EPTFemale ESL 1st place interview and Afterthoughts - Page 2
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gen.Sun
United States539 Posts
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On April 25 2011 20:09 annul wrote: i care because i share (presumably) the same desire as suna does (equality among the genders for gamers), but she goes about it in the worst possible way. embracing equality among genders helps ALL of us. it helps the community tremendously in just about every way. female cups hurt it. it says, basically, "you cannot win the normal tournament; we need to make a special one where only players of this lower caliber can enter." why? skill is skill. presence of a penis does not mean you get +100 APM. presence of a vagina does not mean you miss chrono timings or larva injects. why segment it? Why does people have leagues/tournaments that are country specific? Or any group specific for that matter? Why does that have to have a problem? No one here is claiming we should divide all tournaments into different genders. I just find it weird that people get so butt hurt over when people have a tournament that is gender specific while there are countless of other tournaments out there that separate people, be it by region, skill-level, community-based or whatever. By your standards all gold/platinum tournaments I've seen are bad. I'd venomly disagree on this as I've gotten a lot of fun out of those myself. Who are you to decide what is "good" or "bad" format? | ||
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EZPikachu
United States51 Posts
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Yeol
Korea (South)55 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
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dellesh1ruH
Denmark509 Posts
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On April 25 2011 20:04 annul wrote: you argue that "the reason they get attention is because we give them attention, so it's our fault." you infer that this is why people complain about the female cup. you are incorrect. YOU all divide the community across the gender line by running the "female cup." period. there is no fundamental difference in a male person's physiological make-up that determines whether they will be more skilled at this game than a female. if there is a cultural split, work on mending that. there is no split in the game itself. let people's skill shine, not their gender. Don't look at it so harsly.. there are tonnes of small tournaments for specific countries for instance. As long as theses kinds of tournaments don't get more attention than the GSL for instance, it's not bad for e-sports at all, and nothing's stopping the female players from joining a mixed tournament. I see your point though, but I guess there simply are so few female gamers that the few that there are need to be highlighted a little. Just my two cents. Pz. | ||
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Ventor
United States336 Posts
there is no fundamental difference in a male person's physiological make-up that determines whether they will be more skilled at this game than a female. if there is a cultural split, work on mending that. there is no split in the game itself. let people's skill shine, not their gender. Wrong. | ||
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NikonTC
United Kingdom418 Posts
"X division and under" tournaments are popular because people enter them thinking "there's a chance i can actually go far/win this". Which is a hell of a lot more motivating than "Well I have no chance of winning this craft cup, but at least I know i'm playing with the best." I don't understand why people are suggesting that a female only cup is damaging in any way. If nothing else, tournaments like this work as a much better motivator to convince more girls to pursue a pro gaming career. The only argument i can extract from these people is "If you give girls their own cup, they wont be motivated to improve and join the craftcups of this world". Which is bizzare, there arent enough female only tournaments for a truely determined girl to make a living off of, so eventually they're going to have to make the natural progression up to bigger cups and leagues anyway. And if they are not interested in playing for anything other than fun, why begrudge them that and say they can't have a fun tournament they have a chance of running deep in? | ||
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Ipp
United States456 Posts
On April 25 2011 20:04 annul wrote: there is no fundamental difference in a male person's physiological make-up that determines whether they will be more skilled at this game than a female. if there is a cultural split, work on mending that. there is no split in the game itself. let people's skill shine, not their gender. Hate to burst your bubble but male and female brain structure is vastly different in all species. Does it provide an edge? Who knows the studies haven't been done. However, I don't believe there is a prize pool for the tournament so no one is "missing out" on anything -- It's just an excuse for female gamers to get together and play, I don't see why this would upset anyone. That being said -- nice interview, congrats to flo~ | ||
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Stark1
Canada120 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Brian333
657 Posts
