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On October 24 2012 15:30 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:29 Stormraught wrote:On October 24 2012 14:47 iNcontroL wrote:
I didn't insult destiny the entire time. So tired of people being able to just post lies on forums. Yeah eyah you get ignored and nobody replies but fuck you.
I was insulting during my rant which was hammed to all fuck up. He then did the same thing during all of his rants where he injected personal insults yet I get all the credit?
ALSO what the FUCK. ONLY on the internet would a fucking high five be anything other than a stupid fucking joke. I DON'T ACTUALLY HIGH FIVE GUYS. I Haven't since highschool when I played football. STOP BEING SO NECK BEARDY Your conduct was disgusting along with wheat, steven's and Idra's. I was fully expecting a your mom joke right after that Dudemanbro 80's jock highfive, might as well call you the ogre from revenge of the nerds. It's shit like this what makes the community look like a fucking joke, throw it on the heap with Jessica. IT WAS A FUCKING JOKE HOLY FUCK I THINK I HEARD SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET WAS BEING SARCASTIC. YOU BETTER GO GET EM!
You're a joke. If i get a friend and go verbal bully some kid and afterwards high-five my pal and tell the other kid it was a joke, does that make it okay? It's a joke at the expense of someone else. 'Herp derp all caps'
You guys acted like complete ass hats on the show. Destiny came in gunz' a blazin because YOU started shit. Saying someone's ideas is 'fucking retarded'. How do you think people react to such comments? That's not even all of it either, as previously mentioned by others in the thread. Think of how someone like Destiny would feel, arguing three on one is never easy, especially when the three are bearing down on him with such condescension.
Anyways, quick question for wheat, WTF does a TV show have in common with video games?
That aside, big respect gain for painuser, idra acted like idra, destiny acted like destiny, wheat further confirms that he suffers from brain damage, and respect loss for you, incontrol.
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I generally don't enjoy watching Incontrol, but I have to say I agree with him in every way on Ep. 57. He made me laugh so much this episode, while at the same time, making strong points. Kudos sir, you have earned my respect. (not that you need it!)
*Wheats passion is a credit to our community. Instead of bitching and complaining with that passion, and getting a riot from reddit, Wheat uses the passion to defend.
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On October 24 2012 15:46 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:45 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 15:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I CAN'T BELIEVE DJWHEAT YELLED ON THE S HOW! I LOST RFESPECT FOR HIMS
Who the FUCK calls themselves a Djwheat fan but is upset by him yelling? That's like loving truly refined and calm debate but being an avid fan of CNN/Fox arguments. What the fuck? it's because he's usually amusing to listen to when he yells. this time it was just dumb. That is your opinion. Wheat is emotional. He yells. If you were waiting for an emotionally charged feeling for him to have to become "less of a fan" than you are an idiot. Sorry. And not a real fan. It's like being a fan of Lebron James but FUCK if he misses a free through THAT'S IT!
People aren't mad because wheat you or steven got emotional. Emotion on shows is great and entertaining. People are mad because you all acted like little children. Children arguing over some stupid toy. There is already to much immaturity in esports. You guys being at the core of the movement shouldn't encourage it by acting like butthurt nerds on popular show. Stop telling other people to grow some balls, grow a pair of your own and discuss things like adults.... You complain about "save hots" people complaining, then throw a massive tantrum on air. Sounds hypocritical doesnt it?
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On October 24 2012 15:54 TheExile19 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:49 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 15:19 TheExile19 wrote:On October 24 2012 15:11 TheDraken wrote:
there was no substance. the only thing coming out of the "core" sc2 community is a bunch of hollow garbage. destiny kept trying to get people to fucking figure that out and these two "elite figureheads" of the community did their usual and inanely stood by their egos.
