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What is a good framerate for master's ladder?

Forum Index > SC2 General
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cmpcmp
Profile Joined March 2010
84 Posts
March 23 2011 02:56 GMT
#1
I have recently been struggling with lag during large 200/200 ish battles, and I noticed that my framerate drops to about 15-20 in a large battle and to about 5-7 if there are large numbers of zerglings on the field. What do you think is an acceptable framerate for large battles where force field placement and small colossus adjustments often make or break you?

I am about 3200 masters toss on ladder.
If you are not confused, then you are not paying attention.
susySquark
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1692 Posts
March 23 2011 02:59 GMT
#2
I've never really experienced anything lower than 60 since I have medium settings and vsync on, so I just keep it pegged at 60 fps even at the craziest of moments. I'd say anything lower than 30 or so would start to affect how well I could micro though.
cynical
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada589 Posts
March 23 2011 03:02 GMT
#3
What does it matter what league you're in if you're wondering about FPS rate?
cmpcmp
Profile Joined March 2010
84 Posts
March 23 2011 03:14 GMT
#4
The league matters because I feel that it is affecting my play more than it might affect a bronze "a" mover, especially when I am trying to micro a large battle against the increasingly popular ling/bling heavy zerg with drops or muta ling. When there is a battle and I have 10 or fewer frames per second it really sucks.
If you are not confused, then you are not paying attention.
vicariouscheese
Profile Joined June 2010
United States589 Posts
March 23 2011 03:21 GMT
#5
On March 23 2011 12:14 cmpcmp wrote:
The league matters because I feel that it is affecting my play more than it might affect a bronze "a" mover, especially when I am trying to micro a large battle against the increasingly popular ling/bling heavy zerg with drops or muta ling. When there is a battle and I have 10 or fewer frames per second it really sucks.


If you're a scrub at least 30fps because OMG YOU CANT SEE MORE THAN THAT JESUS

but seriously make sure you get at least your monitor's refresh rate, which is usually 60hz for lcd's. So set it to low-
Yung
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States727 Posts
March 23 2011 03:25 GMT
#6
Are you playing on low, if so save up a few hundred dollars and biuld a cheap new pc.
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 03:33:11
March 23 2011 03:28 GMT
#7
This is a pretty good question actually.

While APM dosen't mean too much in and of itself, I had some really amazing results from when I played at a ~30FPS cap, maybe 35, and had 1 video card, and then with the cap increased to like 75FPS (with 2 video cards in crossfire, not that the one card couldn't have handled higher FPS on it's own).

My APM had seemingly gone up from like 110 to 155, which was pretty crazy. This may have just been luck as well as a small degree of improvement, but I don't see how it could account for everything (especially the improvement since I played SCBW for a long long time, and the APM/FPS change was only within like a week)

I'd say running somewhere around 60FPS can be pretty useful/important, and capping it somewhere around there as well.

Somewhat recently I also disabled Vsync in favor of an FPS cap instead. This is because now only does vsync potentially slow FPS by a small bit normally (when it's not capped), but when it can't run at it's vsync rate (lets say many units on thte screen and such), it will drop the FPS to a SIGNIFICANTLY lower FPS, like 1/2 of your vsync FPS, even if it is possible to run at 85% of your vsync FPS.
This is because of the mechanics of how vsync works— the only time that won't happen is if you have vsync Triple buffering enabled for your video card.

