|
GENERAL
- Players can no longer hide units by setting them in a close proximity patrol (Viking flower).
^ My Response:
+ Show Spoiler +I like this. I hate how the air stacking mechanic works right now. I am on the side of the fence that thinks its just broken. It doesn't make any sense to me.
PROTOSS
Mothership
- Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.
^ My Response:
+ Show Spoiler +This is a step in the right direction. Vortex is wildly broken right now.
High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.
^ My Response:
+ Show Spoiler +This was on par iwth the most OP upgrade in the game, for sure. Anyone upset about this being removed is simply a Protoss fanboy. And no it does not turn the HT into a defensive structure, that is pure silliness. Templar tech is ridiculously amazing, and it still will be.
Zealot
- Charging Zealots will now hit fleeing targets at least once.
^ My Response:
+ Show Spoiler +I like this. Zealot Charge is already really, really good, but I can agree with at least one guaranteed hit.
TERRAN
Battlecruiser
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
^ My Response:
+ Show Spoiler +You might actually see BCs used in a game now. This will certainly help them not get ultra-countered by Protoss and Zerg instantly.
Bunker
- Build time increased from 35 to 40 seconds.
^ My Response: A Must Read
+ Show Spoiler +This is a perfect example of a balance problem. The bunker is a prett essential defensive structure in many scenarios, but it is also used offensively. So, it is really hard to balance it for both functions.
(1) With the 30 second build time you could barely get a bunker up if you scouted a rush, or needed to block an all-in counter attack.
(2) 30 second build time was pretty tough to hold in some bunker rush scenarios.
(3) At 40 seconds an on-call defensive bunker is now impossible on every map. If you don't preemptively build the bunker you don't have one. End of story.
(4) This will make offensive bunkers much less useful in early game.
Bunker mechanics are almost as broken as Force Field - almost.
Tech Lab
- Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds.
^ My Response:
+ Show Spoiler +Lol. Terran nerfs ... So funny. Protoss and Zerg have extremely reasonable options to blocking this one play; the stim rush.
ZERG
Infestor
- Health increased from 90 to 110.
Fungal Growth
- Stun duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds.
- Damage increased by +30% vs. armored units.
- Now fires a missile instead of being instant cast.
^ My Response:
+ Show Spoiler +I'm actually concerned about this. It's arguable, but the Infestor is probably the most powerful spellcaster in the game, and Fungal Growth is one of the main reasons for this. The Stun Duration nerf is absolutely needed, but a 30% increase in damage to armored might be a little out of line.
I think this is probably because of one game unit: The Stalker.
QUESTION: That has to mean it deals the damage 100% faster, right? That's a HUUUUUGE buff.
QUESTION:
They mention the season restart several times. When is that happening? Any one know?
|
[ + Show Spoiler +B]On March 01 2011 03:37 TimeSpiral wrote: GENERAL
- Players can no longer hide units by setting them in a close proximity patrol (Viking flower). ^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +I like this. I hate how the air stacking mechanic works right now. I am on the side of the fence that thinks its just broken. It doesn't make any sense to me.
PROTOSS
Mothership
- Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.
^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +This is a step in the right direction. Vortex is wildly broken right now. High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed. ^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +This was on par iwth the most OP upgrade in the game, for sure. Anyone upset about this being removed is simply a Protoss fanboy. And no it does not turn the HT into a defensive structure, that is pure silliness. Templar tech is ridiculously amazing, and it still will be. Zealot
- Charging Zealots will now hit fleeing targets at least once. ^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +I like this. Zealot Charge is already really, really good, but I can agree with at least one guaranteed hit. TERRAN
Battlecruiser
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +You might actually see BCs used in a game now. This will certainly help them not get ultra-countered by Protoss and Zerg instantly.
Bunker
- Build time increased from 35 to 40 seconds.
^ My Response: A Must Read+ Show Spoiler +This is a perfect example of a balance problem. The bunker is a prett essential defensive structure in many scenarios, but it is also used offensively. So, it is really hard to balance it for both functions.
