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On February 26 2011 12:34 [Avarice] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:24 tyrless wrote:
Disappointing that they are reducing diversity of tactics in order to force "balance". Zerg doesn't need more ways to do damage it needs more ways to deal with the mobility of other races, Infestors continue to get the shaft. Removing Amulet is not wise, it's appropriate as a costly lategame upgrade. Mothership becomes increasingly pointless, vortex radius is so small that only an afk bronze leaguer would let their entire army get devoured by one. Terrans are looking ok in their changes, still reeling from the awful depot-before-rax change. This is my main problem with these fixes. They're nerfing the wrong things and reducing the diversity of tactics. It's not that balance changes shouldn't happen with all of the things they changed, but they just changed them wrong. "hey, archon toilet is broken, let's just make mother ship completely useless." "hey, warped in storm-ready HTs could maybe be too strong, let's just make toss go Colossi every game." Maybe at the end balance is achieved, but I'd much rather play a slightly imbalanced game with many viable options versus a balanced game where each race does two builds.
They banish the quirks that aren't bugs (i.e. fazing, archon toilet, mining time reduction, etc.), quirks that made BW awesome (i.e. hold lurkers).
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"SC2 Public Test server is not available right now. Please check http://www.battle.net/sc2/game/ptr/ for more information."
Wat. Are people currently playing PTR? At first my patch keep restarting and then I tried it again and now this.
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On February 26 2011 12:34 jaearess wrote:
The Fungal Growth change is a nerf for every use it currently has. More DPS, but lower duration of the stun. It does a bit more to armored, but the 8 second stun and the instant cast were the parts that made it a good, not the DPS--especially since the overall damage didn't actually change.
My worry (we'll see if it happens) is that with the double dps, zerg might now have too strong a lockdown on everything. marines die to 2 fungals, now you can do that damage twice as fast. But we'll see if it actually becomes a problem.
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On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. Ghosts also cost 100 min extra
That's the awesome thing about EMP, it deals the damage instantly, Storm doesn't.
I'd be more than willing to pay an extra 100 minerals to give my HTs a nonretarded speed and the ability to actually shoot things.
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On February 26 2011 12:37 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:36 Sra wrote:
so guys with acces to the PTR, are the marco alerts just a text message? or does it come with sound? Just a little icon on the side, like when your building completes. THATS IT./
ok thx, i never read those lol
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United States9232 Posts
Honestly, I was hoping for something like "Psi storm tech cost reduced from 200/200 to 150/150. Khadarian Amulet cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/150, gives +15 energy instead of +25.
Would be a way to make templar much more accessible but not "imma warp in some templar and insta storm you," retarded ability that everyone minus extremely biased Protoss players think is flat out stupid.
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On February 26 2011 12:35 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:32 SolidusR wrote:
Jeez guys it's the PTR relax, remember when infestors had a big FG nerf coming and now it's getting buffed? Just calmly address your concerns to the appropriate forum in Bnet where the dev's may get a chance to view your logic. I for one am calling it right now that HT will get some form of Khaydarin back, and I'm sure other things will be adjusted as well. I actually think it's a huge fungal nerf. The advantage to fungal was that it stalled your enemy. They either had to sit it out (while taking minor damage) or split their forces. Now it'll do a tiny bit more damage to armored units (46.8 total?), but will have half the stalling effect. Even worse, it's dodgable. Yay for stim kiting fungal growth! Wanted infestors to grab those phoenix and stop them from harassing you? They might get away now! Nobody cared about the damage, that isn't what fungal was good for. It's not a zerg psi storm, it's a root, and half the root time and possibly avoiding it is a huge fungal nerf.
Have you played the PTR? I mean I've been playing around with Fungal growth, and It's actually quite hard to dodge it, It's not instant but it doesn't mean you can't catch units. It's basically EMP now.
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Holy shit a spell that actually might counter marines!!!!!
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On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200.
No it doesn't, unless it's just marines. But storm is the other counter of bio, marines in special, along with colossus. Either way, don't rely on tier 1 units for the whole game. Mix mech in there and your problem is more than solved.
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High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.
I quit.
Oh right, constructive discussion. What was wrong with Templar before? Protoss, Terran, and Zerg all had good responses to Templar tech (EMP and high health units, roach regen). I guess we'll be seeing even more Colossus-centric Protoss strategy, if that's even possible.
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On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. Ghosts also cost 100 min extra
Maybe you should stop building bio armies against T3 units designed to destroy them?
