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[Trick] Rebirth of the Viking Flower - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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insufficient
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany33 Posts
March 25 2011 06:21 GMT
#41
On March 25 2011 13:25 Mailing wrote:
It never needed to be removed in the first place.

If you see a ball of vikings spinning, would you attack it with air anyway? What's the difference if you can't tell if it's 5 of 15.

It also leaves the vikings extremely vulnerable to a thor shot.


It's extremely important in conservative TvT (Tank-Viking-Marine mirror) because depending on how many resources you spend in vikings you can either win the battle through air dominance with the right amount of vikings or lose the ground battle because you build way too much vikings.
Not able to "count" the amount of vikings or even guess it, although they are all scouted on the screen, really hurts the TvT and creates a luck factor in my opinion. I'd guess if you have to spend alot of micro in the viking flower it's more or less a tolerable thing, but pre patch it was too easy and even post patch it's too easy in my opinion
So good catch OP, like I already said. But I do hope it get's at least a bit nerfed in the future...
Yusafat
Profile Joined March 2011
Estonia20 Posts
March 25 2011 06:27 GMT
#42
I don't see why people make 3 minute videos of things as simple as a couple of lines.
Ezekyle
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia607 Posts
March 25 2011 06:29 GMT
#43
On March 25 2011 15:21 insufficient wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2011 13:25 Mailing wrote:
It never needed to be removed in the first place.

If you see a ball of vikings spinning, would you attack it with air anyway? What's the difference if you can't tell if it's 5 of 15.

It also leaves the vikings extremely vulnerable to a thor shot.


It's extremely important in conservative TvT (Tank-Viking-Marine mirror) because depending on how many resources you spend in vikings you can either win the battle through air dominance with the right amount of vikings or lose the ground battle because you build way too much vikings.
Not able to "count" the amount of vikings or even guess it, although they are all scouted on the screen, really hurts the TvT and creates a luck factor in my opinion. I'd guess if you have to spend alot of micro in the viking flower it's more or less a tolerable thing, but pre patch it was too easy and even post patch it's too easy in my opinion
So good catch OP, like I already said. But I do hope it get's at least a bit nerfed in the future...


Though it also lets the other player make a single Thor and splash your entire Viking fleet, especially since a traditional TvT player is going to have tech labbed factories, an armoury and probably vehicle weapon upgrades anyway. It has its upsides and downsides.
-miDnight-
Profile Joined September 2010
Taiwan455 Posts
March 25 2011 06:52 GMT
#44
viking flower? now it's viking circle
http://www.facebook.com/midnightsc Chinese caster from TW (go SEn)
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
March 25 2011 06:56 GMT
#45
can you stack muta and attack them with this?
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-25 09:09:11
March 25 2011 09:08 GMT
#46
Even ignoring this, you can still do an approximation of the flower by just patrolling them in an area slightly larger than the size of the unit. Same effect for all attacking at once. That was the only fix they did, your patrol just has to be between two spots that are further than the size of the unit.
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
Soleron
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1324 Posts
March 25 2011 10:53 GMT
#47
On March 25 2011 18:08 oOOoOphidian wrote:
Even ignoring this, you can still do an approximation of the flower by just patrolling them in an area slightly larger than the size of the unit. Same effect for all attacking at once. That was the only fix they did, your patrol just has to be between two spots that are further than the size of the unit.


And it looks even more silly, and you still can't count the number of Vikings in it. Great job Blizzard.
Wochtulka
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic66 Posts
March 25 2011 11:21 GMT
#48
That is very nice sir.
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
March 25 2011 11:28 GMT
#49
On March 25 2011 13:25 Mailing wrote:
It never needed to be removed in the first place.

If you see a ball of vikings spinning, would you attack it with air anyway? What's the difference if you can't tell if it's 5 of 15.

It also leaves the vikings extremely vulnerable to a thor shot.

