EPT
Patch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 152
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
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sniverty
United States72 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On May 04 2011 15:08 sniverty wrote: Cheaper ghosts = incentive to EMP your own Thors? Thors don't have energy...Strike Cannons was changed to a cooldown months ago. | ||
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MyNameIsAlex
Greece827 Posts
On May 04 2011 15:09 Ribbon wrote: Thors don't have energy...Strike Cannons was changed to a cooldown months ago. read the new PTR changes | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
Astute readers may notice that this scenario can apply to either ZvP or PvT. So if it's fine for Zerg to figure out how to beat void ray/collosus, why is it that the Protoss players can't just figure out how to beat thors? Allin him. Don't let him build up the deathball. Sacrifice void rays to keep the thor count down. Use something other than gateway/collosus. Use warp prisms moar. Archons are super imba against Terran now, they solve everything. Use carriers d00d. What this change does is that it creates an exploitable weakness in the Thor that didn't exist before. A weakness that can only be exploited by going HTs. It also slows down Thor-based builds in general, but that's not the main point. By making it an energy-based ability, HTs can Feedback them. This encourages non-Deathball play from the Protoss. It encourages them to avoid Colossi and go for HTs instead. This increases the number of viable strategies a Protoss can use. I don't see the problem. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On May 04 2011 15:12 nihlon wrote: What other units have a speed of 2.25? Just so I know what to expect. zealot, sentry, marine, marauder, immortal just to name some | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On May 04 2011 15:12 nihlon wrote: What other units have a speed of 2.25? Just so I know what to expect. Zealot, Marine, Marauder, Colossus, Roach(Slow), Hydra (Off Creep),Immortal. Siege Tank | ||
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Flummie
Netherlands417 Posts
 About the other changes: looking good | ||
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
now I can drop archons behind the mineral lines of a terran and be safely out of planetary fortress range. | ||
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
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Icemind
Germany570 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:19 Ezekyle wrote: So basically, the situation is this: - race A figures out an awesome lategame deathball that cannot be beaten by race B - race A uses this in a couple of games and every race B player flips the fuck out - race B players say there's absolutely no counter to the deathball and that it needs to be nerfed into the ground, they go into great detail about how none of the supposed counters will ever work - race A players say that the balance is fine and a solution will be figured out Astute readers may notice that this scenario can apply to either ZvP or PvT. So if it's fine for Zerg to figure out how to beat void ray/collosus, why is it that the Protoss players can't just figure out how to beat thors? Allin him. Don't let him build up the deathball. Sacrifice void rays to keep the thor count down. Use something other than gateway/collosus. Use warp prisms moar. Archons are super imba against Terran now, they solve everything. Use carriers d00d. That's why the thor nerf is retarded. Because Blizzard is, on one hand, allowing the game to grow and develop rather than just nerf-hammering something once players of race B declare it imbalanced, while on the other hand they instantly remove the TvP deathball before Protoss players have had any chance to learn how to counter it. Basically, Protoss players are telling Zergs to learn how to deal with the Protoss deathball, so they have no right to complain about the Terran deathball when they've only had about two days to try to figure out counters to it, and Blizzard has absolutely no reason to remove a strategy before anyone's had a chance to figure it out. This sums it up nicely. I mean i would be fine with the Thor (back-)change if it had come after 3 month or so of protoss players trying to deal with those and completely failing. But as it stands no one really has given them time to do so and this (re-)change is just waaay premature | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
thor nerf was out of no where but appreciate nonetheless hehe so glad they reverted back the zlot build time, fuckin proxy 2 gate would have dominated pvp | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
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Ezekyle
Australia607 Posts