I just want you to understand that nobody, not destiny, not reddit or the scene in general benefits from tedious fanboy posts like these. there is literally nothing of substance, somewhat ironically, in what you're saying to the point where I can't even hazard a guess as to what you could mean. I legitimately feel bad when a destiny supporter accuses other personalities of ego worship when the man's own ego got him onto the show last minute to be "insulted" in the first place. if you don't understand what people post then don't bother replying. you're spotlighting your ignorance to me like it's somehow to your benefit. thank you anyway for your self-beration. makes it easier for me. I understand you in that we speak the same language but not in what you actually refer to; I'm not going to bother engaging you when you speak in opaque generalities. I only bothered to respond because I personally find you laughable but since I also know what it's like to have been a teenager with a passion, I figured I would give you some helpful tips on how to provoke the actual argument and legitimate attention you so desperately yearn for.
that's called being out of the loop. don't try to be that guy that jumps into the circle and have an opinion.
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On October 24 2012 15:41 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:37 MuR wrote:On October 24 2012 15:28 MaestroSC wrote:On October 24 2012 15:23 MuR wrote:On October 24 2012 14:58 MaestroSC wrote:On October 24 2012 14:33 VanGarde wrote:On October 24 2012 14:28 MaestroSC wrote:
Destiny: Less people are watching SC2
DjWheat: WRONG! More people watch all things on twitchtv than before.
Didnt even acknowledge the question at all. im at roughly 1:20:00 in the vod if anyone wants to check...
He didnt acknowledge SC2 streams specifically at all, because Idra, Geoff, and PainUser ALL would have agreed with what Destiny said, but Wheat heard the question and substituted his own Wow did no one take elementary school math? So if I have 100 apples and I divide them evenly and put into 10 baskets. Then someone takes out all of the apples and doubles the number of apples, adds 20 extra baskets and spreads the apples out evenly in all of the baskets. Destiny: The number of apples have gone down. DjWheat: No, the number of apples have actually increased but there are less in each single basket. Dertiny: Oh really?! Well ask basket number 4 then if it has more apples in it! maybe because your from Sweden you didnt understand my basic english.... Destiny said "Less people are watching SC2" and Wheats response was "More people are watching twitchtv and video games" Destiny was talking about SC2 and Wheat said "but more people are watching other games" he didnt even address what Steven said... I am not saying that Wheat was wrong. I am not saying that spreading an equal number across a greater variety = less. I am saying, Steven was talking about SC2 stream counts. Wheat wasnt. Steven wasnt saying "nobody watches twitch" he was saying "people arent watching SC2 on twitch as much" which is true,, and Wheat ignored what he said, just like you did. Congrats on being unable to comprehend what both I and Steven said. Why are you so petty? The instance you are referring to, where Wheat "misinterpreted" what destiny said, was probably for the good, as he chose instead to elaborate on a more relevant point. By the way, I found the point in the VOD to which you are referring, and here is the dialogue. Destiny: Ya, well, compared to maybe a couple years ago, but stream viewership numbers for everything is down now compared to six months ago... And then, Wheat made his point about how viewership is now diffused amongst various games, etc, and that stream numbers overall have risen. If you're going to be pedantic, at least get it right. Also, I think you understand the math, but its significance eludes you. Because by "everything" he wasnt referring exclusively to SC2? Please see my post about context. Do you really think the man WHOSE MAIN POINT was "LoL IS GROWING AND SC2 IS DYING" is implying that ALL games/streams viewcounts are down? If you really believe that Steven was arguing for viewership about other games... then there is nothing I can do to help you understand anything. Congrats on using another quote out of context... you should be a journalist. Destiny was referring to SC2, I am aware of this, but you fabricated dialogue, which I corrected. Destiny's language was not so straightforward at that point, he said "everything", which is ambiguous, and it was misinterpreted by Wheat. The ironic thing here, my friend, is that you speak of context. If you had actually weighed in on the arguments, you would know that, despite this mishap in semantics, which is petty, DjWheat's retort was relevant to the overall argument. So you are correcting me with "you misquoted.... but you were right" And your second point is pretty much EVERONE's point.... DjWheat and Steven were arguing about different things...i feel like i said this in the first post of mine you quoted...
Steven was Arguing for SC2 viewership, Djwheat was arguing for game viewership (including ALL video games).Wheat's retort was relevant to HIS argument, but not Stevens.