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On February 26 2011 12:37 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:34 [Avarice] wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 tyrless wrote:
Disappointing that they are reducing diversity of tactics in order to force "balance". Zerg doesn't need more ways to do damage it needs more ways to deal with the mobility of other races, Infestors continue to get the shaft. Removing Amulet is not wise, it's appropriate as a costly lategame upgrade. Mothership becomes increasingly pointless, vortex radius is so small that only an afk bronze leaguer would let their entire army get devoured by one. Terrans are looking ok in their changes, still reeling from the awful depot-before-rax change. This is my main problem with these fixes. They're nerfing the wrong things and reducing the diversity of tactics. It's not that balance changes shouldn't happen with all of the things they changed, but they just changed them wrong. "hey, archon toilet is broken, let's just make mother ship completely useless." "hey, warped in storm-ready HTs could maybe be too strong, let's just make toss go Colossi every game." Maybe at the end balance is achieved, but I'd much rather play a slightly imbalanced game with many viable options versus a balanced game where each race does two builds. They banish the quirks that aren't bugs (i.e. fazing, archon toilet, mining time reduction, etc.), quirks that made BW awesome (i.e. hold lurkers).
Things like that are pretty stupid of them to do, seriously. It was seeing pros go that in games which made it so exciting to watch
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Amulet was pretty ridiculous, but removing it outright with no reduction to EMP and no compensation to ht at all is... uh...
fuck it all i dont want to make colossi
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On February 26 2011 12:35 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:30 Caphe wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 AmaZing wrote:
An alert has been added when MULEs expire.
# An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.
# An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.
hahahahaha the joke has begun. Hey lets take mechanics out of the game altogether, that would be a great idea Yeah, beside the HT nerf this is the most ridiculous thing ever. Auto-mining, MBS, clever rally point, one infinity group. And now this? Blizzard has been telling us that they want to make SC2 a great E-sport, and it seems that their balance team just want to take out every last things that make a master seperate from the mass. Guess what next time, may be the game will start to make units for you so that your minerals is never gonna surpass 200. Macro god anyone :D Do you seriously think players with 300apm right now are doing everything? I just can't understand why some players think what makes a strategy game player good is babysitting his mineral line.
What make a player good is the ability to do as much things as possible macro wise and still manage to have some awesome army micro(flanking/drop/engage etc...).
In your words, it would be: A player that be able to babysitting his minerals line AND do all others things at the same time.
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On February 26 2011 12:39 Apolo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. No it doesn't, unless it's just marines. But storm is the other counter of bio, marines in special, along with colossus. Either way, don't rely on tier 1 units for the whole game. Go mech and your problem is solved.
With proper scouting a Protoss can avoid the HT tech path and go robo,gateway,stargate. So no "the problem is not solved".
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I would prefer a slight colossus nerf rather than a HT nerf though. HT are so much more interesting units
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On February 26 2011 12:38 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:35 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:32 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:29 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:28 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters. Marines counter mutalisks? I fail to see the point. I start to think you're trolling... Marines can hit air. A Ghost renders a HT useless with a single ranged AoE spell. A HT kills an entire bio army with a single ranged AoE spell. That's why its 200/200. Ghosts also cost 100 min extra That's the awesome thing about EMP, it deals the damage instantly, Storm doesn't. I'd be more than willing to pay an extra 100 minerals to give my HTs a nonretarded speed and the ability to actually shoot things.
I take my energyless 50/150 templar after they storm and morph them into an 360 hp meatshield (which was also somewhat nerfed by this patch).
Energyless templar and ghosts both have usefulness.
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I Just want to say its the "PTR" public test realm they are testing the patch.
If you feel the your selected race is "broke" by this patch now play on the PTR and show blizzard how "broke" where they can changes.
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On February 26 2011 12:38 FabledIntegral wrote:
Honestly, I was hoping for something like "Psi storm tech cost reduced from 200/200 to 150/150. Khadarian Amulet cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/150, gives +15 energy instead of +25.
Would be a way to make templar much more accessible but not "imma warp in some templar and insta storm you," retarded ability that everyone minus extremely biased Protoss players think is flat out stupid.
I agree. The 40 seconds HTs have to wait now before casting 1 spell might be a bit huge. Instead of more starting energy a higher regen rate as a research might have been fine as well.
edit: sorry I'm stupid, misread your post
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On February 26 2011 12:23 Dommk wrote:
Eh, who even needs alerts? Spawn Larva eventually becomes ingrained as muscle memory, you aren't going to notice the alert when something important is going on.
It'll help out everyone below Diamond, maybe even Masters.
On February 26 2011 12:23 Dommk wrote:
And if you actually want to Chronoboost something non-stop, it isn't that hard at all, most people already know the timings in their head, I doubt the alert will even do anything (if it is the same as all the other alerts, being some small icon on the top left hand side of your screen, which I never ever notice) Most people = 5% of players?
This will help lower level players (whore are actually more likely to read the text messages on the side due to the lower overall speed), but won't have a big impact on the pros. Good changes increasing the accessibility of the game for the larger masses.
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EPT
