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On March 01 2011 00:29 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 23:57 dafnay wrote:On February 28 2011 23:53 kickinhead wrote:
I really have no Idea what Blizzard is doing atm. cuz the balance-changes are just hilarious, there are soooo many obvious things Blizzard NEEDS to improve, yet they make those arbitrary changes no1 asked for...
What I think is just blatantly obvious and needs to be changed asap:
- Collossi VS Zerg: either buff corruptors or nerf Collossi, one of them just needs to be done!
- Neural parasite: Almost everyone agrees that the speel is too weak atm.
- Hunter Seeker Missile: Have we ever seen this one used in the last few months? Why doesn't Blizzard change it if it's obivously completely useless?
- Ultras are too weak
- Zerg T3 is extremely weak, especially with Ultras being nerfed and Broodlords aren't that good either against most Lategame-compositions. In addition to that, Zerg has the weakest Maxed out Army anyways.
- Protoss Deathball: Sth. needs to be done about Collossi+VR's+Stalkers, maybe buff Corruptors or sth. like that.
- Hydras: They are just completely useless offensively in most situations and get sooo easily hard-countered by Collossi - it's just not balanced anymore.
- Carriers: C'mon Blizzard - no1 uses them, there is obivously sth. wrong with them! wtf? corrupt are already very effective against colossi -.- Yes, if you build 20 Corruptors VS 5 Collossi, the Protoss doesn't know how to micro, has not enough VR's in his deathball and if you are willing to loose to the Protoss' ground army with nothing but corruptors left, then yeah - they are pretty effective.
If P is going Colo/VR his supporting ground army isn't going to matter, because it will be pathetic. That's why investing heavily in air to kill the colo/vr off, then rallying to clean up the smattering of stalker/sentry is one of the best ways to handle it.
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Well, nothing is final yet. I seriously hope Blizz doesn't take out the Amulet completely, but there definitely needs to be a change. I wasn't a BW player, but KA was there too, right? Didn't it just increase the base and max energy? I think that would be a good compromise. You wouldn't be able to insta-storm and Toss players would have a reason to warp HTs in early.
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On March 01 2011 00:42 Tabriss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2011 00:37 SpiZe wrote:
I want to talk about the amulet upgrade idea that I stole from the Bliz forums. Ghost have an upgrade to increase starting energy, Infestor does too. Why not Templars?
Its because instant Warp+Storm is far more powerfull than an EMP or a FG. + Ghosts/Infestors need 40/50 sec of built time, a Warp is only 5 sec. You can kill instantly an entire army with 2/3 storms.. What do you except to do with 2/3 EMP or FG ?
Lets be serious here though, without storm the protoss army stands no chance against T1 units from terran. So a single EMP can wipe out all energy on HT and leave the entire toss army to die. At least you can dodge storms or emp them. Feedback range is too short, and is targeted not AOE like EMP.
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Doesn't feedback always win from an EMP? EMP isn't actually instant and the 1 range doesn't seem to make a difference in games.
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On March 01 2011 00:54 Tabriss wrote:
Like you never saw a hydras, mutas or bioball army die in a heartbit with some storms. Anyway the problem is not the storm itself, it's balanced no problem with that, and I'm not agree to remove the Amulet. Decrease the amulet to +25 to +15 or even +20 could be enough.
The thing that bothers me is to be able of warp instantly in the middle of a fight a unit which can burst like hell. No way than a Terran or zerg is able to do the same.
No, Zerg and Terran can't warp in units in battle but Zerg can do a 300 food push and both armies will straight out destroy a protoss army without either colossus or templar...and if this goes through it's basically down to colossus.
I wouldn't be surprised if the number of pro and high level players playing terran jumped again - with Toss players jumping ship if this change is implemented.
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The problem is not the storm itself. All the concerns are about to warp a unit and instantly be able to storm.
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On March 01 2011 01:26 Tabriss wrote:
The problem is not the storm itself. All the concerns are about to warp a unit and instantly be able to storm.
Exactley! Finally someone posted the real problem.
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On March 01 2011 01:26 Tabriss wrote:
The problem is not the storm itself. All the concerns are about to warp a unit and instantly be able to storm.
i doubt a Terran going Mech Thors Lategame is gonna be bothered much by Storm 
so the strengh of storms come from using mass T1 (Terran) and mass T2 (Zerg) with high efficiency but low hp.
Warp-In or Not, this isn't gonna change the outcome of fights where Storm is used, when your opponent still insists in using low hp units it will only Delay it.
While giving Protoss alot less variety in the builds they can play.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
Gosh this amulet upgrade is necessary and yet hurts so much.
What if they changed the upgrade. Something similar to "consume" from BW.
maybe a "charging" ability, where the HT goes into trance-mode and has like 50% extra mana regen, but takes extra damage (like when it's warping in)
is that too W3?
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Either make warp in time longer or make amulet starting energy 20 maybe even 15 instead of 25, that way when you do warp in you can't instantly storm but it's still viable to get HT's in your army comp and do "storm drops". Nerfing the entire upgrade is too overboard.
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On March 01 2011 01:46 Live2Win wrote:
Gosh this amulet upgrade is necessary and yet hurts so much.