(1) With the 30 second build time you could barely get a bunker up if you scouted a rush, or needed to block an all-in counter attack.
(2) 30 second build time was pretty tough to hold in some bunker rush scenarios.
(3) At 40 seconds an on-call defensive bunker is now impossible on every map. If you don't preemptively build the bunker you don't have one. End of story.
(4) This will make offensive bunkers much less useful in early game.
Bunker mechanics are almost as broken as Force Field - almost. Tech Lab
- Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds.
^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +Lol. Terran nerfs ... So funny. Protoss and Zerg have extremely reasonable options to blocking this one play; the stim rush. ZERG
Infestor
- Health increased from 90 to 110.
Fungal Growth
- Stun duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds.
- Damage increased by +30% vs. armored units.
- Now fires a missile instead of being instant cast. ^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +I'm actually concerned about this. It's arguable, but the Infestor is probably the most powerful spellcaster in the game, and Fungal Growth is one of the main reasons for this. The Stun Duration nerf is absolutely needed, but a 30% increase in damage to armored might be a little out of line.
I think this is probably because of one game unit: The Stalker.
QUESTION: That has to mean it deals the damage 100% faster, right? That's a HUUUUUGE buff. They mention the season restart several times. When is that happening? Any one know?
yep he's a terran
|
On March 01 2011 03:47 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +[ + Show Spoiler +B]On March 01 2011 03:37 TimeSpiral wrote: GENERAL
- Players can no longer hide units by setting them in a close proximity patrol (Viking flower). ^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +I like this. I hate how the air stacking mechanic works right now. I am on the side of the fence that thinks its just broken. It doesn't make any sense to me.
PROTOSS
Mothership
- Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.
^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +This is a step in the right direction. Vortex is wildly broken right now. High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed. ^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +This was on par iwth the most OP upgrade in the game, for sure. Anyone upset about this being removed is simply a Protoss fanboy. And no it does not turn the HT into a defensive structure, that is pure silliness. Templar tech is ridiculously amazing, and it still will be. Zealot
- Charging Zealots will now hit fleeing targets at least once. ^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +I like this. Zealot Charge is already really, really good, but I can agree with at least one guaranteed hit. TERRAN
Battlecruiser
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +You might actually see BCs used in a game now. This will certainly help them not get ultra-countered by Protoss and Zerg instantly.
Bunker
- Build time increased from 35 to 40 seconds.
^ My Response: A Must Read+ Show Spoiler +This is a perfect example of a balance problem. The bunker is a prett essential defensive structure in many scenarios, but it is also used offensively. So, it is really hard to balance it for both functions.
(1) With the 30 second build time you could barely get a bunker up if you scouted a rush, or needed to block an all-in counter attack.
(2) 30 second build time was pretty tough to hold in some bunker rush scenarios.
(3) At 40 seconds an on-call defensive bunker is now impossible on every map. If you don't preemptively build the bunker you don't have one. End of story.
(4) This will make offensive bunkers much less useful in early game.
Bunker mechanics are almost as broken as Force Field - almost. Tech Lab
- Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds.
^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +Lol. Terran nerfs ... So funny. Protoss and Zerg have extremely reasonable options to blocking this one play; the stim rush. ZERG
Infestor
- Health increased from 90 to 110.
Fungal Growth
- Stun duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds.
- Damage increased by +30% vs. armored units.
- Now fires a missile instead of being instant cast. ^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +I'm actually concerned about this. It's arguable, but the Infestor is probably the most powerful spellcaster in the game, and Fungal Growth is one of the main reasons for this. The Stun Duration nerf is absolutely needed, but a 30% increase in damage to armored might be a little out of line.
I think this is probably because of one game unit: The Stalker.
