On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
--
I by no means am trying to make NASL look bad (I'm VERY excited for the NASL, and am sure it'll be a huge success), but my honest (and I think fairly logical) interpretation of how players get into NASL was that it's a popularity contest. I mean, the quotes from NASL.tv say it almost verbatim.
Now I'm just confused, and obvious questions are raised:
Is it basically invite-only with popularity playing a role in the invites? If so, how else are invites determined? How can this avoid becoming purely subjective (thus causing the same problems as a popularity contest, making it extremely hard for new faces)?
If 16 spots came from a big open tourney, and 32 came from invites [and then these 48 competed for the final 16 spots], I don't think anyone would be... nervous, shall I say...
--
It's 100% certain that it's not 100% bad, but still, from NASL.tv:
"50 of the world's best players will be featured weekly. Make sure to vote for your favorite player to increase their chances of being chosen for the league!"
"50 players will compete in an online group stage in which 15 players will advance to the Grand Finals, which will be a 16 man LAN event. "
"There will be an Open Tournament where the winner will be awarded a spot at the Grand Finals. "
So only one spot comes from an Open Tournament? You have to be the Grand Champion of a tournament just to QUALIFY for this tournament, unless you win a popularity contest?
:/.
Edit for poll:
Personally, I think all spots should come from an open tourney for the sake of the players. If we're trying to make more appeal for viewers or something, then I think a split between open/popularity might be good.
Poll: Better format
Split between Open/Invite (175)
51%
All spots from open tourney (98)
28%
Split between Open/Invite/Popularity (40)
12%
Split between Open/Popularity (16)
5%
All spots from invites (9)
3%
All spots from popularity contest (5)
1%
Split between Invite/Popularity (3)
1%
346 total votes
Your vote: Better format
(Vote): All spots from open tourney (Vote): All spots from invites (Vote): All spots from popularity contest (Vote): Split between Open/Invite (Vote): Split between Open/Popularity (Vote): Split between Invite/Popularity (Vote): Split between Open/Invite/Popularity
On February 22 2011 09:32 Buddhist wrote: "50 of the world's best players will be featured weekly. Make sure to vote for your favorite player to increase their chances of being chosen for the league!" :/.
This doesn't have to mean that it's entirely based on voting.
That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
It took you less than half an hour to find something to whine about .. Can you just appreciate a $400k tournament in the foreign scene just for a little bit?
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
Uhm, no? Popularity has nothing to do with success.
Well assuming the open tournament is casted, the people in there could get a chance to show themselves. If people like them, they can get on through the voting thing even if they dont win.
On February 22 2011 09:35 bkrow wrote: It took you less than half an hour to find something to whine about .. Can you just appreciate a $400k tournament in the foreign scene just for a little bit?
We've been aware of the NASL for days. I'm very excited about it. It'd be irresponsible to not immediately find the flaws, however.
Imho, the less open the tourney, the worse. It just makes it harder for new players to get anywhere.
Hopefully the format is at least good, ie. BO3 and double elimination from RO16.
And you're wrong...top 15 come from the 50 people playing 1v1. It seems the last spot will be from an open tournament. Not a very good thread...at all. Appreciate the work they're doing and what they're doing for esports. Wow.
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
Uhm, no? Popularity has nothing to do with success.
i dont mind the system, but the poll is flawed, as the first couple of people who got votes were bumped up to the front page and now nobody is going to go down and look at the later pages...
Players of certain nationalities will have an advantage. Americans and Russians (and with Russians I mean Brat_OK looking at the backing he got in the GOM foreign invitees thread ) specifically.
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
Uhm, no? Popularity has nothing to do with success.
On February 22 2011 09:35 bkrow wrote: It took you less than half an hour to find something to whine about .. Can you just appreciate a $400k tournament in the foreign scene just for a little bit?
We've been aware of the NASL for days. I'm very excited about it. It'd be irresponsible to not immediately find the flaws, however.
Imho, the less open the tourney, the worse. It just makes it harder for new players to get anywhere.
Hopefully the format is at least good, ie. BO3 and double elimination from RO16.
Thinking your post on TL.net has anything to do with being responsible is a little bit hilarious..
Anyway - it was just all exciting and then saw a forum post with negativity straight away.. was a bit of a downer.. didn't mean to come across malicious
On February 22 2011 09:35 Skillz_Man wrote: What's the problem of only champions being in the tournament?
You want the biggest league with popular players, that's what you get. Consider that your qualifier; winning a tournament.
Popular players don't mean the best players in the world which is where his concern comes from. If TLOpen has proven anything is that there are so many players in the scene that are overlooked because they are not TLO's, MorroW or Strelok yet they are just as good or possibly better than them. Which is why the whole popularity contest thing will diminish the chances of good/better players not being able to compete.
Yeah, like we wanna see BitByBit or Rain play. Id rather we vote for the good players and let 50% of the rest be newcomers to have a chance at starting their own e-sports career.
I think one of the best things about GSL is tastosis. They just make watching the games so fun. And they have an awesome voice put together. Incontrol is also awesome and strelock is good but noone can compete with tastosis.
Great format, sucks for those too stupid to figure out what "50 players will compete in an online group stage in which 15 players will advance to the Grand Finals, which will be a 16 man LAN event" means though.
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
Uhm, no? Popularity has nothing to do with success.
Thinking your post on TL.net has anything to do with being responsible is a little bit hilarious..
Are you basically saying that TL is a joke and we shouldn't discuss things about eSports here because we have no power?
Also, finding out the flaws =/= posting on TL
This is eSports we're talking about, and it's still in its infancy especially in NA... it should be the best it can be and have the cleanest start possible to ensure a good future.
Edit: Also, what about Koreans? Are none of them on the voting list? Are they saying that Asians will have to compete in that Open Tournament? So basically this is a foreigners' only league?
I'm wary of anything with this kind of voting system, but it's not exactly clear to me what the voting is for. I think it's too early to judge anything too definitively, but suffice to say that new leagues for SC2 are obviously positive.
I think this idea for a starleague is great. However,i feel that the players in the tournament should have to qualify just like gsl. They are picking and choosing.(basing this off an assumption) very disappointing.