As far as I've seen and can guess, when the FPS drops from vsync kicking in, it will NOT DISPLAY on (at least SC2's built-in) the FPS counter display.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
cmpcmp
Profile Joined March 2010
84 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 03:34:03
March 23 2011 03:33 GMT
#8
Yes, I am playing on the lowest possible setting with the exception of the resolution, but i really don't want to turn that down and not use the whole screen or make it look really shitty.
If you are not confused, then you are not paying attention.
Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
March 23 2011 05:51 GMT
#9
you can definitely get to master with horrible fps just on mechanics/good strategies, but if you want to break the "barrier" of like 3400 and get to upper masters i'd say you need like 90 fps... 60 fps feels choppy when scrolling the FoV.
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
Bear4188
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1797 Posts
March 23 2011 06:19 GMT
#10
Most monitors are incapable of running beyond 60 Hz or so. Having a FPS higher than the monitor frame rate can lead to tearing, which is where you would then enable V-sync to avoid that (essentially an FPS cap). So if you have the hardware to handle it you should aim for your monitor's frame rate (probably 60 Hz), if your hardware can't handle that aim for around 30 FPS, which is where animate start to look smooth. I wouldn't recommend sacrificing resolution for frames if the slowing only happens on occasion, the resolution will always be beneficial.
"I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something." - R. Feynman
Rider
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands127 Posts
March 23 2011 06:31 GMT
#11
I think generally it's best to keep one's FPS above 40-ish. Anything below that and it'll start impacting your play given that the UI's responsiveness will start decreasing as well.

Personally I just drop the graphics detail to low/medium depending on what gives me a good solid framerate in the midgame. I might have to adjust if I'm going to be playing longer games though
My grandpa could've proxied better. And not only does he have arthritis, he's also dead.
Kammalleri
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada613 Posts
March 23 2011 06:43 GMT
#12
Where can you see FPS? I'd love to see just how bad of a state I'm forced to play in lol
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
March 23 2011 06:46 GMT
#13
im a 3200 masters with 60 fps on low... and xel nagas middle area is satan for my comp, i actually dont engage there ever lol
shire
Profile Joined August 2010
United States405 Posts
March 23 2011 06:49 GMT
#14
don't go out on dates for few weeks, upgrade video card. seriously, girls can ruin ur game life.... i recently got radeon 5870 after breaking up with ex for few weeks.
Terranium
Profile Joined February 2004
Turkmenistan144 Posts
March 23 2011 06:50 GMT
#15
If you know your opponent is running on low specs, just build a mothership, it'll be a free win. If you know what I mean.
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
March 23 2011 06:51 GMT
#16
On March 23 2011 15:43 Kammalleri wrote:
Where can you see FPS? I'd love to see just how bad of a state I'm forced to play in lol

CTRL+ALT+F I think it is.
The issue I have with it is unlike virtually everything else in SC2's GUI it uses FIXED SIZE (pixel) font size, which makes it almost impossible to read at my resolution (1600x1200).
I saw on someone's stream the other day it was clearly visible, but he must have been on like 1024x768 or something
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
Intense
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia50 Posts
March 23 2011 07:02 GMT
#17
If you're already running at the lowest resolution and still experiencing the low fps there's other small things you can do that might improve performance besides obviously upgrading. Make sure you don't have other programs running at the same time as SC2. Scan your comp with anti-virus and anti-spyware to make sure none of them are using system resources. De-frag and disk-cleanup.

When was the last time you did a complete re-install of windows? If it's been a while I'd suggest trying that, it's a good habit to do it once every 3-6 months esp if you have low specs to keep your comp running as best as it can.
pookychoo
Profile Joined September 2010
New Zealand96 Posts
March 23 2011 07:04 GMT
#18
i would say that latency matters more than FPS for most people since the requirements for SC2 are pretty low. Although, if you live in the US you're probably getting good latency quite easily.

60fps is a good base fps
Runaground
Profile Joined February 2010
Moldova36 Posts
March 23 2011 07:10 GMT
#19
Imo, fps should not be lower than 60 most of the time.
Back in the days, when I was playing wc3, I could feel difference between 64 (max wc3 fps) and 59 fps. And it really annoyed me.
WAAA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
New Zealand291 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 07:16:17
March 23 2011 07:13 GMT
#20
On March 23 2011 16:10 Runaground wrote:
Imo, fps should not be lower than 60 most of the time.
Back in the days, when I was playing wc3, I could feel difference between 64 (max wc3 fps) and 59 fps. And it really annoyed me.


