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On October 24 2012 15:43 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:41 FreedomMurder wrote:On October 24 2012 15:39 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 15:38 FreedomMurder wrote:
DJ wheat, tournament streaming for video games existed before starcraft 2. Are you kidding me? People watched CS 1.6, CS source, Halo 1-2-3, COD, Smash Bros, Street Fighter, Tekken all BEFORE stracraft 2 was released. ARE YOU THAT BLIND? ARE YOU STUPID? I respected you and incontrol alot before this show but honestly you both + destiny acted like little children. Go re listen. He didn't say SC2 invented online streaming. Before you lose more respect points you should fact check yourself. You completely missed his point. He said that SC2 paved the way for tournament infrastructure, and that noone watched video game tournaments live streamed before SC2. I just watched it. Both of those statements are false. MLG and EVO ran amazing tournaments before SC2 existed. You are once again misunderstanding his point. When he says "pave" he is talking about elevating the standards for streaming and making a "stream" culture. Players, tournaments, shows etc etc.. all being streamed and pushing for higher quality was a focal point that only arose ON THIS SCALE during the SC2 ascension. He is NOT saying there existed no good streamed events prior to SC2.
Personally I think this was a happy coincidence, and SC2 happened to get big just as sites like Twitch/Ustream/Justin etc started to get their shit together for real. I remember a lot more live streams of other stuff, not just Esports, becoming a lot more common during the past couple years as well.
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On October 24 2012 15:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I CAN'T BELIEVE DJWHEAT YELLED ON THE S HOW! I LOST RFESPECT FOR HIMS
Who the FUCK calls themselves a Djwheat fan but is upset by him yelling? That's like loving truly refined and calm debate but being an avid fan of CNN/Fox arguments. What the fuck?
lol Djwheat didnt just yell.... he stood out of his chair and screamed that another grown man was a pussy and a bitch and a coward... and claims to be a mature adult... rewatch the rant he goes on.
noone would give a shit if he yelled "OMG I LOVE HORSES. THEY ARE AWSOME SOUL-LESS CREATURES"
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On October 24 2012 15:45 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:41 AxelTVx wrote:On October 24 2012 15:37 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 15:35 AxelTVx wrote:On October 24 2012 15:30 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 15:28 AxelTVx wrote:On October 24 2012 15:18 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 15:08 AxelTVx wrote:On October 24 2012 14:47 iNcontroL wrote:
I didn't insult destiny the entire time. So tired of people being able to just post lies on forums. Yeah eyah you get ignored and nobody replies but fuck you.
I was insulting during my rant which was hammed to all fuck up. He then did the same thing during all of his rants where he injected personal insults yet I get all the credit?
ALSO what the FUCK. ONLY on the internet would a fucking high five be anything other than a stupid fucking joke. I DON'T ACTUALLY HIGH FIVE GUYS. I Haven't since highschool when I played football. STOP BEING SO NECK BEARDY What the fuck happened to "OH HERP DERP I'M NOT DOING STATE OF THE GAME BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO CAUSE DRAMA. I'M THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON SO I SAY WHATEVER THE FUCK I WANT, AND THAT GET'S ME IN TROUBLE" Seriously? You wanted to avoid drama, and you come up with this shit when you have no idea what the casual gamer wants. Do you really think you can speak for all the casual gamers out there? Destiny certainly can't speak for us either, but when you tried to make yourself the voice of us (similar to what steven did), you just made yourself look completely retarded. It pains me to see you act like this when you're obviously smarter than this stupid bullshit. lol It's best you don't use my own words for your evidence. I usually keep a pretty good record of the context  I am not trying to avoid ALL drama as that is impossible. Just reduce it by not being on the show that has more drama (sotg) and instead be on only one show (itg). nice try though lol. All I can say is have fun with your PR team. Said the all caps "herp derp" guy Well you're the one who's going to get in shit for all this, so why should I care really? It's pretty obvious that the PR team is going to make you apologize, regardless of your thoughts/damage control. Want to bet 500$? "The PR team" who do you think that is on EG? You know, it's pretty funny. This situation is pretty similar to how you wen't off on avilo/naniwa. You're going to be apologizing sooner or later lol. And saying "want to bet 500$?" Really? Come on, think before you type things.... Nice dodge! Let me know when you grow a pair and want to back up _any_ of your claims.. at least you are smart enough to realize you are talking out of your ass and instead of putting money where your mouth is you dodge. The PR team for EG? Where do you get this stuff lol
Talking out of my ass? Yeah, I'm not going to lie, I'm pretty much doing that right now. But I'm just going to look back at these posts, and laugh when you say "I was wrong in the way I handled the situation, etc, etc".