QUESTION: That has to mean it deals the damage 100% faster, right? That's a HUUUUUGE buff. They mention the season restart several times. When is that happening? Any one know? yep he's a terran [/B]
That's correct.
|
On March 01 2011 02:59 Robo_Ian wrote:
Bro #1 -" Hey, you know what seems like a great idea"
Bro #2 -" What?"
Bro #1 -" Lets make Marines fly and stim is autocast, which also does no damage"
Bro #2 -" That sounds great!"
Welcome to the Blizzard balancing team.
More like welcome to the Rumble in the Bronze. Really, gtfo.
|
I really dislike this patch in general, but the Zealot charge change is stupid. It's so rare to see someone take charge off autocast on zealots and actually use it effectively (actually can't think of a Toss pro I've seen do it). Now, it certainly doesn't need to be used manually.
The Terran and Zerg changes seem pretty random as well... did fungal need a nerf? that added damage is pretty useless, and 20hp on a caster unit is also really tiny.
EDIT Also hate the Vortex change. It may have been unfair, but at least it gave archons a single use in the game...
|
if you press spacebar after the macro alerts does it auto set camera to the hatches?
|
This is a perfect example of a balance problem. The bunker is a prett essential defensive structure in many scenarios, but it is also used offensively. So, it is really hard to balance it for both functions.
(1) With the 30 second build time you could barely get a bunker up if you scouted a rush, or needed to block an all-in counter attack.
(2) 30 second build time was pretty tough to hold in some bunker rush scenarios.
(3) At 40 seconds an on-call defensive bunker is now impossible on every map. If you don't preemptively build the bunker you don't have one. End of story.
(4) This will make offensive bunkers much less useful in early game.
Bunker mechanics are almost as broken as Force Field - almost.
since terrans have the option of building PFs at there most vulnerable expansions they hardly have need for bunkers mid and late game. also terrans have a little ability called "salvage" so its pretty much a no brainer to put bunkers down early at ur expansion even if a rush isnt coming. you get 100% of your money back in a refund.... 40 second build time is good for how powerful a bunker truly is for how low of a cost it is. and on top of that low cost its 100% refundable.
ya 40 seconds is nothing.
I'm actually concerned about this. It's arguable, but the Infestor is probably the most powerful spellcaster in the game, and Fungal Growth is one of the main reasons for this. The Stun Duration nerf is absolutely needed, but a 30% increase in damage to armored might be a little out of line.
I think this is probably because of one game unit: The Stalker.
QUESTION: That has to mean it deals the damage 100% faster, right? That's a HUUUUUGE buff.
no its not such a huge buff as u think.... DO NOT let the 30% increase to armored units fool u. if u used infestors on PTR then u would know that the knew fungal is almost useless. stalkers and blink stalkers can dodge fungal SO EASILY that its almost a joke to use it against them if the toss player is even half decent. a biobal of stimmed marines/marauders can also dodge it if the terran player has good control. u might catch a few marines/units but the terran can still split units to lessen dmg.
so to get a successfull fungal off u have to catch the army by surprise. however if u do catch them and u have enough fungals then the dps would be very good. so its not a huuge buff and the 4 second reduction in duration is a obvious nerf since fungal was mainly used to stop units rather then deal damage. imo this change to fungal was to make infestors more of a damage caster for zerg similar to defilier and plauge in BW.
if u have enough infestors and can actually catch a army then it can be pretty insane dps for zerg. but again, catching a army with the new fungal is the problem...
|
I think a good solution to the problem Templar / Ghost dynamic (or lack of there of as Ghost shuts down the templar without insta storm more easily) would be to reduce the amulet from +25 to +20 energy and give feed more range, like 11. And then play with the templars sight range by increasing it or maybe a ghost upgrade to sight, like range 13 or 15. That way a new tension will arrise as the armies position has to defend the casters even more carefully. Also the sight range for the ghosts could prove a nice addition to TvT.
|
On March 01 2011 03:54 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +This is a perfect example of a balance problem. The bunker is a prett essential defensive structure in many scenarios, but it is also used offensively. So, it is really hard to balance it for both functions.
