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Before you post, read the title of this thread slowly and out loud. |
On February 23 2011 18:55 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 18:50 Dhalphir wrote:On February 23 2011 18:47 Xeris wrote:On February 23 2011 18:38 Dhalphir wrote:
The very fact that we're making such a big deal out of this (while being reasonable and not flaming, which should tell you we aren't just being internet-angry-people) should tell you that this is important. The fact that nobody has said 1 word about the fact that TSL games are not cast live, and there is over 100 pages of people talking about NASL games being cast essentially the same way is confusing to me. Care to explain this? Because the TSL is not claiming to be a North American equivalent of the GSL, it is just a simple tournament being run by one website. In addition, I'm fairly sure the actual TSL itself will be cast live, but even if it isn't, its not on the same scale, and the same expectation does not exist. We also won't be paying for the TSL games. Every TSL event in the past has been cast off replays. The point is that, you're arguing that the "not live" cheapens the affect. However, we have documented proof (in the fact that TSL 1 and TSL 2 were HUGELY successful being cast ENTIRELY off replays, aka NOT live) that an event that is cast "not live" is just as exciting as an event that is cast "live" ... The fact that TSL was free and NASL is not (you can watch NASL free stream so your argument is kind of a moot point because if you're watching NASL live you don't need to pay... if you're watching the VODS, you need to pay, but if you're watching the VOD its already by definition not live) relevant to anything. Honestly, your argument isn't coherent. First you're saying "not live" cheapens the experience. Then I counter with some evidence that shows that "not live" events have just the same amount of interest / excitement. You then say "but that was free and this isn't"... well actually, it is. So, what are you arguing about?
Hmm i never knew that the TSL wasnt broadcast live, its the only tournament i havent watched to much but im pretty sure most people thought it was cast live, when i hear of a huge tournament i automatically assume that it is cast live. Most large sc2 tournament are that is just one example of one that isnt, but it also isnt going to be a league i think most people will hold NASL to similair standards of the gsl at least in regards to being broadcast live. A vast majority of the people in this thread have at least a mild problem with the NASL not being brodcast live, you keep brushing it off like its nothing no matter what you say though everyones mind works the same in this regard, it is just not as interesting when it is not broadcast live.
Im not saying it wont be succesful because of this but i do think it will be less succesful. Also i think far less people will be willing to pay for a HQ live stream that isnt live. I dont pay for the GSL premium service to watch the VOD's i like watching my events live I pay for the HQ stream so i dont have to watch my live event in rubbish quality.
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On February 24 2011 08:23 dsousa wrote:
Question:
If games are played online... what is your policy about having team members watch live while they play and give advice while watching their teammate play. I don't mean watching as in an game observer... i just mean standing behind them giving advice and watching the mini-map
Seems to me this is cheating too....
and certainly, since it does help the players alot, many will have people talking with them while they play the online NASL games.
That would be so distracting it might actually be more negative than positive for a player.
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On February 24 2011 07:50 GeeseHoward wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 06:26 ImHuko wrote:
Incontrols JOB is to fucking be in the community. Incontrol and many others are living the DREAM of being paid to play video games. To call it volunteer work is foolish. Wow, I don't think there's anything more to say. While I'm sure Incontrol does profit from his coaching, I personally see his time spent on SOTG, his stream, battle in the bronze and other casts as volunteer work free for the community to enjoy. I can only assume his time he spent so far in helping NASL is free as well. I know his animated high energy personality with his deep knowledge of the game is going be one of the main reasons why I watch NASL and I'm sure it will be enjoyable. NASL first season isn't going be perfect but Incontrol and everyone involved will work to improve it by ironing out technical and stylist issues.
This is laughable if you are actually that naive.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with making money and profiting from his work. Good for him.
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On February 24 2011 08:28 mprs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 08:23 dsousa wrote:
Question:
If games are played online... what is your policy about having team members watch live while they play and give advice while watching their teammate play. I don't mean watching as in an game observer... i just mean standing behind them giving advice and watching the mini-map
Seems to me this is cheating too....
and certainly, since it does help the players alot, many will have people talking with them while they play the online NASL games.
That would be so distracting it might actually be more negative than positive for a player.
Well, they don't need to be distracting.... they could just work with the person playing.
2 minds are better than 1..... its pretty clear to me having another pro behind you will at the very least reduce your errors and help you not make big mistakes that you miss.
This must happen already...