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jpske I was on board with you until you resorted in the end to the same tiresome all-or-nothing gambit that destiny espouses. idra never went so far as to say supporting sc2 was a waste of time just because we might face a strong, more popular competitor in a notably populist game, that's all you. furthermore, comparative decline is not a decline in the scene or how well SC2 is actually doing but a reactionary stance to the runaway success of league, and honestly I wasn't even aware LoL was "out-innovating, out-marketing" anybody. it simply has an inherent casual appeal, not really the same thing.
my personal opinion is that SC2 is fundamentally unattractive to the casual player and that there is almost nothing you can do to foster that relationship even with the suggested sad, misguided ripping off of the microtransactional model. like idra/inc say, I believe the onus is on the tournament organizers and blizzard itself to market the e-sports side of the game, not the actual game itself because frankly it's not a game that fundamentally appeals to any besides the deeply dedicated. this does not make it a bad game, but the cognitive dissonance that occurs when we observe the numbers that LoL draws in can be hard to deal with.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On October 24 2012 15:44 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I CAN'T BELIEVE DJWHEAT YELLED ON THE S HOW! I LOST RFESPECT FOR HIMS
Who the FUCK calls themselves a Djwheat fan but is upset by him yelling? That's like loving truly refined and calm debate but being an avid fan of CNN/Fox arguments. What the fuck? wow it's like people have opinions or different perspectives or something crazy right
LOL
Really? You want to pull this card amidst the menstraul circle jerk going on over our arguments on a show? Imagine if I could be as flippant and passive aggressive as you and just reply to _everyone_ "omgawd it's like, almost like we have different opinions!"
Helll, I could say that to everything!
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On October 24 2012 15:43 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:41 FreedomMurder wrote:On October 24 2012 15:39 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 15:38 FreedomMurder wrote:
DJ wheat, tournament streaming for video games existed before starcraft 2. Are you kidding me? People watched CS 1.6, CS source, Halo 1-2-3, COD, Smash Bros, Street Fighter, Tekken all BEFORE stracraft 2 was released. ARE YOU THAT BLIND? ARE YOU STUPID? I respected you and incontrol alot before this show but honestly you both + destiny acted like little children. Go re listen. He didn't say SC2 invented online streaming. Before you lose more respect points you should fact check yourself. You completely missed his point. He said that SC2 paved the way for tournament infrastructure, and that noone watched video game tournaments live streamed before SC2. I just watched it. Both of those statements are false. MLG and EVO ran amazing tournaments before SC2 existed. You are once again misunderstanding his point. When he says "pave" he is talking about elevating the standards for streaming and making a "stream" culture. Players, tournaments, shows etc etc.. all being streamed and pushing for higher quality was a focal point that only arose ON THIS SCALE during the SC2 ascension. He is NOT saying there existed no good streamed events prior to SC2.
Could also argue growth of streaming tech, and affordable streaming gear (relatively affordable), such as vid cards, fast processors, better internet infrastructure, etc etc. was a more likely correlation to better streams, which eventually lead to increased stream culture, as opposed to attributing it to SC2.
Even if you want to talk about "stream culture" or stream quality, esports related events are just now finally reaching the level of quality of production that Youtube did for recent debate streams, and even before that, google has had quite a few streamed events of excellent quality (like beyond excellent). Sure it's not fair to compare google to small companies like MLG, or Riot (relatively small), or twitch, or own3d, or Valve, etc etc. But, it's not like SC2 spearheaded this overall trend (though it was relatively early adopter in reference to esports). It really could've been any other game or thing that caught on to this "stream culture".
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The comment that Wheat made about American Idol and Breaking Bad was not an entirely relevant analogy for the discussion overall. If there was a way to make Breaking Bad have better viewership numbers without doing *anything* to its actual content, that would be akin to Blizzard fixing the Battle.net issues for Starcraft II. To modify Wheat's example, what if the only way to watch Breaking Bad at this moment was in frustration on a shitty quality TV which cut out for no reason in the middle of every episode, but watching American Idol could be done at anyone's convenience? That experience is, in comparison to LoL, kind of what it's like playing Starcraft as a casual gamer (and frustratingly, as a tournament spectator).