Are you such a whiny bitch that you imagine you can feel a difference between 64 and 59 fps?

As for a decent FPS in battles probably like 20 is enough, wouldnt want to play the whole game at 20 tho.

User was warned for this post
Runaground
Profile Joined February 2010
Moldova36 Posts
March 23 2011 07:20 GMT
#21
On March 23 2011 16:13 WAAA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2011 16:10 Runaground wrote:
Imo, fps should not be lower than 60 most of the time.
Back in the days, when I was playing wc3, I could feel difference between 64 (max wc3 fps) and 59 fps. And it really annoyed me.


Are you such a whiny bitch that you imagine you can feel a difference between 64 and 59 fps?

As for a decent FPS in battles probably like 20 is enough, wouldnt want to play the whole game at 20 tho.


20 fps in battles? You must be kidding. Imagine good marine micro @ 20 fps. It's impossible.
rasdasd
Profile Joined June 2010
United States82 Posts
March 23 2011 07:24 GMT
#22
Im also in masters, and i actually find it impossible to play late game, especially vs zerg when there is creep everywhere and large numbers of lings. My framerate actually shows 0 at that point, and I just lose every VERY late game vZ battles
I play on lowest settings.
Stuck in traffic? Use a Reaver.
DarKcS
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1237 Posts
March 23 2011 07:28 GMT
#23
On March 23 2011 16:13 WAAA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2011 16:10 Runaground wrote:
Imo, fps should not be lower than 60 most of the time.
Back in the days, when I was playing wc3, I could feel difference between 64 (max wc3 fps) and 59 fps. And it really annoyed me.


Are you such a whiny bitch that you imagine you can feel a difference between 64 and 59 fps?

As for a decent FPS in battles probably like 20 is enough, wouldnt want to play the whole game at 20 tho.


It sounds like he's confusing vsync off max fps (64) with vsync on (59/60fps) - vsync introduces input lag, which is bad obviously. But in either case, you should ignore his technical ineptitude.
Die tomorrow - Live today
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
March 23 2011 07:29 GMT
#24
On March 23 2011 16:13 WAAA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2011 16:10 Runaground wrote:
Imo, fps should not be lower than 60 most of the time.
Back in the days, when I was playing wc3, I could feel difference between 64 (max wc3 fps) and 59 fps. And it really annoyed me.


Are you such a whiny bitch that you imagine you can feel a difference between 64 and 59 fps?

As for a decent FPS in battles probably like 20 is enough, wouldnt want to play the whole game at 20 tho.



I found that at 20 fps I can actually see the skip in the frames. So I lowered my settings and now I get 40 FPS in 200/200 battles and I can live with it. Doesn't hinder me at all.
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
March 23 2011 07:29 GMT
#25
There's something about creep graphics that give my comp a hard time. I can play on almost max but against zerg it gets choppy and practically unplayable. Don't know why creep is so HW intensive to render.
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
March 23 2011 07:30 GMT
#26
My FPS is 15 at the beginning and drops to 2 in 200/200 battles. Im in masters.

I feel lag but meh....
Jaedong :3
Runaground
Profile Joined February 2010
Moldova36 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 15:16:51
March 23 2011 15:16 GMT
#27
On March 23 2011 16:28 DarKcS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2011 16:13 WAAA wrote:
On March 23 2011 16:10 Runaground wrote:
Imo, fps should not be lower than 60 most of the time.
Back in the days, when I was playing wc3, I could feel difference between 64 (max wc3 fps) and 59 fps. And it really annoyed me.


Are you such a whiny bitch that you imagine you can feel a difference between 64 and 59 fps?

As for a decent FPS in battles probably like 20 is enough, wouldnt want to play the whole game at 20 tho.


It sounds like he's confusing vsync off max fps (64) with vsync on (59/60fps) - vsync introduces input lag, which is bad obviously. But in either case, you should ignore his technical ineptitude.


