EPTThis is sad, becaus without it Protoss will be overrunned after lossing a fight against Terran. And i agree instant storm is very strong. But i think removing ist much more worse
Patch 1.3 on PTR - Page 137
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Torrent.bnet
Germany5 Posts
This is sad, becaus without it Protoss will be overrunned after lossing a fight against Terran. And i agree instant storm is very strong. But i think removing ist much more worse | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On March 01 2011 02:35 TedJustice wrote: To be honest, I've always hated the amulet because it takes so long to upgrade. Just getting rid of it completely is like one less thing to worry about. But I feel like they should add something else to compensate. Maybe up the templar's normal starting energy by 10 or something. I think if they gave Archons a way to keep up with the bio army they'll be awfully more effective here's an idea Psionic Pursuit Archon's Attack increases it's movement speed for 5 seconds and attack range by 1. This effect does not stack but will refresh itself | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
On March 01 2011 01:26 Tabriss wrote: The problem is not the storm itself. All the concerns are about to warp a unit and instantly be able to storm. Why else would you research amulet? The ability is purely to give templar tech some defensive capabilities. Without it you need to gimp your main army by making defensive templar early and having them sit in a base. It's possible that you could nerf amulet in some way AND make it possible to react with templar when you scout a drop. I believe it was Tyler that suggested changing the base energy to 63, a number that makes having a storm in time for a scouted drop feasible, but not instant. Everything about templar tech already takes a crazy amount of time to come online. I don't see why anyone would bother with hts outside of lategame PvT if this change actually goes through. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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ExoD
United States37 Posts
I'm really starting to dislike sc2 Protoss, and blizzard keeps making it worse and worse. Why is colossi the only way to go still? I expected a HT buff not a nerf | ||
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epoc
Finland1190 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On March 01 2011 02:49 Offhand wrote: Why else would you research amulet? The ability is purely to give templar tech some defensive capabilities. Without it you need to gimp your main army by making defensive templar early and having them sit in a base. It's possible that you could nerf amulet in some way AND make it possible to react with templar when you scout a drop. I believe it was Tyler that suggested changing the base energy to 63, a number that makes having a storm in time for a scouted drop feasible, but not instant. Everything about templar tech already takes a crazy amount of time to come online. I don't see why anyone would bother with hts outside of lategame PvT if this change actually goes through. You have to gimp your main army by buliding your HTs a mere 44 seconds of game-time in advance? Do you have a perfect read on your opponent's army in every game and only warp in your HTs after you see them move out? I would love to see your replays. | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On March 01 2011 02:51 Doodsmack wrote: You have to gimp your main army by buliding your HTs a mere 44 seconds of game-time in advance? Do you have a perfect read on your opponent's army in every game and only warp in your HTs after you see them move out? I would love to see your replays. With the rush distance on most maps, if you see them moving out and warp in HTs you won't have storm in time unless you can stall for a while with FFs. In response to your other question: yes. Observers and/or phoenix are good, and will let you see your opponent moving out almost all of the time. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On March 01 2011 02:49 Doodsmack wrote: This thread has so many exaggerations and oversimplifications it may as well be locked. All the toss players claiming that HTs will never be used again...just wait two months from now and let's revisit this thread. It would be no different if I were to say "the 4gate is now impossible to stop because of the stim timing nerf." Every time a unit gets nerfed, the people who play that race come on here and complain that the unit is now "literally useless." This has only come close to being true in the case of the reaper, which got a catastrophic nerf. Well given the recent criticisms about Collosus being too much the focal point of the Protoss army, you have to admit that the decision to nerf the other major option is certainly a bit strange. Of course this is just PTR stuff and there's no guarantee that it'll make it to release, but it just seems like a strange way to deal with the current issues, I think. The HT isn't completely useless, but completely removing the amulet upgrade is certainly going to have a major impact on its viability. I would have thought they'd just adjust the upgrade so as not to allow instant storms upon warp-in, but still cut down the time between warp-in and casting. Removing it outright just seems extreme... :/ | ||
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Robo_Ian
United States10 Posts
