EPTPatch 1.3 on PTR - Page 42
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BrenttheGreat
United States150 Posts
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Uhnno
Netherlands288 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:51 101toss wrote: I don't play terran, that's probably why. Mech play also DIES to immortals (absent ghosts), carriers/voids. Mech is also pretty bad against colossi. Mech obliterates MANY toss compositions so hard it's not funny. I still have no idea how to counter a well mixed Thor/Hellion/Tanks/Viking+ mineraldump at marine mix except to not let them get there. | ||
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PR4Y
United States260 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:24 tyrless wrote: Zerg doesn't need more ways to do damage it needs more ways to deal with the mobility of other races Terrans are looking ok in their changes, still reeling from the awful depot-before-rax change. Are you serious? Do you even play this game? I'm sorry, I dont usually post here but I am a very active lurker (contradiction?  ) and about 2600 diamond...Zerg needs to deal with the mobility of other races? Come on dude, that statement lowered my IQ a bit, lets try to be a bit more constructive with our posts and not spew garbage everywhere. The zerg race DEFINES mobility. Terrans "still reeling from depot before rax"... ? I honestly cant comprehend the logic behind this statement. This was a VERY necessary change. Name a single top-tier terran that is still "reeling" in this change. All in all, I'm not going to state what others have said about this patch, as it's all been said before... Some of this patch is justified, some of it completely useless. Here are some of my key points regarding the controversial changes to Toss: 1. Vortex didn't need a nerf. It needed to be changed back to when only the initial AoE'd units were effected (units cant jump in after) 2. HT's really are useless now. It is such a huge investment into a tech path that they really only become viable as a LATE-LATE-game support unit and perhaps harassment unit. At the point in the game in which they DO become useful (after this patch) it wont matter anyways because the other races will easily and long ago had plenty of paths to counter this style of play. Blizzard made some mistakes with this patch, no doubt. Anybody who plays protoss will really be feeling the effects of this. Myself, I'll be sticking to a 3gate sentry expand into 2x stargate with an extra gate or two. Voids are still a great support unit, so long as the opponent isn't going mass marine / hydra... We will see how this pans out. | ||
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MechaCthulhu
United States136 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:55 101toss wrote: To refute your points, HT can: -morph into archons ("free" units) -warp in anywhere at anytime -100 minerals cheaper -Dunno about the light aspect (blizzard has their heads in their asses about this, just like how the baneling isn't light either) -cloak require research -1 storm can win you the game, also you deserve to lose if 1 emp drains all of your HT I'm going to go out on a limb and say if you lose the game to 1 storm, you probably deserved to lose... And you can "warp in anywhere at anytime" so long as you ignore the need for a pylon and the Warpgate cooldown. | ||
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Shooks
Australia256 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:51 101toss wrote: I don't play terran, that's probably why. Mech play also DIES to immortals (absent ghosts), carriers/voids. Mech is also pretty bad against colossi. Immortals get 250mm Strike Cannon'd, you need to have a ground army before you tech to VR/Carrier, you also need to be on 3 bases +. Collosi work if there not going hellions cause chargelots evaporate. And if Terran scouts Stargates early they can do a timing with vikings as seen in the MC vs Jinro game. Mech is definitely strong | ||
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KonohaFlash
Canada1590 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:50 Dakkas wrote: I don't mean take mech as the main composition, I mean to have a few just like how protoss will have a few immortals and void rays Protoss and Terran are designed differently man. All Terran units have building time, so it's harder to compliment your bio with mech since you will be sacrificing income towards your bio army and will have far less medivacs and vikings. As toss you can warp in your gateway units while your void rays and immortals are building and chronoboost those structures to bring them out faster. That allows you a far more efficient way of making hose high tier units. | ||
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DisaFear
Australia4074 Posts
Nerfing stim helps Protoss early game, and nerfing HT helps Terran late game eh? Agree with Infestors getting more health and the armourdamage buff, though halfing the stun time? | ||
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Mystogun
United States392 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:55 101toss wrote: To refute your points, HT can: -morph into archons ("free" units) -warp in anywhere at anytime -100 minerals cheaper -Dunno about the light aspect (blizzard has their heads in their asses about this, just like how the baneling isn't light either) -cloak require research -1 storm can win you the game, also you deserve to lose if 1 emp drains all of your HT Archons are not free. They cost two templar, and they pretty much change them from a useless unit after storming to a less fail unit that can take some hits but it doesn't matter since marauders slow them and with stim micro archons can't even hit. Cloak requires research, but so did storm and amulet. It cost a hell of a lot of gas for one HT to even be useful. Ghosts don't need cloak to take out a ton of shields, and sentry energy. 1 storm does 80 damage over a period of 4 seconds. if you keep your stim-able bio underneath the storm then you deserve to lose. | ||
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Ratel
Canada184 Posts
![[image loading]](http://s1.postimage.org/ieebja6uu/toss.png) | ||
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Lucius22
