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Before you post, read the title of this thread slowly and out loud. |
Hello,
Sorry I don't have any real question, but you know, I've been thinking a lot about this league so I would like to throw my opinion about an issue that may bother some people (as seen in this thread).
I think the issue with the broadcasting method that you chose, as well as some other issues, may stems from one pivotal aspect of the league. Here is the thing: the fact that a major part of this tournament is going to be played online actually begets a number of these aforementioned issues.
Let's look at BW leagues , and the GSL.
Everything is happening offline: players have an defined operational infrastructure where they meet and compete, they play actually right next to each other, there is an audience, etc. In one word, these league actually have an ARENA. Just like football stadiums and whatnot.
From the players' point of view, I can't say much, but I'll wager that this environment may prove very beneficial for the development of their competitive mindset.
But more importantly, things are getting interesting from the producers' point of view: because everything happens offline, there is no worry about cheating, nor about lag, so you don't need any wacky or clever cast delaying. You can actually play, commentate & broadcast games live.
Finally as a viewers, the experience is litterally tenfold compared to an online tournament; First we get to watch the games LIVE with everything that it implies. Then we get to physically see the players, watch them play and react, see how they manage their emotions while playing, we can witness the live audience interacting with their idols, etc... The whole event is not only live, but it actually feels ALIVE. Can you see the nuance?
I know that ro8 games and so on will be offline but to me the format of the rest of the tournament is kind of a disappointment. I was just expecting something really HUGE, but I guess it takes time.
This leads me to another concern:
I understand that you are trying to grow Western Professional eSports so please bear in mind (correct me if I'm wrong) that Korea's esports would have never been what it is without the approval and the support of the governement. Other related factors such as the Korean culture and way of life also played a great role in the Korean esports' development, essentially what I'm trying to say is; if you look at the bigger picture it's going to be VERY hard for esports to get a solid ground into western society.
So hopefully you have taken this into account when devising your long-term plans.
But at the end of the day, I'll definitely support this league. Even though this is a NA league I don't care, because as you know esports community is worldwide 
p.s.: There is just one minor things that bothers me, (I feel I already wrote something about that) it's this whole 'storyline' and 'drama' thing. It may already have been debunked though. Choosing players depending on their skills, I agree. But then choosing players depending on their background and potential storyline / drama ? In my opinion this kind of things happen & develop by themselves, there is no need to "force" anything .
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Question
As you probably know the NASL voting is being hacked continuously to say ATHENEWINS. i was just wondering if you knew of a way to fix it?
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On February 24 2011 14:01 Yamulo wrote:
Question
As you probably know the NASL voting is being hacked continuously to say ATHENEWINS. i was just wondering if you knew of a way to fix it?
The voting automatically deletes fake votes every hour, so it doesn't matter  !
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Serious collusion question I didn't see asked:
Considering the players are going to play from home, how do you plan to reduce the incidence of ghosting in these matchups? To be specific, what's to stop Team XYZ from watching XYZ_Player's match (via teamviewer or just standing behind him) and advising him in real-time? Or letting XYZ_Player2 play in his place?
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On February 24 2011 12:26 iNcontroL wrote:
Can I ask, where is this "incontrol is so bad" shit coming from? I told a guy santa doesn't exist... sorry that part of me will always be there. I did not yell at him or call him names wtf?
If people are citing SOTG or my stream as some sort of "official NASL announcement" I feel bad for that perspective. I am absolutely aware of my personality and my responsibilities. I have gotten as far as I have because of how I treat both. At some point some of you are going to have to come to the hard truth that I indeed am not some raving lunatic monster with no thought. If I overstep my bounds I apologize and it's over. Usually I am just having a good time. That won't change with NASL sorry.
People are real quick to try and paint me as some upstart that is so abrasive I turn people away.. sorry guys that just simply isn't the case. I've been around longer than 99% of you and I've done well the entire time. Join me in making this thing great or sit by the sidelines and call me a jerk... it's your prerogative. I didn't get where I am today acting like a call center so I won't start now.
Odd, because here's what I get from you in PM'S for trying to do the community a good deed.
Show nested quote +
contents of thread i posted below:
I observe a lot of games and I save all of the replays. Here is the website which I'll be hosting them at. Just click on the file and it will prompt you to download
eveo.org/replays
Some players in these replays; iNcontroL, Antimage, REQ members, EVO members, xN members, 1nsanity members, Shoey, SlayerSCella etc.
Also, you can send me any high level replays you have and I'll add them to the archive.
