EPTPatch 1.3 on PTR - Page 127
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
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dark fury
Sweden426 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
Only, gateway units suck except for the templar, and now high temps will be useless when warped in at a location. I could see taking away the amulet if they made archon warping instant or something, so that if you're caught with your pants down and not enough energy to storm, you could at least make your templar useful by making an archon (and archons suck!). 44 seconds is a long time to wait before a unit is capable of doing anything though, a really long time. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On February 28 2011 11:40 Whitewing wrote: Difference in comparing to zerg with this is that zerg has creep, so the units you DO have can easily move back into position if you are caught with your pants down. Warp in is supposed to be the protoss version of that: army out of position, warp in units where you need. Only, gateway units suck except for the templar, and now high temps will be useless when warped in at a location. I could see taking away the amulet if they made archon warping instant or something, so that if you're caught with your pants down and not enough energy to storm, you could at least make your templar useful by making an archon (and archons suck!). 44 seconds is a long time to wait before a unit is capable of doing anything though, a really long time. This is like the bunker problem, Terran needs to be able to bunker up in time, but when the bunker is used offensively, it going up that fast creates some what of a problem. btw Blizzard awesome ob on the new Observer tabs | ||
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dark fury
Sweden426 Posts
On February 28 2011 11:40 Whitewing wrote: 44 seconds is a long time to wait before a unit is capable of doing anything though, a really long time. especialy when you need to invest 550gas in just buildings and upgrades to get it | ||
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abominare
United States1216 Posts
Seems like it just means you need to actually plan when and how many templar you need instead of getting on demand storms throughout the fight. Imagine the QQ if i could just teleport in emp whenever i wanted? | ||
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jgelling
55 Posts
especialy when you need to invest 550gas in just buildings and upgrades to get it Plus another 150 for the actual HT, and 50 seconds in warp gate build time. It's odd, no other unit has to just sit there to make itself useful. The sentry when it's warped in gets its most powerful spell: FF. The ghost has a decent base attack and gets 2 snipes, and the infestor gets 2 infested Terrans. Plus, they both still have their +25 energy upgrades, as do units like the BC and raven, so they'll still be able to instant fungal and instant EMP without waiting 44 seconds. On top of all that, colossi are now so much cheaper and faster to tech to. Why would you bother with templar? An extra 44 seconds per, and no ability to ward off drops/mutas/reinforce = complete uselessness. I think if they have any viability at all now it's late, late game. | ||
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qazqwezxc
Canada91 Posts
On February 28 2011 11:53 jgelling wrote: Plus another 150 for the actual HT, and 50 seconds in warp gate build time. It's odd, no other unit has to just sit there to make itself useful. The sentry when it's warped in gets its most powerful spell: FF. The ghost has a decent base attack and gets 2 snipes, and the infestor gets 2 infested Terrans. Plus, they both still have their +25 energy upgrades, as do units like the BC and raven, so they'll still be able to instant fungal and instant EMP without waiting 44 seconds. On top of all that, colossi are now so much cheaper and faster to tech to. Why would you bother with templar? An extra 44 seconds per, and no ability to ward off drops/mutas/reinforce = complete uselessness. I think if they have any viability at all now it's late, late game. remember, every race does not have to be the same, its a matter of finding each units niche. HT definitely is gonna be pwned though if this patch goes through (terran fanboyism love) | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On February 28 2011 11:53 jgelling wrote: Plus another 150 for the actual HT, and 50 seconds in warp gate build time. It's odd, no other unit has to just sit there to make itself useful. The sentry when it's warped in gets its most powerful spell: FF. The ghost has a decent base attack and gets 2 snipes, and the infestor gets 2 infested Terrans. Plus, they both still have their +25 energy upgrades, as do units like the BC and raven, so they'll still be able to instant fungal and instant EMP without waiting 44 seconds. On top of all that, colossi are now so much cheaper and faster to tech to. Why would you bother with templar? An extra 44 seconds per, and no ability to ward off drops/mutas/reinforce = complete uselessness. I think if they have any viability at all now it's late, late game. you get a single feed back, and merge archon if that's where you're getting at | ||
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zJayy962
1363 Posts
On February 28 2011 11:53 jgelling wrote: Plus another 150 for the actual HT, and 50 seconds in warp gate build time. It's odd, no other unit has to just sit there to make itself useful. The sentry when it's warped in gets its most powerful spell: FF. The ghost has a decent base attack and gets 2 snipes, and the infestor gets 2 infested Terrans. Plus, they both still have their +25 energy upgrades, as do units like the BC and raven, so they'll still be able to instant fungal and instant EMP without waiting 44 seconds. On top of all that, colossi are now so much cheaper and faster to tech to. Why would you bother with templar? An extra 44 seconds per, and no ability to ward off drops/mutas/reinforce = complete uselessness. I think if they have any viability at all now it's late, late game. Your argument isnt valid because you are comparing apples to oranges. HT's have to sit around to get the energy it needs, infestors and ghosts have build times. I feel the change now is too drastic. Seems like making storm 90 energy or make them only available to the gateway would solve the problems Blizzard is having with HT's. | ||
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
On February 28 2011 11:52 abominare wrote: im sorry but isnt 44 secs the game time? in real time thats what 25ish seconds? Thats really not bad considering youre not having to wait the full production time to get the actual unit. Seems like it just means you need to actually plan when and how many templar you need instead of getting on demand storms throughout the fight. Imagine the QQ if i could just teleport in emp whenever i wanted? I dont want to imagine such a thing, that would be horrible  Infestor with upgrade needs 50 seconds before he can cast FG, and he also has to travel Hatch -> Battle HT without upgrade needs 49,4 seconds to cast Storm and is teleported where needed And Protoss are still raging :o This change is going to balance casters. Thats IMO good thing. If game will be imbalanced by this, then Blizzard can balance it around this change. But Protoss already have Warp-in (which basically serves as almost +25 energy upgrade + teleport) so they should not have separate upgrade too. | ||
