EPTYou have to build 2 structures (spine/spore) to defend DTs unlike T who can use turrets given that Terran built a PF
Terran must build a PF and turrets. You must build both spines and spores. I see no problem.
[D] Zerg Detection - Page 4
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Techno
1900 Posts
Terran must build a PF and turrets. You must build both spines and spores. I see no problem. | ||
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Ponyo
United States1231 Posts
Zerg is supposed to be played with massive amount of drones to lose, therefore justifying the loss of overlords and even expensive Overseers. | ||
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Goliathsorrow
Italy317 Posts
On April 27 2011 02:22 Techno wrote: Terran must build a PF and turrets. You must build both spines and spores. I see no problem. Please don't derail the thread, your comparison is flawed on every side given that if the p brings like 4-5 dts the 2 structures of the zerg will fall immediately while your pf can't really go down and scans cannot be targeted by blink stalkers. I think a buff (not a solution) would be changing the type of armor of the Overseer to nothing like the Queen and the Archon, making it still good vs Nixs but also less weaker against blink stalkers. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
You claim that zerg detection is weak, but you must understand that it's not something we have to dedicate to getting. On April 27 2011 02:30 Ponyo wrote: As a zerg player, it just feels natural to be getting upgrades/spore at each base, by the 7 minute mark or later depending on whether they went quick expo or not. But seeing as how you strayed this toward a ZvP discussion. Yea DTs seem pretty powerful, but it should never really catch you off guard. Zerg is supposed to be played with massive amount of drones to lose, therefore justifying the loss of overlords and even expensive Overseers. I don't know what you mean by "drones to lose." We can rebuild them easily, but that's not the same thing. Our units are generally considered not nearly as cost effective. Mass expanding is for the gas, so I completely disagree with that justification. It makes absolutely no sense. | ||
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vojnik
Macedonia923 Posts
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DivineSC
United States128 Posts
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OnFire
324 Posts
On April 26 2011 21:06 Jermstuddog wrote: This is one of the least talked-about aspects of Zergs massive loss of utility from BW to SC2. Both DTs and cloaked Wraiths saw most use against Zerg, who had overwhelming amounts of detection due to overlords. Now Banshees are about 100x more useful than Wraiths and DTs are slightly less useful than before, but overlords lost their detection and now require a massive gas dump for the same thing. Whenever people figure out how to consistantly abuse Zergs lack of detection, I think Zerg players are in for a world of hurt. In what way are DTs less useful then before? You can warp them in anywhere, if you have a warp prism/hidden pylon, and Zerg's detection is complete garbage in SC2... I have lost so many games to late game DT's (20 min or later) where he just warps in a couple of dt's and snipes all my hatcheries... | ||
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FilmNoir
United States44 Posts
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
You can also get creative and surround dt's with banelings and hit x. I think it's x anyway, that's manual explode. If they blink into your army to kill your overseer, you retreat and run away, and then dump 500 gas into more overseers. I'll admit it's a nice little opening, but it doesn't have a lot of staying power... Keep in mind every DT you kill costs as much as your overseer. And once detection is out dt's are usually the first thing to go, since they're melee. Zerg needs to be carting around 2 overseers in pvz anyway otherwise you'll pull an idra and get boned by hallucinations. That's happened to me several times. | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
And late game, please just get a Spore + Spine at each base and you'll be fine vs DTs. Optionally more Spines but at least you buy enough time to get over there. | ||
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Bluerain
United States348 Posts
i agree Z detection is def a problem. the only good thing is that currently lots of Ps are going phoenix so getting a blind spore isnt that bad. ur right though, it becomes really messy during late game w multiple bases where u need mass spines/spore at every single expansion. its funny how much easier T can deal with DTs. | ||
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
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AquaBadger
United States16 Posts
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
On April 26 2011 20:57 Poststrata wrote: I disagree. Having Detection all over the place by means of Overlords would make the fight for detection trivial. I think the reason Blizzard removed detection to begin with was to keep the games interesting and require more skill. I do agree that overseers are easy targets, but that can be used as a trap for blink stalkers. Fungal + smart unit control (ie: running the overseer away xD) can lead to cool scenarios. It's interesting, because in SC1, even having ovies detect still allowed for DT harass because maps were so big. Early in SC2, maps were so small that ovie detection would have owned any DT play. Now maps are getting bigger and bigger. Thats not a HUGE problem for DT's (still a problem), but it makes it REALLY tough for me to play against Kiwikaki's style PvZ. The late game mothership, mass stalker allows toss to blink and snipe overseers. It doesn't matter how many stalkers are killed while the overseers are going down, because the moment they are gone, zerg has no detection, and any toss units left are now invincible. It would be nice if we had some other option for detection. Also sniping a well guarded and microed mothership is SO HARD unless you vastly over compensate with corruptors. | ||
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
currently detection is not a huge problem for zerg gameplay perhaps but it contributes to the general trend that zergs are very vulnerable to unexpected strats | ||
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Binabik
Germany686 Posts
It's strange how many people on TL try to buff+nerf every single difference until every race is the same. The interesting thing about starcraft 2 that there are different races in an even fight. | ||
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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
Terrans give up Mules and/or Supply Drop (yes, they're usable >.<), which is a huge opportunity cost in itself. It's about as available (actually, even moreso, due to the lack of a gas requirement) than Overseers, since Lairs and Orbital Commands are somewhat synonymous. Terran does have Ravens, but it's about as useful as an Overseer in terms of detection (actually, it's slower), although it does provide support at a greater level than Contaminate does. Terran doesn't get a static defense that can handle cloaked ground units other than PFs, so they actually need units to defend against things like DTs and sneaky Infestors and the like. EMP is there, too, to handle Banshees, but getting Ghosts in TvT is...not as optimal. Terrans have the most accessible detection, but at the same time, their only real cloak-harassment is the Banshee, which is shut down by a single Cannon/Spore/Missile Turret (not to mention they also can't shoot up, so Observers, Ravens, and Overseers beat them). Zerg can get Overseers at Lair, which is pretty accessible unless you're going for a no-gas build. Unlike Observers (and Ravens), you CAN slam out multiple Overseers if you feel the need to, and you will (or rather, should) always have an Overlord around ready for emergency duty (as opposed to being hit by DTs while your Colossus is 80% done on your only Robo  ). Spore crawlers are basically just moving Missile Turrets, so nothing special there.Really, you sacrifice vitality for accessibility if you're a Zerg in terms of detection. Yes, losing an Overseer is pretty bad because you lose supply, but that's akin to losing an Observer at a critical moment (i.e. you absolutely need one) while your Robo is halfway done building something else. It's not all about cost. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Clamev
Germany498 Posts
if you burrow banelings against a protoss then your intelligence is questionable. I take offense to this statement! | ||
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