EPTPatch 1.3 on PTR - Page 125
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mholden02
387 Posts
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mholden02
387 Posts
who cares if your T3 sucks if you dont even need it to win. They do need something, bio is getting torched Late game, as it should vs Protoss, but I do not see another Terran alternative, Mech has more weaknesses than bio. | ||
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Oceaniax
146 Posts
On February 28 2011 08:31 mholden02 wrote: A note on tanks in SC2. They're not Broodwar tanks. Their 3 supply instead of 2, cost more gas, and do far, far less damage since the nurf. 20% less to armored and 50% less vs light. Combine this with the fact protoss has been given units to deal specifically with mech, Immortals, and Tanks simply are not nearly as effective as in Broodwar. This is the reason Terrans stick with Bio vs Protoss. If tanks were really effective, Terrans would be using them. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Explosive_Damage#Explosive_Damage If you don't know how things work, you shouldn't post like you do. | ||
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Uhnno
Netherlands288 Posts
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
We either open Mech (which is VERY risky. a standard 6g push will almost certainly kill you) or we open bio and switch into Mech. The only way to do that well is to play it like MVP did (skip Bio upgrades and immediatly start to upgrade mech) because our upgrades are seperated. I could go on listing other strengths and weaknesses of the various Mech units builds, but how about instead all those rather silly protoss players who try to tell the Terrans (who have been experimenting with Mech since the beta remember?) how to play their race, instead listen to their own advice. Trust me, many of us who came from BW would like nothing more than to go back to playing with our tanklines, but quite simply put against protoss it doesn't work anymore because your race has 2 units which make any kind of mech play VERY cost inefficient (Immortals and voidrays, and before you quote Artosis remember that he said after the game that it was the first time seeing that build. If he had seen it before and prepared for it he would have ripped it apart). So with the current situation being, that the most efficient way to play against protoss is bio heavy with support from higher units (and a heavy focus on upgrading fast) it should be no surprise that the instant KA was researched the game was basically over for the Terran. The main damage dealer in the bio ball are marines and sadly those are killed pretty easily with storms. One of the most frustrating feelings in the game currently is to kill off a protoss army perfectly by dealing with his colossi and dodging the storms (or EMP on the templars) only to loose your remaining 30-40 units instantly to a warpin of 4 more HTs. Note to anyone who tries to tell me that he got beaten by pure marauders because they can kill all their army by itself the only possible reply is learn to forcefield and build some friggin zealots... Now after having given my opinion on a rather specific section of the patchnotes let me just add 3 things in general: 1) I have no idea how the change will work precisely for the lategame, but that is something that only testing can actually show us. It is probably the largest balance change since tank damage was nerfed drastically (in 1.1 i believe?). At that point i was shocked because my standard build against protoss was suddenly dead, and it has remained dead to this day. I cannot simply play with straight Tanks on the ground, but frankly it was a necessary nerf and maybe in 2-3 months even the protoss players will see that this nerf was also necessary. 2) On the other hand of the spectrum the change to the fungal mechanic seems ill advised to me. Fungal is the only way a hydra player can try to catch phoenixes and Mutalisks, so the snare was definitly important to me. But with the change to fungal being a projectile (also question, can you actually shoot that down with a PDD?) i have my doubts if i will ever hit those fast flying units with it... 3) The vortex change is confusing to me. Are those units "frozen" in stasis for the 1.5s? or are they shooting during that timeframe? IF they are simply frozen i'll accept it as a price to pay to fix a rather buggy mechanic (frankly the vortex was an instant kill for almost all units in it if the other side had AOE damage. banelings, siegetank fire, archons etc.) But if they are invulnerable but still firing that is pretty unacceptable. (edit) To the poster above me, please either learn to play or learn to not judge. Frontal attacks into a dug in siege line never work unless you have built a specific unit combination to break a siege line (in your case zealots with legspeed combined with immortals and high templars to deal with marines/hellions). That is how it should be, because otherwise why should the terrans build a unit which needs to setup through an animation? You have all the cards to counter Mech in your arsenal learn to use them.... (last edit) I'll miss the viking flower, but it did give a fairly large advantadge to the defender, so i can live with that :p wonder how it looks now if you try to set a very small patrol path | ||
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Balor
United States147 Posts
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doomed
Australia420 Posts
On February 28 2011 09:29 Balor wrote: Unlisted patch note: BL'sm are 300/250 to morph cost up from 150/150 what? whats BL'sm ? | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On February 28 2011 08:31 mholden02 wrote: A note on tanks in SC2. They're not Broodwar tanks. Their 3 supply instead of 2, cost more gas, and do far, far less damage since the nurf. 20% less to armored and 50% less vs light. Combine this with the fact protoss has been given units to deal specifically with mech, Immortals, and Tanks simply are not nearly as effective as in Broodwar. This is the reason Terrans stick with Bio vs Protoss. If tanks were really effective, Terrans would be using them. Except they do use them? Mech is great right now and I see Bio-Tank every other game | ||
bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
Maybe the M is a typo.. brood lords? | ||
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
It's likely a bug. Currently its the cost of a corruptor + broodlord. As is an overseer is currently the cost of it + overlord. To the first guy in the quote, read or search a bit before posting something new please. | ||
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I Hott Sauce I
United States91 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44614 Posts
On February 28 2011 07:38 skrzmark wrote: Keep the amulet but make storm cost 80 energy how hard is that? As a Protoss player, I approve this message. Getting rid of the amulet entirely is crazy. We need to wait... what, 40 seconds to be able to use a single storm without the upgrade? I'm supposed to waste all my gas and build nothing but zealots that far in advance if I *think* the Terran bio ball is going to move out? | ||
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tsuxiit
1305 Posts
On February 28 2011 09:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: As a Protoss player, I approve this message. Getting rid of the amulet entirely is crazy. We need to wait... what, 40 seconds to be able to use a single storm without the upgrade? I'm supposed to waste all my gas and build nothing but zealots that far in advance if I *think* the Terran bio ball is going to move out? LOL, welcome to playing Zerg! | ||
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squintz
Canada217 Posts
On February 28 2011 09:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: As a Protoss player, I approve this message. Getting rid of the amulet entirely is crazy. We need to wait... what, 40 seconds to be able to use a single storm without the upgrade? I'm supposed to waste all my gas and build nothing but zealots that far in advance if I *think* the Terran bio ball is going to move out? Wait we have to wait 40 seconds before we get a single ghost and there's no upgrade or chrono boost for it? I'm supposed to waste all my gas and build nothing but marines that far in advance if I think the Protoss 2gate VR me? | ||
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doomed
Australia420 Posts
haha yeah that is exactly how Zerg works.. all damn game. And if you guess wrong once within the first 15mins you lose the match. | ||
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IotaSC
United States91 Posts
Will FF become the main "tech" in PvT now, with a reliance on a large number of units, charge, and excellent FFs? Idk man, I just think they coulda dealt with the templar in a different way, like making the start energy upgrade be say, 15-20 short of enough to storm. that way the temps still have a use and are a decent tech path and response to the viking+bio, AND we can't do the whole 4 storms>kill your army. | ||
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skrzmark
United States1528 Posts
On February 28 2011 10:01 squintz wrote: Wait we have to wait 40 seconds before we get a single ghost and there's no upgrade or chrono boost for it? I'm supposed to waste all my gas and build nothing but marines that far in advance if I think the Protoss 2gate VR me? You don't have to research EMP as we do with Storm 200/200 for storm? and the tech building costs 200/200 while the Ghost Academy is only 150/50 a cost and you only need to get a Barracks in order to build it while we need Gateway, Core, and Twilight Council just to build the Archives. | ||
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skrzmark
United States1528 Posts
On February 28 2011 10:02 doomed wrote: haha yeah that is exactly how Zerg works.. all damn game. And if you guess wrong once within the first 15mins you lose the match. The game is not intended for all of the 3 races to act the same. | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On February 28 2011 10:06 skrzmark wrote: The game is not intended for all of the 3 races to act the same. It's also not intended to have them have hugely different degrees of difficulty. | ||
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skrzmark
United States1528 Posts
On February 28 2011 08:01 3clipse wrote: That's still a major nerf. Every successive storm that ht wants to cast after the first will take 10 more energy. If you keep your ht alive, that really adds up. I think the best option would be to make KA only increase the starting energy by 20 rather than 25 so the ht can't cast storm instantly. But I would also advocate a collosi nerf in conjunction with this seeing as ht are underused already. The chargelot buff seems warranted and will hopefully help retain balance. After playing around with the new FG for awhile, it seems like a nice buff. My only concern is that it may now be so powerful vs terran infantry as to make banelings obsolete. It's no longer something intended to be used in conjunction with them, it could actually be a replacement. Perhaps keeping the missile attack and extra damage vs armoured (or even increasing this past 30%) but scrapping the faster dps and shorter stun would be a viable option. Yeah but, do people actually keep the templars after they storm during a battle? no they morph them into archons, This is just so they can't warp in and instantly storm after they do to change the tide of the battle the enemy has the time for the 5 energy to build up to try and deal more damage to the protoss player, before they can storm. | ||
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