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10 thoughts before my 700th FFA

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Ncinerate
Profile Joined October 2010
172 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-16 11:15:36
March 15 2011 18:01 GMT
#1
SORRY - 11 thoughts, lol!

So I'll readily admit FFA is my favorite gametype in RTS, and starcraft 2 is no exception to this. As I am about to play my 700th FFA (348 wins 698 total played, about 50% win rate), I had a few thoughts about the state of FFA.

1: Zerg sucks in FFA.

I feel uniquely qualified to say this, since a lot of my wins, and most of my losses, come from playing as Zerg in FFA. It's a sad fact, but in the lategame situations FFA put you in, zerg just can't handle the 200/200 Terran and Protoss armies that are fielded. This may change with 1.3 and improved infestors (as it sits, infestors are one of the few things that keep you somewhat viable in lategame FFA today, so improvements should help). If you are a die hard zerg and want to play FFA, my best advice to you is to focus your attention on keeping all enemies off gold expos at almost all costs, and make sure you have a dozen or more infestors late in the game as they become a versatile way to do damage around the map at low cost, and can save you from REALLY nasty enemy force compositions. In short, if you want to -win- in FFA, your best bet is playing as Protoss and Terran.

2: Terran is ridiculous.

Terran is flat out purpose built for FFA. My winning percentages as Terran are borderline disgusting (80%+ at least, I go on 10-20 game win-streaks playing as T in FFA). When I'm playing Terran and hit the lategame, I can effectively completely ignore any zerg still in the game because they pose literally ZERO threat to my unit composition (6-12 ravens with PDD/HSM+200/200 terran army = zerg can't crack you even with a massive resource advantage). Hellion drops make for -incredible- ways to do mass damage in the midgame, reapers can out-right kill an early opponent, and there are half a dozen other fun ways to attack or defend at low cost. I can turtle like a beast and hold 1-2 expos, and thats all I need to put together a game-ending force. My units are strong by themselves, but what really makes Terran FFA lategame shine is Ravens.

3: Protoss are pretty nicely equipped for FFA.

Good strong rushes combined with great lategame units really make protoss shine in FFA. While I'd still say Terran is the strongest FFA race, Protoss certainly takes up a close #2 position. Early on a quick 4-gate can eliminate a close opponent (who is likely to be macro'ing) and allow for a reasonably fast expansion - and similarly the 4 gate can fend off any enemies who were attempting to rush -you- instead.

Lategame you have a good variety of composition to draw from, and some nice spellcasters (don't forget the usefulness of FEEDBACK, especially against a raven-abusing Terran). Void rays are still one of the best lategame units to mass in an FFA, possessing remarkable power, versatility, and mobility. This is especially true once you utilize a mothership properly (and by properly, I mean by keeping it at home, and utilizing it as an EMERGENCY ESCAPE button - put her on a hotkey and if your fleet gets in trouble you simply hit the hotkey and recall the whole fleet out). There is rarely an instance where bringing a mothership to the front line is a good idea in an FFA. It's far better to use her to keep your existing forces alive and well as they buzz around the map slamming expos and mains. Abuse this and KEEP YOUR FORCES ALIVE. You don't want to trade armies - engage on your terms when you have a clear advantage until you're the last person on the map with a fleet still flying. This also goes for carrier fleets and even stalker armies to a lesser extent. If you -do- stay ground, remember to utilize feedback, as it can help manage the enemy forces most likely to do damage to your forces.

4: Ravens are the single most abusive unit in SC2.

UPDATE: An example FFA where I use ravens to absolutely abuse a master-level Zerg who has a 50,000 resource advantage.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/150623-ffa-terran-zerg-metalopolis

Although you don't see them in great numbers flying around in 1v1, in FFA ravens become destroyers of worlds. 6-12 ravens flying around totally change the dynamic of the game. PDD completely invalidates zerg as a race late in an FFA. HSM + your forces either scatters your enemy for easy kills, or completely obliterates them if they stay clumped. This is especially true vs the typical lategame unit compositions (it's very fleet-heavy in FFA, and HSM obliterates fleets). Autoturrets are just icing on the cake, giving you a quick harass option to stop the occasional expo or hold a cliff from light attack without spending cash.

