EPTKhaydarin amulet analysis - Page 35
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Chill: I will now be moderating this thread heavily. Some of the ways people are talking down to each other in here are completely unacceptable. | ||
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WindOw
Sweden407 Posts
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bokchoi
Korea (South)9498 Posts
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Aequos
Canada606 Posts
As I don't want to spoil it, I'll say that the daily is at least a reason we should reconsider this change. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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Creegz
Canada354 Posts
The numbering of this balance actually makes a load of sense...it brings everything to a slower pace, instead of "LOLOL I HAVE HIGH TEMPLAR! IT WILL COUNTER NOW" as soon as it gets warped in. This basically levels the field so at roughly the same time, everything in that specific unit type from all 3 races will be ready to go, instead of having a 45 second lead on all units of similar type. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On March 04 2011 07:38 cLutZ wrote: Raven vs. high Templar Tech: Raven slightly faster than HT. Inherent Abilities: Raven has detection/mobility advantage Actives: Feedback/PDD are situational support abilities. Archon warp/Turret are also situational. HSM and Psy Storm are nearly the same, with HSM being harder to use. In fact, HSM is never used. You want to compare the two abilities and say Storm should be more like HSM? Really? By making the comparison you are essentially saying Storm should not exist. terran has much less need for aoe than toss. Theyre already equipped to deal with mass units. So is zerg. | ||
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AStrideR
Australia7 Posts
This is why collosus phoenix builds are becoming popular as after patch HT will almost be useless, it means that toss harrassing has been compltely destroyed | ||
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On March 04 2011 08:15 Mentalizor wrote: Did you know... it will take an orange and an apple about the same amount of time to grow? No? Well, the thing is... Once they are ready for concumption you need to peel the skin of an orange - where you can plainly eat the apple. This is not fair. They are both fruits growing on trees - so naturally they should be identical. If Blizzard somehow doesn't interfere with apples being OP compared to oranges I'd might aswell quit drinking my morning OJ... *sigh* Yes but if you upgrade to knife an orange can be quickly cut into quarters. Applle cores prevent as quick slices and still require washing. Apples and oranges are balanced. | ||
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nvrs
Greece481 Posts
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eoLithic
Norway221 Posts
I also think that if more terrans actually bothered to tech for ghost and use EMP, amulet would just look oh so more balanced imo. Terrans does need to get the fuck off tier one units and use their brains and go mech if the situation asks for it. | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
1. If you just suggest going mech, you're an idiot. Nobody has made it work yet. Good players using mech will lose to horrible protoss players. People link two or three pro games where mech has worked (typically because some early harassment put them horrible far ahead.) 2. Terran will typically have the same food of viking/ghost/medvacs as you have collosi/high templar. Your army is almost just as much tier 1 as his is. If we were only tier 1, five collosi and a few zealots would take out a 200/200 army. Storm nerf has to go through in one way or another. This is a fine way. | ||
Empyrean
17070 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On March 04 2011 17:31 EmilA wrote: When the presence of a few 2 food spellcasters results in a maxout out engagement ending in 80/200 for terran and 190/2000 for protoss, there's something wrong with that unit. 1. If you just suggest going mech, you're an idiot. Nobody has made it work yet. Good players using mech will lose to horrible protoss players. People link two or three pro games where mech has worked (typically because some early harassment put them horrible far ahead.) 2. Terran will typically have the same food of viking/ghost/medvacs as you have collosi/high templar. Your army is almost just as much tier 1 as his is. If we were only tier 1, five collosi and a few zealots would take out a 200/200 army. Storm nerf has to go through in one way or another. This is a fine way. Yes, Protoss armies are made up of a good amount of T1, but the difference is that our armies do not get most of their dps from their T1 units. The units that are actually doing the damage are the T3 units. There is probably no doubt that Khaydarin Amulet needed a nerf in some way. However, straight up removal of the upgrade is almost definitely not the right way to do it. Scaling the amount of starting energy down would be much better. The biggest concern people have is the fact that Protoss essentially already only has 2 core strategies: 4gate (and its variations) and colossi (and its variations). Colossi make up the backbone of pretty much every single Protoss army that gets to mid-late game and this play is stagnant and boring. Blizzard themselves already expressed their own concerns that Protoss players are relying too much on the Colossi. By nerfing the templar tech path in such a spectacular way will only reinforce the notion that Colossi tech is the only really viable tech path to go. | ||