I'll be updating this thread with any replays that I add.
Enjoy!
EDIT: Some replays are pre patch 1.2.
iNcontroL's reponse to my threadEast trash talk might be ok on gosugamers or something but on TL you respect the vets/moderators/people smarter than you. If you want to share some combatex reps don't get butthurt when he gets censored on the site he has caused problems on. Next time you bitch about this openly on TL you will get banned. Thanks in advance for your cooperation, iNcontroL (Do not reply to this message. No one will receive it.)
I know you and combat hate each other and BM one another all the time, he tells me, it's pretty funny, let that stuff stay on bnet not teamliquid
User was temp banned for this post.
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Sorry if this question has been asked already, I've looked at the OP and the first few pages and never found the answer.
What is your stance on players on non-reputable teams? There are many amazing players that are on teams that don't have much of a name. If players from non-reputable teams are allowed, how would accountability apply to them. If not, then are some players not able to ever be considered for this league unless they break loyalty?
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On February 24 2011 14:19 Chairman Ray wrote:
Sorry if this question has been asked already, I've looked at the OP and the first few pages and never found the answer.
What is your stance on players on non-reputable teams? There are many amazing players that are on teams that don't have much of a name. If players from non-reputable teams are allowed, how would accountability apply to them. If not, then are some players not able to ever be considered for this league unless they break loyalty?
I'm taking them into account, and been speaking to many team leaders.
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On February 24 2011 14:01 AlBundy wrote:Hello, Sorry I don't have any real question, but you know, I've been thinking a lot about this league so I would like to throw my opinion about an issue that may bother some people (as seen in this thread). I think the issue with the broadcasting method that you chose, as well as some other issues, may stems from one pivotal aspect of the league. Here is the thing: the fact that a major part of this tournament is going to be played online actually begets a number of these aforementioned issues. Let's look at BW leagues , and the GSL. Everything is happening offline: players have an defined operational infrastructure where they meet and compete, they play actually right next to each other, there is an audience, etc. In one word, these league actually have an ARENA. Just like football stadiums and whatnot. From the players' point of view, I can't say much, but I'll wager that this environment may prove very beneficial for the development of their competitive mindset. But more importantly, things are getting interesting from the producers' point of view: because everything happens offline, there is no worry about cheating, nor about lag, so you don't need any wacky or clever cast delaying. You can actually play, commentate & broadcast games live. Finally as a viewers, the experience is litterally tenfold compared to an online tournament; First we get to watch the games LIVE with everything that it implies. Then we get to physically see the players, watch them play and react, see how they manage their emotions while playing, we can witness the live audience interacting with their idols, etc... The whole event is not only live, but it actually feels ALIVE. Can you see the nuance? I know that ro8 games and so on will be offline but to me the format of the rest of the tournament is kind of a disappointment. I was just expecting something really HUGE, but I guess it takes time. This leads me to another concern: I understand that you are trying to grow Western Professional eSports so please bear in mind (correct me if I'm wrong) that Korea's esports would have never been what it is without the approval and the support of the governement. Other related factors such as the Korean culture and way of life also played a great role in the Korean esports' development, essentially what I'm trying to say is; if you look at the bigger picture it's going to be VERY hard for esports to get a solid ground into western society. So hopefully you have taken this into account when devising your long-term plans. But at the end of the day, I'll definitely support this league. Even though this is a NA league I don't care, because as you know esports community is worldwide p.s.: There is just one minor things that bothers me, (I feel I already wrote something about that) it's this whole 'storyline' and 'drama' thing. It may already have been debunked though. Choosing players depending on their skills, I agree. But then choosing players depending on their background and potential storyline / drama ? In my opinion this kind of things happen & develop by themselves, there is no need to "force" anything .
Totally agree this is the point ive been trying to make throughout this thread, but apparently the money just isnt there for them to host the whole thing live, like someone said to me, everyone wants it this way its just not feasible at the moment hopefully they make a bunch of money and can eventually do it this way.
