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On March 17 2011 19:38 Technique wrote:
Well the poll result is obvious.
Best players should play (don't know why this is even worth debating, anything else would be a joke).
The poll is pretty loaded to be honest. It's not very good.
Where is an option for limiting Koreans at 10-15 players? I can only have 5 or 40?
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On March 17 2011 18:26 vetinari wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 18:07 iba001 wrote:On March 17 2011 17:44 vetinari wrote:
Brian:
Even avilo and pokebunny don't agree with an outright banning of koreans. Like me, they feel that korean participation should be sharply limited, in order to better facilitate the development of the western scene. Myself for purely altruistic reasons, them because they hope to one day compete in the NASL. FIFA obviously agrees with our logic.
i know quite a lot about FIFA and I wouldn't exactly be holding that organisation up as a bastion of rational, logical thought. rofl. anywhoo...if anyone wants to read up on the 6+5 rule have a look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6+5_ruleit is actually a very contentious issue, especially in europe, and yes it does involve hard questions about human rights and the types of modern societies that we want to create. Do we want totally free societies where goods and people can move freely across borders. Or do we want to keep some elements of protectionism to foster local cultures and identities, or at least keep them from dying. I think you can draw a direct analogy between european football and sc2. Do we want all the best players in the world concentrated in a few teams (or leagues in sc2's case). Or do we want it spread out like it was in the 1950s and earlier? In the first example, you get the highest quality play possible. But don't forget the second examples have their charms. I read a Pele's autobiography not long ago and one thing that stuck with me were the cross continental battles between european and south american clubs. You really got the sense that those two sets of teams were completely different in culture, style, and sensibilities. Sure, they werent the highest quality teams, but the matches they played still entertained in their own way. So, for the sake of growing esports, I think the organisers are correct in making sure that NASL has representation from all around the world. It won't be the absolute top level of play, but it will deliver entertainment in other ways. Heh. For FIFA, its not about local cultures. Its that if english players can no longer be a part of the english premiere league, then eventually the english will lose interest in football itself. National and regional pride is a huge element in keeping local viewers interested in the game. And eventually, if the 6+5 rule is prevented by EU law from being applied, it will mean the long term decline, and perhaps even death of football as a major sport. In the long run, its not love of a good game that keeps people interested in sports. Its the deeper, primal instinct of supporting YOUR team. YOUR champion. If esports are to ever take off, they need to be able to tap into those emotions. We already see it in when a foreigner plays against a korean. Anyway, fun fact of the day: increased levels of oxytocin, the hormone known to play a major role in pair bonding, mother and child bonding, also known as the "cuddle chemical", also increases feelings of antagonism towards people not of ones racial/tribal group.
its totally about local cultures dude. you think chelsea supporters give a shit that their whole team is made up of imports? as long as they keep wining titles i dont think any of them will be complaining.
the problem for fifa is that european football clubs are now getting so powerful that they threaten to topple the national associations, and therefore fifa itself.
for fifa, fostering local players in this league will mean a dimunition of skill because the top players in the world won't be able to be concentrated in any one league. This will in turn make national football stronger because, taking England's example, there will be more English talent competing to get into the English side. This will ensure that International football, which thrives when it is made up of different nations with different play styles, will continue to take precedence, even though the skill level of the top leagues will fall.
Same with starcraft. You can either let the top players concentrate in one place and have a super skillful league, or you can cultivate multiple markets and have someone less skillful leagues.
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If they were to just invite the best players, wouldn't that basically mean the GSL roster with maybe a few non-Koreans to replace the worst performers at the bottom of Code A? Other than IdrA, there is really no reason to think the vast majority of players in the non-Korean scene play at even a Code A level. Not that every player in the GSL would accept the invite, but even so, you would basically end up with GSL 2.0 (now with a few more non-Koreans!), and the GSL does a pretty good job at being the GSL. Honestly, I think the tournament should just have open qualifiers, but since it won't, I say invite the players that draw viewers. That would, of course, mean inviting a lot of the best Koreans, since I think people would be more prone to watching it if that were the case; but it doesn't mean inviting everyone in the GSL.
