Patch 1.3 on PTR - Page 129

Tiegrr

United States607 Posts

February 28 2011 03:48 GMT

#2561

On February 28 2011 12:15 Lexpar wrote:
Won't you have time to get that awful 500 gas and have them sit around for a couple seconds?

I'm sure you don't have the worst T1 units in the game. When Mass Roach can decimate most Protoss armies, something is wrong.

spacenegroes

United States80 Posts

February 28 2011 03:56 GMT

#2562

On February 28 2011 12:31 bennyaus wrote:

Show nested quote +

Um, "Answer: The protoss warps in (anywhere on the map!?! prepostorous) a round of stalkers and is more than enough to clean up the pathetic and costly drop"

Wow at the Protoss representatives in this thread. You are making yourselves look foolish.

I want to see you warp in "a round of stalkers" to defend against 2 dropships of marines and marauders. Please, be my guest. Not to mention, if you're macroing right, you don't leave your gates ready for warp in--they're on cooldown most of the time.

If you don't know how protoss works, please don't tell us how we're playing wrong.

dark fury

Sweden426 Posts

February 28 2011 03:57 GMT

#2563

On February 28 2011 12:31 bennyaus wrote:

Show nested quote +

so you suggest killing stimmed marauders with medievac support with stalkers? wow you are making yourself look foolish. marauders just destroy gateway units, wich is why we need amulet to defend against drops. pay attention to the discussion before you make stupid posts

Phats

Australia534 Posts

February 28 2011 04:01 GMT

#2564

with the zealot buff wouldn't zealots be able to handle drops? they get a guaranteed hit per charge.. add in a sentry or 2 for some forcefields and u should be able to stop minor drops.

IotaSC

United States91 Posts

February 28 2011 04:07 GMT

#2565

Keyword "minor." Two medivacs worth of MM, or even 3-4, is doable for a terran, and won't strongly affect the performance of their main army against the toss ball. We can't effectively deal with 2-4 worth of MM with only zealots and a few FFs, the thing is, in slightly favored numbers gateway units can STILL lose when both sizes are small, due to stim and kiting of zealots. Unless we have a good amount more of GW units than your dropped M&M units, we can't deal with it without picking the drop off before landing, Feedbacking it to pick it off, or, the main way, storm. That is the main problem i have with this KA removal tbh, that we now either need a cannon party in our bases, or observers like everywhere to spot drops way ahead of time. That, or leaving units like stalkers in the base, which heavily detracts from the effectiveness of our main army in a way greater than your drop does from yours. Too little risk for too high a benefit imo.

jgelling

55 Posts

February 28 2011 04:07 GMT

#2566

with the zealot buff wouldn't zealots be able to handle drops? they get a guaranteed hit per charge.. add in a sentry or 2 for some forcefields and u should be able to stop minor drops.

Well: (a) you're probably not getting charge if you're not getting HT, which you probably aren't because HT are now garbage; (b) zealots are already the go-to unit to clean up drops - charge makes little difference. The storms don't clean up drops by themselves, they just make it so you don't have to pull half your army to crush 2 MMM dropships; and (c) the new charge seems to make no difference.

Has anyone seen the new charge in action? If anything, it might be worse than charge as it is *now*, at least against units that are slower than 2.75. The zealot runs up to the fleeing unit, stops to take it its swing animation, gets 1 hit on its dual attack, and then charge STOPS. In some ways this is worse than the run-around their current "run-around flourish" animation. It's good for units the chargelots wouldn't otherwise be able to catch at all, like maybe a hellion or something.

Against MM, I think it might be worse. It's certainly not noticeably better in any sense. I don't see this new charge making templartech more attractive or chargelots any more effective.

Spekulatius

Germany2413 Posts

February 28 2011 04:16 GMT

#2567

Day9 (watch the ep "TvP from Germany") stated it once again: In mid-ish numbers MM works most efficiently. So against 2-3 dropships of MM, you need more than the equivalent of gateway units or cannons or storm (Colossus unfortunately can't be warped in).

BetaFoil

Canada33 Posts

February 28 2011 04:19 GMT

#2568

Well after reading all of this qq over the amulet nerf I just wonder if anyone has stopped to consider that they are testing the viability of templars without it so they can make changes to tvp late game effectivly. Testing the degree of templar use post amulet would be great data to have. So stop all the qq and go play with templars on the ptr. Then comment on their viability. They were too strong before and it is possible they are too weak now but how weak is what blizzard is trying to find out.

red_b

United States1267 Posts

February 28 2011 04:26 GMT

#2569

On February 28 2011 13:19 BetaFoil wrote:
They were too strong before and it is possible they are too weak now but how weak is what blizzard is trying to find out.

