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Patch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 92

Forum Index > SC2 General
4401 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 90 91 92 93 94 221 Next
Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully.
Popsiclestik
Profile Joined August 2010
United States45 Posts
April 26 2011 18:59 GMT
#1821
I believe of the pylon change was for the best. If you think of what the 40 seconds to warpgate is meant to do, similar with the pylon, it has to be closer to the ramp/cliff, thus making it within range of enemy units on the high ground. Great change. ~Todays my birthday also wooh :D~ Like Blizzards gift to me
CHOdan
Profile Joined April 2011
United States9 Posts
April 26 2011 18:59 GMT
#1822
it seems like each patch has contained a nerf for protoss and a buff for zerg... i blame idra and his complaining...but i see where they are coming from because pvp was too generic... i just think they went about it completely wrong... they should have made wg tech 2 upgrades instead of just 1... the first is normal wg where u can warp on low ground and the second will allow u to warp on high ground...this can still allow 4gates to occur, but it wont be to the point where they are warping in on your ramp and in your base
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
April 26 2011 19:01 GMT
#1823
On April 27 2011 03:58 DrunkApple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 03:38 plated.rawr wrote:
I like these changes. Especially,

- Pylon range reduction, as it reduces the potency of across-gap proxy pylon warpins somewhat;
- Warpin time increase and regular production decrease, as it removes the early game warpin facerape while at the same time giving more chance for "honest" frontal attacks early on;
- Ghost gas change, as it allows for ghosts in more low gas builds, something that fits me, personally, very well

The rest of the changes are overall good. Nice patch!

Edit: Oh, and also - Bunkers were never "free", even with the 100% reclaim cost. 100 minerals spent, even temporarily, delays tech and macro. What you pay for with a bunker is time, which arguably is the most important resource in SC2. The difference between getting a rush out at time X or time X+30 is huge, and building bunkers because they're "free" will simply rape your timings.

That being said, I don't mind them yielding 75% rather than 100%. It's a pretty insignificant change.

free
/frē/
Verb: Make free, in particular.
Adverb: Without cost or payment: "ladies were admitted free".

100% refund --> free
75% refund --> not free
True that building bunkers delay tech, but that is called "Opportunity Cost", building bunker instead of teching up
It's like you are saying scanning costs mineral


i was going to link you the dictionary entry for stupid but im not sure its worth the effort
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
April 26 2011 19:02 GMT
#1824
On April 27 2011 03:53 Jayrod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 03:15 j3i wrote:
I was expecting a way for zerg to deal with forcefields, but I still like these changes. Maybe next time they'll make spine crawlers "massive."

Burrow, ultras, air units, keeping sentry energy low through applying pressure, engaging in more open areas. There I gave you 5+ ways and I didnt even have to patch the game


god i hate when people say ultras to deal with ff's,
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
theSkareqro
Profile Joined June 2010
Singapore102 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 19:03:58
April 26 2011 19:03 GMT
#1825
On April 27 2011 03:51 FabledIntegral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 03:08 zhouzhou wrote:
Warp gate cooldowns should be higher than gateway build times, if not on par with them. The ability to warp them in anywhere + reduced cool downs makes gateways completely pointless. Gateways might as well just instantly turn into warp gates or build AS a warpgate. It's completely pointless to use gateways after warp gate has been researched.

Or better yet, keep the build times the same for gateways. Add a benefit to warpgate research. Not only does it reduce the build time in gateways by 10 seconds, it gives you the ability to warp them in anywhere at the longer cool down.
Damn, this idea is pretty good...


This is intentional - Blizzard has stated they never really wanted to have gateways in the game, only warpgates, but warpgates were too powerful early game. After you change to a warpgate, Blizzard doesn't want you using gateways anymore.


There is a "Revert to Gateways" for a reason issit not?
I guess not.. They should just delete it like what they did to Ultralisk with the headbutt animation?
lol
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 19:05:14
April 26 2011 19:03 GMT
#1826
On April 27 2011 03:59 dave333 wrote:
Where did they say they didn't want gateways? Having a diff between gates and warpgates is way cooler

Dunno, they've mentioned it a bunch. They started out in alpha with just warpgates, but obviously they realised you can do disgusting cheeses with that, so they needed a way to slow down warp tech. And thus the warpgate tech was born. Same deal with conc shells. These 50/50 techs are in the game solely so Blizzard can fiddle with the timings to make sure they aren't overpowering early game.