Im not really surprised this is a big circle jerk tournament, all the tournaments ran by people associated with sc1 bw always host these tournaments, its cant really be a surprise.
Its going to be really sad when destiny gets in, he couldnt even make top8 at MWC, but he has so many fans he will get voted in
On February 22 2011 09:39 Gigaudas wrote: Why this is a terrible idea:
Players of certain nationalities will have an advantage. Americans and Russians (and with Russians I mean Brat_OK looking at the backing he got in the GOM foreign invitees thread ) specifically.
Brat_OK isn't even on the list of players you can vote for.
I'm disappointed in this setup for the tournament, it's going to be mostly people who aren't at the highest level of the game but just pander to the fans.
Excuse me, I have missed the announcement and I can't find any reference to this on the nasl.tv website, and I have one question: can you vote for Koreans?
so cool they give 1 spot to an open tourney... It's pretty much impossible to win even if ur the best player in the world.. as unfortunate as that is. it is sc2, we wont be seeing any dark horses =/
On February 22 2011 09:35 Skillz_Man wrote: What's the problem of only champions being in the tournament?
You want the biggest league with popular players, that's what you get. Consider that your qualifier; winning a tournament.
Popular players don't mean the best players in the world which is where his concern comes from. If TLOpen has proven anything is that there are so many players in the scene that are overlooked because they are not TLO's, MorroW or Strelok yet they are just as good or possibly better than them. Which is why the whole popularity contest thing will diminish the chances of good/better players not being able to compete.
I'll be honest with you. I'm certain that mostly everyone would prefer to see a player like let's say Tester because he's popular, compared to say ONECruncher who yes, won a TLOpen... But he doesn't have that name. Popularity is everything.
IF you win a MLG or get top 4, you WILL become popular; so there is no problem whatsoever.
do we even know that that is the ONLY way that people will get in? i havent seen any indication that voting is the sole way for a player to make the league
They could have made it a pure invite tournament, but they're taking inputs from the community which is nice. I would have liked to see more open qualifier spots though, like 8 of the last 16, or 16 of the 50. The main problem with pure invite tournaments is that they lead to the same players being selected over and over again. If you want the best players to participate, you should have a way for new players to make a name for themselves. If you look at the TLOpen, quite a few players were relative unknowns before the tournament (Empire.Kas, for example), and since then I've seen them everywhere. These players are more than good enough to compete at the top level, they just need a stage to perform on.
I hope they'll find a way for more than one player to qualify through an open tournament.
Thinking your post on TL.net has anything to do with being responsible is a little bit hilarious..
Are you basically saying that TL is a joke and we shouldn't discuss things about eSports here because we have no power?
Also, finding out the flaws =/= posting on TL
This is eSports we're talking about, and it's still in its infancy especially in NA... it should be the best it can be and have the cleanest start possible to ensure a good future.
Edit: Also, what about Koreans? Are none of them on the voting list? Are they saying that Asians will have to compete in that Open Tournament? So basically this is a foreigners' only league?
According to the interview with iNcontroL, Koreans will probably be able to compete in the open tournament but capped at five. The reason he gives for this is the nasty latency issues as well as physical time-zone limitations. They will also have to be able to physically make the finals, which could pose issues for some Koreans.
Whether or not you think this is fair is another issue. The GSL has the funds and backing to reach out to foreigners, but even they aren't seeded directly into Code S (the top 32) until they prove themselves in Code A. In time, I suspect the NASL may do a similar thing with inviting a few Koreans.
On February 22 2011 09:39 Gigaudas wrote: Why this is a terrible idea:
Players of certain nationalities will have an advantage. Americans and Russians (and with Russians I mean Brat_OK looking at the backing he got in the GOM foreign invitees thread ) specifically.
Brat_OK isn't even on the list of players you can vote for.
You wait and see - it's really late at night in Russia but once goodgame.ru posts a news bulletin Brat_OK will dominate and a lot of other Eastern Europeans will get a boost.
Brat_OK definitely deserves a spot (fingers crossed he won't be stopped by VISA problems again) though
On February 22 2011 09:39 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Popularity =/= success, guys
Look at Idra, he has a bunch of haters, does that mean he isn't very successful? no... He has a bunch of fans too ofc, but so do many other players.
IdrA is probably in the top 5 most popular players of all time. And he most certainly deserves a spot.
You're missing the point.
I disagree. I want to see consistently good players, not players that managed to luckily beat someone in a qualifier.
That aside, the more popular the players playing, the more viewers, the more exposure, the more sponsorship, the more everything good for esports. Plus, there's spots for qualifiers anyway.
OP got a really good point. Hopefully people won't start voting for HD/Husky or some other people who are popular, but not really that good as a players.
edit: The current list looks really awesome though!
Its worth noting players may not be available to vote for because it requires them to be able to commit to fly out to LA for an extended period of time if they make top 15.
I hope inControl and NASL keep a close eye on the 50 player voting system. Everything about the NASL seems rock solid, except this really odd voting part.
Granted the best players will usually be the most popular. But where its going to get messy is with teams. Team liquid for example, will always be voted higher than other teams. There can be some dude who is better team liquid players, but he might just get edged out on votes. Or how bout interteam voting. Max 5 players from each team right? well Huk is one of the most popular Liquid players because of people like Husky and HD. However, there might be a situation that forms where he becomes the 6th best player on TL, but still edges out another TL member for 5th because of his popularity.
All 50 players should earn their spots imo. A Code S/Code A up/Down rotation or something would be ideal.
For the most part, the top 35-40, are cemented. Its the bottom 10-15 I'm worried about. Also, we want good turnover. If a newcomer proves himself, and is the next Flash or something, how easy would it be for him to enter this thing? what if he is not a visible player? what then?
I knew it wouldn't take some people long to start complaining. Can't you people just be thankful for whats put in front of you for once and not have to always complain??
On February 22 2011 09:39 Gigaudas wrote: Why this is a terrible idea:
Players of certain nationalities will have an advantage. Americans and Russians (and with Russians I mean Brat_OK looking at the backing he got in the GOM foreign invitees thread ) specifically.
Brat_OK isn't even on the list of players you can vote for.