Bro #2 -" What?" Bro #1 -" Lets make Marines fly and stim is autocast, which also does no damage" Bro #2 -" That sounds great!" Welcome to the Blizzard balancing team. | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On March 01 2011 01:20 Reborn58 wrote: Lets be serious here though, without storm the protoss army stands no chance against T1 units from terran. So a single EMP can wipe out all energy on HT and leave the entire toss army to die. At least you can dodge storms or emp them. Feedback range is too short, and is targeted not AOE like EMP. Your not serious here, your actually joking. Actually come to think of it, so is the guy you quoted so maybe that makes it okay... No 2-3 storms cannot kill an entire army (unless the entire army is somewhere in the region of 20 marines total) and neither can t1 units from terran kill a protoss without storm. Without medivacs and vikings you don't even need to leave the base as a terran. Otherwise all the protoss needs to do is forcefield you off and wait for stim to run out 3 times and the terran army is halfdead already. If a single EMP wipes out "all energy on HT" you have either: a) not built enough (meaning more than 1) or b) not learned the lesson that templars need to be split up neither of which is really that hard to do. Also no matter how often you try to spread that rumour no, the protoss army does not instantly die without it's shields. Yes they are weakened significantly, but then again nothing stops you from withdrawing if the terran lands a clutch emp on your templars. Note also a hint, keep your templars behind the colossi/stalkers/zealots that will force him to either run his ghosts into colossi range (which kills them very fast) or to wait with his emps until you bring your templars forward to cast storms (and trust me it isn't that easy to emp perfectly when you need to do 10 other things at the same time to deal with the protoss army in your face). Now for the last time, could we discuss the changes in a proper sense instead of whining about them like children with wild exaggerations thrown in from both sides? | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
On March 01 2011 02:51 Doodsmack wrote: You have to gimp your main army by buliding your HTs a mere 44 seconds of game-time in advance? Do you have a perfect read on your opponent's army in every game and only warp in your HTs after you see them move out? I would love to see your replays. You're forced to spend 150 gas on what effectively amounts to a defensive structure, denying that gas from going into your actual pushing force. As opposed to reacting to a drop with a warp-in round at a base rather then using those warp-ins as a reinforce. PvT looks terrible if this change goes live. Just blind counter collo with vikings and then win regardless of the protoss tech choice. | ||
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SpiZe
Canada3640 Posts
On March 01 2011 00:42 Tabriss wrote: Its because instant Warp+Storm is far more powerfull than an EMP or a FG. + Ghosts/Infestors need 40/50 sec of built time, a Warp is only 5 sec. You can kill instantly an entire army with 2/3 storms.. What do you except to do with 2/3 EMP or FG ? You could read my entire post, you are making me say the exact opposite of what I said. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
On March 01 2011 01:57 da_head wrote: FYI units don't take extra damage from warping in. that was changed (secretly). But yeah it is a bit warcraft 3 ish. They should honestly just put in the amulet from bw... Is that for real ? o.o | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On March 01 2011 03:10 Offhand wrote: Just blind counter collo with vikings and then win regardless of the protoss tech choice. Such a silly oversimplification. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On March 01 2011 03:07 Tula wrote: Your not serious here, your actually joking. Actually come to think of it, so is the guy you quoted so maybe that makes it okay... No 2-3 storms cannot kill an entire army (unless the entire army is somewhere in the region of 20 marines total) and neither can t1 units from terran kill a protoss without storm. Without medivacs and vikings you don't even need to leave the base as a terran. Otherwise all the protoss needs to do is forcefield you off and wait for stim to run out 3 times and the terran army is halfdead already. If a single EMP wipes out "all energy on HT" you have either: a) not built enough (meaning more than 1) or b) not learned the lesson that templars need to be split up neither of which is really that hard to do. Also no matter how often you try to spread that rumour no, the protoss army does not instantly die without it's shields. Yes they are weakened significantly, but then again nothing stops you from withdrawing if the terran lands a clutch emp on your templars. Note also a hint, keep your templars behind the colossi/stalkers/zealots that will force him to either run his ghosts into colossi range (which kills them very fast) or to wait with his emps until you bring your templars forward to cast storms (and trust me it isn't that easy to emp perfectly when you need to do 10 other things at the same time to deal with the protoss army in your face). Now for the last time, could we discuss the changes in a proper sense instead of whining about them like children with wild exaggerations thrown in from both sides? Thank you very much. You explained in more detail what I said only generally. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
The major QQ about protoss will not stop with that kind of amulette nerf: heck it will certainly not change with a nerf at the colossi (well if you nerf colossi to the ground obviously, but then protoss will not be playable). What you need to do is delaying warpgate in a way that colossi timing attack should not be possible with the add of warp in tech, because it's just too easy to do, and it bear almost no risk at all. Also making 4gate not possible so soon should be a good way to make the game a bit more interesting. That should be the main thing that you need to change with protoss, balancing it with some up to the gateway units. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
Protoss are definitely going to have to make some play adjustments to not having instant storms anywhere, but with good planning, composition, map vision, and upgrades, it isn't hard to overcome. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
I'm a bit late on the discussion here, but can someone summarize any of the undocumented changes or perhaps even small easter eggs? So far, I heard that there is a bug that doubles the costs of Overseers and Broodlords. I also heard that some data-mining in the game files reveals some random names for "ArtosisBot2000" and "TastelessBot2000" or something like that. | ||
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