The only problem i see with that is that people dont really like the current format so i cant see a whole buttload of people going out and paying for the premium service. Sure there is a select few who are very vocal on the forums that would but i dont see a vast majority shelling out 20 bucks for an online event that isnt live. We just all wish it could be like the gsl, when i heard NASL i was thinking GSL in america, but it really is completly different. Give it a few seasons though and if it is profitable maybe they will make the necessary changes or maybe if it is profitable someone else will decide to do a format more suited for the masses and we will see a second league that is more gsl oriented ^^
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On February 24 2011 14:01 Yamulo wrote:
Question
As you probably know the NASL voting is being hacked continuously to say ATHENEWINS. i was just wondering if you knew of a way to fix it?
lol i tried to put up athenewins i guess hes not on a team but if it is actually chiren playing he is really good. I mean hes a very good gamer in general so i wouldnt put it past him, in his last youtube he talked about attending MLG would be awesome if he got on a team( if it is actually him playing)
I wasnt hacking or anything i just tried to put him up on the voting, maybe some other people tried as well hes quite a popular troll
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So will there be a set list of teams that NASL deems as acceptable (professional) teams able to enter and will this list be viewable?
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On February 24 2011 15:10 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 14:01 AlBundy wrote:Hello, Sorry I don't have any real question, but you know, I've been thinking a lot about this league so I would like to throw my opinion about an issue that may bother some people (as seen in this thread). I think the issue with the broadcasting method that you chose, as well as some other issues, may stems from one pivotal aspect of the league. Here is the thing: the fact that a major part of this tournament is going to be played online actually begets a number of these aforementioned issues. Let's look at BW leagues , and the GSL. Everything is happening offline: players have an defined operational infrastructure where they meet and compete, they play actually right next to each other, there is an audience, etc. In one word, these league actually have an ARENA. Just like football stadiums and whatnot. From the players' point of view, I can't say much, but I'll wager that this environment may prove very beneficial for the development of their competitive mindset. But more importantly, things are getting interesting from the producers' point of view: because everything happens offline, there is no worry about cheating, nor about lag, so you don't need any wacky or clever cast delaying. You can actually play, commentate & broadcast games live. Finally as a viewers, the experience is litterally tenfold compared to an online tournament; First we get to watch the games LIVE with everything that it implies. Then we get to physically see the players, watch them play and react, see how they manage their emotions while playing, we can witness the live audience interacting with their idols, etc... The whole event is not only live, but it actually feels ALIVE. Can you see the nuance? I know that ro8 games and so on will be offline but to me the format of the rest of the tournament is kind of a disappointment. I was just expecting something really HUGE, but I guess it takes time. This leads me to another concern: I understand that you are trying to grow Western Professional eSports so please bear in mind (correct me if I'm wrong) that Korea's esports would have never been what it is without the approval and the support of the governement. Other related factors such as the Korean culture and way of life also played a great role in the Korean esports' development, essentially what I'm trying to say is; if you look at the bigger picture it's going to be VERY hard for esports to get a solid ground into western society. So hopefully you have taken this into account when devising your long-term plans. But at the end of the day, I'll definitely support this league. Even though this is a NA league I don't care, because as you know esports community is worldwide p.s.: There is just one minor things that bothers me, (I feel I already wrote something about that) it's this whole 'storyline' and 'drama' thing. It may already have been debunked though. Choosing players depending on their skills, I agree. But then choosing players depending on their background and potential storyline / drama ? In my opinion this kind of things happen & develop by themselves, there is no need to "force" anything . Totally agree this is the point ive been trying to make throughout this thread, but apparently the money just isnt there for them to host the whole thing live, like someone said to me, everyone wants it this way its just not feasible at the moment hopefully they make a bunch of money and can eventually do it this way. The only problem i see with that is that people dont really like the current format so i cant see a whole buttload of people going out and paying for the premium service. Sure there is a select few who are very vocal on the forums that would but i dont see a vast majority shelling out 20 bucks for an online event that isnt live. We just all wish it could be like the gsl, when i heard NASL i was thinking GSL in america, but it really is completly different. Give it a few seasons though and if it is profitable maybe they will make the necessary changes or maybe if it is profitable someone else will decide to do a format more suited for the masses and we will see a second league that is more gsl oriented ^^
Comparing the GSL to any event in America is completely unreasonable. America is simply not laid out like Korea. The majority of the country is not conveniently located around one major city. A month-3 month long tournament includes so many logistical issues in America that simply do not exist in Korea.
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Bringing competitive e-sports to America is a dream come true, but then you shackle its growth with absurd rules and regulations. It's a club that if your not invited to you have to make it through a 1000 man gauntlet, and if you fail you can sit on the sidelines and watch. Why not just call it GSL hosted in America. Pay our 9.99 fee for HQ or watch for free so you can get railroaded by ads that puts money in your pockets. E-Sports in Korea has established itself. They have the right to be a cliche, they've earned it. This this idea got pitched to some backer who rest assured could care less about the growth of e-sports come in the door guns blazing making 1000 laws and bi-laws to guarantee 1000% revenue. Of course White-Ra doesn't need a team. He has a strong fan base. More fans watching = more money. Who gives a fuck about avilo?