On April 25 2011 20:09 annul wrote:+ Show Spoiler + i care because i share (presumably) the same desire as suna does (equality among the genders for gamers), but she goes about it in the worst possible way. embracing equality among genders helps ALL of us. it helps the community tremendously in just about every way. female cups hurt it. it says, basically, "you cannot win the normal tournament; we need to make a special one where only players of this lower caliber can enter." why? skill is skill. presence of a penis does not mean you get +100 APM. presence of a vagina does not mean you miss chrono timings or larva injects. why segment it? I will apologize beforehand if this offends anyone, but equality in relation to males and females is quite frankly idiotic. Equality is a filter like zero-tolerance where you can just turn your brain off, not actually exercise logic, reason, and judgement, and use defined equivalencies to make decisions for you. Why segment things? Because the reality is men and women are inherently different both physically and mentally. What should be emphasized is fairness, not equality. Unfortunately, what is 'fair' is ambiguous and up to the collective pooling of logic, reason, and judgment to determine. In a day and age where people dodge responsibility and fear being labeled as sexist or racist due to a personal judgment, equality is often embraced rather than fairness. In an equal world, women should compete on the same athletic platform as men. We all know that would be disastrous on multiple levels. This is the zero-deviation approach. What reality shows is that in relation to something like basketball, we exercise the idea of fairness. It's fair that women have their own league with their own regulations. It's fair that as a result of its lesser popularity due to the level of competition, they are paid less. And, it would only be fair that if one day, a female basketball player as competent as a man emerged on the scene, that she be given a shot at an NBA contract. So, with that in mind, equality is something people like to talk about but it's like communism -- sounds great, doesn't work. The question is that by a communal standard, if such a thing as a female-SC2 tournament is fair. | ||
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Rodiel3
France1158 Posts
 , gg !On April 25 2011 20:20 Yeol wrote: She's in masters league. Not hard for scbw players  | ||
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NikonTC
United Kingdom418 Posts
On April 25 2011 20:27 Stark1 wrote: All I want to say in this sea of trolling is that you could have used some standard pics of yourself instead of looking like a facebook camwhore; it in no way helps to legitimize you as a gamer. See now what you've just done there is piss into the sea of trolling  | ||
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ptbl
United States6074 Posts
On April 25 2011 20:27 Stark1 wrote: All I want to say in this sea of trolling is that you could have used some standard pics of yourself instead of looking like a facebook camwhore; it in no way helps to legitimize you as a gamer. I'm not sure the mods will understand the subtlety of your post. | ||
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ptbl
United States6074 Posts
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Sueco
Sweden283 Posts
Lots of girls don't enjoy gaming for cultural reasons (my gf included). A female cup is a nice way to encourage more ladies to take up the game. It's the same reason we have a NASL even though the GSL is technically better, to promote the game. Of course the long term goal is to get rid of the taboo altogether and have a single league, since none of the limitants that separate the sexes in physical competitions exist in SC2. Also, you may not realize this, but heterosexual males do tend to give females extra attention. This strange phenomenon ensures the survival of the human race. Why anyone thinks that is unexpected or immoral is beyond me. P.S. Gratz Flo! Count me a fan. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On April 25 2011 20:19 EZPikachu wrote: The sad and important thing is you don't find what's in the spoiler in Chinese version because people choose to act different in other community Genders will and forever will be treated/perceived differently--this is especially true in western countries. Obtaining a level where the attitude towards both genders is somewhat acceptable is going to be a challenge, eliminating it is impossible. Segregation, however, always will work against it. It is great to bring attention to the community by creating something like an "female cup", but it only gets the attention it because of the problems you believe exists within the community-- as much as females are treated differently, there are two ends of the spectrum, one that praises and the another that scorns. You can't rid the community of the scorn without also ridding the glorification also. Segregation in a sense, works towards the opposite of what you want to achieve, but that isn't to say the good can't out weigh the bad, but just realize that every time you do it to improve the good you are going to also increase the bad | ||
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EZPikachu
United States51 Posts
On April 25 2011 20:39 Sueco wrote: Oh stop freaking out ppl. ....................Also, you may not realize this, but heterosexual males do tend to give females extra attention. This strange phenomenon ensures the survival of the human race. Why anyone thinks this is unexpected or immoral is beyond me. P.S. Gratz Flo! Count me a fan. ROFL nicely put, I'll be updating her fan page | ||
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Escapist
Portugal548 Posts
Just as an example: noone stopped a girl from trying getting qualified for one of the previous GSL's (Artosis made a video of it btw so i'll leave it here) and thats the way its supposed to be. You get a spot on a major event like the GSL because of the results you're able to put out on your matches and not because of your gender. Still, i enjoyed this event and look at it as some way of "positive discrimination" and tend to overlook any "negativity" that people might try to associate to it. For me, as a viewer, it was fun to watch and listen and hopefully we'll soon get one of the female SC2 gamers standing tall in the crowd by winning one of the so many events currently available for SC2 (an weekly online tournament would be a interesting first step imo). I collaborate with other 2 members of the community on a liveshow called GGRated (http://www.justin.tv/ggrated) so if any of you feel confortable enough to show up on skype and add some oppinions and talk about the event or anything SC2 related you might find relevant just PM me and we'll gladly get you in for a future episode. Peace and keep up the great work. | ||
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