5: Rushes are still a big part of FFA.

One of the most effective winning strategies for FFA is to kill your gold-sharing opponent early and take over half the map while the other 2 enemies are squabbling. That said, don't be afraid to abandon a rush and macro up if the enemy is properly defending. Also remember, rushing can create an unreasonable enemy who will hound you for the rest of the game. If your rush fails it is very important to balance this risk. A few words can help immensely here. Compliment them on their hold ("nice defense purple, seriously") and then try to divert them to a new threat ("oh crap, protoss has mass voids and is expanding everywhere"). You might only get your enemy's attention diverted half the time, but as the saying goes, you miss 100% of the shots you never take. And that brings us to....

6: Diplomacy is important.

I'll give you a good example.

I mentioned above that taking out a gold-sharing opponent raises your chances to win massively. To this end, if you notice one of your opponents manage to take out HIS gold-sharing opponent, the smart move is to try and organize some kind of tenative cease-fire with the opponent on your side of the map, at least until player 3 is knocked down a notch. During this cease fire, remember that while backstabbing can be fun, it will likely turn this enemy against you for the rest of the game, regardless of what is happing elsewhere on the map. For this reason, only backstab when you're clearly in a position to hold both remaining enemy players in a weakened state. Also remember, there can only be -one- winner in an FFA, so your newfound friend WILL attempt to backstab you eventually. Try to be the stabber and not the stabbee.

7: Always remember the FFA metagame.

Just because a couple players are clearly stronger than you on the map doesn't mean all hope is lost. Keep your scouting up and be smart with your diplomacy. Gain support of the weaker of the two players and launch attacks against the clearly stronger enemy. Kill his expos, attack when he's out of position. Don't be afraid to assist a weaker player, especially if he is a buffer enemy between you and the really strong opponent. Often times when your enemy finally pushes through this buffer opponent, he will be weak enough for you to finish off. Plenty of my games have been won from a remarkable disadvantage simply due to smart play of the metagame.

8: Don't be singleminded.

In the same way, don't be SINGLEMINDED! There are 3 enemies on the map, focusing every ounce of your energy into just one of them is a surefire way to lose. If your enemy proves to be a tough nut to crack, you're far smarter to pull back and macro up rather than continuing a long drawn out war of attrition. This ISN'T 1v1 where you push a tiny advantage all the way to victory. If you can't kill them easily, it's better to wait until the situation changes. Engage on -your- terms.

9: Holding grudges loses you games.

I know it's tempting to launch everything you have against the guy who crippled you early, but holding that grudge when there's a clearly stronger enemy elsewhere on the map is just going to get both of you killed. I respect that it feels good to cost someone the game (and sometimes, even I partake in this ritual), but

10: 5-8 player maps SUCK when you don't have 5-8 players.

The massive maps almost always set someone away from the rest of the pack and allows them to expand vigorously into the open space. It takes away the strategy and fun of an FFA and provides far too many resources for 4 players to mine down. Veto these pieces of garbage unless blizz decides to give us 5-8 player matchmaking.

11: I really wish FFA was ranked.

They rank 4v4, a gametype that is absolutely soaked in pure luck and completely imbalanced, it makes no sense that I can't have some sort of ranking for my FFA play. I would love to look and see how I stack up against other FFA players, and I feel it would bring more players into the FFA fold. I'm not asking for too much here. I want warcraft 3 style FFA, blizz knows how to do it, why have they forsaken me?