The likely reason they don't want it to be a choice is that it would be hellish to balance two different sets of unit production timings. (they don't balance them now, one is just straight up worse)

Speaking of alpha I want my dark pylons back :D
no.Stats
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden99 Posts
April 26 2011 19:06 GMT
#1827
doesnt change anything about the ridiculous overpowered 2 base mass gateway push with 1947325872858230 forcefields
Rashia
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden68 Posts
April 26 2011 19:10 GMT
#1828
These changes seem to be really nice.. tho I'm affraid that 2 gate proxy rushes will be back
CrUnCh559
Profile Joined March 2011
United States22 Posts
April 26 2011 19:14 GMT
#1829
thats kinda lame how only spore crawlers get this buff, and not spines :/. I will gladly take the change though .
Ryrmidon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada371 Posts
April 26 2011 19:15 GMT
#1830
I think they should keep these changes. Zerg can't QQ about 4wg anymore and banshee and void ray strats will be less effective. gateways cheese is more viable but that is good cause 6 pool beat proxy gateways too hard. The ghost buff is nice cause I always thought nukes should be used more.

I am a zerg by the way and though there is a bunch of other things I complain about like protoss lategame I think this is a massive step into the right direct. Without the extremely powerful early gate pressure caused by bunker rushes or fast warpgating zerg is free to take more risks and macro up more with will mean they will hit 200/200 must faster than the protoss. Use this advantage correctly and you will prob see a 50:50 win ratio
"He can't beat me in a real game" IdrA
Matthias Meys
Profile Joined April 2011
13 Posts
April 26 2011 19:16 GMT
#1831
The patch is cool with me, on first impression at least. I'd like to see Salvage cancel when the bunkers are under attack though, instead of 75% money back... I kind of like the thought of free defensive bunkers, whereas a failed bunker rush would cost the Terran 100 minerals...

Oh well, what do I know ^^.
XXXSmOke
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States1333 Posts
April 26 2011 19:19 GMT
#1832
On April 27 2011 03:59 CHOdan wrote:
it seems like each patch has contained a nerf for protoss and a buff for zerg... i blame idra and his complaining...but i see where they are coming from because pvp was too generic... i just think they went about it completely wrong... they should have made wg tech 2 upgrades instead of just 1... the first is normal wg where u can warp on low ground and the second will allow u to warp on high ground...this can still allow 4gates to occur, but it wont be to the point where they are warping in on your ramp and in your base


And then by the time you get to use the upgrade the chance to cheese with the pylon is gone.

Theres been so many ideas in this thread like warp in the nexus only, darker rings to the pylon for warp in, and multiple WG upgrades. All of these would kill the race man, way to complex for a small gain.

Blizz's approach is smart just delay the time so the power of WG's comes a bit later just like T with stim. WG's is a good interesting design for the game, getting too crazy and wierd with upgrades and big restrictions is just to much. You want players to be able to do crazy things with WGs like cliffing and proxy and other stuff, but what you dont want is the power of all inning that protss has had since release. Espcially Escpcially now that the maps are largely differant and the art of the protoss all in negates the distance these maps provide.

Also, whats with the two gate thoughts in this thread? Ive read like 30 pages of this thread and theres like 4 or 5 mentions of two gate on every page. What people arent realizing is that the maps are completely differant... What maps do you expect to proxy me on? Tal Darim? Shattered? Back Gulch?. THe only map you could pull it off on would be on Xel, but you also have to realize now that with reduced pylon range you cant do the pylon on low/gateway on high ground. I honestly dont understand the hype about it. Not to mention with roach range and builds like spanishwas this would be likely to be easily countered.
Emperor? Boxer disapproves. He's building bunkers at your mom's house even as you're reading this.
plated.rawr
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Norway1676 Posts
April 26 2011 19:20 GMT
#1833
On April 27 2011 03:58 DrunkApple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 03:38 plated.rawr wrote:
I like these changes. Especially,

- Pylon range reduction, as it reduces the potency of across-gap proxy pylon warpins somewhat;
- Warpin time increase and regular production decrease, as it removes the early game warpin facerape while at the same time giving more chance for "honest" frontal attacks early on;
- Ghost gas change, as it allows for ghosts in more low gas builds, something that fits me, personally, very well

The rest of the changes are overall good. Nice patch!

Edit: Oh, and also - Bunkers were never "free", even with the 100% reclaim cost. 100 minerals spent, even temporarily, delays tech and macro. What you pay for with a bunker is time, which arguably is the most important resource in SC2. The difference between getting a rush out at time X or time X+30 is huge, and building bunkers because they're "free" will simply rape your timings.