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On March 17 2011 13:03 Locustrockz wrote:
I don't think any Koreans should be invited to play I think that they should have to go through the qualifier tournament like the foreigners have to for GSL. The tournament is obviously centered around getting SC2 going in NA not getting Koreans to come play here. That's just my opinion
So im assuming you dont think any europeans should be invited either, otherwise your just being racist.
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On March 17 2011 20:03 JSpades wrote:
If they were to just invite the best players, wouldn't that basically mean the GSL roster with maybe a few non-Koreans to replace the worst performers at the bottom of Code A? Other than IdrA, there is really no reason to think the vast majority of players in the non-Korean scene play at even a Code A level. Not that every player in the GSL would accept the invite, but even so, you would basically end up with GSL 2.0 (now with a few more non-Koreans!), and the GSL does a pretty good job at being the GSL. Honestly, I think the tournament should just have open qualifiers, but since it won't, I say invite the players that draw viewers. That would, of course, mean inviting a lot of the best Koreans, since I think people would be more prone to watching it if that were the case; but it doesn't mean inviting everyone in the GSL.
no one is saying they should only invite koreans, they are saying there should be 10 or so koreans in the tournament as well as ten or so europeans, i find it incredibly racist that people that some people are against having koreans but are still for having europeans (I want to see both of course but im trying to make a point.) If your going to make a north american league so be it.( dont think it would get many viewers though) but for all you people saying that you dont want koreans and are still for having europeans think about what your saying, your basically saying your cool with racial discrimination in this league.
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On March 17 2011 20:10 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 13:03 Locustrockz wrote:
I don't think any Koreans should be invited to play I think that they should have to go through the qualifier tournament like the foreigners have to for GSL. The tournament is obviously centered around getting SC2 going in NA not getting Koreans to come play here. That's just my opinion So im assuming you dont think any europeans should be invited either, otherwise your just being racist.
Ok, people need to stop using the word "racist".
You're making actual racists look good.
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On March 17 2011 20:14 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 20:03 JSpades wrote:
If they were to just invite the best players, wouldn't that basically mean the GSL roster with maybe a few non-Koreans to replace the worst performers at the bottom of Code A? Other than IdrA, there is really no reason to think the vast majority of players in the non-Korean scene play at even a Code A level. Not that every player in the GSL would accept the invite, but even so, you would basically end up with GSL 2.0 (now with a few more non-Koreans!), and the GSL does a pretty good job at being the GSL. Honestly, I think the tournament should just have open qualifiers, but since it won't, I say invite the players that draw viewers. That would, of course, mean inviting a lot of the best Koreans, since I think people would be more prone to watching it if that were the case; but it doesn't mean inviting everyone in the GSL. no one is saying they should only invite koreans, they are saying there should be 10 or so koreans in the tournament as well as ten or so europeans, i find it incredibly racist that people that some people are against having koreans but are still for having europeans (I want to see both of course but im trying to make a point.) If your going to make a north american league so be it.( dont think it would get many viewers though) but for all you people saying that you dont want koreans and are still for having europeans think about what your saying, your basically saying your cool with racial discrimination in this league.
No, i think they are including NA and EU in the same group with no quotas just like BW. The only quota I believe people are talking about is for Korea. The term foreigner came about because it meant everyone outside of Korea. Foreigners were worse that Koreans because of the much better practice environments that exist in Korea. It's nothing against the Korean race, it could be any country.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526
That's the way it was for BW in TSL 1+2. No one called Teamliquid racist. That's just the way it is. Certainly the skill gap is closer in SC2, but it still looks like it's still there.