(1) With the 30 second build time you could barely get a bunker up if you scouted a rush, or needed to block an all-in counter attack.
(2) 30 second build time was pretty tough to hold in some bunker rush scenarios.
(3) At 40 seconds an on-call defensive bunker is now impossible on every map. If you don't preemptively build the bunker you don't have one. End of story.
(4) This will make offensive bunkers much less useful in early game.
Bunker mechanics are almost as broken as Force Field - almost. since terrans have the option of building PFs at there most vulnerable expansions they hardly have need for bunkers mid and late game. also terrans have a little ability called "salvage" so its pretty much a no brainer to put bunkers down early at ur expansion even if a rush isnt coming. you get 100% of your money back in a refund.... 40 second build time is good for how powerful a bunker truly is for how low of a cost it is. and on top of that low cost its 100% refundable. ya 40 seconds is nothing. Show nested quote +I'm actually concerned about this. It's arguable, but the Infestor is probably the most powerful spellcaster in the game, and Fungal Growth is one of the main reasons for this. The Stun Duration nerf is absolutely needed, but a 30% increase in damage to armored might be a little out of line.
I think this is probably because of one game unit: The Stalker.
QUESTION: That has to mean it deals the damage 100% faster, right? That's a HUUUUUGE buff. no its not such a huge buff as u think.... DO NOT let the 30% increase to armored units fool u. if u used infestors on PTR then u would know that the knew fungal is almost useless. stalkers and blink stalkers can dodge fungal SO EASILY that its almost a joke to use it against them if the toss player is even half decent. a biobal of stimmed marines/marauders can also dodge it if the terran player has good control. u might catch a few marines/units but the terran can still split units to lessen dmg. so to get a successfull fungal off u have to catch the army by surprise. however if u do catch them and u have enough fungals then the dps would be very good. so its not a huuge buff and the 4 second reduction in duration is a obvious nerf since fungal was mainly used to stop units rather then deal damage. imo this change to fungal was to make infestors more of a damage caster for zerg similar to defilier and plauge in BW. if u have enough infestors and can actually catch a army then it can be pretty insane dps for zerg. but again, catching a army with the new fungal is the problem...
RE: Bunker
I'm only really concerned about early-game and mid-game transition scenarios, really. Nobody is building a PF until base number three. The bunker is "powerful" because it is the only static defensive building in the game that requires active supply to attack ground units.
The refund is nice, of course, but you still spend the money and it is gone until you salvage. So in early game bunkers significantly delay your BO.
I prefer unit based defense in early game, which means I cannot tech. I just don't trust nor do I like relying on bunkers. Protoss lols at bunkers, but they are good versus Zerg.
RE: Fungal
Do you honestly think Fungal was fine the way it was? Some sort of nerf was absolutely necessary imo. As I said, I'm concerned about this change. I'm not sure if it was the right one. Reducing stun is a step in the right direction.
I really dislike the manipulation spells in this game. They just seem really hard to balance for both offensive and defensive purposes.
|
On February 28 2011 23:53 kickinhead wrote:
I really have no Idea what Blizzard is doing atm. cuz the balance-changes are just hilarious, there are soooo many obvious things Blizzard NEEDS to improve, yet they make those arbitrary changes no1 asked for...
What I think is just blatantly obvious and needs to be changed asap:
- Collossi VS Zerg: either buff corruptors or nerf Collossi, one of them just needs to be done!
- Neural parasite: Almost everyone agrees that the speel is too weak atm.
- Hunter Seeker Missile: Have we ever seen this one used in the last few months? Why doesn't Blizzard change it if it's obivously completely useless?
- Ultras are too weak
- Zerg T3 is extremely weak, especially with Ultras being nerfed and Broodlords aren't that good either against most Lategame-compositions. In addition to that, Zerg has the weakest Maxed out Army anyways.