....
I think you're confused. Perhaps I can remedy this.
Destiny is dramatic, and is suggesting that less viewership for SC2 streams is indicative of a dying scene, with no hope.
DjWheat attempted to criticize this logical error by suggesting that stream numbers will naturally go down amongst a more diverse field of E-sport titles.
He was, essentially, looking at the bigger picture, and suggesting that the stream numbers leveling off for Starcraft alone is not necessarily bad, given that e-sports as a whole is growing. It is a false dichotomy, to think that Starcraft must be number one, or it must be dead.
So yes, his point about stream numbers going up for all twitch channels (all games), was in response to Destiny's point. You're ignoring his argument though, or dismissing it, thinking it is not relevant because of a stupid, petty mishap of words. Or perhaps you just didn't comprehend it?
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On October 24 2012 15:48 TheExile19 wrote:
jpske I was on board with you until you resorted in the end to the same tiresome all-or-nothing gambit that destiny espouses. idra never went so far as to say supporting sc2 was a waste of time just because we might face a strong, more popular competitor in a notably populist game, that's all you. furthermore, comparative decline is not a decline in the scene or how well SC2 is actually doing but a reactionary stance to the runaway success of league, and honestly I wasn't even aware LoL was "out-innovating, out-marketing" anybody. it simply has an inherent casual appeal, not really the same thing.
Are you kidding? "Inherent casual appeal" is exactly what innovation and marketing is all about. It's all about enhancing the consumer experience. You can look down on it all you want but those two games have far, far superior initial experiences for players than this game does. They took a competitive environment, made it cartoony and fun, got it to run on mediocre PCs, allowed people to dip their toes in without paying a dime, made them WANT to spend ten dollars on a freaking skin, and created the biggest revolution in the PC gaming industry since WoW. And you don't want to learn any lessons from that?
And I say supporting SC2 in its current form is something of a waste of time because if the developer doesn't care enough to improve its product why am I spending hours and cash doing so myself? Why should I buy HOTS? Why should I keep watching a game that is almost impossible for me to play with my friends? If Blizzard isn't going to improve my experience why should I keep supporting them?
I will though, because I believe it is a great game. It just deserves better. To accept stagnation when everyone around you is rapidly evolving with the times is ludicrous to me.
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United States199 Posts
On October 24 2012 15:37 itiswhatitis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:35 1handsomE wrote:On October 24 2012 15:33 JPSke wrote:
Why don't we spend 14 more pages talking about bullshit and drama instead of addressing the real issue at hand.
SC2 is in comparative if not actual decline. It went from a flagship for E-sports to a major competitor to a somewhat nostalgic tertiary figure in 18 months. Its direct competitors have out-innovated it, out-marketed it, and out-positioned it with a free to play model, integrated advertising, LAN support, and a social integration within their client.
More importantly, the developers behind the two games dominating the current E-Sports market are incredibly responsive and engage with their playerbase regularly. Riot, much like Blizzard, develops at a glacial pace, but they do so while, for the most part, keeping their customers in the loop and maintaining a positive relationship. Blizzard's quality of game has fallen off a cliff, they don't listen to literally anyone, and for their last four releases I would wager to say customer satisfaction has been majorly lacking.
What does this all have to do with Destiny's point, and ITG's reaction? Well everyone on the show agreed that Blizzard sucks, they aren't communicative, and that they would like changes to be made. However the crux of their argument seemed to be that Destiny went about advocating for that change in the wrong way. He was over the top. He was doom and gloom. He made up statistics. This is all fine, but their corrective measures seemed to be to tell Destiny that "This isn't the way to do it". The problem is that the way the ITG guys are advocating is the way they've been trying to do it for two years, and it clearly isn't working. So maybe Destiny made some mistakes in how he framed his argument, but his overall point about the need to somehow spur Blizzard into action remains. While the SC2 scene certainly isn't going to disappear it is going to be left further and further behind by existing and up and coming competitors who are being actively developed for, who do bring in casual players, who do monetize their product without a major up front cost, and who understand the power of integration within the game client itself.
