job means that you like their game more. It doesn't, I don't know where you got that.


If the game isn't better then on what scale are they doing better? Perhaps there is something you don't understand... this is very basic...


Don't try to talk to me like I don't understand what I'm saying. It really is simple. Believing a company is doing a better job at supporting and growing their product does NOT mean you prefer that game automatically. Do you not see that? I could say there are many companies who support their products better than Bliz, that does not mean I prefer those games over Bliz games. I like the games I like.


But since we are talking about an opinion, and this type of thing is only quantifiable by an opinion, than how on earth can one do better and produce worse? Your opinion matters because doing better is not quantifiable outside of anything outside of opinion.

You can say 'they put more money into their game', or 'they did x,y,z feature', but you can't say better. it has to be a better product to be better. Don't know how this is complicated.


Your unnecessary condescension is getting on my nerves. You aren't as smart as you think you are and you are arguing pointless semantics while ignoring my point. Believing a company HANDLES their game better does not mean you think they made a better game. Please stop with all the "it's simple stuff" crap, I obviously do understand what you are saying, you've not said one thing that was over my head.


In truth, I think you are ignoring my point. I am saying 'how are you quantifying this?' To me, it seems like if they 'handled' it better, they would produce a 'better' game.

Like I said before, you can say 'they put more money', or 'they have x,y,z feature', but using generalizations on opinions requires you to like the end product better. Otherwise your generalization about them 'handling it better' is invalid. Which is what I was saying in the very first place.

EDIT: And the implied piece of this argument is that the end product, not the means to get there is all that matters. And if you like SC2 more than LoL does it matter if LoL is pumping money into the game/ doing x,y,z feature? The clear answer is, no.


I just STILL don't get your logic. You're still operating under the assumption that better handling = better game. I explained why that isn't so automatically in very simple terms. People like what they like. If I'm not into a game, I won't prefer it over a game I am into, regardless of whether or not I think the company manages the game better. I love sc2 and prefer it over most games, but that definitely doesn't mean I think sc2 is the best handled game out there by their company, far from it.


I am saying you have to quantify. You haven't quantified. All you have said (and re read your own posts if you don't believe me) is that riot handles it better and that other places can handle their products better too. You didn't say how or why.

Because you ONLY said the word better, I am left to assume that better handling = better result.

But the bottom line is I am leading you on to troll yourself. If you come in and say anything else like 'they pay x money and have x feature,' I can simply say, well clearly it's not better handling since you don't like the game better.

It doesn't matter what methods they use, if they had monkeys write all their code and never maintained it, and you still like the game (or product) better, than sorry to say, looks like money codes was the better handling.
MarineKing / Jaedong / DeMusliM / SeleCT / Maru hwaiting!
Haee
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
522 Posts
October 24 2012 07:30 GMT
#6185
one of my favorite itg episodes yet.
Tantaburs
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1825 Posts
October 24 2012 07:31 GMT
#6186
On October 24 2012 16:27 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 16:25 Tantaburs wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:
Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.

sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.

so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people.


It wasn't a great point. Yes Breaking Bad is a better show and yes i think that SC2 is a better game but American Idol makes far more money then Breaking Bad does which is Destiny's point in the LoL vs SC2 argument

but destiny's point is also that SC2 is dying because its not at LoL numbers....


SC2 will never be at LoL's numbers unless it become free to play it is pointless to try and match them.

No matter what you add to SC2 you cannot get better value then free.
"One cannot play StarCraft with clenched fish.." ~Nick "Confucius" Plott
BliptiX
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada324 Posts
October 24 2012 07:31 GMT
#6187
I listened to the mp3 to see what all the fuss was about and I don't get it. Polarizing opinions lead to heated debates and this community has become completely toxic in their expectations. I'm sorry everyone isn't sitting down having a cup of tea and discussing this ridiculously sensationalized topic like gentlemen of the internet.
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
October 24 2012 07:31 GMT
#6188
On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated.



he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation.


Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right?


you like being popular off your bad reputation?

If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not?
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
Matoo-
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
Canada1397 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 07:35:32
October 24 2012 07:32 GMT
#6189
Weird that so many people are OK with SC2 being one of the smaller esports out there. I'm not an extremely competitive person myself and I could agree with this point of view regarding many other topics.

But video games are different. Video games have a short lifespan. It's not like NBA compared to NFL, where even if one is 10 times smaller than the other it's still gonna be there in decades with the same loyal viewership.

SC2 being small doesn't just mean having 10k viewers instead of 100k viewers.
SC2 being small means that in 5 years there might be little to no high-level SC2 content left to watch, instead of going strong for 10 or 15 years.

Esports are all about making an epic run.

I don't follow or care for SC2 much so I'll leave it to everyone to figure out how SC2's run is gonna be.
TheWorldToCome
Profile Joined January 2012
United States452 Posts
October 24 2012 07:33 GMT
#6190
On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:
Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.

sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.

so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people.


I wasn't referring to the marketing aspect of the analogy though. I was talking about how Wheat said something like: if you want to make BB more like AI you would have the BB characters start singing randomly in the show or whatever. That was retarded. since we don't want to mess with the competitive aspect of sc2 that would degrade the overall quality of game play.

You don't have to appeal to casuals in SC2 by changing the actual game itself, but rather you can give them more features that have nothing to do with the in game experience. Skins,clan support,automated tournaments, more team game map pool changes.
Starcraft 2 was designed to have a best race. You play the worst one.
JPSke
Profile Joined August 2010
United States54 Posts
October 24 2012 07:34 GMT
#6191
On October 24 2012 16:31 BliptiX wrote:
I listened to the mp3 to see what all the fuss was about and I don't get it.


You gotta watch the video man. From what I can gather here the high five was a real turning point.
NexCa
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany954 Posts
October 24 2012 07:35 GMT
#6192
I personally would love to see more Proplayer comments in this thread, just to see what they have to say about the current situation at this specific topic
Best Protoss Player 4 ever - Bisu[Shield] || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326242 || THIS IS WHERE WE STAND, THIS IS WHERE THEY FALL, GIVE THEM NOTHING, BUT TAKE FROM THEM EVERYTHING ! || SKT FIGHTIIING
itiswhatitis
Profile Joined February 2011
United States136 Posts
October 24 2012 07:35 GMT
#6193
On October 24 2012 16:30 1handsomE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 16:25 itiswhatitis wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:14 1handsomE wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:10 itiswhatitis wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:08 1handsomE wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:06 itiswhatitis wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:04 1handsomE wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:02 itiswhatitis wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:00 1handsomE wrote:
On October 24 2012 15:37 itiswhatitis wrote:
[quote]

Really? After he wrote all that, that's what you respond with? He didn't even say he liked it better. The post is right there to re-read...


That's why I am asking, he never said either way. But if he doesn't like LoL better, than his argument is invalid. He says riot is doing a better job, then he should like their game better right? common sense.

So to your post I say what the heck man?


That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that believing a company is doing a better job means that you like their game more. It doesn't, I don't know where you got that.


If the game isn't better then on what scale are they doing better? Perhaps there is something you don't understand... this is very basic...


Don't try to talk to me like I don't understand what I'm saying. It really is simple. Believing a company is doing a better job at supporting and growing their product does NOT mean you prefer that game automatically. Do you not see that? I could say there are many companies who support their products better than Bliz, that does not mean I prefer those games over Bliz games. I like the games I like.


But since we are talking about an opinion, and this type of thing is only quantifiable by an opinion, than how on earth can one do better and produce worse? Your opinion matters because doing better is not quantifiable outside of anything outside of opinion.

You can say 'they put more money into their game', or 'they did x,y,z feature', but you can't say better. it has to be a better product to be better. Don't know how this is complicated.