172 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:55 101toss wrote: To refute your points, HT can: -morph into archons ("free" units) -warp in anywhere at anytime -100 minerals cheaper -Dunno about the light aspect (blizzard has their heads in their asses about this, just like how the baneling isn't light either) -cloak require research -1 storm can win you the game, also you deserve to lose if 1 emp drains all of your HT -snipe kills a templar ALWAYS in 2 shots (50 energy), feedback often does not kill the ghost -it needs wtf apm and aim to hit like 5 ghosts with feedback while emp you just roughly can aim 10m away from the ht -emp is good vs every protoss unit, while storm sucks vs mech and bcs -archons are actually 100% useless -free emp -energy upgrade cheaper and less build time -ghost academy way cheaper and builds faster and is way faster to reach in the tech tree so sup? | ||
palookieblue
Australia326 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:51 fadestep wrote: I like how you just assumed all the Terran and Zerg players were rubbish. Nicely done. To be fair the race which encourages the most 'let's make a deathball and 1a' is actually Toss, not that it's relevant at all.A whole bunch of 1aing Terrans and Zergs acting like the changes to Protoss were fair. First off the Vertex change was retarded. Hurp durp, I vertex my enemy and now he just walks his whole army in there and then pops out and gets to fight me while invulnerable! But whatever. Mothership was fucking useless already. Now we have the HT change. Hey look we have this really slow unit that is super gas intensive and takes a ton of tech to get too. It is completely countered by a faster, stealthed unit that has an AoE making all HTs in the area useless. That AoE comes standard with the counter. But! Saving grace of HT, you can warp them in with Amulet both to have a cost effective answer to drops and to have a cost effective unit against 1a Terran bio balls. But now you have to wait 40 seconds for it to be able to Storm. Later. Back to Colossus. It is completely obvious that Blizzard only wants Protoss to do two things: 4gate and make Colossus. Anything else you do is being routinely nerfed and made more difficult to carry out. I don't think Protoss is underpowered. Just increasingly 1 dimensional on one hand or ridiculously convoluted and inefficient on the other. Secondly it's 'Vortex', and the whole archon thing was pretty ridiculous. Mothership isn't useless - I'd say mass recall is excellent for versatile movement. Most protoss players go colossus because it's a very easy unit to use, not because it is inherently better. Just get 5+ and the splash will annihilate most ground armies. HTs were actually too powerful and it's nothing new - this has been mentioned months ago. 4gating and Colossus play will always be popular because they're easy to execute. :3 | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
Look at the patch as a whole. While the HT nerf certainly is sad, the terran nerfs make 4gate sooooooooooo much more powerful. There is a larger timing window before stim finishes, and bunkers take a longer to go up. Adapt, don't complain. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:56 Uhnno wrote: Mech obliterates MANY toss compositions so hard it's not funny. I still have no idea how to counter a well mixed Thor/Hellion/Tanks/Viking+ mineraldump at marine mix except to not let them get there. 2 robo mass immortals to critical mass. And use your warp prism and proxy pylon to harass Terran, his army should be quite immobile. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:39 Kratisto wrote: I quit. Oh right, constructive discussion. What was wrong with Templar before? Protoss, Terran, and Zerg all had good responses to Templar tech (EMP and high health units, roach regen). I guess we'll be seeing even more Colossus-centric Protoss strategy, if that's even possible. Most people disagree with you. Templars broke TvP lategame into oblivion. | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:55 101toss wrote: To refute your points, HT can: -morph into archons ("free" units) -warp in anywhere at anytime -100 minerals cheaper -Dunno about the light aspect (blizzard has their heads in their asses about this, just like how the baneling isn't light either) -cloak require research -1 storm can win you the game, also you deserve to lose if 1 emp drains all of your HT No offense but that refute is horrible. For one, the archon is NOT a free unit. Especially since it requires TWO units to even create one. And even then, it is a unit that can be easily taken down and completely obliterated with a single Emp Yes, you CAN morph it anywhere (if there is a pylon), but unlike the Ghost, it cannot attack. A single emp or use of an ability nullifies its use. It becomes a walking (well floating) target that can't defend itself. The only reason Archons would be use is simply because the Ht's have used up their energy and they have more use becoming a single unit than waiting to regen energy. 100 minerals cheaper (not really a huge issue since with these units, the primary cost is the gas, not minerals. Also, do not forget that they are quicker, more agile, and more difficult to single out (unlike the slow moving Ht's). How is cloak requiring research a refute? It is still an ability is it not? It is still an ability that makes it far superior and allows its chances to survive to a higher percentage. 1 storm cannot win a game. 1 storm can kill workers, 1 storm can kill marines... and? Can't kill a tank, can't kill marauders, etc. etc. | ||
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tSaR
United States22 Posts
While I dont think the infestor change will help zerg out of the funk its in, the simple fact is zerg just isnt as polished gameplay wise as the other races. The overseer and BL changes are clearly a glitch, it just makes no sense. I feel a bit sorry for terrans...i just hope the changes wont hurt our GSL rep. Jinro. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
Iefnaij pulled off a version of this against Qxc in the recent GCPL match. Seems to work reasonably. | ||
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GrandCrusader
New Zealand47 Posts
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Ratel
Canada184 Posts
On February 26 2011 13:00 101toss wrote: P players, Look at the patch as a whole. While the HT nerf certainly is sad, the terran nerfs make 4gate sooooooooooo much more powerful. There is a larger timing window before stim finishes, and bunkers take a longer to go up. Adapt, don't complain. i would be ok with it if they REMOVED STIM | ||
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