So I ask those of you who care about the Starcraft scene, what can we do about it? It seems to be that now, when Blizzard is finishing development and starting their marketing campaign for a new, premium expansion, is the exact right time to apply a little pressure. They want to sell those boxes, yet they refuse to engage with the community in any meaningful sort of way and address the concerns that are dragging this game down. When, if not now, are we going to figure out a way to get the support from Blizzard we need? Or is it as IdrA said, a lost cause, Blizzard won't change no matter what we do, and we're all wasting our time playing/following/spectating on a game that has very little development support and no real hope of long term growth?
Or, you know, keep calling each other shitheads and worrying about who started it. Do you like LoL better than SC2? Your argument hinges on it, so I am curious. Really? After he wrote all that, that's what you respond with? He didn't even say he liked it better. The post is right there to re-read...
That's why I am asking, he never said either way. But if he doesn't like LoL better, than his argument is invalid. He says riot is doing a better job, then he should like their game better right? common sense.
So to your post I say what the heck man?
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On October 24 2012 15:56 Flaw wrote:
You're a joke. If i get a friend and go verbal bully some kid and afterwards high-five my pal and tell the other kid it was a joke, does that make it okay? It's a joke at the expense of someone else. 'Herp derp all caps'
You guys acted like complete ass hats on the show. Destiny came in gunz' a blazin because YOU started shit. Saying someone's ideas is 'fucking retarded'. How do you think people react to such comments? That's not even all of it either, as previously mentioned by others in the thread. Think of how someone like Destiny would feel, arguing three on one is never easy, especially when the three are bearing down on him with such condescension.
there's no contract binding destiny to come in and argue poorly on every show that mentions him, just his misguided attempts to keep his badly tarnished name alive. there's fault to be found in almost every participant in the discussion, but don't make it out to be like destiny couldn't have been mature and avoided charging into a situation that spelled nothing but doom.
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This thread has turned into such a cesspool spawning retarded comment after retarded comment it almost makes me want to go reread older SotG thread posts....
OK, maybe not that bad, but seriously - if there's one thing the SC2 community on Reddit and TL know how to do it's blow things out of proportion and pretend anything is important. I know this game breeds passion in a lot of people around here, but seriously; take a fucking deep breath and step away from your computers when you get this involved in such a trivial fucking matter. It's not enlightening, entertaining, or interesting; just trivial, annoying, and childish.
Don't believe me? Just take an honest look at random posts in this past 8 hours about this topic and see if there's a single enlightening or interesting thing that has been said.
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On October 24 2012 15:59 JPSke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:48 TheExile19 wrote:
jpske I was on board with you until you resorted in the end to the same tiresome all-or-nothing gambit that destiny espouses. idra never went so far as to say supporting sc2 was a waste of time just because we might face a strong, more popular competitor in a notably populist game, that's all you. furthermore, comparative decline is not a decline in the scene or how well SC2 is actually doing but a reactionary stance to the runaway success of league, and honestly I wasn't even aware LoL was "out-innovating, out-marketing" anybody. it simply has an inherent casual appeal, not really the same thing.
Are you kidding? "Inherent casual appeal" is exactly what innovation and marketing is all about. It's all about enhancing the consumer experience. You can look down on it all you want but those two games have far, far superior initial experiences for players than this game does. They took a competitive environment, made it cartoony and fun, got it to run on mediocre PCs, allowed people to dip their toes in without paying a dime, made them WANT to spend ten dollars on a freaking skin, and created the biggest revolution in the PC gaming industry since WoW. And you don't want to learn any lessons from that? And I say supporting SC2 in its current form is something of a waste of time because if the developer doesn't care enough to improve its product why am I spending hours and cash doing so myself? Why should I buy HOTS? Why should I keep watching a game that is almost impossible for me to play with my friends? If Blizzard isn't going to improve my experience why should I keep supporting them? I will though, because I believe it is a great game. It just deserves better. To accept stagnation when everyone around you is rapidly evolving with the times is ludicrous to me.
There is no room for sound reasoning in this thread, could you please sling insults and make only pointless and meaningless statements like everyone else?