- Protoss Deathball: Sth. needs to be done about Collossi+VR's+Stalkers, maybe buff Corruptors or sth. like that.
- Hydras: They are just completely useless offensively in most situations and get sooo easily hard-countered by Collossi - it's just not balanced anymore.
- Carriers: C'mon Blizzard - no1 uses them, there is obivously sth. wrong with them!
1.) Collossi vs zerg- Corruptors are fine so long as you aren't playing on steps of war and correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't see that on the ladder last I checked...
2.) NP has its use. Just not with the current metagame.http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4777942/
3.) HSM is a good spell its not a problem with the spell its a problem with the metagame. Right now in every MU there are better things to spend your gas on unless you need mobile detection. So if you only have 1 raven with your force then PDD is likely to be a better choice.
4-5.) Ultras/BLs have their use.
6.) Collossi/VRay vs zerg seems to be the problem if any but I think it should be played around with some more.
7.) Hydras- are really just a dps unit and antiair they appear to me that they are fulfilling their role very well.
8.) On 2 separate streams yesterday (linked via teamliquid) I saw carriers. One terran player was painuser the other terran player I forget off the top of my head. The carrier play found itself useful against a mech composition and infantry composition.
On March 01 2011 02:50 ExoD wrote:
WTB BW PROTOSS PST!
I'm really starting to dislike sc2 Protoss, and blizzard keeps making it worse and worse.
Why is colossi the only way to go still? I expected a HT buff not a nerf
Like has already been said before in this thread if you expected a HT buff then you haven't been paying attention very much. We have known since blizzcon that blizzard intended to nerf the HT. Was the removal of the amulet the right change? Either side has merit whether you answer yes or no.
|
My primary issue with the Templar nerf is that it was unecessary. TvP was perfectly balanced at that time. Terrans had just as much chance to win. Of course the ability to warp in a storm is powerful, really powerful. I'm not gonna contest that, but that doesn't change the fact that Terran can in fact counter this. With the Ghost, the Ghost does exactly what it is supposed to do in removing the templar from the equation. In addition to that it provides a little extra oomph to the bio ball in weakening that Toss army a bit.
Forcing them to fall back or engage in a bad spot, nothing broken there just the Ghost doing its job. The Ghost should be strong and so should the Templar. This nerf is unnecessary, fixing something that is not broken. Plenty of pro and non pro Terrans win, and I'm certain an equal number of Toss do (although in Korea that number is skewed as fewer players play Protoss in the GSL Code S. Not sure why, but they love Terran).
TvP is fine imo, there are some minor things that could use a looking at on both sides. But I think as long as we get insta storms them having EMP with no research is fine. Or the PDD.
If you Terrans find yourselves in a situation where Tier one bio is having problems, don't forget you have an entire tech tree to explore as well as two dynamite spell casters. TLO has proven time and time again that Hunter Seeker missiles are in fact viable to use, and a billion ladder players (lol@billion) have proven that PDD is in fact glorious to use vs Toss.
Make use of your Ravens and Ghosts, I find it hilarious that people complain about Protoss spellcasters when they are unwilling to invest in their own. Gateway units are weak and thus we need FFs. I love hearing people say they would have won without FFs, if FFs are so powerful to you then employ your spellcaster that can render others useless. It will always be dicey but the idea of balance is that there is no instant win button. The idea of Balance is that if you are better you win and if not you lose. So quit A-Moving Marauders/Marines into Toss forces and complaining about FFs and Storms. I don't complain about being EMPed or dropped on, or Banshee'd. If I am unprepared for a Terran attack that is my fault not his.
|
On March 01 2011 04:10 Incursus wrote:
My primary issue with the Templar nerf is that it was unecessary. TvP was perfectly balanced at that time. Terrans had just as much chance to win. Of course the ability to warp in a storm is powerful, really powerful. I'm not gonna contest that, but that doesn't change the fact that Terran can in fact counter this. With the Ghost, the Ghost does exactly what it is supposed to do in removing the templar from the equation. In addition to that it provides a little extra oomph to the bio ball in weakening that Toss army a bit.