Were they?

Im not sure I agree with your core assumption.

I think blizzard just wants 1 unit comp per matchup so they dont have to put real thought into balancing a game they're punting on for its expansion.

Ighox

Norway580 Posts

February 28 2011 04:27 GMT

#2570

On February 28 2011 13:19 BetaFoil wrote:
Well after reading all of this qq over the amulet nerf I just wonder if anyone has stopped to consider that they are testing the viability of templars without it so they can make changes to tvp late game effectivly. Testing the degree of templar use post amulet would be great data to have. So stop all the qq and go play with templars on the ptr. Then comment on their viability. They were too strong before and it is possible they are too weak now but how weak is what blizzard is trying to find out.

So if people aren't supposed to QQ and are just supposed to "stop all the qq and go play on ptr", how will Blizzard find out that the change is terrible? By the complete silence?

Innovation

United States284 Posts

February 28 2011 04:28 GMT

#2571

All I have to say is that as zerg I'm looooooooving the new infestor...If the infestor buff makes it to production it's gonna change the game for all three matchups...Catz zvz will suddenly become really powerfull. It only takes 3 fungle growths to kill warp gate units completely. Watch this replay to see how crazy powerfull they are now. must have PTR 1.3 patch dl'd

http://www.mediafire.com/?4l5w5xtydi93e5t

BetaFoil

Canada33 Posts

February 28 2011 04:52 GMT

#2572

On February 28 2011 13:27 Ighox wrote:

Show nested quote +

So if people aren't supposed to QQ and are just supposed to "stop all the qq and go play on ptr", how will Blizzard find out that the change is terrible? By the complete silence?

Don't theorycraft and qq come back after you have played with them in the ptr 10, 20, 50 hours then say what you think.

idonthinksobro

3138 Posts

February 28 2011 05:10 GMT

#2573

its a good thing that they remove the amulet - and i hope they dont revert this. Anyone that knows anything about the current state of PvT should know why this change is needed.
The problem is once protoss gets maxed in a PvT terran has a really hard time to do anything. Its actually easier to do something against the deathball as a zerg player.
You cant base race because storms kill off everything so cost efficient , you cant really engage with mass bio vs a deathball. Dropping seems to be pointless as well - just warp in a single templar 16 maruader instant death. If you go for heavy mech style colossi + phenix or blink stalkers are almost impossible to deal with.
Iam a random diamond player and whenever i roll a TvP i just do a 2banshee 1 raven 6 tank marines + scv allin because that matchup feels so broken.

Parodoxx

United States549 Posts

February 28 2011 05:13 GMT

#2574

On February 28 2011 13:01 Phats wrote:
with the zealot buff wouldn't zealots be able to handle drops? they get a guaranteed hit per charge.. add in a sentry or 2 for some forcefields and u should be able to stop minor drops.

As others pointed out zealots are the go to unit to defend drops but charge is on a cooldown. so assuming we are talking about a maurder drop you would get 1 hit per zealot per 10 sec. vs maurder plus medvacs, you might break even in damage vs healing.

This brings you full circle to needing HT. the storm allows you to to go beyond that break even point and eventually clean it up.

hunts

United States2113 Posts

February 28 2011 05:13 GMT

#2575

Just my humble opinion on the infestor chnages. I reaaaaallllyyy don't like the missle change. It's so much harder to aim well now, and so much easier to dodge. Especially with fast units, like speedlings or stim marines or air units. I've been playing on PTR, trying to test ifnestors in as many games as i can, and infesotrs vs mutas or stim marines is very hard now, you hafve a ton of missed fungals and a ton of wasted mana.

29 fps

United States5725 Posts

February 28 2011 05:15 GMT

#2576

On February 28 2011 06:48 PrinceXizor wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 28 2011 06:25 SpinmovE wrote:

On February 28 2011 06:16 Whitewing wrote:

On February 28 2011 05:55 Thermia wrote:

On February 28 2011 04:11 Almin wrote:

On February 28 2011 03:44 orthopod wrote:
were people really complaining about warp-in storms? storms are dodge-able. hts seem pretty easy to kill off or emp. hts are pretty gas heavy that warping them in at a fast rate hurts too and just for one dodge-able storm.

didn't multi storms stack in BW? storms aren't as clutch is it was in BW and it was fine there.