But since you all agree that it's definitely an issue, I won't go any further with that but I thought I'd point out the inconsistencies I heard. And *please*, yelling at the top of your lungs is incredibly annoying. How can you say the dumbest thing Destiny has ever said was his unnecessarily obnoxious proclamation of SC2's impending doom on Reddit, when you counter his argument screaming like a five year old? Thanks Painuser and Idra for not stooping to that level...
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On October 24 2012 15:19 TheExile19 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:11 TheDraken wrote:
there was no substance. the only thing coming out of the "core" sc2 community is a bunch of hollow garbage. destiny kept trying to get people to fucking figure that out and these two "elite figureheads" of the community did their usual and inanely stood by their egos.
I just want you to understand that nobody, not destiny, not reddit or the scene in general benefits from tedious fanboy posts like these. there is literally nothing of substance, somewhat ironically, in what you're saying to the point where I can't even hazard a guess as to what you could mean. I legitimately feel bad when a destiny supporter accuses other personalities of ego worship when the man's own ego got him onto the show last minute to be "insulted" in the first place.
if you don't understand what people post then don't bother replying. you're spotlighting your ignorance to me like it's somehow to your benefit. thank you anyway for your self-beration. makes it easier for me.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On October 24 2012 15:47 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I CAN'T BELIEVE DJWHEAT YELLED ON THE S HOW! I LOST RFESPECT FOR HIMS
Who the FUCK calls themselves a Djwheat fan but is upset by him yelling? That's like loving truly refined and calm debate but being an avid fan of CNN/Fox arguments. What the fuck? lol Djwheat didnt just yell.... he stood out of his chair and screamed that another grown man was a pussy and a bitch and a coward... and claims to be a mature adult... rewatch the rant he goes on. noone would give a shit if he yelled "OMG I LOVE HORSES. THEY ARE AWSOME SOUL-LESS CREATURES"
Yup. He yelled at a guy that rage quitted a show he asked to be on and was conversing on. And you want to get upset because he yelled? Ok.. back to /r/destiny with you!
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On October 24 2012 15:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I CAN'T BELIEVE DJWHEAT YELLED ON THE S HOW! I LOST RFESPECT FOR HIMS
Who the FUCK calls themselves a Djwheat fan but is upset by him yelling? That's like loving truly refined and calm debate but being an avid fan of CNN/Fox arguments. What the fuck?
It has to do with what he was yelling about. Calling out destiny about his immaturity in that particular situation? Perfectly fine. Ignoring the 2 other extremely immature folks involved while ranting against the one? Da fuck?
That said, on reddit wheat said that he didn't hear certain comments ("BTW, I didn't hear the original LoL comment, so I apologize to you. My reaction was frustration from the entire conversation tbh.").
Considering he's the show runner, it's really irresponsible to miss things like that, and was extremely disappointing.
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On October 24 2012 15:48 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:44 SenorChang wrote:On October 24 2012 15:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I CAN'T BELIEVE DJWHEAT YELLED ON THE S HOW! I LOST RFESPECT FOR HIMS
Who the FUCK calls themselves a Djwheat fan but is upset by him yelling? That's like loving truly refined and calm debate but being an avid fan of CNN/Fox arguments. What the fuck? wow it's like people have opinions or different perspectives or something crazy right LOL Really? You want to pull this card amidst the menstraul circle jerk going on over our arguments on a show? Imagine if I could be as flippant and passive aggressive as you and just reply to _everyone_ "omgawd it's like, almost like we have different opinions!" Helll, I could say that to everything!
i like my passive stance better then being a beligerent, arrogant asshole
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On October 24 2012 15:30 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:29 Stormraught wrote:On October 24 2012 14:47 iNcontroL wrote:
I didn't insult destiny the entire time. So tired of people being able to just post lies on forums. Yeah eyah you get ignored and nobody replies but fuck you.
I was insulting during my rant which was hammed to all fuck up. He then did the same thing during all of his rants where he injected personal insults yet I get all the credit?
ALSO what the FUCK. ONLY on the internet would a fucking high five be anything other than a stupid fucking joke. I DON'T ACTUALLY HIGH FIVE GUYS. I Haven't since highschool when I played football. STOP BEING SO NECK BEARDY Your conduct was disgusting along with wheat, steven's and Idra's. I was fully expecting a your mom joke right after that Dudemanbro 80's jock highfive, might as well call you the ogre from revenge of the nerds. It's shit like this what makes the community look like a fucking joke, throw it on the heap with Jessica. IT WAS A FUCKING JOKE HOLY FUCK I THINK I HEARD SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET WAS BEING SARCASTIC. YOU BETTER GO GET EM!
you say this every time. it was a joke. it was a joke. i was joking. you people need to take a joke.
if you keep making "jokes" that make you look like a dick, people are going to stop seeing them as jokes and call you out for what has simply become your personality.