Forcing them to fall back or engage in a bad spot, nothing broken there just the Ghost doing its job. The Ghost should be strong and so should the Templar. This nerf is unnecessary, fixing something that is not broken. Plenty of pro and non pro Terrans win, and I'm certain an equal number of Toss do (although in Korea that number is skewed as fewer players play Protoss in the GSL Code S. Not sure why, but they love Terran).
TvP is fine imo, there are some minor things that could use a looking at on both sides. But I think as long as we get insta storms them having EMP with no research is fine. Or the PDD.
If you Terrans find yourselves in a situation where Tier one bio is having problems, don't forget you have an entire tech tree to explore as well as two dynamite spell casters. TLO has proven time and time again that Hunter Seeker missiles are in fact viable to use, and a billion ladder players (lol@billion) have proven that PDD is in fact glorious to use vs Toss.
Make use of your Ravens and Ghosts, I find it hilarious that people complain about Protoss spellcasters when they are unwilling to invest in their own. Gateway units are weak and thus we need FFs. I love hearing people say they would have won without FFs, if FFs are so powerful to you then employ your spellcaster that can render others useless. It will always be dicey but the idea of balance is that there is no instant win button. The idea of Balance is that if you are better you win and if not you lose. So quit A-Moving Marauders/Marines into Toss forces and complaining about FFs and Storms. I don't complain about being EMPed or dropped on, or Banshee'd. If I am unprepared for a Terran attack that is my fault not his.
amen
someone know if theire are people streaming from the PTR-area?
|
On March 01 2011 04:10 Incursus wrote:
My primary issue with the Templar nerf is that it was unecessary. TvP was perfectly balanced at that time. Terrans had just as much chance to win. Of course the ability to warp in a storm is powerful, really powerful. I'm not gonna contest that, but that doesn't change the fact that Terran can in fact counter this. With the Ghost, the Ghost does exactly what it is supposed to do in removing the templar from the equation. In addition to that it provides a little extra oomph to the bio ball in weakening that Toss army a bit.
Forcing them to fall back or engage in a bad spot, nothing broken there just the Ghost doing its job. The Ghost should be strong and so should the Templar. This nerf is unnecessary, fixing something that is not broken. Plenty of pro and non pro Terrans win, and I'm certain an equal number of Toss do (although in Korea that number is skewed as fewer players play Protoss in the GSL Code S. Not sure why, but they love Terran).
TvP is fine imo, there are some minor things that could use a looking at on both sides. But I think as long as we get insta storms them having EMP with no research is fine. Or the PDD.
If you Terrans find yourselves in a situation where Tier one bio is having problems, don't forget you have an entire tech tree to explore as well as two dynamite spell casters. TLO has proven time and time again that Hunter Seeker missiles are in fact viable to use, and a billion ladder players (lol@billion) have proven that PDD is in fact glorious to use vs Toss.
Make use of your Ravens and Ghosts, I find it hilarious that people complain about Protoss spellcasters when they are unwilling to invest in their own. Gateway units are weak and thus we need FFs. I love hearing people say they would have won without FFs, if FFs are so powerful to you then employ your spellcaster that can render others useless. It will always be dicey but the idea of balance is that there is no instant win button. The idea of Balance is that if you are better you win and if not you lose. So quit A-Moving Marauders/Marines into Toss forces and complaining about FFs and Storms. I don't complain about being EMPed or dropped on, or Banshee'd. If I am unprepared for a Terran attack that is my fault not his.
This post starts off seeming okay, then quickly becomes borderline ban-worthy.
|
So it seems that most people agree on two things.
1. Protoss and Zerg’s late game is very strong and difficult to deal with for Terran.
2. Terran’s early game is strong and is difficult for Protoss and Zerg (zerg more so) to deal with.
And in my mind, the balance changes don’t really address either one of these points.
|
On March 01 2011 04:30 p1cKLes wrote:
So it seems that most people agree on two things.