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On March 17 2011 20:20 zerglingsfolife wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 20:14 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:03 JSpades wrote:
If they were to just invite the best players, wouldn't that basically mean the GSL roster with maybe a few non-Koreans to replace the worst performers at the bottom of Code A? Other than IdrA, there is really no reason to think the vast majority of players in the non-Korean scene play at even a Code A level. Not that every player in the GSL would accept the invite, but even so, you would basically end up with GSL 2.0 (now with a few more non-Koreans!), and the GSL does a pretty good job at being the GSL. Honestly, I think the tournament should just have open qualifiers, but since it won't, I say invite the players that draw viewers. That would, of course, mean inviting a lot of the best Koreans, since I think people would be more prone to watching it if that were the case; but it doesn't mean inviting everyone in the GSL. no one is saying they should only invite koreans, they are saying there should be 10 or so koreans in the tournament as well as ten or so europeans, i find it incredibly racist that people that some people are against having koreans but are still for having europeans (I want to see both of course but im trying to make a point.) If your going to make a north american league so be it.( dont think it would get many viewers though) but for all you people saying that you dont want koreans and are still for having europeans think about what your saying, your basically saying your cool with racial discrimination in this league. No, i think they are including NA and EU in the same group with no quotas just like BW. The only quota I believe people are talking about is for Korea. The term foreigner came about because it meant everyone outside of Korea. Foreigners were worse that Koreans because of the much better practice environments that exist in Korea. It's nothing against the Korean race, it could be any country. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526That's the way it was for BW in TSL 1+2. No one called Teamliquid racist. That's just the way it is. Certainly the skill gap is closer in SC2, but it still looks like it's still there.
I guess so i wasnt around for TSL 1+2 but with koreans trying so hard to include foreigners in sc2, with a gom foreigner house and foreigner seeds for code a. I think its a bit of a different situation now and in TSL 3 there is korean invites, times have changed.
Edit: and were koreans even showing interest for TSL 1 +2, 2 teams have made an effort to connect with the foreigner community and want to be in the league i dont know but with the brood war scene being so big in korea i dont know if koreans would have been interested at the time.
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On March 17 2011 20:16 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 20:10 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 13:03 Locustrockz wrote:
I don't think any Koreans should be invited to play I think that they should have to go through the qualifier tournament like the foreigners have to for GSL. The tournament is obviously centered around getting SC2 going in NA not getting Koreans to come play here. That's just my opinion So im assuming you dont think any europeans should be invited either, otherwise your just being racist. Ok, people need to stop using the word "racist". You're making actual racists look good.
Discriminatory ill start using that instead, it is discrimination if your inviting people from all over the world except korea.
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I think all of the Koreans that want to play and are good should be able to play. This is absolutely absurd that this is even a discussion. I think with the Koreans playing it will force the American scene to get better if they want to play in / compete in the tourny itself, which can do nothing but good IMO to the e-sports scene
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On March 17 2011 20:25 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 20:20 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:14 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:03 JSpades wrote:
If they were to just invite the best players, wouldn't that basically mean the GSL roster with maybe a few non-Koreans to replace the worst performers at the bottom of Code A? Other than IdrA, there is really no reason to think the vast majority of players in the non-Korean scene play at even a Code A level. Not that every player in the GSL would accept the invite, but even so, you would basically end up with GSL 2.0 (now with a few more non-Koreans!), and the GSL does a pretty good job at being the GSL. Honestly, I think the tournament should just have open qualifiers, but since it won't, I say invite the players that draw viewers. That would, of course, mean inviting a lot of the best Koreans, since I think people would be more prone to watching it if that were the case; but it doesn't mean inviting everyone in the GSL. no one is saying they should only invite koreans, they are saying there should be 10 or so koreans in the tournament as well as ten or so europeans, i find it incredibly racist that people that some people are against having koreans but are still for having europeans (I want to see both of course but im trying to make a point.) If your going to make a north american league so be it.( dont think it would get many viewers though) but for all you people saying that you dont want koreans and are still for having europeans think about what your saying, your basically saying your cool with racial discrimination in this league. No, i think they are including NA and EU in the same group with no quotas just like BW. The only quota I believe people are talking about is for Korea. The term foreigner came about because it meant everyone outside of Korea. Foreigners were worse that Koreans because of the much better practice environments that exist in Korea. It's nothing against the Korean race, it could be any country. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526That's the way it was for BW in TSL 1+2. No one called Teamliquid racist. That's just the way it is. Certainly the skill gap is closer in SC2, but it still looks like it's still there. I guess so i wasnt around for TSL 1+2 but with koreans trying so hard to include foreigners in sc2, with a gom foreigner house and foreigner seeds for code a. I think its a bit of a different situation now and in TSL 3 there is korean invites, times have changed. Edit: and were koreans even showing interest for TSL 1 +2, 2 teams have made an effort to connect with the foreigner community and want to be in the league i dont know but with the brood war scene being so big in korea i dont know if koreans would have been interested at the time.