That being said, I don't mind them yielding 75% rather than 100%. It's a pretty insignificant change.

free
/frē/
Verb: Make free, in particular.
Adverb: Without cost or payment: "ladies were admitted free".

100% refund --> free
75% refund --> not free
True that building bunkers delay tech, but that is called "Opportunity Cost", building bunker instead of teching up
It's like you are saying scanning costs mineral

in·fla·tion
   [in-fley-shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
Economics . a persistent, substantial rise in the general level of prices related to an increase in the volume of money and resulting in the loss of value of currency ( opposed to deflation).
2.
the act of inflating.
3.
the state of being inflated.

1.
Economics . a persistent, substantial rise in the general level of prices related to an increase in the volume of money and resulting in the loss of value of currency ( opposed to deflation).

and resulting in the loss of value of currency

loss of value of currency

Time = inflation = minerals less worth per unit = price payed.
Savior broke my heart ;_; || twitch.tv/onnings
Taryssa
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1628 Posts
April 26 2011 19:21 GMT
#1834
Archon change is really nice, might see them used a lot more in TvP since they can't be negated by marauder slow micro.
Beef Noodles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States937 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 19:22:12
April 26 2011 19:21 GMT
#1835
On April 27 2011 04:01 turdburgler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 03:58 DrunkApple wrote:
On April 27 2011 03:38 plated.rawr wrote:
I like these changes. Especially,

- Pylon range reduction, as it reduces the potency of across-gap proxy pylon warpins somewhat;
- Warpin time increase and regular production decrease, as it removes the early game warpin facerape while at the same time giving more chance for "honest" frontal attacks early on;
- Ghost gas change, as it allows for ghosts in more low gas builds, something that fits me, personally, very well

The rest of the changes are overall good. Nice patch!

Edit: Oh, and also - Bunkers were never "free", even with the 100% reclaim cost. 100 minerals spent, even temporarily, delays tech and macro. What you pay for with a bunker is time, which arguably is the most important resource in SC2. The difference between getting a rush out at time X or time X+30 is huge, and building bunkers because they're "free" will simply rape your timings.

That being said, I don't mind them yielding 75% rather than 100%. It's a pretty insignificant change.

free
/frē/
Verb: Make free, in particular.
Adverb: Without cost or payment: "ladies were admitted free".
100% refund --> free
75% refund --> not free
True that building bunkers delay tech, but that is called "Opportunity Cost", building bunker instead of teching up
It's like you are saying scanning costs mineral


i was going to link you the dictionary entry for stupid but im not sure its worth the effort

manner up!
Delta9-THC
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany13 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 19:26:23
April 26 2011 19:24 GMT
#1836
I think Blizz wanted to nerf the 4gate a bit, because it's the most used BO atm... but with this changes it'll be all about proxy gating...
But this guy got a great idea -> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2416196872

I like the Bunker and Ghost changes tho, but i think it should be 50% instead of 75%.

The Spore Crawler buff is simply awesome, because Z gets his first anti-air relatively late and when the enemy got atleast a bit micro, when he is fast teching for air, then the Z is in a shitload of trouble, because you can outmaneuver the spores. (also it's great about invisible units when you're low on gas :>)
A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. - Albert Einstein HOLY CHECK!
LeatherGracket
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden52 Posts
April 26 2011 19:25 GMT
#1837
I think Blizzard just killed Pheonix in PvZ.
no.Stats
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden99 Posts
April 26 2011 19:27 GMT
#1838
sure the phoenix was all about the zerg having to move spores around
Striding Strider
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom787 Posts
April 26 2011 19:28 GMT
#1839
On April 27 2011 03:59 dave333 wrote:
Where did they say they didn't want gateways? Having a diff between gates and warpgates is way cooler


Agreed.
I have a beard. I'm unprofessional.
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
April 26 2011 19:28 GMT
#1840
On April 27 2011 04:02 KimJongChill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 03:53 Jayrod wrote:
On April 27 2011 03:15 j3i wrote:
I was expecting a way for zerg to deal with forcefields, but I still like these changes. Maybe next time they'll make spine crawlers "massive."

Burrow, ultras, air units, keeping sentry energy low through applying pressure, engaging in more open areas. There I gave you 5+ ways and I didnt even have to patch the game


god i hate when people say ultras to deal with ff's,

How are ultras not one of the many ways I listed to deal with forcefields? Or are you another one of those zergs that doesn't care about balance or appreciate the fact that without forcefields Protoss would never be able to compete.
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