Someone said it best here on TL awhile ago about the change, it gave even more defenders advantage to a match up that already favors the defender quite heavily.
Mutaahh
Profile Joined June 2007
Netherlands859 Posts
March 25 2011 11:42 GMT
#50
I always thought, how the hell is blizzard going to remove the flower...
and now im sure, it isn't possible
I want to fly
senor_gomez
Profile Joined June 2010
United States162 Posts
March 25 2011 13:15 GMT
#51
Sockfolder, who is da man, also released a video called Mineral Boosting 2.0 which boosts mining by ~4% using a cool movement technique. The video explaining this doesn't have nearly enough views.

crystyxn
Profile Joined November 2010
Romania254 Posts
March 25 2011 13:21 GMT
#52
nice find but blizzard will probably patch it
"You should be the one putting pressure on your opponent, not the other way around." - Artosis
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-25 13:33:58
March 25 2011 13:28 GMT
#53
since it allows banshees and vikings to still stack onto each other this will probably be removed as well. (the reason the other trick was removed, armored banshee ftw)
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
March 25 2011 13:34 GMT
#54
On March 25 2011 22:15 senor_gomez wrote:
Sockfolder, who is da man, also released a video called Mineral Boosting 2.0 which boosts mining by ~4% using a cool movement technique. The video explaining this doesn't have nearly enough views.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEYsv0YWunY


Didn't know this. Might be fun to to even if it doesn't give that much in gain.
GeorgeForeman
Profile Joined April 2005
United States1746 Posts
March 25 2011 13:34 GMT
#55
On March 25 2011 15:10 tenordrummer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2011 13:25 Mailing wrote:
It never needed to be removed in the first place.

If you see a ball of vikings spinning, would you attack it with air anyway? What's the difference if you can't tell if it's 5 of 15.

It also leaves the vikings extremely vulnerable to a thor shot.



or a well placed fungal growth! :D

One of the unsung effects of the infester buff is that countering broods with vikings will now be harder, since fungal (always an "okay" counter to vikings) will now do 30% more damage and do it quicker.
like a school bus through a bunch of kids
daffodil
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia109 Posts
March 25 2011 13:43 GMT
#56
post-patch it's very difficult to get all vikings in the 'flower'. most of the time at least one viking is too close to the patrol point and does not move. that's easily remedied with another patrol+(hold), however. it's not a perfect replacement
RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-25 13:48:52
March 25 2011 13:48 GMT
#57
On March 25 2011 22:15 senor_gomez wrote:
Sockfolder, who is da man, also released a video called Mineral Boosting 2.0 which boosts mining by ~4% using a cool movement technique. The video explaining this doesn't have nearly enough views.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEYsv0YWunY


This trick doesn't work anymore.

If they include viking flower they should make shadows stack so that a darker shadow means more vikings; like in broodwar with muta stacking.
hohoho
ThE_OsToJiY
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Canada1167 Posts
March 25 2011 13:58 GMT
#58
Awesome find dude, I hate blizzard for taking out my paTROLLing overlords :D
@ostojiy
sockfolder
Profile Joined September 2010
United States9 Posts
March 25 2011 18:32 GMT
#59
Just to clarify the Mineral Boosting 2.0 trick since some people seem to have found it, it does still work, but I thought it was too ineffective to really advertise. To put it simply, it increases mining speed by like 1% on half the patches and 7% on the others, generally the farther ones that are not mining at the beginning. The real ineffectiveness though is just that you can't spam it like the original trick, so it is impossible to boost more than around 2 workers. But you do have actions to spam at the beginning, so I guess you can get 5 more minerals or something. The most practical variation of the trick is probably having zerglings patrolling in your minerals (as shown in the second half of the video).
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
March 25 2011 18:44 GMT
#60
Oh, the internet. Always finding ways to break everything in the most arcane ways possible. I don't know why Blizzard even tries to prevent this stuff.
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
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