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On April 30 2011 03:48 Trobot wrote:
Half the point of a ranged spell is forcing you to risk your high-value spellcasters for the potential gain of the spell. In this case, you have to get your High Templar within 9 distance of the ghost in order to cast Feedback, which usually puts the HT in range of the rest of the Terran's army. At the very least, it forces the Protoss to think ahead and put the HT in perfect positioning for an ambush Feedback.
With this glitch/exploit/whatever term you use, all a Protoss has to do is have a handful of High Templar chillaxing back in base, stocking up on mana so that they can Feedback (I figure that this would work for Psionic Storm, as well) units on the opposite side of the map. Couple this with an observer, and you can decimate an opponent's army. For all the detractors supporting this exploit by saying 'it's hard to do, so whatever,' just imagine how hard it ISN'T to do when you have an observer and the enemy has no detection.
A third point to make is that a Protoss no longer has to overproduce High Templar just in case the enemy focus-fires on the HT. All a Protoss has to do is make just enough HT to guarantee perfect feedbacks on the enemy army, and then use the extra population to make his army that much bigger.
It's entirely likely that all these points have been made in the last 6 pages (I only read through the first two before I had to throw in my two cents), but still. This needs patched, and pronto.
This point hasn't been made before, this is the first time someone says it eliminates the range requirement, and I have no idea where you got that from. The only thing it seems to do is give an alternative to actually clicking the ghost, nothing else.
I'm not that sure it's even easier, it's not like everyone use it for inject for many reasons. There really is no reason to scream so loud against it if you haven't even tried it yet, let's wait and see if it is actually imbalanced. Everyone knew about it for inject and noone complained that was an unintended feature, if this becomes more than just a preference thing, then it probally should be removed, but I think we could use a little more testing before raging so hard at something.
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Tried it on the unit test map, it is definitely not as easy as it sounds on maps like Tal'darim, but it didn't take me more than 5 tries to improve my efficiency by quite a bit.
This trick does not require a lot of training, and it is very easy to pull off as long as you have the required vision and is far enough into the game, in order to not have energy waste equalling the end of the game. This trick pretty much trade energy for better chances in a head-to-head battle between the two main armies.
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On April 30 2011 02:41 DreamRaider wrote:
someone report to blizzard for removal :/
This makes feedback way too easy
All the responses like this are unbelievable. All players that aren't trying it for themselves, or reading the rest of the thread.
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On April 30 2011 04:05 FenneK wrote:
This is ridiculous. Why would you put this in the game?
You probably jus tread the first post and replied haven't you
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The only bad part to this is you can't "misfire" a feedback on a unit with no energy. So it's possible to spam click and possibly pick off a few ghosts. Doesn't seem like too big of a deal.
It works both ways, some of my most effective EMPs have been using the minimap. I once played a practice game against my friend, and he was like, "damn man nice EMPs" when in reality I just saw red on the minimap, panicked, selected my control group and threw down two emps in equals spaces apart at the front of his P deathball.
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On April 30 2011 00:00 Huragius wrote:
This needs to me fixed. They are making sc2 skill ceiling just ridiculous. Macro is easy already, don't make micro non-existent.
Also, MC isn't as impressive as I thought him to be.
Whats there to be fixed, if queen can inject in the minimap, why cant ht.
Have you tested thiw yet?
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On April 30 2011 04:05 FenneK wrote:
This is ridiculous. Why would you put this in the game?
The same reason you can cast other spells via minimap? Are we playing the same game?
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On April 30 2011 01:53 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 01:26 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:On April 30 2011 01:24 Naphal wrote:
i watched the video, obviously no ghost got feedbacked twice, because they died due to their 200/200 energy, but if there are lets say, two BCs on top of the bioball, would the minimapfeedbacks target the BCs multiple times?
in other words, is the feedback smart enough to pick the high energy targets if they so happen to be on the same pixel?
at least i dont have to listen to toss how BS and ezy emp is now ~~ you can use emp with the mini-map as well. troll very much? as long as a spell has no target verifier i doubt anyone would use it with the minimap, as it is this tiny detail that allows you to spam 200 times for gosufeedbacking... i seriously doubt even blizzard knew this was possible xD, if it is intentional, the pros better get cloak and MAD observersnipeskillz (yay more raven + thor / viking)
but with emp, even if the toss is spreading his army couldnt you easily use the minimap to target emp each clump of unit pixles? wouldnt this be easier and take less time than doing it on the actual screen because on the minimap the unit clumps are less spread out and therefor less mouse movement?
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On April 30 2011 04:08 SONE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 02:41 DreamRaider wrote:
someone report to blizzard for removal :/
This makes feedback way too easy All the responses like this are unbelievable. All players that aren't trying it for themselves, or reading the rest of the thread.
All you really have to do is watch the video.
Do you honestly think that should be kept in the game?
Like someone else said,
It takes the WHOA! out of micrWHOA!