I'm not confusing anything. I really felt it: when fps was dropping to 50+ from 64. It wasnt lagging, but it had a feeling, that something is not really OK. And when fps was dropping down to 30 it was unplayable for me. Maybe I'm a player who needs pefect conditions to feel myself comfortable, but that's me.

Same for SC2: I prefer playing @ 60-70 fps with lowest settings, than @35-45 fps with medium.
Mr_Kyo
Profile Joined November 2010
United States269 Posts
March 23 2011 15:28 GMT
#28
When i had the game in fullscreen windowed, my fps was about 20. When I reverted back to normal full screen, I felt a HUGE difference while playing. It was much easier to click on things (i wouldn't miss as much). 20 fps is significantly low.
hpTheGreat
Profile Joined August 2010
United States173 Posts
March 23 2011 15:54 GMT
#29
I just got my new computer built. With the last rig I was getting 15-20fps when I would have 160+ food and in major battles it would drop to around 10. It was annoying but i dealt with it and I never felt that I lost a battle because of that lag.
Now its 75-100 fps all game long except major battles are at 60fps . on max . lololol.
Playguuu
Profile Joined April 2010
United States926 Posts
March 23 2011 15:58 GMT
#30
Lower settings then if you feel like you're not getting enough frames. It doesn't matter what league you're in, if it's affecting your play, which is obviously is, remedy it. It's a lot like fps, but not as drastic. If you start to lag in a gunfight and aren't performing because of it, you fix it.
I used to be just like you, then I took a sweetroll to the knee.
DestroManiak
Profile Joined December 2010
257 Posts
March 23 2011 16:24 GMT
#31
40 is minimum
you would want 60 though

anything below 40 will be problematic
SecondSandwich
Profile Joined July 2008
United States319 Posts
March 23 2011 16:40 GMT
#32
I am really happy to get 20FPS, which makes me sad overall :-(
I am usually between 9-18FPS...
2600 Diamond
"Whatever [flash] says is the best, is the best" -Artosis i!i!i!i!i!Find Match!i!i!i!i!!i
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
March 23 2011 16:41 GMT
#33
On March 23 2011 16:29 karpo wrote:
There's something about creep graphics that give my comp a hard time. I can play on almost max but against zerg it gets choppy and practically unplayable. Don't know why creep is so HW intensive to render.

Try turning down the "Reflections" option lower (can't remember the exact name). On higher settings creep gains reflection effects, which could possibly be causing you problems.

As far as FPS goes most of the time I play at 120FPS. I have a 120Hz monitor (for 3D), so I actually get the benefit of FPS over 60**. I couldn't tell you what it is in battles, though, as I'm too busy with the battle to be looking at the numbers :D

What's needed for masters? I couldn't say, as I'm not only a diamond scrub and I'm hardly scraping the minimum FPS either I would imagine you could get into masters as long as you have 10+ FPS in big battles, but of course you'd want higher. If you have a reliable 25+ FPS you're going to have to find something else to blame for not reaching as high as you think you should though :D


** and yes, you can tell the difference between 60fps and 120fps. Any motion looks smooooooth!
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
Kfcnoob
Profile Joined January 2011
United States296 Posts
March 23 2011 16:43 GMT
#34
when i had osx on my laptop, i was in upper diamond.
after i installed windows, and got much better performance, i had a really easy time transitioning into master's league since i could actually control what was occuring on my screen.

on osx i was getting like 5-15 fps
on windows im getting between 15-25

so, as long as ur above a certain threshold of around 35fps, u shouldnt see much decrease in ur play. if u can hit 60 in battles that is mega ideal tho. i would say ur micro would dip for any frame rate below 30.
And Artosis sayeth "the one who kills many, but loses few, comes out ahead."
KillerPlague
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1386 Posts
March 23 2011 16:52 GMT
#35
we're all gonna give you different numbers but higher than 30 imo. turn your settings down and that should help a lot
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