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I don't know why people keep bringing up IdrA and Jinro as examples of foreigners doing well compared to Koreans. Jinro, and especially IdrA, have each spent a LONG time in Korea now, along with HuK, and as such, for the purposes of comparing Korea to the West in terms of SC2 prowess, they ARE Koreans. They've benefited enormously from the environment there, an environment that Western Starcraft players do not have access to. For now, the gap is small, just like it was small for the first couple of years of Brood War professional gaming, but it will not be long before the gap is once more insurmountable.
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On February 24 2011 15:38 Rokk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 15:10 cheesemaster wrote:On February 24 2011 14:01 AlBundy wrote:Hello, Sorry I don't have any real question, but you know, I've been thinking a lot about this league so I would like to throw my opinion about an issue that may bother some people (as seen in this thread). I think the issue with the broadcasting method that you chose, as well as some other issues, may stems from one pivotal aspect of the league. Here is the thing: the fact that a major part of this tournament is going to be played online actually begets a number of these aforementioned issues. Let's look at BW leagues , and the GSL. Everything is happening offline: players have an defined operational infrastructure where they meet and compete, they play actually right next to each other, there is an audience, etc. In one word, these league actually have an ARENA. Just like football stadiums and whatnot. From the players' point of view, I can't say much, but I'll wager that this environment may prove very beneficial for the development of their competitive mindset. But more importantly, things are getting interesting from the producers' point of view: because everything happens offline, there is no worry about cheating, nor about lag, so you don't need any wacky or clever cast delaying. You can actually play, commentate & broadcast games live. Finally as a viewers, the experience is litterally tenfold compared to an online tournament; First we get to watch the games LIVE with everything that it implies. Then we get to physically see the players, watch them play and react, see how they manage their emotions while playing, we can witness the live audience interacting with their idols, etc... The whole event is not only live, but it actually feels ALIVE. Can you see the nuance? I know that ro8 games and so on will be offline but to me the format of the rest of the tournament is kind of a disappointment. I was just expecting something really HUGE, but I guess it takes time. This leads me to another concern: I understand that you are trying to grow Western Professional eSports so please bear in mind (correct me if I'm wrong) that Korea's esports would have never been what it is without the approval and the support of the governement. Other related factors such as the Korean culture and way of life also played a great role in the Korean esports' development, essentially what I'm trying to say is; if you look at the bigger picture it's going to be VERY hard for esports to get a solid ground into western society. So hopefully you have taken this into account when devising your long-term plans. But at the end of the day, I'll definitely support this league. Even though this is a NA league I don't care, because as you know esports community is worldwide p.s.: There is just one minor things that bothers me, (I feel I already wrote something about that) it's this whole 'storyline' and 'drama' thing. It may already have been debunked though. Choosing players depending on their skills, I agree. But then choosing players depending on their background and potential storyline / drama ? In my opinion this kind of things happen & develop by themselves, there is no need to "force" anything . Totally agree this is the point ive been trying to make throughout this thread, but apparently the money just isnt there for them to host the whole thing live, like someone said to me, everyone wants it this way its just not feasible at the moment hopefully they make a bunch of money and can eventually do it this way. The only problem i see with that is that people dont really like the current format so i cant see a whole buttload of people going out and paying for the premium service. Sure there is a select few who are very vocal on the forums that would but i dont see a vast majority shelling out 20 bucks for an online event that isnt live. We just all wish it could be like the gsl, when i heard NASL i was thinking GSL in america, but it really is completly different. Give it a few seasons though and if it is profitable maybe they will make the necessary changes or maybe if it is profitable someone else will decide to do a format more suited for the masses and we will see a second league that is more gsl oriented ^^ Comparing the GSL to any event in America is completely unreasonable. America is simply not laid out like Korea. The majority of the country is not conveniently located around one major city. A month-3 month long tournament includes so many logistical issues in America that simply do not exist in Korea.
Okay thats fine, make it like the GSL with the mostly online tournament part if thats how it has to be, ive explained on many occasions why it could work like the gsl does and dont feel like typing it again. GSL format but online, no one would be complaining then.........
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Australia8532 Posts
@ cheesemaster..