You wait and see - it's really late at night in Russia but once goodgame.ru posts a news bulletin Brat_OK will dominate and a lot of other Eastern Europeans will get a boost.
Brat_OK definitely deserves a spot (fingers crossed he won't be stopped by VISA problems again) though
I already added BRAT_OK myself when NASL.TV came up but it's still awaiting moderator approval.
I am OK with it being just a popularity contest and less about qualifying right now, but hopefully in the future it will expand into qualifiers with rank status like GSL.
Really disappointed that you have to get "votes" to be able to get higher chances to get in this league. A player like me is not currently on a team, yet capable and has beaten literally tons of the players on the list.
So yeah, it does seem like a lot of popularity is needed since that is the entire point of a "vote" system. Obviously high profile players are going to have tons of votes, but it makes it very much a popularity contest.
With that said, VOTE FOR ME I WANT TO GET IN THIS LEAGUE AND OWN IT UP. 17th place MLG Raliegh, 12th MLG DC, top 200 on planet earth! Gotta list everything now to get in!
On February 22 2011 09:52 feanor1 wrote: Its worth noting players may not be available to vote for because it requires them to be able to commit to fly out to LA for an extended period of time if they make top 15.
Yeah but paid for so don't waste our time with this junk
On February 22 2011 09:39 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Popularity =/= success, guys
Look at Idra, he has a bunch of haters, does that mean he isn't very successful? no... He has a bunch of fans too ofc, but so do many other players.
IdrA is probably in the top 5 most popular players of all time. And he most certainly deserves a spot.
You're missing the point.
I disagree. I want to see consistently good players, not players that managed to luckily beat someone in a qualifier.
That aside, the more popular the players playing, the more viewers, the more exposure, the more sponsorship, the more everything good for esports. Plus, there's spots for qualifiers anyway.
I'm with this guy. You can win a qualifier by 4 gating half your games and cannon rushing another quarter. (cruncher)
I would much rather see people who we know are going to deliver good games and who have earned the spot over six months rather than one weekend.
edit:
On February 22 2011 09:53 avilo wrote: Really disappointed that you have to get "votes" to be able to get higher chances to get in this league. A player like me is not currently on a team, yet capable and has beaten literally tons of the players on the list.
So yeah, it does seem like a lot of popularity is needed since that is the entire point of a "vote" system. Obviously high profile players are going to have tons of votes, but it makes it very much a popularity contest.
With that said, VOTE FOR ME I WANT TO GET IN THIS LEAGUE AND OWN IT UP.
It explicitly says that you have to be on a team to be in the league, so... you should get on that.
you guys are weird. they never said the players will be picked based solely on the number of votes. they said you can vote for your favorite player to increase his/her chances of being picked. that is kind of big difference.
On February 22 2011 09:54 Lipski wrote: you guys are weird. they never said the players will be picked based solely on the number of votes. they said you can vote for your favorite player to increashe his/her chances of being picked. that is kind of big difference.
Incorrect, it;s pretty much exactly how they're picked.
On February 22 2011 09:53 avilo wrote: Really disappointed that you have to get "votes" to be able to get higher chances to get in this league. A player like me is not currently on a team, yet capable and has beaten literally tons of the players on the list.
So yeah, it does seem like a lot of popularity is needed since that is the entire point of a "vote" system. Obviously high profile players are going to have tons of votes, but it makes it very much a popularity contest.
With that said, VOTE FOR ME I WANT TO GET IN THIS LEAGUE AND OWN IT UP.
on top of that, qualifying is nigh impossible even for the best... only 1 spot... also being on a team seems kind of dumb to get in the league. It forces players who are waiting for better deals to settle for something they aren't looking for just to play. Doesn't offer any opportunities for upstart players. a 1000 man open tourney is not a chance at all. Bomber couldn't even qualify for the GSL and yet hes probably more capable then 98% of the GSL players and he had a better chance to qualify then he would have with this setup. They really really need to fix qualification process.
Understanding this a little more, i think it's actually a reasonable system but could do with a few tweaks. I'm still not keen on the popularity contest part, but you obviously need some way to decide who gets in for the first season ("da ends justify da means?) Still, i'd prefer to see the qualifier spots increased to at least four, preferably even six or eight.
The important thing, in my opinion, is how it leads into season two. There needs to be a reasonable promotion/relegation kind of system to enable up-and-coming players their chance to shine. If it's capped at one new guy (or, if it's done like GSL, potentially zero new guys) per season then it stifles competition. I guess there's nothing official on that yet though, so fingers crossed...
Feel bad for swedish and ukraine players that arnt sjow and morrow and white -ra and dimaga, no one to vote for kas,strelok, nani and thorzain merz etc etc
On February 22 2011 09:54 Lipski wrote: you guys are weird. they never said the players will be picked based solely on the number of votes. they said you can vote for your favorite player to increashe his/her chances of being picked. that is kind of big difference.
Incorrect, it;s pretty much exactly how they're picked.
What's your source for that? Where does anyone say that this is the only factor in who gets a spot?
On February 22 2011 09:53 avilo wrote: Really disappointed that you have to get "votes" to be able to get higher chances to get in this league. A player like me is not currently on a team, yet capable and has beaten literally tons of the players on the list.
So yeah, it does seem like a lot of popularity is needed since that is the entire point of a "vote" system. Obviously high profile players are going to have tons of votes, but it makes it very much a popularity contest.
With that said, VOTE FOR ME I WANT TO GET IN THIS LEAGUE AND OWN IT UP.
Avilo, I respect you as a player, but don't you think if you win a decent size tournament or rank high you will gain popularity and wont go unoticed?
All popular players that are popular are good; with the exceptions of the ones with whacky personalities, or CombatEX.
Not popular players need to work to be popular. Whether it's winning a big tournament, or streaming for TL etc.
On February 22 2011 09:53 avilo wrote: Really disappointed that you have to get "votes" to be able to get higher chances to get in this league. A player like me is not currently on a team, yet capable and has beaten literally tons of the players on the list.
So yeah, it does seem like a lot of popularity is needed since that is the entire point of a "vote" system. Obviously high profile players are going to have tons of votes, but it makes it very much a popularity contest.
