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I have come to a realization. When it comes to Zerg, it will always be a buff but a nerf as well. With protoss, there will just be drastic nerfs. But with terran, Blizzard will 'adjust' certain builds, but they do not like to really adjust the units themselves. Hence why although did did nerf the Bc, they are trying to make them useful, but more importantly, they are nerfing the bunker rush builds.
We just need to admit it, nothing will really change to Terran until HoTs...
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Most of the patches have been pretty good but this patch seems kinda horrible. The HT nerf is way uncalled for. Why not make the Khydarin amulet give less energy, like only 15 or 20? Nice job Blizz failing to nerf the units that actually need it (colossus?).
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On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. Ghosts also cost 100 min extra
so paying extra 100 mins for a unit that:
- can shoot and deals good dmg to light
- is fast
- 20hp more
- is not light (why the fuck is that actually in the game, why is a ghost not light)
- can cloak
- 1 emp can win a game, 1 storm cant
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On February 26 2011 12:49 KonohaFlash wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:44 Dakkas wrote:On February 26 2011 12:39 TheDemigod wrote:On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. Ghosts also cost 100 min extra Maybe you should stop building bio armies against T3 units designed to destroy them? Exactly, terran keep sticking to T1 with a sprinkle of T2-3 to fight Protoss who has to go to T3 to win and terran complain? Get some mech in your army like when Jinro beat MC. I mean is it so hard to use more than one type of production facility? I hear this all the time. Terran mech is slow and isn't as mobile as the Protoss Deathball. Why sacrifice doing drops in a Protoss' base, sniping buildings and having mobility, Just to have units that are sluggish and get eaten up by Chargelots,Immortals, Phoenix and Void rays? D:
I don't mean take mech as the main composition, I mean to have a few just like how protoss will have a few immortals and void rays
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On February 26 2011 12:48 Lokian wrote:
i like how blizzard is making the game more acessible. no more generic skills that require macro management. now ppl will cocentrate on what really matters
Ya it's great
Now players that never bothered to develop mechanical skill are one step closer to being as good as the players that put in effort.
Sounds fine to me!
(that said, these changes aren't going to do much at the high level so its not a big deal)
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A whole bunch of 1aing Terrans and Zergs acting like the changes to Protoss were fair.
First off the Vertex change was retarded. Hurp durp, I vertex my enemy and now he just walks his whole army in there and then pops out and gets to fight me while invulnerable!
But whatever. Mothership was fucking useless already.
Now we have the HT change. Hey look we have this really slow unit that is super gas intensive and takes a ton of tech to get too. It is completely countered by a faster, stealthed unit that has an AoE making all HTs in the area useless. That AoE comes standard with the counter. But! Saving grace of HT, you can warp them in with Amulet both to have a cost effective answer to drops and to have a cost effective unit against 1a Terran bio balls. But now you have to wait 40 seconds for it to be able to Storm. Later. Back to Colossus.
It is completely obvious that Blizzard only wants Protoss to do two things: 4gate and make Colossus. Anything else you do is being routinely nerfed and made more difficult to carry out.
I don't think Protoss is underpowered. Just increasingly 1 dimensional on one hand or ridiculously convoluted and inefficient on the other.
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On February 26 2011 12:47 Shooks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:45 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:39 TheDemigod wrote:On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. Ghosts also cost 100 min extra Maybe you should stop building bio armies against T3 units designed to destroy them? That's not what blizzard likes. That's probably why they nerfed the tank from 50 to 35 damage against marines, to prevent siege from absolutely denying bio. Actually every Terran player should transition into Mech in the lategame vs Protoss, and a lot of Terran have been doing it, you probably just don't know how to play.
I don't play terran, that's probably why.
Mech play also DIES to immortals (absent ghosts), carriers/voids. Mech is also pretty bad against colossi.
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This build makes 4 gate more viable.
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On February 26 2011 12:36 57 Corvette wrote:
Well, so much for 2base chargelot HT.
Bio+Vikings gonna be a bitch to deal with.
More general protoss nerf qq ect.
From a non-biased POV though, this will fix a few things people were having problems with. I don't really understand the fungal duration time. I thought the point was the time stuff stayed immobile, not the damage it deals.
8 seconds is kind of a ridiculous time for your army to be unmicroable. I fully agree with the change
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On February 26 2011 12:49 Lucius22 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. Ghosts also cost 100 min extra so paying extra 100 mins for a unit that: - can shoot and deals good dmg to light - is fast - 20hp more - is not light (why the fuck is that actually in the game, why is a ghost not light) - can cloak - 1 emp can win a game, 1 storm cant
we terran players agree unilateraly to trade HTs for ghosts any time.