Nongminzerg had a stream on Teamliquid and wasn't allowed to participate.
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On March 17 2011 20:32 zerglingsfolife wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 20:25 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:20 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:14 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:03 JSpades wrote:
If they were to just invite the best players, wouldn't that basically mean the GSL roster with maybe a few non-Koreans to replace the worst performers at the bottom of Code A? Other than IdrA, there is really no reason to think the vast majority of players in the non-Korean scene play at even a Code A level. Not that every player in the GSL would accept the invite, but even so, you would basically end up with GSL 2.0 (now with a few more non-Koreans!), and the GSL does a pretty good job at being the GSL. Honestly, I think the tournament should just have open qualifiers, but since it won't, I say invite the players that draw viewers. That would, of course, mean inviting a lot of the best Koreans, since I think people would be more prone to watching it if that were the case; but it doesn't mean inviting everyone in the GSL. no one is saying they should only invite koreans, they are saying there should be 10 or so koreans in the tournament as well as ten or so europeans, i find it incredibly racist that people that some people are against having koreans but are still for having europeans (I want to see both of course but im trying to make a point.) If your going to make a north american league so be it.( dont think it would get many viewers though) but for all you people saying that you dont want koreans and are still for having europeans think about what your saying, your basically saying your cool with racial discrimination in this league. No, i think they are including NA and EU in the same group with no quotas just like BW. The only quota I believe people are talking about is for Korea. The term foreigner came about because it meant everyone outside of Korea. Foreigners were worse that Koreans because of the much better practice environments that exist in Korea. It's nothing against the Korean race, it could be any country. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526That's the way it was for BW in TSL 1+2. No one called Teamliquid racist. That's just the way it is. Certainly the skill gap is closer in SC2, but it still looks like it's still there. I guess so i wasnt around for TSL 1+2 but with koreans trying so hard to include foreigners in sc2, with a gom foreigner house and foreigner seeds for code a. I think its a bit of a different situation now and in TSL 3 there is korean invites, times have changed. Edit: and were koreans even showing interest for TSL 1 +2, 2 teams have made an effort to connect with the foreigner community and want to be in the league i dont know but with the brood war scene being so big in korea i dont know if koreans would have been interested at the time. Nongminzerg had a stream on Teamliquid and wasn't allowed to participate.
Even so , wouldnt you agree that times have changed with TSL 3 inviting koreans, and all the support gom has been giving to foreigners in korea.
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On March 17 2011 20:33 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 20:32 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:25 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:20 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:14 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:03 JSpades wrote:
If they were to just invite the best players, wouldn't that basically mean the GSL roster with maybe a few non-Koreans to replace the worst performers at the bottom of Code A? Other than IdrA, there is really no reason to think the vast majority of players in the non-Korean scene play at even a Code A level. Not that every player in the GSL would accept the invite, but even so, you would basically end up with GSL 2.0 (now with a few more non-Koreans!), and the GSL does a pretty good job at being the GSL. Honestly, I think the tournament should just have open qualifiers, but since it won't, I say invite the players that draw viewers. That would, of course, mean inviting a lot of the best Koreans, since I think people would be more prone to watching it if that were the case; but it doesn't mean inviting everyone in the GSL. no one is saying they should only invite koreans, they are saying there should be 10 or so koreans in the tournament as well as ten or so europeans, i find it incredibly racist that people that some people are against having koreans but are still for having europeans (I want to see both of course but im trying to make a point.) If your going to make a north american league so be it.( dont think it would get many viewers though) but for all you people saying that you dont want koreans and are still for having europeans think about what your saying, your basically saying your cool with racial discrimination in this league. No, i think they are including NA and EU in the same group with no quotas just like BW. The only quota I believe people are talking about is for Korea. The term foreigner came about because it meant everyone outside of Korea. Foreigners were worse that Koreans because of the much better practice environments that exist in Korea. It's nothing against the Korean race, it could be any country. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526That's the way it was for BW in TSL 1+2. No one called Teamliquid racist. That's just the way it is. Certainly the skill gap is closer in SC2, but it still looks like it's still there. I guess so i wasnt around for TSL 1+2 but with koreans trying so hard to include foreigners in sc2, with a gom foreigner house and foreigner seeds for code a. I think its a bit of a different situation now and in TSL 3 there is korean invites, times have changed. Edit: and were koreans even showing interest for TSL 1 +2, 2 teams have made an effort to connect with the foreigner community and want to be in the league i dont know but with the brood war scene being so big in korea i dont know if koreans would have been interested at the time. Nongminzerg had a stream on Teamliquid and wasn't allowed to participate. Even so , wouldnt you agree that times have changed with TSL 3 inviting koreans, and all the support gom has been giving to foreigners in korea.