On May 04 2011 15:08 darmousseh wrote: Zerg got a huge infestor buff in order to deal with the death ball. Protoss lost their answer to thors when they lost their energy bar. There are multiple ways to deal with the protoss death ball (roach corrupter, ling baneling hydra, and now ling infestor). The only known way to deal with thors was to either have more immortals than they have thors (usually not possible) or make a lot of void rays in advance (also not likely). This opens up again the viability of going templar against terran and being able to beat terran mech (thor, hellion, banshee). Thors will still be insanely powerful after this because most likely terran will learn to keep their energy low on their thors in order to make sure feedback isn't too powerful. Overall a good change for the pvt matchup. Protoss lost their answer to thors? How do you know that? How much time have you and every other Protoss spent trying to counter thor deathballs? A lot less time than Zergs have spent trying to figure out Protoss deathballs, that's for sure. You haven't tried everything yet, and if you have you haven't tried anything nearly enough times to reach any conclusions. Zergs have been trying to counter Protoss deathballs far longer and there still hasn't been any answer that's consistently working at the highest levels of play (I don't care what player X did to his mid masters opponents who had never seen his strategy before). Listen to Imbalanced episode 3. You know what IdrA and Artosis say? That there is no way for Zerg to beat Protoss deathballs, and that the only known counters are impractical, ie, EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT THORS. How is that even remotely different to what's happening right now? And yes, Zergs got an infestor buff. After a freaking long time, ie, long enough to decide that there might actually be a balance issue. And it still isn't that big of a deal, if you watch the top Zergs, like our good friend IdrA, they're not really using them to defeat Protoss players, so his recent successes have nothing to do with patches. They happened because he, and other Zergs, decided that QQing wasn't going to work and did something about it. You simply have not had enough time to say that thor deathballs are overpowered. On May 04 2011 15:13 NicolBolas wrote: What this change does is that it creates an exploitable weakness in the Thor that didn't exist before. A weakness that can only be exploited by going HTs. It also slows down Thor-based builds in general, but that's not the main point. By making it an energy-based ability, HTs can Feedback them. This encourages non-Deathball play from the Protoss. It encourages them to avoid Colossi and go for HTs instead. This increases the number of viable strategies a Protoss can use. I don't see the problem. What this change does is attempt to shut down a new strategy with a patch before it can be shut down by just playing better, and it takes down a bunch of other thor-related strategies as well. And you know what else encourages non-deathball play from Protoss? Giving Terran something that can kill a Protoss deathball head-on. Like thors. Which forces Protoss to use something other than a deathball to stop the thors. Which forces Terran to use something other than thors to stop whatever it was that Protoss players invented to stop thors. Which results in no one using deathballs, and doesn't require Blizzard to directly intervene, thus reducing the strategic depth of the game and ruining a bunch of other strategies. | ||
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WarpMePlz
United Kingdom76 Posts
On May 04 2011 15:08 darmousseh wrote: Zerg got a huge infestor buff in order to deal with the death ball. Protoss lost their answer to thors when they lost their energy bar. There are multiple ways to deal with the protoss death ball (roach corrupter, ling baneling hydra, and now ling infestor). The only known way to deal with thors was to either have more immortals than they have thors (usually not possible) or make a lot of void rays in advance (also not likely). This opens up again the viability of going templar against terran and being able to beat terran mech (thor, hellion, banshee). Thors will still be insanely powerful after this because most likely terran will learn to keep their energy low on their thors in order to make sure feedback isn't too powerful. Overall a good change for the pvt matchup. I see blizzard's logic now. They made ghosts cheaper so that the cost of having to EMP my own thors is cheaper! Can't deny that logic... oh wait Btw. Having more immortals than thors shouldn't be difficult seen as they are cheaper, don't require a robotics bay plus you can chrono boost to catch up if needed. I can only imagine how good mass immortal/chargelot is against a meching terran. Sadly, protoss cry imba when they can't just sit on 3 base making the most easy-to-micro unkillable death ball. | ||
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SupItsG
United States59 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On May 04 2011 15:27 SupItsG wrote: can't wait to feedback some thors can't wiat to kill your army with thors before you can get HTs. | ||
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
Edit: fixed grammar etc. | ||
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Vipsanius
Netherlands708 Posts
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Vardant
Czech Republic620 Posts
On May 04 2011 15:21 Icemind wrote: This sums it up nicely. I mean i would be fine with the Thor (back-)change if it had come after 3 month or so of protoss players trying to deal with those and completely failing. But as it stands no one really has given them time to do so and this (re-)change is just waaay premature Just because you haven't seen games where Protoss couldn't handle Thors, that doesn't mean they don't exist. I for one am glad, they changed it back, because taking away their energy wasn't right in the first place. Immortals were easily countered by the Strike Cannon and other strategies aren't exactly easy to pull of or viable at all. | ||
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