With that said, VOTE FOR ME I WANT TO GET IN THIS LEAGUE AND OWN IT UP. 17th place MLG Raliegh, 12th MLG DC, top 200 on planet earth! Gotta list everything now to get in!
coz nobody wants to see tvt 1h+ game on metal with 50tanks vs 50 tanks ; d
On February 22 2011 09:53 avilo wrote: Really disappointed that you have to get "votes" to be able to get higher chances to get in this league. A player like me is not currently on a team, yet capable and has beaten literally tons of the players on the list.
So yeah, it does seem like a lot of popularity is needed since that is the entire point of a "vote" system. Obviously high profile players are going to have tons of votes, but it makes it very much a popularity contest.
With that said, VOTE FOR ME I WANT TO GET IN THIS LEAGUE AND OWN IT UP. 17th place MLG Raliegh, 12th MLG DC, top 200 on planet earth! Gotta list everything now to get in!
I am sure you are talented... but the rules say you must be on a team..
On February 22 2011 09:54 Lipski wrote: you guys are weird. they never said the players will be picked based solely on the number of votes. they said you can vote for your favorite player to increashe his/her chances of being picked. that is kind of big difference.
Incorrect, it;s pretty much exactly how they're picked.
That's a bold statement you are making there - one that i fear is incorrect..
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
TLO is 4th. He's far from 4th in the world in actual skill, but he's so creative that he's popular. CatZ also is way higher than where he should be, as is Kiwikaki, QXC, Destiny, Demuslim, Dimaga...
Overall, if they choose the players via voting it's going to be really unfair. TLO for instance isn't even in the top 16 imo but is creative, whereas there are players like Morrow that are less popular but who I'd still pick over many of those players any day of the week.
That being said, still excited about this tournament. I still don't think that players should be chosen with voting, and that qualifiers should be ran. Everyone needs a chance, even if they aren't currently well-known.
Wow, please read the interview with incontrol abut NASL before you bother posting anything about how shit's gonna be. They're hoping for 3-4 max 5 players from the biggest teams in the western scene, matches will be played on NA server from April 5th or so and due to the nature of there being insane lag issues with this, koreans will have a hard time participating. So the votes is more or less an estimate of which players to choose from the biggest teams.
Seriously do research before you post dumb shit on this forum, please.
Only the people that dislike the system are gonna post here so the numbers seem kinda messed up, why not have a poll, to decide what people really think?
Poll: Do you like the NASL way of picking players?
No (59)
53%
Yes (35)
31%
Don't Care (Just want good games) (18)
16%
112 total votes
Your vote: Do you like the NASL way of picking players?
(Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): Don't Care (Just want good games)
On February 22 2011 09:53 avilo wrote: Really disappointed that you have to get "votes" to be able to get higher chances to get in this league. A player like me is not currently on a team, yet capable and has beaten literally tons of the players on the list.
So yeah, it does seem like a lot of popularity is needed since that is the entire point of a "vote" system. Obviously high profile players are going to have tons of votes, but it makes it very much a popularity contest.
With that said, VOTE FOR ME I WANT TO GET IN THIS LEAGUE AND OWN IT UP. 17th place MLG Raliegh, 12th MLG DC, top 200 on planet earth! Gotta list everything now to get in!
I bet I could beat you in a popularity contest avilo!! LOL
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
On one side, yeah it could be bad because we could have Husky in the tournament if his fans voted for him. On a positive side we get the people we want in it.
But yeah I wish they'd find a somewhat better format.
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
TLO is 4th. He's far from 4th in the world in actual skill, but he's so creative that he's popular. CatZ also is way higher than where he should be, as is Kiwikaki, QXC, Destiny, Demuslim, Dimaga...
Overall, if they choose the players via voting it's going to be really unfair. TLO for instance isn't even in the top 16 but is creative, whereas there are players like Morrow that are less popular but who I'd still pick over many of those players any day of the week.
That being said, still excited about this tournament. I still don't think that players should be chosen with voting, and that qualifiers should be ran. Everyone needs a chance, even if they aren't currently well-known.
I would rather watch creative, interesting, and exciting play rather than see piqliq cannon rush his way to the top of the ladder. Or than see Morrow do the exact same build every single game. Being a boring but solid player is just that - boring but solid. They can go win open tournaments but they don't make for exciting TV.
I honestly hope votes have nothing to do with the player selection. Yes, some of those top voted players are the most accomplished (IdrA, Jinro, etc.) but many are not -- they're just well-liked.
Well-liked players should not take precedence to good players. This also means people who can win the qualification tournament should carry more weight than those who just get a free pass in for their name.
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
Uhm, no? Popularity has nothing to do with success.
I say we just take 1 year, take top 5000 from each server, then just keep putting them in X groups and round robin bo7 until you whittle down to the top 15. That way we won't have to worry about invites vs qualifiers vs popularity votes!
Why do I have to force myself to be a politician to have a higher chance to qualify into this league, rather than the merits of my own play? That's not just for me either, there are TONS of amazing players right now, and the way this is obviously favors the ones that are already very well known.
We'll have to wait and see whether this is a bad idea or not. If someone is left out while another fan favorite who might not be as good gets voted in, then sure. Not all fan favorites are the best, but with 50 parcipants, I don't think many of the best will be left out.
i think this hurts the competitiveness although obviously, on average, the most competitive players will get in but seriously this is like american idol. i can imagine some undeserving players slipping in and some seriously legit but less popular players getting snubbed
On February 22 2011 09:52 feanor1 wrote: Its worth noting players may not be available to vote for because it requires them to be able to commit to fly out to LA for an extended period of time if they make top 15.
Yeah but paid for so don't waste our time with this junk
Its not fully paid for, and BratOK has missed multiple....multiple tournaments with visa issues.
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
TLO is 4th. He's far from 4th in the world in actual skill, but he's so creative that he's popular. CatZ also is way higher than where he should be, as is Kiwikaki, QXC, Destiny, Demuslim, Dimaga...
Overall, if they choose the players via voting it's going to be really unfair. TLO for instance isn't even in the top 16 but is creative, whereas there are players like Morrow that are less popular but who I'd still pick over many of those players any day of the week.