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On October 24 2012 15:52 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:51 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 15:30 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 15:29 Stormraught wrote:On October 24 2012 14:47 iNcontroL wrote:
I didn't insult destiny the entire time. So tired of people being able to just post lies on forums. Yeah eyah you get ignored and nobody replies but fuck you.
I was insulting during my rant which was hammed to all fuck up. He then did the same thing during all of his rants where he injected personal insults yet I get all the credit?
ALSO what the FUCK. ONLY on the internet would a fucking high five be anything other than a stupid fucking joke. I DON'T ACTUALLY HIGH FIVE GUYS. I Haven't since highschool when I played football. STOP BEING SO NECK BEARDY Your conduct was disgusting along with wheat, steven's and Idra's. I was fully expecting a your mom joke right after that Dudemanbro 80's jock highfive, might as well call you the ogre from revenge of the nerds. It's shit like this what makes the community look like a fucking joke, throw it on the heap with Jessica. IT WAS A FUCKING JOKE HOLY FUCK I THINK I HEARD SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET WAS BEING SARCASTIC. YOU BETTER GO GET EM! you say this every time. it was a joke. it was a joke. i was joking. you people need to take a joke. if you keep making "jokes" that make you look like a dick, people are going to stop seeing them as jokes and call you out for what has simply become your personality. aka Destiny's entire career...
Lol, you must realize Destiny is actually one of the players that has lived off his streaming... to say he doesnt really need to have a career in SC2... but lets ask other players who's SC2 careers are striving.... i must say not much because most players live off of their team and sponsorship where there probably isnt 100% independent compared to destiny himself (but grubby too he is much more successful I must point out)
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On October 24 2012 15:56 FreedomMurder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:46 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 15:45 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 15:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I CAN'T BELIEVE DJWHEAT YELLED ON THE S HOW! I LOST RFESPECT FOR HIMS
Who the FUCK calls themselves a Djwheat fan but is upset by him yelling? That's like loving truly refined and calm debate but being an avid fan of CNN/Fox arguments. What the fuck? it's because he's usually amusing to listen to when he yells. this time it was just dumb. That is your opinion. Wheat is emotional. He yells. If you were waiting for an emotionally charged feeling for him to have to become "less of a fan" than you are an idiot. Sorry. And not a real fan. It's like being a fan of Lebron James but FUCK if he misses a free through THAT'S IT! People aren't mad because wheat you or steven got emotional. Emotion on shows is great and entertaining. People are mad because you all acted like little children. Children arguing over some stupid toy. There is already to much immaturity in esports. You guys being at the core of the movement shouldn't encourage it by acting like butthurt nerds on popular show. Stop telling other people to grow some balls, grow a pair of your own and discuss things like adults.... You complain about "save hots" people complaining, then throw a massive tantrum on air. Sounds hypocritical doesnt it?
Destiny gave that conversation no chance to be discussed like adults. Idra and iNcontrol tried for a while then gave up on it and it devolved into shouting over each other and it was going in circles. While the show was going on people were posting telling Wheat to drop the call on Destiny cause it was so bad.
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On October 24 2012 15:56 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:44 Ballistixz wrote:On October 24 2012 15:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I CAN'T BELIEVE DJWHEAT YELLED ON THE S HOW! I LOST RFESPECT FOR HIMS
Who the FUCK calls themselves a Djwheat fan but is upset by him yelling? That's like loving truly refined and calm debate but being an avid fan of CNN/Fox arguments. What the fuck? i NEVER was a DJwheat fan. this only made me view the guy as a arrogant 13 year old, just like you are making yourself out to be like a arrogant internet tough guy on the forums. infact TBH ive seen no difference at all between you, destiny, and DJwheat. you all acted in the same way. I see wheat's reaction as incredibly human. Compared to wheat, destiny is not as big (just the troof, nothing more). You let him on your show, and expect him to be somewhat reasonable. From second 1 he is yelling/sounding incoherent. incontrol wrecks him in the arguments for 15 minutes straight before he pulls his stunt and leaves. he pulls that on your show, and there's nothing you can do about it. I think I would be pretty mad too.
utter and complete BS. "wrecks him in the argument for 15 mins"? you said it yourself, all parties involves were spewing inchoherrent BS that no one understood. no points were made, everyone was talking over everyone else, and poor painuser was ignored almost entirely.
his reaction was definitely human tho. human with the intelligence of a 8 year old.