Your unnecessary condescension is getting on my nerves. You aren't as smart as you think you are and you are arguing pointless semantics while ignoring my point. Believing a company HANDLES their game better does not mean you think they made a better game. Please stop with all the "it's simple stuff" crap, I obviously do understand what you are saying, you've not said one thing that was over my head.


In truth, I think you are ignoring my point. I am saying 'how are you quantifying this?' To me, it seems like if they 'handled' it better, they would produce a 'better' game.

Like I said before, you can say 'they put more money', or 'they have x,y,z feature', but using generalizations on opinions requires you to like the end product better. Otherwise your generalization about them 'handling it better' is invalid. Which is what I was saying in the very first place.

EDIT: And the implied piece of this argument is that the end product, not the means to get there is all that matters. And if you like SC2 more than LoL does it matter if LoL is pumping money into the game/ doing x,y,z feature? The clear answer is, no.


I just STILL don't get your logic. You're still operating under the assumption that better handling = better game. I explained why that isn't so automatically in very simple terms. People like what they like. If I'm not into a game, I won't prefer it over a game I am into, regardless of whether or not I think the company manages the game better. I love sc2 and prefer it over most games, but that definitely doesn't mean I think sc2 is the best handled game out there by their company, far from it.


I am saying you have to quantify. You haven't quantified. All you have said (and re read your own posts if you don't believe me) is that riot handles it better and that other places can handle their products better too. You didn't say how or why.

Because you ONLY said the word better, I am left to assume that better handling = better result.

But the bottom line is I am leading you on to troll yourself. If you come in and say anything else like 'they pay x money and have x feature,' I can simply say, well clearly it's not better handling since you don't like the game better.

It doesn't matter what methods they use, if they had monkeys write all their code and never maintained it, and you still like the game (or product) better, than sorry to say, looks like money codes was the better handling.


This is really a pointless argument and I can tell you're the type who just argues for the sake of arguing, so I'm done. But you still don't make real sense. You just keep saying the same thing over and over, that if I prefer how company A handles their product, their product must be better... But that just simply isn't true, as I said. If I like sc2 and hate LoL, I can still appreciate some of the ways LoL is managed which sc2 is not. This whole code monkey thing too, it's just more crap, you're running with a concept you came up with yourself, not one that was even presented. Bliz does maintain their product, just not in the ways me (and many, many others) would like to see them do. Regardless of that, I still do think SC2 is a superior game. They can patch and patch and patch and give LoLers 5000 more things, but in the end it's still LoL and I still like sc2 better.
"The bad artists imitate. The great artists steal." -itiswhatitis
KlinKz
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada149 Posts
October 24 2012 07:35 GMT
#6194
On October 24 2012 16:31 Integra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated.



he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation.


Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right?


you like being popular off your bad reputation?

If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not?

Maybe because Idra and Incontrol not only represent themselves but represents team EG as a whole? esp. Incontrol who is captain and Idra who DESTINY even stated as THE best foreign player of SCBW, Idra is should be on the Hall of Fame but what I must ask is Idra are you really fcking happy as to were sc2 is? u get thousands of viewers that i understand but thats what a typical average LoL player gets daily. like blizzard listens to you guys so please say something for us the community
Go Bisons Go!
Scrabo
Profile Joined May 2012
Northern Ireland11 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 07:37:29
October 24 2012 07:35 GMT
#6195
On October 24 2012 16:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
I thought DJwheat reacted that way because Destiny said his point and then bowed out before people could interject.
I'd be pretty irritated if my guest dashed off after he had enough and deserted the whole stream/show.

I don't blame Destiny for getting mad, it was pretty heated; but djwheat also had reasons to get mad too.

That's my perception, I didn't even get to the hi-5 part.


I don't understand the flak Wheat is getting. He was relatively calm (for Wheat) through the yelling match. He was clearly pissed about it and snapped when Destiny bounced. It was a lame cop out from Destiny to leave like that.