Yeah, I think they should invite 10 or so, and all indications are that they will at least invite 5. No need to call them racist.
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On March 17 2011 20:34 zerglingsfolife wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 20:33 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:32 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:25 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:20 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:14 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:03 JSpades wrote:
If they were to just invite the best players, wouldn't that basically mean the GSL roster with maybe a few non-Koreans to replace the worst performers at the bottom of Code A? Other than IdrA, there is really no reason to think the vast majority of players in the non-Korean scene play at even a Code A level. Not that every player in the GSL would accept the invite, but even so, you would basically end up with GSL 2.0 (now with a few more non-Koreans!), and the GSL does a pretty good job at being the GSL. Honestly, I think the tournament should just have open qualifiers, but since it won't, I say invite the players that draw viewers. That would, of course, mean inviting a lot of the best Koreans, since I think people would be more prone to watching it if that were the case; but it doesn't mean inviting everyone in the GSL. no one is saying they should only invite koreans, they are saying there should be 10 or so koreans in the tournament as well as ten or so europeans, i find it incredibly racist that people that some people are against having koreans but are still for having europeans (I want to see both of course but im trying to make a point.) If your going to make a north american league so be it.( dont think it would get many viewers though) but for all you people saying that you dont want koreans and are still for having europeans think about what your saying, your basically saying your cool with racial discrimination in this league. No, i think they are including NA and EU in the same group with no quotas just like BW. The only quota I believe people are talking about is for Korea. The term foreigner came about because it meant everyone outside of Korea. Foreigners were worse that Koreans because of the much better practice environments that exist in Korea. It's nothing against the Korean race, it could be any country. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526That's the way it was for BW in TSL 1+2. No one called Teamliquid racist. That's just the way it is. Certainly the skill gap is closer in SC2, but it still looks like it's still there. I guess so i wasnt around for TSL 1+2 but with koreans trying so hard to include foreigners in sc2, with a gom foreigner house and foreigner seeds for code a. I think its a bit of a different situation now and in TSL 3 there is korean invites, times have changed. Edit: and were koreans even showing interest for TSL 1 +2, 2 teams have made an effort to connect with the foreigner community and want to be in the league i dont know but with the brood war scene being so big in korea i dont know if koreans would have been interested at the time. Nongminzerg had a stream on Teamliquid and wasn't allowed to participate. Even so , wouldnt you agree that times have changed with TSL 3 inviting koreans, and all the support gom has been giving to foreigners in korea. Yeah, I think they should invite 10 or so, and all indications are that they will at least invite 5. No need to call them racist.