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On February 26 2011 12:49 KonohaFlash wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:44 Dakkas wrote:On February 26 2011 12:39 TheDemigod wrote:On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. Ghosts also cost 100 min extra Maybe you should stop building bio armies against T3 units designed to destroy them? Exactly, terran keep sticking to T1 with a sprinkle of T2-3 to fight Protoss who has to go to T3 to win and terran complain? Get some mech in your army like when Jinro beat MC. I mean is it so hard to use more than one type of production facility? I hear this all the time. Terran mech is slow and isn't as mobile as the Protoss Deathball. Why sacrifice doing drops in a Protoss' base, sniping buildings and having mobility, Just to have units that are sluggish and get eaten up by Chargelots,Immortals, Phoenix and Void rays? D:
Seeing how Chargelots, immortals, phoenix and VRs actually aren't the counter to a 200 mech army, I'm guessing you've never gone mech?
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On February 26 2011 12:46 HubertFelix wrote:
It's fun that people complaining about the mule/queen/chronoboost announce are protoss and terran.
They are complaining because the game is "easier" while having the easy mechanics.
I'm a zerg player and I hate this change. It's just making macro easier when its already pretty easy compared to bw.
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On February 26 2011 12:52 Toxi78 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:49 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. Ghosts also cost 100 min extra so paying extra 100 mins for a unit that: - can shoot and deals good dmg to light - is fast - 20hp more - is not light (why the fuck is that actually in the game, why is a ghost not light) - can cloak - 1 emp can win a game, 1 storm cant we terran players agree unilateraly to trade HTs for ghosts any time.
As long as we can still do 100 instant dmg, I think that's a fair trade
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On February 26 2011 12:51 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:47 Shooks wrote:On February 26 2011 12:45 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:39 TheDemigod wrote:On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:
[quote]
coming soon: removal of thermal lance
Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. Ghosts also cost 100 min extra Maybe you should stop building bio armies against T3 units designed to destroy them? That's not what blizzard likes. That's probably why they nerfed the tank from 50 to 35 damage against marines, to prevent siege from absolutely denying bio. Actually every Terran player should transition into Mech in the lategame vs Protoss, and a lot of Terran have been doing it, you probably just don't know how to play. I don't play terran, that's probably why. Mech play also DIES to immortals (absent ghosts), carriers/voids. Mech is also pretty bad against colossi.
That explains while Jinro's mech lost so bad against MC... Wait a second.
User was warned for this post
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No more archon toilet ): I hope they don't keep that. No more amulet means no more templar getting for me..
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i don't think this HT change will stick to be honest
maybe i'm being too hopeful, but even if it does maybe P can learn to deal? i'm going to play some games on PTR and try templar a few matches before i qq to much about it
+ Show Spoiler +
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am i the only one who finds it ridiculous that these changes TOTALLY counteract the win percentages for top EU which leaked some days ago which were like:
PvT 41%
PvZ 45%
TvZ 55% (?)
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On February 26 2011 12:49 Lucius22 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. Ghosts also cost 100 min extra so paying extra 100 mins for a unit that: - can shoot and deals good dmg to light - is fast - 20hp more - is not light (why the fuck is that actually in the game, why is a ghost not light) - can cloak - 1 emp can win a game, 1 storm cant
To refute your points, HT can:
-morph into archons ("free" units)
-warp in anywhere at anytime
-100 minerals cheaper
-Dunno about the light aspect (blizzard has their heads in their asses about this, just like how the baneling isn't light either)
-cloak require research
-1 storm can win you the game, also you deserve to lose if 1 emp drains all of your HT
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I really dislike this proposed patch.
First, the fact that stim will come a bit later really wont affect the game that much, 3 racks timing attacks will be delayed, but I think most players can stop that at this point if they know its coming. Stim needs a small nerf in its effectiveness, not the timing.
Second, while bunker rushes are annoying tvz, i think zerg needs an early game buff more than bunkers need a +5 second nerf.
Third, I HATE the amulet removal. Perhaps if some other change accompanied this removal I might be able to live with it, but not as it is currently constructed. HTs are a strong unit, but they are strong for a reason. It takes forever to get the tech and upgrades to make them effective, and still there are ways for both terran and zerg to deal with them. Their energy regen along with their speed is a joke and without amulet it is going to be rare for anyone to be willing to risk all the time to get storm, and then have to wait 45 seconds to actually use the unit. If this patch goes live then its just going to be more colossus fests.
Forth, BC upgrade is a bit ridiculous, as I remember they were slow as hell in BW too. Perhaps somewhat of a speed upgrade is acceptable, but they should not be as fast as carriers. If blizzard wants more late game diversity then why nerf hts, motherships, and broodlords (if that is indeed true).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Cqyuj.jpg)