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Parodoxx
United States549 Posts
Also I think they need to make archons immune to slowing effects (not fungal) If we want to super theory craft maybe add a spell to either heal shields or move shields from one unit to another (move shields of Archons to collosi or something like like) I feel the amulet change is way to much at once and needs some further balance if they plan to keep it out. | ||
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Kindred
Canada396 Posts
On February 28 2011 11:52 abominare wrote: Imagine the QQ if i could just teleport in emp whenever i wanted? really thats what your comparing it too? really? EMPs are instant effect. You get an EMP on an army and the shields are gone right away, not gradual so you can move out of the way. Teleporting in EMPs and teleporting in HTs to storm an army is different. I actually tried to play without the amulet. I had a few HTs ready in my army but when I saw a drop ship coming, i warped in a HT and it stood there for what felt like a VERY long time. My main army was fighting his and the drops wrecked my base before the HT could come out with a storm. | ||
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Kindred
Canada396 Posts
On February 28 2011 11:59 Sek-Kuar wrote: I dont want to imagine such a thing, that would be horrible Infestor with upgrade needs 50 seconds before he can cast FG, and he also has to travel Hatch -> Battle HT without upgrade needs 49,4 seconds to cast Storm and is teleported where needed And Protoss are still raging :o This change is going to balance casters. Thats IMO good thing. If game will be imbalanced by this, then Blizzard can balance it around this change. But Protoss already have Warp-in (which basically serves as almost +25 energy upgrade + teleport) so they should not have separate upgrade too. FG Stops enemies in their tracks. Storm doesnt. You can move out of under a storm. With FG, it doesnt just stop you and makes you take dmg, it also disables you to have any kiting abilities or anything so Lings come in and eat you up or Roaches or whatever. thats why FG is extremely good as is. | ||
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abominare
United States1216 Posts
On February 28 2011 11:53 jgelling wrote: Plus another 150 for the actual HT, and 50 seconds in warp gate build time. It's odd, no other unit has to just sit there to make itself useful. The sentry when it's warped in gets its most powerful spell: FF. The ghost has a decent base attack and gets 2 snipes, and the infestor gets 2 infested Terrans. Plus, they both still have their +25 energy upgrades, as do units like the BC and raven, so they'll still be able to instant fungal and instant EMP without waiting 44 seconds. On top of all that, colossi are now so much cheaper and faster to tech to. Why would you bother with templar? An extra 44 seconds per, and no ability to ward off drops/mutas/reinforce = complete uselessness. I think if they have any viability at all now it's late, late game. Yea those 2 snipes really rock the game. You could severely damage a zealot with them =/. I'll take feed back over snipes any day of the week. Also the little gem about warding off drops/mutas...since when do colossus shoot upwards? | ||
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bennyaus
Australia1833 Posts
On February 28 2011 12:02 Kindred wrote: really thats what your comparing it too? really? EMPs are instant effect. You get an EMP on an army and the shields are gone right away, not gradual so you can move out of the way. Teleporting in EMPs and teleporting in HTs to storm an army is different. I actually tried to play without the amulet. I had a few HTs ready in my army but when I saw a drop ship coming, i warped in a HT and it stood there for what felt like a VERY long time. My main army was fighting his and the drops wrecked my base before the HT could come out with a storm. So do what a Terran does when he gets dropped. Bring back some units or leave some in the base. Hint: He doesn't start building a tank when he sees the drop. Don't see why Protoss gets to have the ability to move all his units away from his buildings, in much the same way that Zerg and Terran cannot and need to control their own areas. | ||
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Kindred
Canada396 Posts
On February 28 2011 12:05 abominare wrote: Yea those 2 snipes really rock the game. You could severely damage a zealot with them =/. I'll take feed back over snipes any day of the week. Also the little gem about warding off drops/mutas...since when do colossus shoot upwards? Snipe is extremely underused IMO I've seen videos of Painuser where he cloaks like 2 ghosts, walks to the mineral line and and just wrecks complete havok in there. | ||
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Ksi
357 Posts
On February 28 2011 12:05 abominare wrote: Yea those 2 snipes really rock the game. You could severely damage a zealot with them =/. I'll take feed back over snipes any day of the week. Also the little gem about warding off drops/mutas...since when do colossus shoot upwards? He means templar no longer ward off drops/mutas. | ||
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Kindred
Canada396 Posts
On February 28 2011 12:06 bennyaus wrote: So do what a Terran does when he gets dropped. Bring back some units or leave some in the base. Hint: He doesn't start building a tank when he sees the drop. Don't see why Protoss gets to have the ability to move all his units away from his buildings, in much the same way that Zerg and Terran cannot and need to control their own areas. Terran Turrets are by themselves amazing especially vs the frail warprism. A Protoss dropping a Terran is a big investment because he knows that these units will most likely die there. Not to mention that a good T player is continiously making units so even if he is attacking, he is still producing units that have to walk all the way to the fight (if rallied). a few MM clean up wtv a P dropped, especially when Stim and Concussive are researched. As for Zerg, there units are extremly mobile and getting back at their base takes a second. Remember clash of the Titans? In 1 game, the way Idra was able to stop those drops was amazing. So efficient and quick. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On February 28 2011 12:08 Kindred wrote: Snipe is extremely underused IMO I've seen videos of Painuser where he cloaks like 2 ghosts, walks to the mineral line and and just wrecks complete havok in there. Snipe takes away from cloak, ghosts do 20 dmg to workers already and attacks at a reasonable rate if you have cloak no need for snipe really | ||
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