Firstly - if you want to make multiple posts in a thread PLEASE don't spam the thread with new posts - ESPECIALLY if you're posts are one after the other - there is this awesome little EDIT button so you can add to your original post without flooding the topic.. thanks
Secondly, i know alot of people were thinking GSL in America but the problem is; this is the first of it's kind.. i mean MLG is big, but it isn't THIS big for starcraft 2; things aren't going to be perfect straight away, and if they can nail the broadcasts they have proposed and make it all appear seamless, i am sure everything will be fine..
Ultimately, yes we want it all live, all offline and all kick ass .. but at the moment i imagine that isn't in the cards just yet; as long as they dedicate a lot of time and energy to broadcast and production quality i think we will all have very little to complain about.. NASL just needs to recognise this as a KEY factor to pleasing the audience..
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The biggest problem with a totally offline league in the US is finding a place where everyone would want to live. Also, you need a place where you could reliably have access to studio space. That alone limits your choices.
Ideally this can be successful enough that they can go totally offline and convince everyone to move their teams to X location and have team houses.
I hate to compare it to Nascar, but almost every team in Nascar has setup in North Carolina. Not sure why that is, but I think it puts them very close to the majority of tracks they race at. Well at least it used to before they started going to CA/AZ/IL/TX.
Anyways, I'm going to at the very least watch NASL. Honestly with this format, I'm more likely to pay for the Vod's as I don't think I can watch 3 hours a night 5 nights a week. That's what TV is for and I don't always watch from 8-11. Now when it gets down to the last 3 weeks or so and the top 3 spots are on the line, that is when I can see watching it live.
Lastly, I hope this and any other well-funded league does well. It only means more opportunities for SC2 players.
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On February 24 2011 16:37 Pudge_172 wrote:
The biggest problem with a totally offline league in the US is finding a place where everyone would want to live. Also, you need a place where you could reliably have access to studio space. That alone limits your choices.
Ideally this can be successful enough that they can go totally offline and convince everyone to move their teams to X location and have team houses.
I hate to compare it to Nascar, but almost every team in Nascar has setup in North Carolina. Not sure why that is, but I think it puts them very close to the majority of tracks they race at. Well at least it used to before they started going to CA/AZ/IL/TX.
Anyways, I'm going to at the very least watch NASL. Honestly with this format, I'm more likely to pay for the Vod's as I don't think I can watch 3 hours a night 5 nights a week. That's what TV is for and I don't always watch from 8-11. Now when it gets down to the last 3 weeks or so and the top 3 spots are on the line, that is when I can see watching it live.
Lastly, I hope this and any other well-funded league does well. It only means more opportunities for SC2 players.
It's not totally offline
Only the final bracket of 16 will be offline and that will only last a weekend.
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There is just no way for NASL to host a 3 month live in person tournament like the GSL. The GSL is able to do it because South Korea is so small, most of their players are local players. Lucky for them they just happen to be some of the best. They only need to provide a foreigner house that houses 8-10 people to attract foreigners. And besides Team Liquid and Idra/Artosis/Tasteless, how many other foreigners are there? 4 or 5?
The situation in the West is different. There is no high concentration of good players within an area like South Korea.
NASL is in Los Angeles, the U.S. is big, heck, the state of California is 4-5 times the size of South Korea. But there is like maybe 5 local players that are good enough to qualify for NASL. The rest need to move to Los Angeles, and that's comparable to moving to Korea. So the NASL would need to convince 45 high level players to leave their home, family and friends in order to have enough players to play this thing live in person. Think of it this way, count how many foreigners that went to Korea to try to compete in the GSL, that's the number of players you are going to get for NASL if it's all live in person.
You know, TLO might not come cuz he might get home sick... WhiteRa might not want to leave Ukraine, would Sen leave Taiwan etc etc...
GSL works live in person because it draw 90% of its player base within like 2 hour subway ride? NASL won't work because 90% of its players are from the rest of the world...
I don't see it happening like the GSL in anywhere in the west unless the tournament is rich enough to provide all player housing and give them cars. Remember in LA you need cars, no public transit, no taxis! and everything is so spread out! Weather is nice though...
GSL styled tournaments can only exist in South Korea I think... at least for few more years. But hey, if NASL becomes successful, who knows...
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If you're trying to make SC2 a "professional sport" it can't be prerecorded. No "professional sport" is. Other than that... sounds golden.
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On February 24 2011 17:33 Vei wrote:
If you're trying to make SC2 a "professional sport" it can't be prerecorded. No "professional sport" is. Other than that... sounds golden.
Most "professional sports" also have tons of production crew and experience working to create a high quality product in real time.
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EPT