That being said, still excited about this tournament. I still don't think that players should be chosen with voting, and that qualifiers should be ran. Everyone needs a chance, even if they aren't currently well-known.
I would rather watch creative, interesting, and exciting play rather than see piqliq cannon rush his way to the top of the ladder. Or than see Morrow do the exact same build every single game. Being a boring but solid player is just that - boring but solid. They can go win open tournaments but they don't make for exciting TV.
Morrow a boring player? He's pretty much been re-inventing Zerg these past months. Also, "creative interesting and exciting play" often happens to be cannon-rushing and cheese. I'm not sure why a TLO cannon rush and Piqliq cannon rush are any different.
If you want to see exciting play instead of people playing to win, you can watch funday monday.
don't get me wrong, i am extremely excited about this, however after reading this, it sounds like an in-group only clubhouse where the people already making a living off of SC2 are just re-entrenching themselves...
have an open tournament, don't make this a "friends of incontrol and nazgul only" tournament, thats horrible. you say you're open to constructive criticism, during that interview, let's see how open. can me and my master league buddies start a team and secure some spots in this tournament if we each pull together $250? no? well then it sounds like you guys are afraid of competition and want to take this 400K and run with it. that's a shame and a pity.
you guys want to use this as a player driven league? to improve the skills of western e-sports? well then give us something to strive for. right now i see money being showered upon the people that are already big names - and great, they deserve compensation, but make them fight for it, don't give it to them guaranteed and leave everyone else out in the cold. seriously im disappointed.
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
TLO is 4th. He's far from 4th in the world in actual skill, but he's so creative that he's popular. CatZ also is way higher than where he should be, as is Kiwikaki, QXC, Destiny, Demuslim, Dimaga...
Overall, if they choose the players via voting it's going to be really unfair. TLO for instance isn't even in the top 16 imo but is creative, whereas there are players like Morrow that are less popular but who I'd still pick over many of those players any day of the week.
That being said, still excited about this tournament. I still don't think that players should be chosen with voting, and that qualifiers should be ran. Everyone needs a chance, even if they aren't currently well-known.
What? You are saying that there are players that should replace KiWiKaKi, qxc, and Dimaga?
The others I guess can be understood since they haven't had much tournament success (and destiny really just plain doesnt deserve a spot because of his fan base), but Kiwi, qxc, and dimaga are all insanely good players. They have shown that countless times in tournaments and have been at the top for a long time. I'd go so far as to say that Kiwi and qxc are without a doubt a couple of the best players in NA period, and DIMAGA has also shown he is a top zerg.
On February 22 2011 10:00 avilo wrote: Why do I have to force myself to be a politician to have a higher chance to qualify into this league, rather than the merits of my own play? That's not just for me either, there are TONS of amazing players right now, and the way this is obviously favors the ones that are already very well known.
Why do you look at it that way?
IF you're so good, if you join enough tourneys... I'm sure you can win a TLOpen. Top places in MLG... Just consider that your qualifier. Even if you may be better, watching "no names" generally isn't fun to watch, because you don't know much about them etc.
On February 22 2011 10:00 avilo wrote: Why do I have to force myself to be a politician to have a higher chance to qualify into this league, rather than the merits of my own play? That's not just for me either, there are TONS of amazing players right now, and the way this is obviously favors the ones that are already very well known.
There are huge problems with GSL style qualifier tournaments as well. For example, ST.Bomber is supposed to be one of the best players in korea, but he lost to someone else who could easily beast through code A in the qualifier. If the best two players happen to be in the same part of the bracket, one of them won't get in.
Not to mention the fact that it's easy to cheese or 4 gate your way in through a qualifier tournament.
Or would you rather all 50 spots be based purely on incontrol and gretorp's personal opinions of who is good and who isn't? I think giving the community some input is much better than having it be purely invite-only, that's going to favor better-known players too but it will just play to the biases of a few people rather than let in the players who earn their fans.
On February 22 2011 10:00 avilo wrote: Why do I have to force myself to be a politician to have a higher chance to qualify into this league, rather than the merits of my own play? That's not just for me either, there are TONS of amazing players right now, and the way this is obviously favors the ones that are already very well known.
Why do you look at it that way?
IF you're so good, if you join enough tourneys... I'm sure you can win a TLOpen. Top places in MLG... Just consider that your qualifier. Even if you may be better, watching "no names" generally isn't fun to watch, because you don't know much about them etc.
dark horses are always fun., and one spot? why bother. It's a toss up. there is almost no way for upstart players to get in this. Its very disappointing, you cant just have a huge 1000 man tourney for 1 spot. Its completely terrible. Look at the gsl.. there are many many spots open from qualifications every month. and some of the best players struggle just to qualify there. But this... i doubt even some of the best people in the league could "win" a 1000 man tourney for a spot. + being required to be in a team? tt
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
TLO is 4th. He's far from 4th in the world in actual skill, but he's so creative that he's popular. CatZ also is way higher than where he should be, as is Kiwikaki, QXC, Destiny, Demuslim, Dimaga...
Overall, if they choose the players via voting it's going to be really unfair. TLO for instance isn't even in the top 16 imo but is creative, whereas there are players like Morrow that are less popular but who I'd still pick over many of those players any day of the week.
That being said, still excited about this tournament. I still don't think that players should be chosen with voting, and that qualifiers should be ran. Everyone needs a chance, even if they aren't currently well-known.
What? You are saying that there are players that should replace KiWiKaKi, qxc, and Dimaga?
The others I guess can be understood since they haven't had much tournament success (and destiny really just plain doesnt deserve a spot because of his fan base), but Kiwi, qxc, and dimaga are all insanely good players. They have shown that countless times in tournaments and have been at the top for a long time. I'd go so far as to say that Kiwi and qxc are without a doubt a couple of the best players in NA period, and DIMAGA has also shown he is a top zerg.
Top NA players, maybe. Dimaga hasn't really accomplished anything recently, QXC has always been rather mediocre everywhere(And was only like top 16 in assembly), Kiwikaki is hit or miss yeah.
Still, there's numerous European players like Kas, Thorzain, Sjow, Brat_OK and so on and so on that are less known but I definitely wouldn't say they're less skilled.