In fact I recall, Idra playing Huk once when he came back from Korea, and Idra said later that he took all the bases on LT because Machine told him too. So obviously Machine was watching as Idra played... and he could then be in a position to make a key point during the game.
Its clearly an advantage... and therefore clearly will be abused. It must have been already!
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On February 24 2011 08:33 dsousa wrote:
Its clearly an advantage... and therefore clearly will be abused. It must have been already!
So don't forbid it. That way both players have the advantage.
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On February 24 2011 08:28 mprs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 08:23 dsousa wrote:
Question:
If games are played online... what is your policy about having team members watch live while they play and give advice while watching their teammate play. I don't mean watching as in an game observer... i just mean standing behind them giving advice and watching the mini-map
Seems to me this is cheating too....
and certainly, since it does help the players alot, many will have people talking with them while they play the online NASL games.
That would be so distracting it might actually be more negative than positive for a player.
It's definitely a positive if the person behind can point out things to you that you may forget and purely watching the mini-map even.
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...They're not going to bother talking about something that is impossible to prove or enforce. Of course having somebody else tell you what to do while playing is cheating, does this have to actually be explained?
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On February 24 2011 08:45 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
...They're not going to bother talking about something that is impossible to prove or enforce. Of course having somebody else tell you what to do while playing is cheating, does this have to actually be explained?
This is true... i guess it just occurred to me that this is why online and LAN results sometimes differ so much. We don't really know what goes on from a competitive standpoint unless we see the player as they play.
For 400k... people might even come up with nice hax to help them in the online portion.
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On February 24 2011 08:44 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 08:28 mprs wrote:On February 24 2011 08:23 dsousa wrote:
Question:
If games are played online... what is your policy about having team members watch live while they play and give advice while watching their teammate play. I don't mean watching as in an game observer... i just mean standing behind them giving advice and watching the mini-map
Seems to me this is cheating too....
and certainly, since it does help the players alot, many will have people talking with them while they play the online NASL games.
That would be so distracting it might actually be more negative than positive for a player. It's definitely a positive if the person behind can point out things to you that you may forget and purely watching the mini-map even.
It really make a huge difference. How many times does a player say, have a spotting pylon or an observer positioned correctly to see an in-coming drop but not actually noticing it on the minimap? If you have two pairs of eyes instead of one it's of course a huge benefit and I'm sure most people would agree when I say it's cheating. Seems just one of several problems with an online league as opposed to LAN.
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Hey Xeris, I have another question, will you be inviting players in the event a "famous" player does not sign up? (SlayersBoxer , Nada) I feel that if players like Boxer and Nada are in the tournament, NASL will get even more viewer ship from not only Americans, but also Koreans. Do Koreans have to do the video as well? Also, will the application videos be hidden from the public until the NASL begins , or will NASL make a page on NASL.tv that lists all the players that have signed up so far (with a link to their youtube videos). I would love to see all the application videos as they roll in, so we can see the potential players that will be in the tourney. (Also it will create hype, depending on the answers to the questions  )
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What if a player not on a team gets top four in the open tournament? Are they invited to the next NASL despite not being on a team?
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On February 23 2011 20:05 Enzyme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 19:54 Buddhist wrote:
I don't see how GSL makes it hard for foreigners to compete other than the fact that it's in Korea. That may have been your only point, but GSL has actually taken many measures to make it as easy as possible for foreigners to participate as possible. Foreigners don't have to be top 172 or w/e in korean ladder, 4 of them get free spots in A, etc.
I'm not really saying anything about what NASL's policy should be, I'm just sayin'. GOM sees foreigners as a business opportunity. SC2 is developed enough that Koreans don't mind seeing foreigners, and then they have the huge foreign base that turns up to watch foreigners play (and pay for the stream). There are huge benefits for GOM to support non-koreans entering the GSL. NASL is trying to establish ESPORTS in the west, this will not happen with western audiences if everyone is Korean and can't speak English. The purpose of the back stories in NASL is to build rapport with the players and the audience in order to build up esports in the eyes of western audiences. At this point in time it actually hurts NASL's goals to allow it to become filled with Koreans even if they are technically the best players. Yes, this sounds racist and unfair, but if western audiences wanted to see Koreans play then the OSL would have been broadcast in America already. I'm sure there are many other factors such as regions, timezones and differentiating their product from the GSL, however I think for esports to really get a foothold in the west they do need a strong non-korean player base.