Oh no i wasnt calling the organizers of NASL racist i know they intend to invite at least 5 koreans and possibly more since they took off the cap (of five if i remember correctly) on korean players fairly quickly after they made the announcment for the NASL, i was more tallking to the people who are against korean invites but dont want it to be an NA only tournament (imo its one or the other without it getting borderline controversial just my opinion) but yea im really excited to see wich koreans they choose and how many get to participate, id be really happy with 10-15 koreans but i also dont want to see another korean only tournament i would like a nice mix of the best players from all over the world
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On March 17 2011 20:41 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 20:34 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:33 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:32 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:25 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:20 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:14 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:03 JSpades wrote:
If they were to just invite the best players, wouldn't that basically mean the GSL roster with maybe a few non-Koreans to replace the worst performers at the bottom of Code A? Other than IdrA, there is really no reason to think the vast majority of players in the non-Korean scene play at even a Code A level. Not that every player in the GSL would accept the invite, but even so, you would basically end up with GSL 2.0 (now with a few more non-Koreans!), and the GSL does a pretty good job at being the GSL. Honestly, I think the tournament should just have open qualifiers, but since it won't, I say invite the players that draw viewers. That would, of course, mean inviting a lot of the best Koreans, since I think people would be more prone to watching it if that were the case; but it doesn't mean inviting everyone in the GSL. no one is saying they should only invite koreans, they are saying there should be 10 or so koreans in the tournament as well as ten or so europeans, i find it incredibly racist that people that some people are against having koreans but are still for having europeans (I want to see both of course but im trying to make a point.) If your going to make a north american league so be it.( dont think it would get many viewers though) but for all you people saying that you dont want koreans and are still for having europeans think about what your saying, your basically saying your cool with racial discrimination in this league. No, i think they are including NA and EU in the same group with no quotas just like BW. The only quota I believe people are talking about is for Korea. The term foreigner came about because it meant everyone outside of Korea. Foreigners were worse that Koreans because of the much better practice environments that exist in Korea. It's nothing against the Korean race, it could be any country. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526That's the way it was for BW in TSL 1+2. No one called Teamliquid racist. That's just the way it is. Certainly the skill gap is closer in SC2, but it still looks like it's still there. I guess so i wasnt around for TSL 1+2 but with koreans trying so hard to include foreigners in sc2, with a gom foreigner house and foreigner seeds for code a. I think its a bit of a different situation now and in TSL 3 there is korean invites, times have changed. Edit: and were koreans even showing interest for TSL 1 +2, 2 teams have made an effort to connect with the foreigner community and want to be in the league i dont know but with the brood war scene being so big in korea i dont know if koreans would have been interested at the time. Nongminzerg had a stream on Teamliquid and wasn't allowed to participate. Even so , wouldnt you agree that times have changed with TSL 3 inviting koreans, and all the support gom has been giving to foreigners in korea. Yeah, I think they should invite 10 or so, and all indications are that they will at least invite 5. No need to call them racist. Oh no i wasnt calling the oganizers of NASL racist i know they intend to invite at least 5 koreans and possibly more since they took off the cap on korean players fairly quickly after they made the announcment for the NASL, i was more tallking to the people who are against korean invites but dont want it to be an NA only tournament (imo opinion its one or the other without it getting borderline controversial just my opinion) but yea im really excited to see wich koreans they choose and how many get to participate, id be really happy with 10-15 koreans but i also dont want to see another korean only tournament i would like a nice mix of the best players from all over the world
I think that's what a lot of people are hoping for. That's why the poll for this particular thread is pretty bad and should be redone in my opinion. The option of invite only based on skill sounds great, but it would realistically probably mean 40 koreans and 10 or so foreigners. Basically GSL 2.0. The NASL has a chance to differentiate itself from GSL, and I hope they do so.