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
TLO is 4th. He's far from 4th in the world in actual skill, but he's so creative that he's popular. CatZ also is way higher than where he should be, as is Kiwikaki, QXC, Destiny, Demuslim, Dimaga...
Overall, if they choose the players via voting it's going to be really unfair. TLO for instance isn't even in the top 16 but is creative, whereas there are players like Morrow that are less popular but who I'd still pick over many of those players any day of the week.
That being said, still excited about this tournament. I still don't think that players should be chosen with voting, and that qualifiers should be ran. Everyone needs a chance, even if they aren't currently well-known.
I would rather watch creative, interesting, and exciting play rather than see piqliq cannon rush his way to the top of the ladder. Or than see Morrow do the exact same build every single game. Being a boring but solid player is just that - boring but solid. They can go win open tournaments but they don't make for exciting TV.
The thing is, having the same players in every tournament also doesn't make for exciting TV. You need underdogs and darkhorses, you need to have uncertainty in a tournament for really exciting TV. That's the most important thing for me actually. You'll have great players in the tournament regardless if you invite them or have them qualify. The only difference is that roughly the same great players will take part if you invite the players based loosely on popularity, while a more diverse selection of great players will participate if you have them qualify on their own skills.
EDIT:
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
Just to add, I have no problem with the voting thing. Like I said earlier, it's nice that you actually listen to the community and not just invite players you choose. Obviously you guys are not going to invite HD if his 400,000 subscribers vote for him, but by and large, it allows the community to participate in choosing the players.
My problem is with inviting almost all the players, regardless of the source of the invitations. You can't invite a "darkhorse." The only way a player will really be considered an darkhorse is if he unexpectedly manages to qualify on his own strength.
Someone mentioned the problem with open qualifiers using ST.Bomber as an example earlier. It might be difficult for players like ST.Bomber to qualify through a massive tournament, but it's even more difficult to get an invite without big leagues that have open qualifications. Take someone like MKP in GSL S2. If that was an invitational, he would not have qualified, and might never have gotten the popularity needed to get into the GSL.
Where does it officially state that the NASL will definitively pick the top 49 vote-getters to participate in the league? I interpret the voting procedure as "increasing their chances" to be picked. That does not read, "the top vote-getters WILL get picked". All this does is give the organizers more data to look at than just tournament wins, tv appearances, clan war appearances, etc.
But I'm 100% sure we'll get this "technicality" answered soon.
On February 22 2011 10:00 avilo wrote: Why do I have to force myself to be a politician to have a higher chance to qualify into this league, rather than the merits of my own play? That's not just for me either, there are TONS of amazing players right now, and the way this is obviously favors the ones that are already very well known.
There are huge problems with GSL style qualifier tournaments as well. For example, ST.Bomber is supposed to be one of the best players in korea, but he lost to someone else who could easily beast through code A in the qualifier. If the best two players happen to be in the same part of the bracket, one of them won't get in.
Not to mention the fact that it's easy to cheese or 4 gate your way in through a qualifier tournament.
Or would you rather all 50 spots be based purely on incontrol and gretorp's personal opinions of who is good and who isn't? I think giving the community some input is much better than having it be purely invite-only, that's going to favor better-known players too but it will just play to the biases of a few people rather than let in the players who earn their fans.
Marineking was unknown outside of the ladder and then he beasted his way to the finals in season 2 of the GSL. Making the invites voting based ensures something like this will never happen.
with destiny in top10 above players WAY better than him... sure i'd definitly say it's just a populary contest... i owuldn't be surprised to see him make top3 in terms of votes his following is quite large
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
Guys please vote for CatZ.. even though I'm not a huge fan and I would never want to play like him I think he could still bring some interesting games to the table
On February 22 2011 09:34 quiggy wrote: Implying the most popular Players aren't the players we want to see play.
steven bonnell is top10 in votes..
oh god... no offense to destiny and his fans but seriously i dont want to watch a player i regularly beat on ladder play on the big stage... i cant imagine myself getting hyped for any match of his
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
That is good news! I don't think anyone is trying to make it a bad thing at all, they're pointing out that lots of the lesser known but equally good players will get shafted by this type of voting system !
I was about to say something negatively about the whole popularity thing, but it does make some sense. The NASL will be aiming to be one of the most prestigious tournaments in the world, where some of the best and most popular players will compete for the prizepool. To do this, most of the spots, if not, all of them needs to be closed and seeded with more well known players than random half-ass. This does close off any new blood, but they need to prove their worth in smaller tournaments before going for something as big as the NASL.
lulz i hope they only take the votes as suggestions, not as a deciding factor who to invite. (Steven Bonnell in top5 srsly?) If they choose to invite players only based off votes, that would be very underwhelming...
Edit:
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
On February 22 2011 10:01 Xeris wrote: Who said we're picking players entirely from this vote?
The fact that you are picking at all creates a point of contention. A fully open tourney can lead to bad games like the first few seasons of the GSL, but having handpicked players leads to scrutiny and a stagnant player base.
I can see it working if the 1000 man open tourney is streamed after the ro16, so that we can see who is playing really well, and those top 16 have a shot at getting in to the 50 regulars in the next season. There has to be some way for players who are performing really well to break in to the league, regardless of how many open spots there are during a season.
On February 22 2011 10:00 avilo wrote: Why do I have to force myself to be a politician to have a higher chance to qualify into this league, rather than the merits of my own play? That's not just for me either, there are TONS of amazing players right now, and the way this is obviously favors the ones that are already very well known.
There are huge problems with GSL style qualifier tournaments as well. For example, ST.Bomber is supposed to be one of the best players in korea, but he lost to someone else who could easily beast through code A in the qualifier. If the best two players happen to be in the same part of the bracket, one of them won't get in.
Not to mention the fact that it's easy to cheese or 4 gate your way in through a qualifier tournament.
Or would you rather all 50 spots be based purely on incontrol and gretorp's personal opinions of who is good and who isn't? I think giving the community some input is much better than having it be purely invite-only, that's going to favor better-known players too but it will just play to the biases of a few people rather than let in the players who earn their fans.