1. Protoss and Zerg’s late game is very strong and difficult to deal with for Terran.
2. Terran’s early game is strong and is difficult for Protoss and Zerg (zerg more so) to deal with.
And in my mind, the balance changes don’t really address either one of these points.
Well, removal of the Amulet upgrade nerfs Protoss late game.
Increasing Stim Pack research time nerfs Terran early game.
|
Without instant storm Protoss late game is indeed nerfed.
I don't myself feel Terran getting the stim nerf will solve the issue of T early game. It just means that the timing push is delayed, which for Protoss is fabulous because we will have more units and Sentry energy when the attack comes. I don't know if it will help Zerg at all seeing as I don't play Zerg. I don't feel qualified to comment on it.
|
On March 01 2011 03:37 TimeSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +GENERAL
- Players can no longer hide units by setting them in a close proximity patrol (Viking flower). ^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +I like this. I hate how the air stacking mechanic works right now. I am on the side of the fence that thinks its just broken. It doesn't make any sense to me. Show nested quote +
PROTOSS
Mothership
- Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.
^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +This is a step in the right direction. Vortex is wildly broken right now. Show nested quote +High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed. ^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +This was on par iwth the most OP upgrade in the game, for sure. Anyone upset about this being removed is simply a Protoss fanboy. And no it does not turn the HT into a defensive structure, that is pure silliness. Templar tech is ridiculously amazing, and it still will be. I like this. Zealot Charge is already really, really good, but I can agree with at least one guaranteed hit. You might actually see BCs used in a game now. This will certainly help them not get ultra-countered by Protoss and Zerg instantly. This is a perfect example of a balance problem. The bunker is a prett essential defensive structure in many scenarios, but it is also used offensively. So, it is really hard to balance it for both functions.
(1) With the 30 second build time you could barely get a bunker up if you scouted a rush, or needed to block an all-in counter attack.
(2) 30 second build time was pretty tough to hold in some bunker rush scenarios.
(3) At 40 seconds an on-call defensive bunker is now impossible on every map. If you don't preemptively build the bunker you don't have one. End of story.
(4) This will make offensive bunkers much less useful in early game.
Bunker mechanics are almost as broken as Force Field - almost. Lol. Terran nerfs ... So funny. Protoss and Zerg have extremely reasonable options to blocking this one play; the stim rush. Show nested quote +ZERG
Infestor
- Health increased from 90 to 110.
Fungal Growth
- Stun duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds.
- Damage increased by +30% vs. armored units.
- Now fires a missile instead of being instant cast. ^ My Response:+ Show Spoiler +I'm actually concerned about this. It's arguable, but the Infestor is probably the most powerful spellcaster in the game, and Fungal Growth is one of the main reasons for this. The Stun Duration nerf is absolutely needed, but a 30% increase in damage to armored might be a little out of line.
I think this is probably because of one game unit: The Stalker.
QUESTION: That has to mean it deals the damage 100% faster, right? That's a HUUUUUGE buff. Show nested quote +They mention the season restart several times. When is that happening? Any one know?
Agreed. I can't believe how many QQs are going around here. The only thing I thought blizz missed in this patch was something to do with ZvP colossus. Either a corrupter buff or a colossus nerf.
|
On March 01 2011 04:08 TimeSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2011 03:54 Ballistixz wrote:This is a perfect example of a balance problem. The bunker is a prett essential defensive structure in many scenarios, but it is also used offensively. So, it is really hard to balance it for both functions.
(1) With the 30 second build time you could barely get a bunker up if you scouted a rush, or needed to block an all-in counter attack.
(2) 30 second build time was pretty tough to hold in some bunker rush scenarios.
(3) At 40 seconds an on-call defensive bunker is now impossible on every map. If you don't preemptively build the bunker you don't have one. End of story.