You say if western audiences wanted to see koreans play the osl would have been broadcast in america already. America doesnt really have much of an audience right now for esports, you dont see any sc2 being broadcast on TV so there just isnt much of an audience in general as of right now, im sure if SC was extremely popular and not just a niche market in NA we would see the OSL be broadcast over here
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Hey Xeris, Will paid-for VODS be hosted somewhere other than JTV (this is a request plea)?
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Yea i think there is a huge market not only for north america but for korea as well, by letting koreans into the tournament unbiasedly you are creating a huge market not only for north america but for korea as well. Say you let in slayers_boxer or Nada it would pull a much larger audience in north america then pretty much any north american player would and it would also pull a very large audience in korea. Id say let as many high level korean players in as you can it will result in a much larger profit margin, im not saying all koreans but if 1/3rd of the tournament was big name koreans i dont think anyone would be complaining, i think they would be rejoicing 
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another thing i was wondering, because russ said white ra would not be allowed to play in the nasl, then i read on here that white ra certainly would be allowed to play. Doesnt this set kind of a favouritism to one player that isnt really part of a team but is one of the best, im sure there are other players out there in the same situation, as much as id love to see whitera in this tournament i could see this being a problem or an act of favortism. Although i did read somewhere a while ago that white ra was apart of Mouzsports he just had a private sponsorship as well and uses that as his handle.
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On February 24 2011 06:55 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 06:44 RevRich wrote:
Korean culture supports their 12 hour a day practice marathons and team houses. When American/European players are given the same opportunity (i.e. team houses with 20 computers and 60hr practice weeks) - then I'd like to see a Korean/western mixed tournament. Until then it just seems unfair to throw our pro gamers up against the Koreans who do nothing but play SC2 all day every day. A lot of western players, if not most, do sc2 alongside a normal job or daily responsibility, unlike most Korean professionals. Why do you care more about the nationality of the players than their skill? Should IdrA not be allowed to participate since he had those practice opportunities for a long time, and probably will continue to have them in the US?
I'm not convinced Korean sc2 players are more skilled than American sc2 players. I think the perceived skill gap between the east and west directly correlates to the amount of time spent training, not some inherent Korean gene that makes them better at video games.
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On February 24 2011 09:30 cheesemaster wrote:Yea i think there is a huge market not only for north america but for korea as well, by letting koreans into the tournament unbiasedly you are creating a huge market not only for north america but for korea as well. Say you let in slayers_boxer or Nada it would pull a much larger audience in north america then pretty much any north american player would and it would also pull a very large audience in korea. Id say let as many high level korean players in as you can it will result in a much larger profit margin, im not saying all koreans but if 1/3rd of the tournament was big name koreans i dont think anyone would be complaining, i think they would be rejoicing
The way the voting trend is going right now, Nada might make it. Slayers Boxer won't make the cut however. He only has 10 votes at the moment.. which really confuses me. I thought that "The Emperor" had a little bit more clout than that in the west. Although probably not one of the top individuals on that list, I think he's definitely better than many of people voted above him for sure.
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On February 24 2011 09:51 RevRich wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 06:55 hugman wrote:On February 24 2011 06:44 RevRich wrote:
Korean culture supports their 12 hour a day practice marathons and team houses. When American/European players are given the same opportunity (i.e. team houses with 20 computers and 60hr practice weeks) - then I'd like to see a Korean/western mixed tournament. Until then it just seems unfair to throw our pro gamers up against the Koreans who do nothing but play SC2 all day every day. A lot of western players, if not most, do sc2 alongside a normal job or daily responsibility, unlike most Korean professionals. Why do you care more about the nationality of the players than their skill? Should IdrA not be allowed to participate since he had those practice opportunities for a long time, and probably will continue to have them in the US? I'm not convinced Korean sc2 players are more skilled than American sc2 players. I think the perceived skill gap between the east and west directly correlates to the amount of time spent training, not some inherent Korean gene that makes them better at video games.
I think thats why they should hold prelims for players maybe 200-300 of the best players fromm na europe and korea, see who qualifies and then go fromo there you really would be getting the best players if you did, i could see there being a problem money wise and what not but i hope they do this in the future, holding a 1000 player open where only 1 player makes it for the current season and 3 others for the next is decent but they could make it more based on skill if it was all based on prelims from the begining.