Marineking was unknown outside of the ladder and then he beasted his way to the finals in season 2 of the GSL. Making the invites voting based ensures something like this will never happen.
That's not the same in the foreigner scene... if marineking was in NA/EU he would have won several craftcups, a TLopen or two, placed high in some MLGs - korea just has far fewer non-gsl tournaments that we ever hear about.
Also the players are not based on voting, this thread should probably be closed.
Come on people, vote for the big time GSL competitors. If this is going to be awesome it needs the best players to take part. That means the Nestea's, MVPs, MCs, and the like of the world need to be invited, even if it means they have to deal with latency for the group stage.
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
To my mind, that implies that this is basically just an invite tournament with a bit of "LET THE PUBLIC DECIDE" marketing spiel. Don't get me wrong, i want this to be awesome, but this system seems far from perfect.
On February 22 2011 09:32 Buddhist wrote: It's 100% certain that it's not 100% bad, but still, from NASL.tv:
"50 of the world's best players will be featured weekly. Make sure to vote for your favorite player to increase their chances of being chosen for the league!"
"50 players will compete in an online group stage in which 15 players will advance to the Grand Finals, which will be a 16 man LAN event. "
"There will be an Open Tournament where the winner will be awarded a spot at the Grand Finals. "
So only one spot comes from an Open Tournament? You have to be the Grand Champion of a tournament just to QUALIFY for this tournament, unless you win a popularity contest?
:/.
I could be misguided but I don't think voting will be an issue. The players that are going to dominate the season and tournament aren't going to be starving for votes. A relatively obscure player who doesn't get voted in probably doesn't have a chance in the grand finals anyway. This could change, however.
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
the fact that any selecting is involved by anyone scares me but ill just have to put faith in you guys
i think a grind it out league would be far more entertaining personally
Geoff I know you're reading this.. Is there anything you can say about the sponsors and about replays? I haven't heard a word of any Doritos or Hot Pockets and then the replays seem to be at least delayed.. Will the replays ever be released? The organization seems to be based around the fans and as a fan we would at least want the replays released EVENTUALLY =D
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
Read this and stop complaining people. They just want to get your favorite players in the tournament so that YOU can watch them.
This is going to sound stupid... but I i think a way to open up the tournament to lesser known players would be to allow for 5 of the potential 50 spots as voted on my the public to be vacated of that function (presumably the bottom 5 in voting) and instead replaced by auto selecting the top 5 people from the NA (specifically NA) ladder that are not already in the top 45.
Doing so would give the unknowns at least some chance, as well as give non NA players an incentive to ladder on NA (and increase its viability of a competitive ladder realm as opposed to a joke).
Just a thought...though you run the risk of seeing PiQLiQ lol.
edit: if it's not decided by this voting process...then pure invitation also disallows newcomers tbh...
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
You left out StrifeCro btw, and he's on your team.
Stop assuming everything is to make this bad. We just finished watching a high-school production of an announcement thats been hyped for months. Then we're told to vote for our favorite players, so we assumed it was a popularity contest. "Third, we will listen to our audience. The community never ceases to amaze us with its ingenuity and determination. We think if we keep you close, we can’t go wrong. And last of all, we must remember why we do this: for the love of the game. " By telling us to stop saying negative things, you are going about what NASL.TV is all about. No one is complaining about NASL.TV, everyone loves it. They just want it to be perfect.
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
Read this and stop complaining people. They just want to get your favorite players in the tournament so that YOU can watch them.
Don't think people would raise this issue if it was clear on the NASL website tbh. Excellent news nevertheless
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
To my mind, that implies that this is basically just an invite tournament with a bit of "LET THE PUBLIC DECIDE" marketing spiel. Don't get me wrong, i want this to be awesome, but this system seems far from perfect.
There is no perfect system for tournaments. Expecting any tournament structure to be perfect is asking to be let down.
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
Thanks man. I highly doubt that the invites are only going to be based on this voting system. I just feel kinda worried for the european scene that the "well known" players only get invites/votes. As you can see in the tl qualifiers there are many unkown good ones out here, so would be nice if you take some advices from european casters/progamers. Players like slider/kuba/nerchio/insolence/tod/goody/happy/stephano/naniwa... might not get so many votes but still are considerable. Anyways purely ecstatic for this event! Really like your effort to geht the european scene participating/watching!
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
I agree that its a fun thing. I'm very disappointed that players are being 'selected' and not having to grind through preliminaries like they would have to in korea.
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
There will always be naysayers and people looking for something to criticise, don't let the loud minority get to you.
This announcement is awesome, you guys are awesome for putting this thing together for us. I love the system you're trying to implement, with the extended divisions, the backstories, the community involvement. Don't let the haters get to you and focus on the good feedback, man. :D
"50 players will compete in an online group stage in which 15 players will advance to the Grand Finals, which will be a 16 man LAN event. "
I guess IdrA was already chosen? or is that a typo.
I don't understand the addition to the quote but the quote means 15 people will advance from their 10 man groups and then 1 player will win a 1024 player online tournament and also participate in the LAN event.
As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
To be honest, there are barely 50 "top" level players on EU and US combined. It's not really a bad decision to make it based off invites. If players want to get known and are actually good, they should at least be pretty high up on ladder since that would be their main form of practice, and I don't see many unknowns in the top 200 in the world. People bring up the "unknowns" that have won the TL qualifiers, but those players have been pretty high up on the EU ladder. The list of good players, players who actually deserve $100K, is pretty short.
But then I saw Destiny is in the top 5, so I rescind my above opinion that voting is a good idea. I respect Destiny, think his stream and commentary is great, but do not think he is a top level player. If Day9 entered the running, I'm sure he would also get a ton of votes. And as much as I like Day9, I don't think he or others are deserving of an invite based on popularity alone.
A popularity contest to begin with is not such a bad idea, since realistically you want to make ends meet and that means maximizing viewers, which lends itself to pleasing what the crowds want. In the long-term, though, I'd love to see most of the players come from rigorous qualifiers so as to promote the US competitive scene.