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On October 24 2012 16:00 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:37 itiswhatitis wrote:On October 24 2012 15:35 1handsomE wrote:On October 24 2012 15:33 JPSke wrote:
Why don't we spend 14 more pages talking about bullshit and drama instead of addressing the real issue at hand.
SC2 is in comparative if not actual decline. It went from a flagship for E-sports to a major competitor to a somewhat nostalgic tertiary figure in 18 months. Its direct competitors have out-innovated it, out-marketed it, and out-positioned it with a free to play model, integrated advertising, LAN support, and a social integration within their client.
More importantly, the developers behind the two games dominating the current E-Sports market are incredibly responsive and engage with their playerbase regularly. Riot, much like Blizzard, develops at a glacial pace, but they do so while, for the most part, keeping their customers in the loop and maintaining a positive relationship. Blizzard's quality of game has fallen off a cliff, they don't listen to literally anyone, and for their last four releases I would wager to say customer satisfaction has been majorly lacking.
What does this all have to do with Destiny's point, and ITG's reaction? Well everyone on the show agreed that Blizzard sucks, they aren't communicative, and that they would like changes to be made. However the crux of their argument seemed to be that Destiny went about advocating for that change in the wrong way. He was over the top. He was doom and gloom. He made up statistics. This is all fine, but their corrective measures seemed to be to tell Destiny that "This isn't the way to do it". The problem is that the way the ITG guys are advocating is the way they've been trying to do it for two years, and it clearly isn't working. So maybe Destiny made some mistakes in how he framed his argument, but his overall point about the need to somehow spur Blizzard into action remains. While the SC2 scene certainly isn't going to disappear it is going to be left further and further behind by existing and up and coming competitors who are being actively developed for, who do bring in casual players, who do monetize their product without a major up front cost, and who understand the power of integration within the game client itself.
So I ask those of you who care about the Starcraft scene, what can we do about it? It seems to be that now, when Blizzard is finishing development and starting their marketing campaign for a new, premium expansion, is the exact right time to apply a little pressure. They want to sell those boxes, yet they refuse to engage with the community in any meaningful sort of way and address the concerns that are dragging this game down. When, if not now, are we going to figure out a way to get the support from Blizzard we need? Or is it as IdrA said, a lost cause, Blizzard won't change no matter what we do, and we're all wasting our time playing/following/spectating on a game that has very little development support and no real hope of long term growth?
Or, you know, keep calling each other shitheads and worrying about who started it. Do you like LoL better than SC2? Your argument hinges on it, so I am curious. Really? After he wrote all that, that's what you respond with? He didn't even say he liked it better. The post is right there to re-read... That's why I am asking, he never said either way. But if he doesn't like LoL better, than his argument is invalid. He says riot is doing a better job, then he should like their game better right? common sense. So to your post I say what the heck man?
That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that believing a company is doing a better job means that you like their game more. It doesn't, I don't know where you got that.
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On October 24 2012 15:57 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:54 TheExile19 wrote:On October 24 2012 15:49 TheDraken wrote:On October 24 2012 15:19 TheExile19 wrote:On October 24 2012 15:11 TheDraken wrote:
there was no substance. the only thing coming out of the "core" sc2 community is a bunch of hollow garbage. destiny kept trying to get people to fucking figure that out and these two "elite figureheads" of the community did their usual and inanely stood by their egos.