This leads to my question for XERIS, how do you go about picking players from teams who will participate in this tournament? I dont think this question has really be answered yet. Like if 2 players are of equal skill are fighting for the last spot what will be the deciding factor?
Also any team that is accepted is going to want to put as many players as possible in the NASL so they will all try and put 5 players in, what will make you decide that some of their players may not be up to par to be in the tournament? Id hate to see a team with 3 really good players be left out because all the teams are trying to get the maximum amount of players they can into the NASL (wich will obviously be the case). For instance incontrol mentioned he will be in the tournament but if alot of players apply i could see there being 50 players who are better than him (nothing against him hes a great player) will he automatically be awarded a spot because of his status within the NASL? Same goes for Gretorp if he plans to participate.
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On February 24 2011 10:01 aMaJinG wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 09:30 cheesemaster wrote:Yea i think there is a huge market not only for north america but for korea as well, by letting koreans into the tournament unbiasedly you are creating a huge market not only for north america but for korea as well. Say you let in slayers_boxer or Nada it would pull a much larger audience in north america then pretty much any north american player would and it would also pull a very large audience in korea. Id say let as many high level korean players in as you can it will result in a much larger profit margin, im not saying all koreans but if 1/3rd of the tournament was big name koreans i dont think anyone would be complaining, i think they would be rejoicing The way the voting trend is going right now, Nada might make it. Slayers Boxer won't make the cut however. He only has 10 votes at the moment.. which really confuses me. I thought that "The Emperor" had a little bit more clout than that in the west. Although probably not one of the top individuals on that list, I think he's definitely better than many of people voted above him for sure.
They were saying on SOTG that the voting got hacked somehow or spammed. I really hope they dont do it based on votes wich they said they wont be but it could be a small factor.
Edit: A Note On Voting
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On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote:
The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
so there we go i doubt voting will play much of a role at all and im sure if slayers boxer wanted to participate he would be accepted
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On February 24 2011 08:28 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 18:55 Xeris wrote:On February 23 2011 18:50 Dhalphir wrote:On February 23 2011 18:47 Xeris wrote:On February 23 2011 18:38 Dhalphir wrote:
The very fact that we're making such a big deal out of this (while being reasonable and not flaming, which should tell you we aren't just being internet-angry-people) should tell you that this is important. The fact that nobody has said 1 word about the fact that TSL games are not cast live, and there is over 100 pages of people talking about NASL games being cast essentially the same way is confusing to me. Care to explain this? Because the TSL is not claiming to be a North American equivalent of the GSL, it is just a simple tournament being run by one website. In addition, I'm fairly sure the actual TSL itself will be cast live, but even if it isn't, its not on the same scale, and the same expectation does not exist. We also won't be paying for the TSL games. Every TSL event in the past has been cast off replays. The point is that, you're arguing that the "not live" cheapens the affect. However, we have documented proof (in the fact that TSL 1 and TSL 2 were HUGELY successful being cast ENTIRELY off replays, aka NOT live) that an event that is cast "not live" is just as exciting as an event that is cast "live" ... The fact that TSL was free and NASL is not (you can watch NASL free stream so your argument is kind of a moot point because if you're watching NASL live you don't need to pay... if you're watching the VODS, you need to pay, but if you're watching the VOD its already by definition not live) relevant to anything. Honestly, your argument isn't coherent. First you're saying "not live" cheapens the experience. Then I counter with some evidence that shows that "not live" events have just the same amount of interest / excitement. You then say "but that was free and this isn't"... well actually, it is. So, what are you arguing about? Hmm i never knew that the TSL wasnt broadcast live, its the only tournament i havent watched to much but im pretty sure most people thought it was cast live, when i hear of a huge tournament i automatically assume that it is cast live. Most large sc2 tournament are that is just one example of one that isnt, but it also isnt going to be a league i think most people will hold NASL to similair standards of the gsl at least in regards to being broadcast live. A vast majority of the people in this thread have at least a mild problem with the NASL not being brodcast live, you keep brushing it off like its nothing no matter what you say though everyones mind works the same in this regard, it is just not as interesting when it is not broadcast live. Im not saying it wont be succesful because of this but i do think it will be less succesful. Also i think far less people will be willing to pay for a HQ live stream that isnt live. I dont pay for the GSL premium service to watch the VOD's i like watching my events live I pay for the HQ stream so i dont have to watch my live event in rubbish quality.
How would people assume it was live when in the stream it clearly showed people opening replays, lol.
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EPT