rickybobby
Profile Joined October 2010
United States405 Posts
March 15 2011 18:04 GMT
#2
Interesting insights since i dont think very many people play ffa. Im surprised that ravens are so good in ffa and that protoss isnt the best given how powerful it is late game -_-
Juzley
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom13 Posts
March 15 2011 18:05 GMT
#3
You can't trick me with your double 3s! That's 11 thoughts!
JohnQPublic
Profile Joined April 2010
United States123 Posts
March 15 2011 18:07 GMT
#4
FFA can be really fun if not frustrating when you play zerg. I see no reason why there shouldn't be a ranked option. I used to think you didn't have much control over the outcome and therefor it shouldn't be ranked but 4v4 is like 100% worse.
non sum qualis eram
bqzg
Profile Joined January 2011
64 Posts
March 15 2011 18:08 GMT
#5
my only problem with ffa is that hordes of low-leaguers play them and not many good players. i've played like 50 ffa's and i'm pretty sure i've won 80-90% of them, just by being way better than the other players. i agree that some kind of ladder system would make it more fun for everyone involved.

also, i've never had diplomacy work, ever. if you try to make an alliance with someone they assume you're trying to rusht them lol.
Ponyo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1231 Posts
March 15 2011 18:10 GMT
#6
wow thats crazy, didn't know so much was in FFA. I've never played a game of FFA.
ponyo.848
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 18:13:32
March 15 2011 18:12 GMT
#7
Nice post, FFA was my favorite way to play WC3, I miss ranked FFA. The games can be just so much more epic, nothing like having to go through all three opponents to win or coming back from a huge disadvantage by manipulating others.

I'm not sure how it does the matchmaking but it feels like there are always 1-2 terrible people in the game and it turns into more of a 1v1 or 1v2 because the skill level isn't balanced.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
Chylo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States220 Posts
March 15 2011 18:12 GMT
#8
Good insights. Agree a lot with the zerg ones. As a zerg I like those 5-8 player maps when I'm alone - gives me a chance to macro insanely and maybe win.=) Of course then the other players let one guy get 200/200 voids.....
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
March 15 2011 18:14 GMT
#9
lol i love playing ffas. when i feel like fuckin around, i go random, play an ffa and proceed to kill every single other player (like 90% of the time). im trying to get all the ffa achievements but the only one i dont have is the wins (800 ffa wins? WTF T_T)
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 18:23:45
March 15 2011 18:20 GMT
#10
FFA players average skill is probably below platinum - if you join on of these as a master level player you should be able to win them as long they dont gang up on you - regardless what race you use.

Bigger maps are good for good players - if you are good you will be able to secure 3-4 bases easily, on a "small FFA map like meta" (used to be in the pool not sure if it still is) its very annoying that you have to kill one opponent before you can take more bases. On small maps zerg was probably the best because you could just baneling bust 1 opponent take half the map and go for mass mutas and due to larva mechanics you could saturate bases the fastest.

Protoss is probably the strongest in FFAs because its easy to turtle on most maps and once you hit 200/200 with toss you are invincible.

The only reason why i play these? If iam to tired for a real game or on a heavy losing streak in 1v1s i jump in these and hulksmash the poor noobies to feel good about myself.

/E fixed my post because it probably was a misleading first sentence
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 18:22:27
March 15 2011 18:21 GMT
#11
^^ Unless you get a game full of master's players. The skill ceiling in FFA is pretty much the same as 1v1 if not higher because you have the same mechanics + increased strategy and mental aspect to worry about.

It seems to have a lower skill ceiling right now because it is unranked but it doesn't inherently have a low ceiling.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
eXwOn
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada351 Posts
March 15 2011 18:24 GMT
#12
Interesting, I always find FFAs silly easy. By being aggressive and still macroing, it's very easy for a terran to win.
#2 in the world on the ladders!!! 3.31.11 :D:D:D
SkCom
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada229 Posts
March 15 2011 18:24 GMT
#13
I enjoy playing FFA a lot as well, it really shows what strats can be abused and is pretty fun to "relax" with a FFA game from time to time. The only problem I have is people usually go AFK instead of leaving, so I have to literally clear the whole map if I win...or I get 6 pooled by 2 players ganging up on me XD
good points though, and agree on raven's being pretty good in FFAs
Uranium
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1077 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 18:40:37
March 15 2011 18:30 GMT
#14
I agree with most of what you've said here. I'm a Z player but I play T in FFA and win pretty often. I usually just do a marine/tank push and take out the guy next to me quickly, then try to hold 3 bases while turtling my face off with PF/Tank/Viking (yes I wall off every entrance to my base with ~6 PFs to block for my tanks). Then I max out on BC/Viking while I wait for the other 2 guys to fight it out for their half of the map (I only play 4 player maps like you, for the same reasons). Once it's just me and another guy I go faceroll him (BC/Viking with full Yamato Cannon energy is pretty hard to stop).