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Rayansaki
Portugal1266 Posts
On March 04 2011 15:27 ZeRoMist wrote: the fact that this hurts toss so much is when the game gets to the point where the terran can drop 4 marruaders in the back of your base and kill a shit load of stuff and then when you to deal with that they drop somewhere else. And when you drop the terran he just warps in marines and kill everything right? People seem to forget terran isn't the only race with dropships. In fact, toss drops are even stronger than terran drops because you can also warp in. If terran has no way to defend without moving units why are protoss supposed to just spawn 2 units and destroy a drop worth 5 times more. --------------------------------- >the fact this hurts terran so much is when the game gets to the point where the protoss can drop 2 immortals and warp in 5 zealots in the back of your base and kill a shit load of stuff and then when you to deal with that they drop somewhere else.< | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
On March 04 2011 17:16 eoLithic wrote: I think amulet was way too strong. A storm will probably end the game if landed perfectly. Don`t see it too often against zerg, but when the idiot teran mass MMM stims his 200/200 army, and 2-3 storms are landed, it`s over. Protoss wins. So a hightemplar doesn`t only harcounter the most popular tech for terrans, but HT will win a fight, that`s about it I think. I also think that if more terrans actually bothered to tech for ghost and use EMP, amulet would just look oh so more balanced imo. Terrans does need to get the fuck off tier one units and use their brains and go mech if the situation asks for it. The problem with Mech is getting it up and running and the response from Protoss. Hellions are good, no denying that but they do lack any punch against non-light units. Tanks are terrible, they become ok-ish in large numbers but Immortals, Chargelots with Colossi or Void Rays all nullify tank play very quickly. Furthermore, tank splash damage against Zealots will do a lot of friendly fire. Thors have generally the same weakness as the tank, albeit a little less and Strike Cannons work decently against Immortals, but Chargelot and Thermal Lance work very well against it. The main issue is that Protoss doesn't really need to change his army composition/response much except if he went pure Zealot / HT. Chargelot / Colossi works well against both Bio and Mech. Storm still kills any supporting Bio units and Protoss can always swap them to Archons. Mech also takes a while to become good, just two/three Tanks or Thors with Bio does very little. I'd rather go Air then Mech, which I feel needs to be used more against Protoss. Viking/Banshee can be hard to deal with as Protoss if executed properly. | ||
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Mentalizor
Denmark1596 Posts
On March 04 2011 17:13 DusTerr wrote: Yes but if you upgrade to knife an orange can be quickly cut into quarters. Applle cores prevent as quick slices and still require washing. Apples and oranges are balanced. So... Oranges being HT's it's fine that once you actually invest in proper upgrades they're better than apples (m&m) that you would initially have an easier time handling? | ||
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Mentalizor
Denmark1596 Posts
On March 04 2011 18:28 Rayansaki wrote: And when you drop the terran he just warps in marines and kill everything right? People seem to forget terran isn't the only race with dropships. In fact, toss drops are even stronger than terran drops because you can also warp in. If terran has no way to defend without moving units why are protoss supposed to just spawn 2 units and destroy a drop worth 5 times more. --------------------------------- >the fact this hurts terran so much is when the game gets to the point where the protoss can drop 2 immortals and warp in 5 zealots in the back of your base and kill a shit load of stuff and then when you to deal with that they drop somewhere else.< What? Medivacs with marines or marauders (with stim obviously) will do MUCH more dmg - MUCH fast - with MUCH better synergy if actually encountered by a small force (like 4 units warping in)... As protoss I really dont want to warp in 4 stalkers (500/200/8) that I know will die. Stalkers' dps is insanely low compared to stimmed m&m. And yes, one round of T production should easilly be able to kill one round of WG units. The whole issue comes down to terran t1 being so strong against protoss t1 that most terran actually rely on this almost entirely. If T went with mech and flying it the KA wouldn't be as much of an issue (yes, I know how storm destroys banshees or vikingflowers - but I reckon you heard about micro?). So to me... This just makes Terran t1 viable from early game --> mid game --> late game --> super late game... I mean... I rarelly play zerg units that will dump alot of supply into lings unless it's for runby's or mineral dumps | ||
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Eyx
England165 Posts
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Victim
United States188 Posts
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zivac
Croatia389 Posts
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