Wheat snapped, turned the DjWheat to 11 and let it go in language that Destiny would be proud of.
Ballistixz
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1269 Posts
October 24 2012 07:35 GMT
#6196
On October 24 2012 16:31 Integra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated.



he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation.


Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right?


you like being popular off your bad reputation?

If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not?



being popular because of bed rep is nothing to be proud of, especially when you try to pretend like you're this superman of the SC2 community.
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
October 24 2012 07:36 GMT
#6197
On October 24 2012 16:32 Matoo- wrote:
Weird that so many people are OK with SC2 being one of the smaller esports out there. I'm not an extremely competitive person myself and I could agree with this point of view regarding many other topics.

But video games are different. Video games have a short lifespan. It's not like NBA compared to NFL, where even if one is 10 times smaller than the other it's still gonna be there in decades with the same loyal viewership.

SC2 being small doesn't just mean having 10k viewers instead of 100k viewers.
SC2 being small means that in 5 years there might be little to no high-level SC2 content left to watch, instead of going strong for 10 or 15 years.

Esports are all about making an epic run.

I don't care or follow SC2 much so I'll leave it to everyone to figure out how SC2's run is gonna be.

but sc2 isn't one of the smaller esports out there. LoL is bigger. Thats it. Dota isn't there yet. No FPS games are close. The FGC isn't as big.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
October 24 2012 07:36 GMT
#6198
On October 24 2012 16:35 Ballistixz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 16:31 Integra wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:29 TheDraken wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:
On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:
Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated.



he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation.


Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right?


you like being popular off your bad reputation?

If he indeed becomes popular in doing it, as you said yourself he was, why not?



being popular because of bed rep is nothing to be proud of, especially when you try to pretend like you're this superman of the SC2 community.

except he isn't popular because of his bad rep.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
Exarl25
Profile Joined November 2010
1887 Posts
October 24 2012 07:38 GMT
#6199
On October 24 2012 16:32 Matoo- wrote:
Weird that so many people are OK with SC2 being one of the smaller esports out there. I'm not an extremely competitive person myself and I could agree with this point of view regarding many other topics.

But video games are different. Video games have a short lifespan. It's not like NBA compared to NFL, where even if one is 10 times smaller than the other it's still gonna be there in decades with the same loyal viewership.

SC2 being small doesn't just mean having 10k viewers instead of 100k viewers.
SC2 being small means that in 5 years there might be little to no high-level SC2 content left to watch, instead of going strong for 10 or 15 years.

Esports are all about making an epic run.

I don't care or follow SC2 much so I'll leave it to everyone to figure out how SC2's run is gonna be.


One of the smaller out there? What are you smoking? Right now only LoL surpasses us, maybe DotA 2 will end up doing so as well. So two mobas, and aside from that? Nothing comes close.

All this doomsaying is as a result of LoL overtaking us, as if not being number one means we are fucked. And that didn't even happen because SC2 had some disastrous fall, LoL just grew to heights that SC2 never reached. If LoL hadn't entered the picture we would all be perfectly happy with the size of the scene we have right now, the sheer amount of content that's out there. Suddenly because we are only second best, it's the end and SC2 is fucked? It's bullshit, and it's all that Destiny's ranting boiled down to, hammering on and on about how many viewers LoL gets as if eSports is a fucking Highlander film and there can only be one.
EntDreamin
Profile Joined September 2012
New Zealand45 Posts
October 24 2012 07:39 GMT
#6200
Watching this from the moment Destiny comes in...
A few things...

1. Destiny is correct, he's terrible at saying things
2. Incontrol needs to open his eyes
3. DJ Wheat needs to calm down and listen to Destiny's points, he's right
4. Idra is right about the community needing to step up to improve things Blizzard won't improve
5. Incontrol, Wheat, and Destiny need to grow up a little.
6. Idra needs to act less smug, it's pretty disgusting
7. Painuser IS the peoples' champ.
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