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Patch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 103

Forum Index > SC2 General
4401 CommentsPost a Reply
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
April 26 2011 23:44 GMT
#2041
I don't understand what was wrong with the old spine crawler time of 6. Now spore crawler is 6 and spine is 12??? So stupid...

I mean, I'm not complaining about the spore crawler root time reduction, but why can't they just make spines that too.
:)
hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
April 26 2011 23:44 GMT
#2042
On April 27 2011 08:33 Honeybadger wrote:
Zealot un-nerf won't be a big deal. The meta has changed to where it's more easily defendable, and maps are getting bigger and more smartly designed. As a terran, all I have to do is a simple wall-off again (Which wasn't -really- a big risk anyways, and it's even less so now that a 4gate is 40 seconds slower) and zergs just need to do some spanishiwa style "TRY BUILD A SPINE CRAWLER OR TWO" openers.


Terrans explaining why 2-gate Zealot pressure won't be a problem for Zerg.
Brilliant!
SilverPotato
Profile Joined July 2010
United States560 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 23:46:29
April 26 2011 23:46 GMT
#2043
Bunkers T.T
"The ability to learn faster than your competitors may be the only sustainable competitive advantage." ~Arie de Geus
polysciguy
Profile Joined August 2010
United States488 Posts
April 26 2011 23:46 GMT
#2044
On April 27 2011 08:44 hugman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 08:33 Honeybadger wrote:
Zealot un-nerf won't be a big deal. The meta has changed to where it's more easily defendable, and maps are getting bigger and more smartly designed. As a terran, all I have to do is a simple wall-off again (Which wasn't -really- a big risk anyways, and it's even less so now that a 4gate is 40 seconds slower) and zergs just need to do some spanishiwa style "TRY BUILD A SPINE CRAWLER OR TWO" openers.


Terrans explaining why 2-gate Zealot pressure won't be a problem for Zerg.
Brilliant!

you get to react the same way toss does, build static defenses and units1, 2 spines.....and don't FE
glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever---napoleon
Rorschach
Profile Joined May 2010
United States623 Posts
April 26 2011 23:46 GMT
#2045
On April 27 2011 08:02 Seide wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 07:55 Rorschach wrote:
For anyone wanting the visual difference in pylon size here are too pics comparing PTR to current radius:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


and

[image loading]


or links for the full size images:

http://i.imgur.com/ffgOd.jpg[
and
http://i.imgur.com/XMyzQ.jpg

Those pylons are
a. Taken at different resolutions
b. Are places at different spots on the map

pretty misleading images to be honest. Almost worthless unless I stare at them. Thanks for trying though, I'll have to look at it in person.


Wasn't trying to be misleading, I had a hard time placing the pylon in the same location each time. They were taken with screen save so the resolution should be identical....

Its a noticeable difference in game (e.g. A real pain in the ass to wall of on large maps (taldarem alter) while at the same time trying to keep you pylons out of harms way. Late games your pylon spread will need to be much better to make it easier to warp things in...

I think its a 25% reduction in size so its significant enough to notice. Hope this change doesn't make it through as the WG nerf and GW unit build time buff should be more than enough for the 4gate problem...

So far all my PVP's have been 3 gate robo "war of the worlds" or 3 gate blink games... all one base play and if you expand you die.....
En Taro Adun, Executor!
CrackAGrack
Profile Joined April 2011
11 Posts
April 26 2011 23:48 GMT
#2046
I liked unit flowers. Why do Blizzard crush nice flowers? That's just evil. But seriously, having overlords spreading out on their own is kinda annoying, especially against pheonix harrass - Having them all stacked in the middle of your AA was nicer. Speaking of AA, subtle but smart change for the spore crawler, another step towards shutting down the annoying little shits and their pheonix.
DMKraft
Profile Joined December 2010
476 Posts
April 26 2011 23:49 GMT
#2047
So Pylons used to power an area 133% times what they do now and bunkers have increased in net cost by an INFINITE %! The insanity! Or you can look at it as a change in radius of 1 unit and 25 less minerals on salvage. I prefer my fist way.
Amper
Profile Joined April 2011
2 Posts
April 26 2011 23:50 GMT
#2048
How does archons changed to massive change anything?
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
April 26 2011 23:50 GMT
#2049
On April 27 2011 08:40 KhAlleB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 07:47 JustAGame wrote:
On April 27 2011 07:37 KhAlleB wrote:
hmmm, why every 1 thinking hallu will be later on? if you think about that, WG = GW in term of production, so why not getting hallu first since you wont miss a production circle since they are egal? so it will result a faster hallu instead of a slower hallu