Let me go warp in an HT behind your mineral line and kill 20 workers with one storm.

That's probably one of the reasons why it got nerfed.

Protoss can reinforce with HT's immediately, but infestors/ghosts cannot, so I don't see any logical reason for Protoss QQ.

Frankly, if a HT gets warped in behind your mineral like straight up you probably deserve to lose those workers. Ghosts, at least, are still useful if they can't emp right away (sniping is tolerable for countering casters, as well as cloaking/nukes). Infestors on the other hand are basically completely useless without enough energy to FG/NP, and the FG changes only exacerbate this.

And it's not like high templar are better at killing workers than say.... hellions. Or cloak banshees.

Really, the issue most people seem to have is with the warp gate mechanic, not with the high templar themselves being able to storm the moment they are ready. Frankly, storm isn't even that great: marines/marauders stim kite out of storms all the bloody time while getting medivac healed and laugh, and storm is a great deal weaker than it was in brood war (plus archons are worse too). It's decent and definitely useful, but not worth nerfing like this, especially since the only result will be to force less high templar play and more colossus play.

'cause every player in the game wants MORE colossus, less high templar, right?

I whole heartedly agree with this. I can't help but feel that if the Warp Gate mechanic was never introduced protoss would be a much more enjoyable race to play. At the very least PvP wouldn't be as stupid as it is, and people wouldn't be complaining about HT warp ins. I suppose the idea behind warp gates was interesting, but I really don't see that it adds anything to the game other then more problems.

I think it'd be super interesting if warp gates would work in a big range of a nexus instead of pylon power. like nexus would have a 20-25 range bubble, and warp prisms have their current range in which they can warp in units, and not pylons alone, this prevents PVP from becoming an aggressors advantage(unless you proxy nexus i guess), and still allows P to warp in to defend bases as well as somewhat cut down on transit time, and harass via warp prism.

i have always been in favor of the giant nexus range over a pylon one. one as big as the sensor tower seems okay. then we might see a proxy nexus to warp stuff in. (and people wont scout it!)

dark fury

Sweden426 Posts

February 28 2011 05:15 GMT

#2577

Im surprised that noone has adressed how the templar change has the potential to turn PvZ into a huge muta/ling fest, wich is basicly a bold step backwards in terms of meta-game.

Parodoxx

United States549 Posts

February 28 2011 05:17 GMT

#2578

On February 28 2011 14:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
its a good thing that they remove the amulet - and i hope they dont revert this. Anyone that knows anything about the current state of PvT should know why this change is needed.
The problem is once protoss gets maxed in a PvT terran has a really hard time to do anything. Its actually easier to do something against the deathball as a zerg player.
You cant base race because storms kill off everything so cost efficient , you cant really engage with mass bio vs a deathball. Dropping seems to be pointless as well - just warp in a single templar 16 maruader instant death. If you go for heavy mech style colossi + phenix or blink stalkers are almost impossible to deal with.
Iam a random diamond player and whenever i roll a TvP i just do a 2banshee 1 raven 6 tank marines + scv allin because that matchup feels so broken.

Protoss Late game does need to be addressed and it was a little with the mothership nerf but the amulet was to much b/c it destroys mid game where terran have the advantage.

TyrantPotato

Australia1541 Posts

February 28 2011 05:19 GMT

#2579

On February 28 2011 14:15 dark fury wrote:
Im surprised that noone has adressed how the templar change has the potential to turn PvZ into a huge muta/ling fest, wich is basicly a bold step backwards in terms of meta-game.

storm wasnt the main deterent to muta ling

the surge of strong 6 gate timings completely anihalate muta ling builds, and are still strong against roach hydra so its used quite often.

also stargate openings tend to steer the game towards a reaction of hydras into collosus (blizzards ultimate plan of war of the worlds domination)

however it still remains a fact that HT's are not going to be used in ANY matchup anymore.

essentially blizzard has removed high templars except they forgot to remove the button to build them.

Ratel

Canada184 Posts

February 28 2011 05:22 GMT

#2580

Blizzard isnt giving enough time for the game to evolve before they bomb it
instead of dealing with real issues that make the game imbalanced (see: marauder)
they twitch the bunker build time every single patch like its the source for all the balance in the game

Prev 1 127 128 129 130 131 186 Next

Please or register to reply.

Patch 1.3 on PTR - Page 129

Completed

Ongoing

Upcoming