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I don't think anyone in this thread doesn't look like an asshole right now, FYI... just an outside perspective...
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On October 24 2012 15:33 JPSke wrote:
Why don't we spend 14 more pages talking about bullshit and drama instead of addressing the real issue at hand.
SC2 is in comparative if not actual decline. It went from a flagship for E-sports to a major competitor to a somewhat nostalgic tertiary figure in 18 months. Its direct competitors have out-innovated it, out-marketed it, and out-positioned it with a free to play model, integrated advertising, LAN support, and a social integration within their client.
More importantly, the developers behind the two games dominating the current E-Sports market are incredibly responsive and engage with their playerbase regularly. Riot, much like Blizzard, develops at a glacial pace, but they do so while, for the most part, keeping their customers in the loop and maintaining a positive relationship. Blizzard's quality of game has fallen off a cliff, they don't listen to literally anyone, and for their last four releases I would wager to say customer satisfaction has been majorly lacking.
What does this all have to do with Destiny's point, and ITG's reaction? Well everyone on the show agreed that Blizzard sucks, they aren't communicative, and that they would like changes to be made. However the crux of their argument seemed to be that Destiny went about advocating for that change in the wrong way. He was over the top. He was doom and gloom. He made up statistics. This is all fine, but their corrective measures seemed to be to tell Destiny that "This isn't the way to do it". The problem is that the way the ITG guys are advocating is the way they've been trying to do it for two years, and it clearly isn't working. So maybe Destiny made some mistakes in how he framed his argument, but his overall point about the need to somehow spur Blizzard into action remains. While the SC2 scene certainly isn't going to disappear it is going to be left further and further behind by existing and up and coming competitors who are being actively developed for, who do bring in casual players, who do monetize their product without a major up front cost, and who understand the power of integration within the game client itself.
So I ask those of you who care about the Starcraft scene, what can we do about it? It seems to be that now, when Blizzard is finishing development and starting their marketing campaign for a new, premium expansion, is the exact right time to apply a little pressure. They want to sell those boxes, yet they refuse to engage with the community in any meaningful sort of way and address the concerns that are dragging this game down. When, if not now, are we going to figure out a way to get the support from Blizzard we need? Or is it as IdrA said, a lost cause, Blizzard won't change no matter what we do, and we're all wasting our time playing/following/spectating on a game that has very little development support and no real hope of long term growth?
Or, you know, keep calling each other shitheads and worrying about who started it.
I would just like to quote the only reasonable post I have read on this topic and beg Incontrol to respond to it instead of the 4 or 5 guys that are talking shit just to get a rise.
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A feel like a lot of people already felt what destiny expressed before he even said it. He was just a voice that made everyone feel like they weren't alone in their thoughts. If he never said it, I still think people would feel the same negative way about sc2, but it would be silent until HotS sales numbers came out and were lower than expected.
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On October 24 2012 15:51 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:30 iNcontroL wrote:On October 24 2012 15:29 Stormraught wrote:On October 24 2012 14:47 iNcontroL wrote:
I didn't insult destiny the entire time. So tired of people being able to just post lies on forums. Yeah eyah you get ignored and nobody replies but fuck you.
I was insulting during my rant which was hammed to all fuck up. He then did the same thing during all of his rants where he injected personal insults yet I get all the credit?
ALSO what the FUCK. ONLY on the internet would a fucking high five be anything other than a stupid fucking joke. I DON'T ACTUALLY HIGH FIVE GUYS. I Haven't since highschool when I played football. STOP BEING SO NECK BEARDY Your conduct was disgusting along with wheat, steven's and Idra's. I was fully expecting a your mom joke right after that Dudemanbro 80's jock highfive, might as well call you the ogre from revenge of the nerds. It's shit like this what makes the community look like a fucking joke, throw it on the heap with Jessica. IT WAS A FUCKING JOKE HOLY FUCK I THINK I HEARD SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET WAS BEING SARCASTIC. YOU BETTER GO GET EM! you say this every time. it was a joke. it was a joke. i was joking. you people need to take a joke. if you keep making "jokes" that make you look like a dick, people are going to stop seeing them as jokes and call you out for what has simply become your personality.
aka Destiny's entire career...