What if they changed the upgrade. Something similar to "consume" from BW.
maybe a "charging" ability, where the HT goes into trance-mode and has like 50% extra mana regen, but takes extra damage (like when it's warping in)
is that too W3?
FYI units don't take extra damage from warping in. that was changed (secretly). But yeah it is a bit warcraft 3 ish. They should honestly just put in the amulet from bw...
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On March 01 2011 01:46 Live2Win wrote:
Gosh this amulet upgrade is necessary and yet hurts so much.
What if they changed the upgrade. Something similar to "consume" from BW.
maybe a "charging" ability, where the HT goes into trance-mode and has like 50% extra mana regen, but takes extra damage (like when it's warping in)
is that too W3?
This sounds excellent, and there have been a couple of other very good suggestions both in this thread and other threads (like the Amulet Math Thread).
But I'm afraid that Blizzard is avoiding "gameplay mechanic" changes at all costs. Practically all patch changes to this date have been about switching numbers around (reduce armor here, increase build time there, add research requirement etc.) with the rare exception of the corruptor/overseer change in beta and projectile->instant and back this time.
If this is for good reason or not is your's to decide. I for one would certainly welcome a drastic change like introducing new abilites, but they (as in David Kim and the dudes in the balance team) probably have a very good reason not to do this now that Beta is over. Heart of the Swarm is not that far away and they're probably trying to minimize potential damage until they have a better opportunity to make these kinds of drastic changes with HotS. Numbers are probably easier to adjust and test, and I wouldn't be surprised if they actually already spent a lot of their working time talking about these kinds of changes with HotS.
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On March 01 2011 01:54 Iggnite wrote:
Either make warp in time longer or make amulet starting energy 20 maybe even 15 instead of 25, that way when you do warp in you can't instantly storm but it's still viable to get HT's in your army comp and do "storm drops". Nerfing the entire upgrade is too overboard.
Yep that's what I said some pages ago.. Actually, that's the best compromise.
Remove the amulet will break this unit like it breaks the reaper with the requiring factory upgrade...
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What about making it cost 100/100 and upping the HT energy to 65 or 70, instead of 75?
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On March 01 2011 01:25 Reborn58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2011 00:54 Tabriss wrote:
Like you never saw a hydras, mutas or bioball army die in a heartbit with some storms. Anyway the problem is not the storm itself, it's balanced no problem with that, and I'm not agree to remove the Amulet. Decrease the amulet to +25 to +15 or even +20 could be enough.
The thing that bothers me is to be able of warp instantly in the middle of a fight a unit which can burst like hell. No way than a Terran or zerg is able to do the same. No, Zerg and Terran can't warp in units in battle but Zerg can do a 300 food push and both armies will straight out destroy a protoss army without either colossus or templar...and if this goes through it's basically down to colossus. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of pro and high level players playing terran jumped again - with Toss players jumping ship if this change is implemented.
I don't agree, a zvp at max food goes like this: Toss deathball obliterates the zergarmy in a matter of seconds and toss is down to maybe 170-180 food vs 100ish for zerg. Now zerg is rallying new troops to the battlefield but since they come from five different hatches they can't regrp since toss is smart and blocks the rally path, which makes it even easier for the tossball to wipe the reinforcements.
Even if the zerg can perfectly rally reinforcements they still stand next to no chance vs ball of death.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51084 Posts
On March 01 2011 01:46 Live2Win wrote:
Gosh this amulet upgrade is necessary and yet hurts so much.
What if they changed the upgrade. Something similar to "consume" from BW.
maybe a "charging" ability, where the HT goes into trance-mode and has like 50% extra mana regen, but takes extra damage (like when it's warping in)
is that too W3?
They should have consume,honestly paying 50(minimum) minerals to cast storm is much better than warping in with free storm.
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On March 01 2011 02:08 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2011 01:46 Live2Win wrote:
Gosh this amulet upgrade is necessary and yet hurts so much.
What if they changed the upgrade. Something similar to "consume" from BW.
maybe a "charging" ability, where the HT goes into trance-mode and has like 50% extra mana regen, but takes extra damage (like when it's warping in)
is that too W3? They should have consume,honestly paying 50(minimum) minerals to cast storm is much better than warping in with free storm.
Research Martyrdom, 1.5 second cast time
Templars gain 25 energy upon use but will cause the templar to burn up and take 5dmg per second until death. Salvagable by merging into archons
Solution.
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How bout making Templars start at 70 energy instead of 75?
And plz add some sort of upgrade for archons
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I'd love to see a +1 range 100/100 upgrade for immortals at the robo support bay, a +1 range upgrade for archons at the templar archive. A movement speed upgrade for the mothership (maybe the mass recall could actually be used in the late game), I'd also like to see stalkers get +2 per attack upgrade, and shield upgrades reduced to 100/100. Maybe a carrier upgrade to hold more fighters (like in bw). More options are always a good thing. How bout an amulet for sentries at the twilight (more starting energy or faster charge up)
None of these would require any mechanic update, they are all changes to unit stats.
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To be honest, I've always hated the amulet because it takes so long to upgrade. Just getting rid of it completely is like one less thing to worry about. But I feel like they should add something else to compensate. Maybe up the templar's normal starting energy by 10 or something.
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EPT