I just want you to understand that nobody, not destiny, not reddit or the scene in general benefits from tedious fanboy posts like these. there is literally nothing of substance, somewhat ironically, in what you're saying to the point where I can't even hazard a guess as to what you could mean. I legitimately feel bad when a destiny supporter accuses other personalities of ego worship when the man's own ego got him onto the show last minute to be "insulted" in the first place. if you don't understand what people post then don't bother replying. you're spotlighting your ignorance to me like it's somehow to your benefit. thank you anyway for your self-beration. makes it easier for me. I understand you in that we speak the same language but not in what you actually refer to; I'm not going to bother engaging you when you speak in opaque generalities. I only bothered to respond because I personally find you laughable but since I also know what it's like to have been a teenager with a passion, I figured I would give you some helpful tips on how to provoke the actual argument and legitimate attention you so desperately yearn for. that's called being out of the loop. don't try to be that guy that jumps into the circle and have an opinion.
you realize I've been here arguing for pages before you turned up, correct? I mean, holy shit, at least make me work for these.
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incredibly divisive nonsense tonight. won't be tuning back in unless it's addressed apologetically. a masturbatory high-five after parroting " fuck off. get back to LoL" to an active community member only because of a disagreement to the future of Starcraft is so far below my expectations.
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United States199 Posts
On October 24 2012 16:02 itiswhatitis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:00 1handsomE wrote:On October 24 2012 15:37 itiswhatitis wrote:On October 24 2012 15:35 1handsomE wrote:On October 24 2012 15:33 JPSke wrote:
Why don't we spend 14 more pages talking about bullshit and drama instead of addressing the real issue at hand.
SC2 is in comparative if not actual decline. It went from a flagship for E-sports to a major competitor to a somewhat nostalgic tertiary figure in 18 months. Its direct competitors have out-innovated it, out-marketed it, and out-positioned it with a free to play model, integrated advertising, LAN support, and a social integration within their client.
More importantly, the developers behind the two games dominating the current E-Sports market are incredibly responsive and engage with their playerbase regularly. Riot, much like Blizzard, develops at a glacial pace, but they do so while, for the most part, keeping their customers in the loop and maintaining a positive relationship. Blizzard's quality of game has fallen off a cliff, they don't listen to literally anyone, and for their last four releases I would wager to say customer satisfaction has been majorly lacking.
What does this all have to do with Destiny's point, and ITG's reaction? Well everyone on the show agreed that Blizzard sucks, they aren't communicative, and that they would like changes to be made. However the crux of their argument seemed to be that Destiny went about advocating for that change in the wrong way. He was over the top. He was doom and gloom. He made up statistics. This is all fine, but their corrective measures seemed to be to tell Destiny that "This isn't the way to do it". The problem is that the way the ITG guys are advocating is the way they've been trying to do it for two years, and it clearly isn't working. So maybe Destiny made some mistakes in how he framed his argument, but his overall point about the need to somehow spur Blizzard into action remains. While the SC2 scene certainly isn't going to disappear it is going to be left further and further behind by existing and up and coming competitors who are being actively developed for, who do bring in casual players, who do monetize their product without a major up front cost, and who understand the power of integration within the game client itself.
So I ask those of you who care about the Starcraft scene, what can we do about it? It seems to be that now, when Blizzard is finishing development and starting their marketing campaign for a new, premium expansion, is the exact right time to apply a little pressure. They want to sell those boxes, yet they refuse to engage with the community in any meaningful sort of way and address the concerns that are dragging this game down. When, if not now, are we going to figure out a way to get the support from Blizzard we need? Or is it as IdrA said, a lost cause, Blizzard won't change no matter what we do, and we're all wasting our time playing/following/spectating on a game that has very little development support and no real hope of long term growth?
Or, you know, keep calling each other shitheads and worrying about who started it. Do you like LoL better than SC2? Your argument hinges on it, so I am curious. Really? After he wrote all that, that's what you respond with? He didn't even say he liked it better. The post is right there to re-read... That's why I am asking, he never said either way. But if he doesn't like LoL better, than his argument is invalid. He says riot is doing a better job, then he should like their game better right? common sense. So to your post I say what the heck man? That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that believing a company is doing a better job means that you like their game more. It doesn't, I don't know where you got that.
If the game isn't better then on what scale are they doing better? Perhaps there is something you don't understand... this is very basic...