Without WG you might have a hard time holding off 2 base roach all ins (with 3 gate expand) which will hit right when the expansion is done. I am not sure how much you profit from that early hallucination (remember scouting with hallu costs 100 energy, giving away all your forcefields might be dangerous early on).

i dont understand how it will be hard to deal teh roach all in with GW instead of WG, they have teh same production rate. you cant have more unit with WG

They don't and you can.
I'll call Nada.
Darpa
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada4413 Posts
April 26 2011 23:51 GMT
#2050
On April 27 2011 08:44 hugman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 08:33 Honeybadger wrote:
Zealot un-nerf won't be a big deal. The meta has changed to where it's more easily defendable, and maps are getting bigger and more smartly designed. As a terran, all I have to do is a simple wall-off again (Which wasn't -really- a big risk anyways, and it's even less so now that a 4gate is 40 seconds slower) and zergs just need to do some spanishiwa style "TRY BUILD A SPINE CRAWLER OR TWO" openers.


Terrans explaining why 2-gate Zealot pressure won't be a problem for Zerg.
Brilliant!


He is a little more colorful than I would put it, but he is right. Zergs are just greedy as hell. Terran needs to put up at least 1 bunker (at a minimum, generally 2 on most maps) to hold of a FE against a 4 gate, and they have to build the units to fill them + pull scvs to repair. That is a hell of a lot more cost than 2 spine crawlers, which are pretty cost effective against t1 units and dont eat up supply or extra money.

That said, I also dont understand the salvage heartbreak, it really makes no difference. most terrans wont put down more than 2-5 bunkers over the course of an entire game. But for the most part I only build 2-3 bunkers in the early game. which means I'm nerfed 75 Minerals when i salvage them 2 minutes later? That really does not bother me.

Even bunker rushes you generally dont put down more than 2-3 bunkers and in the end you rarely got a chance to salvage them unless you abandoned them before the push.
"losers always whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
SoBeDragon
Profile Joined October 2010
United States192 Posts
April 26 2011 23:52 GMT
#2051
Bored at work, just wanted to add my $0.02.

Balance

PROTOSS

Archons are now a massive unit. Finally

Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5. I see this making the pylon more vulnerable when trying to warp in on top of a ramp. It'll now be closer, so it should be easier to target. That was my first instinct.

Cybernetics Core

Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180. Good. I got reminded of the stim nerf when I read this. This will help zerg a lot with some of that 4 gate pressure

Gateway

Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37.

Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37.

Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.

Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged.
I think this is blizzard's way of combating 4 gate in PvP. Make the pylon more vulnerable, and make it so if you're being 4 gated, you can defend it by warping your gateways back. I think that's a good idea, although I think we're going to see more proxy gates with these changes. This is going to teach people to scout a lot more then they do.

TERRAN

Ghost

Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. This seems more of a buff then a nerf. I always thought caster units were supposed to be high on gas, and low on minerals. Don't see why they needed to help ghosts. They already come with EMP...why this?

Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%. Good. I always wondered why Terrans were able to build bunkers for free. Add this to the laundry list of terran nerfs!


ZERG

Spore Crawler

Root time decreased from 12 to 6. /drool. I'm not the best zerg in the world, but I can't tell you how many times I've had to move my spores to help against pheonix/VR & banshee early harass. I'm glad to see zerg get yet another buff, and one that helps against air.


Bug Fixes

Fixed a bug where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location. Is there a reason why you would want to EMP the same location twice? Seems like a waste. I'm looking at this as kind of a nerf...just in a weird way.

Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other. My first thought was that this was yet another nerf to terran. As zerg, we had to magic box mutas over thors to minimize damage. Now the game is doing it for us? Sounds good.

I like this patch overall. It's good to see that Blizzard wants PvP to evolve beyond the 4 gate, and I like that zerg is getting buffs-a-plenty. There are also some logical things that they addressed here, like bunkers being free, and archons not being massive. This is a step in the right direction and I can't wait to see how the game will change with this. A+ from me =)
If at first you don't succeed, redefine the parameters for success.
DashedHopes
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada414 Posts
April 26 2011 23:52 GMT
#2052
OMG i can't wait till this patch is applied HELLO 2GATE PROXY >
hitman133
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1425 Posts
April 26 2011 23:52 GMT
#2053
On April 27 2011 08:44 synapse wrote:
I don't understand what was wrong with the old spine crawler time of 6. Now spore crawler is 6 and spine is 12??? So stupid...

I mean, I'm not complaining about the spore crawler root time reduction, but why can't they just make spines that too.

Just fucking happy that you can still move it when Terran and Protoss can't. And it help you to root faster again banshee and VRs, what the fuck else do you want ? You want all the love in the world ?
TheResidentEvil
Profile Joined September 2010
United States991 Posts
April 26 2011 23:52 GMT
#2054
On April 27 2011 08:00 lyrlian wrote:
THe difference diffinitely is noticeable. I think this is a great change to discourage 4 gating in pvp! but how does this affect walling off? Pictures please!


I already posted this

here is xelnaga wall in on PTR. no problems

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/933/screenshot2011042616145.jpg

here is wall in on shattered
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4526/screenshot2011042616201.jpg

here is the change to warp in

http://img822.imageshack.us/f/screenshot2011042616225.jpg

All those stalkers can hit that pylon. you can have 5 hit the other one. Warp in as far away that only allows for a 3 Zealots to warp in..

http://img97.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2011042616224.jpg/

can be hit by 4 stalkers while its going up .

http://img688.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2011042616222.jpg

I dont like when toss gets changed either cuz I play toss but wall in against zerg should still be ok
Last edit: 2011-04-27 07:28:15
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
April 26 2011 23:54 GMT
#2055
Pretty good changes actually.

Archons were pathetic against marauders.

Bunkers being free was silly.

Blizz just killed the 4gate? :O

...But revived the 2gate.

Pylon power thing I don't really get, although I'm sure there's an obvious practical implication (I don't play Protoss)

Ghosts being more expensive is interesting, not sure if it was necessary, seems like a weird change.

Spore Crawler thing helps a lot vs Banshee/VR rushes, although I would love it if the Spine crawler was also changed, to help vs Bunker rushes! Can't have it all though
AeroX42
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada16 Posts
April 26 2011 23:54 GMT
#2056
Archons are massive!! So does this mean that archons can crush forcefields? curious how it will work out..
DetZero
Profile Joined April 2009
United States5 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-27 00:03:19
April 27 2011 00:02 GMT
#2057
I am worried about the power of 2 gate expand builds vs zerg. I can't remember, but the last time zealots had such a low build time did we have the 4 range roaches?
Darpa
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada4413 Posts
April 27 2011 00:04 GMT
#2058
On April 27 2011 09:02 DetZero wrote:
I am worried about the power of 2 gate expand builds vs zerg. I can't remember, but the last time zealots had such a low build time did we have the 4 range roaches?



No, Roach range is relatively recent I believe.


Archons are massive!! So does this mean that archons can crush forcefields? curious how it will work out..


yes they can, and arent affected by concussive shells
"losers always whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
ch33psh33p
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
7650 Posts
April 27 2011 00:05 GMT
#2059
On April 27 2011 08:54 AeroX42 wrote:
Archons are massive!! So does this mean that archons can crush forcefields? curious how it will work out..


What? They crush FF's like any other massive unit, no curiosity involved.
secret - never again
wideye
Profile Joined June 2010
United States209 Posts
April 27 2011 00:05 GMT
#2060
hey sorry if i missed it in the earlier posts. i checked but couldn't find when this patch goes live? it wasn't up when i was playing earlier today
slim pickens
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