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On April 30 2011 04:19 Vessel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 01:53 Naphal wrote:On April 30 2011 01:26 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:On April 30 2011 01:24 Naphal wrote:
i watched the video, obviously no ghost got feedbacked twice, because they died due to their 200/200 energy, but if there are lets say, two BCs on top of the bioball, would the minimapfeedbacks target the BCs multiple times?
in other words, is the feedback smart enough to pick the high energy targets if they so happen to be on the same pixel?
at least i dont have to listen to toss how BS and ezy emp is now ~~ you can use emp with the mini-map as well. troll very much? as long as a spell has no target verifier i doubt anyone would use it with the minimap, as it is this tiny detail that allows you to spam 200 times for gosufeedbacking... i seriously doubt even blizzard knew this was possible xD, if it is intentional, the pros better get cloak and MAD observersnipeskillz (yay more raven + thor / viking) but with emp, even if the toss is spreading his army couldnt you easily use the minimap to target emp each clump of unit pixles? wouldnt this be easier and take less time than doing it on the actual screen because on the minimap the unit clumps are less spread out and therefor less mouse movement?
With EMP, you want to aim for units with energy (unless you're trying to drop their shields). If you want to hit units with energy, then the minimap is going to be useless since you won't know where the units with energy are.
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On April 30 2011 04:20 Crazyeyes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 04:08 SONE wrote:On April 30 2011 02:41 DreamRaider wrote:
someone report to blizzard for removal :/
This makes feedback way too easy All the responses like this are unbelievable. All players that aren't trying it for themselves, or reading the rest of the thread. All you really have to do is watch the video. Do you honestly think that should be kept in the game? Like someone else said, It takes the WHOA! out of micrWHOA!
Yes I have watched the video. Let me know when we are playing games on a map that is smaller than steppes of war.
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On April 30 2011 04:22 SONE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 04:20 Crazyeyes wrote:On April 30 2011 04:08 SONE wrote:On April 30 2011 02:41 DreamRaider wrote:
someone report to blizzard for removal :/
This makes feedback way too easy All the responses like this are unbelievable. All players that aren't trying it for themselves, or reading the rest of the thread. All you really have to do is watch the video. Do you honestly think that should be kept in the game? Like someone else said, It takes the WHOA! out of micrWHOA! Yes I have watched the video. Let me know when we are playing games on a map that is smaller than steppes of war.
Well, would that not make it easier?
The way I see it, if the map is bigger, then one pixel on the minimap covers that much more surface area on the real map. Whereas on a small map, moving one pixel over on the minimap might be moving one unit over, on a huge map you could be moving 3-6 units over.
I would think that minimap feedbacking is WAY easier than picking out ghosts in the middle of an army, especially if that army is actively engaging yours and all the units are scrambling around to try to get into a firing position.
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Wow I had no idea you could do that....wonder what else this works for.
Does this work for any of the ghost skills? Or just HT?
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Wait, I'm confused
If I click once, does that equal one feedback?
So if I spam click feedback, I could potentially get rid of all the ghosts?
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With the growth of the mass infestor strategies, this may be a viable counter? Still not easy to spam feedback on everything on screen, but at least now it may be possible...
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That video is quite shocking I think. Even if the map is super small in the video, on a big, you can just spam while moving your mouse on the little enemy blob. As soon as you see that your templars start moving (meaning they acquired a target), you just attack and micro your other units. I'm not sure yet if this is broken or not, I need to try it on a big map to see if with training it can be too easy or not.
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The main problem I see, is if you train and become quite proficient at this, you could take a part of micro out of a battle. That means less multitask needed, as you can do a big part of in battle micro before the battle.
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People calling for a "fix" really need to step back and think for a moment how intuitive a person like MC is to find out something this big. If it's possible for a queen to inject via minimap, and templars to feedback doing the same, not only will you deprive the Protoss but the Zerg as well.
Think twice before you make silly assumptions that it's in need of a "fix".
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im fine with a removal if it is the same for all unit abilities from all races
let see which race would cry about using minimap to use abilities most
+ Show Spoiler +it won't be the protoss 8D
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This is clearly bullshit. Feedback gains a huge advantage using this method because it is the only spell that targets a unit AND discriminates by whether or not the unit has a mana pool. If you think this method isn't far superior then you either haven't seen the MC vs Thorzain games or you're full of shit.
There's no way that any other targetable spell can be used effectively with this method because no other spell has the required discriminating factors. The most uncompetitive aspect of this method is that you don't actually have to know or see that there are ghosts in the bio ball to do this since you can spam away and if there aren't any no energy is lost on the templar.
On April 30 2011 05:58 zZygote wrote:
People calling for a "fix" really need to step back and think for a moment how intuitive a person like MC is to find out something this big. If it's possible for a queen to inject via minimap, and templars to feedback doing the same, not only will you deprive the Protoss but the Zerg as well.
Think twice before you make silly assumptions that it's in need of a "fix".
I don't think most people would care since minimap injecting is probably one of the shittier methods of doing it
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EPT