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On March 17 2011 20:46 zerglingsfolife wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 20:41 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:34 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:33 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:32 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:25 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:20 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 17 2011 20:14 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 20:03 JSpades wrote:
If they were to just invite the best players, wouldn't that basically mean the GSL roster with maybe a few non-Koreans to replace the worst performers at the bottom of Code A? Other than IdrA, there is really no reason to think the vast majority of players in the non-Korean scene play at even a Code A level. Not that every player in the GSL would accept the invite, but even so, you would basically end up with GSL 2.0 (now with a few more non-Koreans!), and the GSL does a pretty good job at being the GSL. Honestly, I think the tournament should just have open qualifiers, but since it won't, I say invite the players that draw viewers. That would, of course, mean inviting a lot of the best Koreans, since I think people would be more prone to watching it if that were the case; but it doesn't mean inviting everyone in the GSL. no one is saying they should only invite koreans, they are saying there should be 10 or so koreans in the tournament as well as ten or so europeans, i find it incredibly racist that people that some people are against having koreans but are still for having europeans (I want to see both of course but im trying to make a point.) If your going to make a north american league so be it.( dont think it would get many viewers though) but for all you people saying that you dont want koreans and are still for having europeans think about what your saying, your basically saying your cool with racial discrimination in this league. No, i think they are including NA and EU in the same group with no quotas just like BW. The only quota I believe people are talking about is for Korea. The term foreigner came about because it meant everyone outside of Korea. Foreigners were worse that Koreans because of the much better practice environments that exist in Korea. It's nothing against the Korean race, it could be any country. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526That's the way it was for BW in TSL 1+2. No one called Teamliquid racist. That's just the way it is. Certainly the skill gap is closer in SC2, but it still looks like it's still there. I guess so i wasnt around for TSL 1+2 but with koreans trying so hard to include foreigners in sc2, with a gom foreigner house and foreigner seeds for code a. I think its a bit of a different situation now and in TSL 3 there is korean invites, times have changed. Edit: and were koreans even showing interest for TSL 1 +2, 2 teams have made an effort to connect with the foreigner community and want to be in the league i dont know but with the brood war scene being so big in korea i dont know if koreans would have been interested at the time. Nongminzerg had a stream on Teamliquid and wasn't allowed to participate. Even so , wouldnt you agree that times have changed with TSL 3 inviting koreans, and all the support gom has been giving to foreigners in korea. Yeah, I think they should invite 10 or so, and all indications are that they will at least invite 5. No need to call them racist. Oh no i wasnt calling the oganizers of NASL racist i know they intend to invite at least 5 koreans and possibly more since they took off the cap on korean players fairly quickly after they made the announcment for the NASL, i was more tallking to the people who are against korean invites but dont want it to be an NA only tournament (imo opinion its one or the other without it getting borderline controversial just my opinion) but yea im really excited to see wich koreans they choose and how many get to participate, id be really happy with 10-15 koreans but i also dont want to see another korean only tournament i would like a nice mix of the best players from all over the world I think that's what a lot of people are hoping for. That's why the poll for this particular thread is pretty bad and should be redone in my opinion. The option of invite only based on skill sounds great, but it would realistically probably mean 40 koreans and 10 or so foreigners. Basically GSL 2.0. The NASL has a chance to differentiate itself from GSL, and I hope they do so.
The invitational format is always a bit tricky , your not going to make everyone happy (like with qualifiers because you cant really argue that someone doesnt deserve to be there). I just hope they have a really solid critera for who gets an invite and who doesnt and they dont judge it on a case by case basis, it should be A player who is being considered as an NASL participant must have this this and this, and you go from there.
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On March 17 2011 17:44 vetinari wrote:
Brian:
Even avilo and pokebunny don't agree with an outright banning of koreans. Like me, they feel that korean participation should be sharply limited, in order to better facilitate the development of the western scene. Myself for purely altruistic reasons, them because they hope to one day compete in the NASL. FIFA obviously agrees with our logic.
Avilo still doesnt have a team so hes being a bit delusional as the invites stop after season 1 and he still isnt on a team wich is a requirement for the NASL
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I'd probably only set one restriction:
1) To qualify and play in the NASL, a player must play all his/her matches in North America.
It's a very simple restriction, one that was used in the GSL during the first three open seasons. To play, you have to be here.
That way, you restrict it from becoming an all-Korean tournament, but you leave the door open to anyone.
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From a small time frame perspective the fans will benefit the most with seeing the very best players in the world play. In the long-term , the non-koreans will benefit by participating with the best players. The synthesis of Koreans in to the world scene is comparable in benefits to Foreigners going to Korea to practice.
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On March 17 2011 20:57 mcgriddle wrote:
From a small time frame perspective the fans will benefit the most with seeing the very best players in the world play. In the long-term , the non-koreans will benefit by participating with the best players. The synthesis of Koreans in to the world scene is comparable in benefits to Foreigners going to Korea to practice.
Great way to put it, i dont see how its a disadvantage to anyone except players that barely make the cut off point for the NASL and probably shouldnt be there anyways, they can qualify through the open tournament and will if they are good enough.
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EPT