(4) This will make offensive bunkers much less useful in early game.
Bunker mechanics are almost as broken as Force Field - almost. since terrans have the option of building PFs at there most vulnerable expansions they hardly have need for bunkers mid and late game. also terrans have a little ability called "salvage" so its pretty much a no brainer to put bunkers down early at ur expansion even if a rush isnt coming. you get 100% of your money back in a refund.... 40 second build time is good for how powerful a bunker truly is for how low of a cost it is. and on top of that low cost its 100% refundable. ya 40 seconds is nothing. I'm actually concerned about this. It's arguable, but the Infestor is probably the most powerful spellcaster in the game, and Fungal Growth is one of the main reasons for this. The Stun Duration nerf is absolutely needed, but a 30% increase in damage to armored might be a little out of line.
I think this is probably because of one game unit: The Stalker.
QUESTION: That has to mean it deals the damage 100% faster, right? That's a HUUUUUGE buff. no its not such a huge buff as u think.... DO NOT let the 30% increase to armored units fool u. if u used infestors on PTR then u would know that the knew fungal is almost useless. stalkers and blink stalkers can dodge fungal SO EASILY that its almost a joke to use it against them if the toss player is even half decent. a biobal of stimmed marines/marauders can also dodge it if the terran player has good control. u might catch a few marines/units but the terran can still split units to lessen dmg. so to get a successfull fungal off u have to catch the army by surprise. however if u do catch them and u have enough fungals then the dps would be very good. so its not a huuge buff and the 4 second reduction in duration is a obvious nerf since fungal was mainly used to stop units rather then deal damage. imo this change to fungal was to make infestors more of a damage caster for zerg similar to defilier and plauge in BW. if u have enough infestors and can actually catch a army then it can be pretty insane dps for zerg. but again, catching a army with the new fungal is the problem... RE: BunkerI'm only really concerned about early-game and mid-game transition scenarios, really. Nobody is building a PF until base number three. The bunker is "powerful" because it is the only static defensive building in the game that requires active supply to attack ground units. The refund is nice, of course, but you still spend the money and it is gone until you salvage. So in early game bunkers significantly delay your BO. I prefer unit based defense in early game, which means I cannot tech. I just don't trust nor do I like relying on bunkers. Protoss lols at bunkers, but they are good versus Zerg. RE: FungalDo you honestly think Fungal was fine the way it was? Some sort of nerf was absolutely necessary imo. As I said, I'm concerned about this change. I'm not sure if it was the right one. Reducing stun is a step in the right direction. I really dislike the manipulation spells in this game. They just seem really hard to balance for both offensive and defensive purposes.
So what changes would you propose instead of these?
Make bunker build time 30 seconds?
Remove infestors?
Play the other two races, and you'll see why the changes are necessary.
|
A question:
Does the fungal change mean that it does half damage, or damage twice as fast? This might actually be a buff in some cases, if it lets you do 2.6x the damage/second to armored targets, especially if you have lots of infestors. That being said, dodge Fungals, dodge Psi Storms, ... dodge EMP?
|
It's funny to read TimeSpiral complaining that at 40 seconds, it's impossible to get an on-call bunker up on most maps, as Zerg certainly can't put up an on-call spine crawler (50 second build time), and Protoss can't put up an on-call photon cannon (40 second build time, and need to have a forge already). Compared to the Photon Cannon (150 minerals, can't move, can't be salvaged) and the Spine Crawler (100 minerals + drone, can move, can't be salvaged), the Bunker (100 minerals + SCV time, can't move, can be salvaged) punishes the player the least for putting up defensive structures that turn out to not be necessary.
@willoc:
Some change to deal with the Colossus may be necessary, but I think it would be a horrible idea to nerf both Colossi and High Templar in the same patch, because Protoss needs one or the other to be able to fight hydra/roach or MMM effectively, so nerfing both would translate into a serious nerf to the Protoss race as a whole.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