EDIT: or even better yet, how is it that a company could do better and produce a worse game?
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Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
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I think the real problem with SC2 isn't that Blizzard sucks or that it's too difficult for casuals to play, but rather that the game itself is just bad.
I followed the WC3 pro scene for years while being the most casual scrub in the world, because WC3 was an amazing game and therefore it was fun to follow. Same goes for BW. I was D+ on ICCup but I loved following the pro scene. In my opinion SC2 is almost ONLY fun if you can play it full-time. It really doesn't have anything else going for it. There are zero redeeming factors.
So, yeah, the game just kind of sucks. Either rework it from the ground up or it will be dead within a few years tops.
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On October 24 2012 16:04 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:02 itiswhatitis wrote:On October 24 2012 16:00 1handsomE wrote:On October 24 2012 15:37 itiswhatitis wrote:On October 24 2012 15:35 1handsomE wrote:On October 24 2012 15:33 JPSke wrote:
Why don't we spend 14 more pages talking about bullshit and drama instead of addressing the real issue at hand.
SC2 is in comparative if not actual decline. It went from a flagship for E-sports to a major competitor to a somewhat nostalgic tertiary figure in 18 months. Its direct competitors have out-innovated it, out-marketed it, and out-positioned it with a free to play model, integrated advertising, LAN support, and a social integration within their client.
More importantly, the developers behind the two games dominating the current E-Sports market are incredibly responsive and engage with their playerbase regularly. Riot, much like Blizzard, develops at a glacial pace, but they do so while, for the most part, keeping their customers in the loop and maintaining a positive relationship. Blizzard's quality of game has fallen off a cliff, they don't listen to literally anyone, and for their last four releases I would wager to say customer satisfaction has been majorly lacking.
What does this all have to do with Destiny's point, and ITG's reaction? Well everyone on the show agreed that Blizzard sucks, they aren't communicative, and that they would like changes to be made. However the crux of their argument seemed to be that Destiny went about advocating for that change in the wrong way. He was over the top. He was doom and gloom. He made up statistics. This is all fine, but their corrective measures seemed to be to tell Destiny that "This isn't the way to do it". The problem is that the way the ITG guys are advocating is the way they've been trying to do it for two years, and it clearly isn't working. So maybe Destiny made some mistakes in how he framed his argument, but his overall point about the need to somehow spur Blizzard into action remains. While the SC2 scene certainly isn't going to disappear it is going to be left further and further behind by existing and up and coming competitors who are being actively developed for, who do bring in casual players, who do monetize their product without a major up front cost, and who understand the power of integration within the game client itself.
So I ask those of you who care about the Starcraft scene, what can we do about it? It seems to be that now, when Blizzard is finishing development and starting their marketing campaign for a new, premium expansion, is the exact right time to apply a little pressure. They want to sell those boxes, yet they refuse to engage with the community in any meaningful sort of way and address the concerns that are dragging this game down. When, if not now, are we going to figure out a way to get the support from Blizzard we need? Or is it as IdrA said, a lost cause, Blizzard won't change no matter what we do, and we're all wasting our time playing/following/spectating on a game that has very little development support and no real hope of long term growth?
Or, you know, keep calling each other shitheads and worrying about who started it. Do you like LoL better than SC2? Your argument hinges on it, so I am curious. Really? After he wrote all that, that's what you respond with? He didn't even say he liked it better. The post is right there to re-read... That's why I am asking, he never said either way. But if he doesn't like LoL better, than his argument is invalid. He says riot is doing a better job, then he should like their game better right? common sense. So to your post I say what the heck man? That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that believing a company is doing a better job means that you like their game more. It doesn't, I don't know where you got that. If the game isn't better then on what scale are they doing better? Perhaps there is something you don't understand... this is very basic...
Don't try to talk to me like I don't understand what I'm saying. It really is simple. Believing a company is doing a better job at supporting and growing their product does NOT mean you prefer that game automatically. Do you not see that? I could say there are many companies who support their products better than Bliz, that does not mean I prefer those games over Bliz games. I like the games I like.
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EPT