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On October 24 2012 15:49 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:47 MaestroSC wrote:On October 24 2012 15:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I CAN'T BELIEVE DJWHEAT YELLED ON THE S HOW! I LOST RFESPECT FOR HIMS
Who the FUCK calls themselves a Djwheat fan but is upset by him yelling? That's like loving truly refined and calm debate but being an avid fan of CNN/Fox arguments. What the fuck? lol Djwheat didnt just yell.... he stood out of his chair and screamed that another grown man was a pussy and a bitch and a coward... and claims to be a mature adult... rewatch the rant he goes on. noone would give a shit if he yelled "OMG I LOVE HORSES. THEY ARE AWSOME SOUL-LESS CREATURES" Yup. He yelled at a guy that rage quitted a show he asked to be on and was conversing on. And you want to get upset because he yelled? Ok.. back to /r/destiny with you!
i didnt even know /r/destiny existed...
your right... clearly being against grown men shouting "UR A FUCKING PUSSY BITCH COWARD" to other grown men... makes me a Destiny fanboy...
If anything, a true destiny fanboy would say that I should be arguing FOR Wheat's rant as it is the opposite of censorship and promotes freedom of speech and thought and words are just words and all of that nonsense...
I am actually a bigger fan of iNcontroL =D. I just argue on the side of justice. (well at least what I perceive to be justice... but lets face it... ALL of reality is based on perception. Everyone's reality is their own, when you really think about it)...sorry i <3 philosophy.
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On October 24 2012 15:48 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:44 SenorChang wrote:On October 24 2012 15:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I CAN'T BELIEVE DJWHEAT YELLED ON THE S HOW! I LOST RFESPECT FOR HIMS
Who the FUCK calls themselves a Djwheat fan but is upset by him yelling? That's like loving truly refined and calm debate but being an avid fan of CNN/Fox arguments. What the fuck? wow it's like people have opinions or different perspectives or something crazy right LOL Really? You want to pull this card amidst the menstraul circle jerk going on over our arguments on a show? Imagine if I could be as flippant and passive aggressive as you and just reply to _everyone_ "omgawd it's like, almost like we have different opinions!" Helll, I could say that to everything!
circle jerk? please do not talk about circle jerking.
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On October 24 2012 15:49 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:19 TheExile19 wrote:On October 24 2012 15:11 TheDraken wrote:
there was no substance. the only thing coming out of the "core" sc2 community is a bunch of hollow garbage. destiny kept trying to get people to fucking figure that out and these two "elite figureheads" of the community did their usual and inanely stood by their egos.
I just want you to understand that nobody, not destiny, not reddit or the scene in general benefits from tedious fanboy posts like these. there is literally nothing of substance, somewhat ironically, in what you're saying to the point where I can't even hazard a guess as to what you could mean. I legitimately feel bad when a destiny supporter accuses other personalities of ego worship when the man's own ego got him onto the show last minute to be "insulted" in the first place. if you don't understand what people post then don't bother replying. you're spotlighting your ignorance to me like it's somehow to your benefit. thank you anyway for your self-beration. makes it easier for me.
I understand you in that we speak the same language but not in what you actually refer to; I'm not going to bother engaging you when you speak in opaque generalities. I only responded because I personally find you laughable but since I also know what it's like to have been a teenager with a passion, I figured I would give you some helpful tips on how to provoke the actual argument and legitimate attention you so desperately yearn for.
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On October 24 2012 15:44 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I CAN'T BELIEVE DJWHEAT YELLED ON THE S HOW! I LOST RFESPECT FOR HIMS
Who the FUCK calls themselves a Djwheat fan but is upset by him yelling? That's like loving truly refined and calm debate but being an avid fan of CNN/Fox arguments. What the fuck? i NEVER was a DJwheat fan. this only made me view the guy as a arrogant 13 year old, just like you are making yourself out to be like a arrogant internet tough guy on the forums. infact TBH ive seen no difference at all between you, destiny, and DJwheat. you all acted in the same way.
I see wheat's reaction as incredibly human. Compared to wheat, destiny is not as big (just the troof, nothing more). You let him on your show, and expect him to be somewhat reasonable. From second 1 he is yelling/sounding incoherent. incontrol wrecks him in the arguments for 15 minutes straight before he pulls his stunt and leaves.
he pulls that on your show, and there's nothing you can do about it.
I think I would be pretty mad too.
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EPT