I also build about 12 Barracks with Reactors so that if my BC army dies I can constantly stream marines to his base to keep the pressure on while I rebuild my BCs. I always end up with a TON of minerals with this build so marines are free damage.
"Sentry imba! You see? YOU SEE??!!" - Sen | "Marauder die die!" - oGsMC | "Oh my god, she texted me back!" - Day[9]
Noxie
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2227 Posts
March 15 2011 18:38 GMT
#15
Pretty good writeup.. its kind of hard to take FFA seriously because you are matched with simply just other people who want to play FFA not based around skill level. FFA was a pretty big deal in WC3 and the players that played FFA exclusively seemed to have a good level of respect and I think that could be brought into Star2.

I think we may eventually see a ranked system for FFA. Here's to hoping for this.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25996 Posts
March 15 2011 18:44 GMT
#16
Really interesting. Thank you for writing this up. I'm always interested in hearing about different aspects of the game that I don't myself experience.

I agree that FFA should be ranked. There's no reason (except maybe not being able to get a consistent algorithm?) for it not to be ranked.
Moderator
Diks
Profile Joined January 2010
Belgium1880 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 18:52:54
March 15 2011 18:48 GMT
#17
I FFA a ton myself too and I agree with all your advices. Most FFA relies on killing the opponent sharing the gold so you can take your half of the map as quickily as possible while the other 2 are battling it out.
Usually the first one to get rid of his close spot opponent secures the win.

Another strong advice : You can push, harras but NEVER KILL AN OPPONENT TOO EARLY. if he quits, the other players will know what's going on. You want to crush the players just enough so they don't quit. They' ll make good diversion for you. but be sure to keep them under controle.
Kaal
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Djibouti2539 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 18:50:30
March 15 2011 18:49 GMT
#18
On March 16 2011 03:44 Chill wrote:
Really interesting. Thank you for writing this up. I'm always interested in hearing about different aspects of the game that I don't myself experience.

I agree that FFA should be ranked. There's no reason (except maybe not being able to get a consistent algorithm?) for it not to be ranked.


I'm pretty sure you could come up with a consistent algorithm for it, it'd just be alot more complicated. It should basically be like the 1v1 ranking system, but ranking players into four tiers instead of two. It's probably just laziness, not wanting to change the UI, not wanting to do the code, etc.

Edit: But I'm in total agreement on the, it should be ranked, line of thought. I'm not sure why this wasn't done in the first place. FFA is still a little luck based, but it's not terrible like 4v4.
pAzand
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden539 Posts
March 15 2011 18:52 GMT
#19
Wow, I had forgotten how much I loved FFA in RoC, bring ranked FFA back! Nice insight!
If you can chill.. Chill!
mDuo13
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 18:53:49
March 15 2011 18:53 GMT
#20
On March 16 2011 03:30 Uranium wrote:(yes I wall off every entrance to my base with ~6 PFs to block for my tanks).

You know, that sounds horribly inefficient, but on the other hand, I can imagine an FFA player walking up to a wall of PFs and tanks and saying, "uh, nevermind" and walking off to go kill someone else instead.

Now, if they fly in with mutas or VRs or something, that's a different story.

Speaking of VRs, I wonder if the ridiculous VR+Carrier fleet is as good in FFA as it is in 4v4...
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