On February 22 2011 10:13 ImHuko wrote: Stop assuming everything is to make this bad. We just finished watching a high-school production of an announcement thats been hyped for months. Then we're told to vote for our favorite players, so we assumed it was a popularity contest. "Third, we will listen to our audience. The community never ceases to amaze us with its ingenuity and determination. We think if we keep you close, we can’t go wrong. And last of all, we must remember why we do this: for the love of the game. " By telling us to stop saying negative things, you are going about what NASL.TV is all about. No one is complaining about NASL.TV, everyone loves it. They just want it to be perfect.
I think he means stop turning every little thing into a big 8 page freakout. Just have fun with the voting and enjoy the games (which is what they mean by "We think if we keep you close, we can’t go wrong.")
So who are the people who actually review these youtube videos and pick the players that participate in the NASL? Is it top secret so they don't get too much hate? :D
guys the best players will be in for sure.... dont worry so i dont see the problem on getting some popular players in cause they will bring more viewers dont you think ?
only thing i think should change is that there should be more spots for open tournament people to qualify at least for first season cmon..
dont you guys want more people to try get in ? you have to give them a change to make more people embrace starcraft 2 as a eSport
cmon people like poker cause they all think they got a chance to win and 1 open tournament with 1000 ppl doesnt seem a lot of chances in it for new guys trying to prove themselfs
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
well, according to the interview, the selection process is already "down to a T" or was that a misquote? are we to wait for more announcements regarding the qualifying process, because all we know so far is teams seem to have priority, you can get american idol'd on, or you can be the king 4gater out of 1000 and get a shot against the big boys who will swiftly run through your match history and know everything about you....
just have an open qualifier with swiss rounds and cut to the top 32, then have 32 slots for teams that qualified at least 1 player in the top 32 and u can keep all the politics and butt-kissing for those slots, but seriously if top caliber players know outright that they have NO chance at this tournament, they will mock, laugh, and claim its illegitimacy all day and night, the audience will take note, and you wont get the viewers you need. this was a big mistake, please correct it, there's still time, just say tomorrow "of course there's open slots, there were gonna be open slots all the time, quit yer bitching guyz"
On February 22 2011 10:01 Xeris wrote: Who said we're picking players entirely from this vote?
And how will you decide if e.g. a famous caster gets 100k votes from his community and ranked at first place?
The votes are obviously a way to get the community involved and to make the organisers look at someone to consider an invite.
They'll look at his team and professional history. They'll look at his ladder ranking. They'll look at his previous tournament appearances.
If all those are sufficient to call him one of the 50 best players who applied, invite him to play.
In the case of Destiny (who you are talking about, I suspect) he wouldn't make 2 of the 3. Probably not even the ladder since he's not even Top 100 in his region.
With the amount of actual talent this prize pool will attract, he is simply not a valid invite, popularity or not.
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
well, according to the interview, the selection process is already "down to a T" or was that a misquote? are we to wait for more announcements regarding the qualifying process, because all we know so far is teams seem to have priority, you can get american idol'd on, or you can be the king 4gater out of 1000 and get a shot against the big boys who will swiftly run through your match history and know everything about you....
just have an open qualifier with swiss rounds and cut to the top 32, then have 32 slots for teams that qualified at least 1 player in the top 32 and u can keep all the politics and butt-kissing for those slots, but seriously if top caliber players know outright that they have NO chance at this tournament, they will mock, laugh, and claim its illegitimacy all day and night, the audience will take note, and you wont get the viewers you need. this was a big mistake, please correct it, there's still time, just say tomorrow "of course there's open slots, there were gonna be open slots all the time, quit yer bitching guyz"
If at any stage you thought players would solely get chosen based on this vote.. then you have very little faith in the amount of effort that would have been put into an enterprise such as NASL..
They were looking to get the community involved and somehow it got turned into a shitstorm .. Now that iNcontrol has made it clear; the vote is just an indicator... i don't see why we need to be all mad of this non existent popularity contest..
I cannot believe the people who are bagging on this announcement. This is F'ing HUGE. Everyone outside of Korea has waited years and years for this. Yes, I am aware that whatever format this tourny is in it will have flaws. But you know what, these guys are gamers just like the rest of us. Are our memories that shortsighted to try and remember what we had before? NOTHING.
Get off your high horses and get behind this or it will fail. At least they arent Kespa and say "STFU you have no opinion and you do as we say". No, on the NASL.TV page it says that the community involvement will be great. So, again, stop acting like jackass's and start making it bigger and better than korea. We all have dreams.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
That's life though. It's the same in any field of work. If you start placing well in every other event you will become popular, it's as simple as that.
As long as the vote is just a factor in the equation, then I am all for some community input. But it would be crazy to see a forum vote being the dominant thing in selecting the player pool.
Here is the awesome interview that Geoff did that really explains everything better. He talks about the selection process in more detail as well. Sounds awesome!
"50 players will compete in an online group stage in which 15 players will advance to the Grand Finals, which will be a 16 man LAN event. "
I guess IdrA was already chosen? or is that a typo.
I don't understand the addition to the quote but the quote means 15 people will advance from their 10 man groups and then 1 player will win a 1024 player online tournament and also participate in the LAN event.
Ahh thanks for clearing that up and what do you mean 'addition to the quote'? I just bolded the numbers.
I took my votes back once i saw MC, Nestea and MVP were on the second page, and gave the votes to them.
No im not some "KOREA IS BEST!" guy but i wanna see the best players, or at least use my votes to say that i want the best players, and i dont care if they are from Korea, Nigeria, USA or Japan.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If you think you're one of the top 50 players outside of Korea, then go out and win a few tourneys, join a team, and get your name out there. Failing that, if you think you're one of the top 50 players outside of Korea, it should be no problem for you to take down the open qualifier.
Beating someone once is fine and good, but there's a reason important match-ups are decided in best of 3-7 games...so that a fluke doesn't determine the outcome.
And to people complaining about not being able to get in unless your a well known player This is a quote from Incontrol in an interview on G4 about the qualification process:
Can you talk more about the qualification process?
Yeah absolutely. Russ, from GosuCoaching, is the mastermind behind this whole thing and has this whole thing mapped out to a T. There is no teams, but every team is going to be maxed out at five players. There's not going to be like nine Evil Geniuses guys or eight Liquid guys. It will be five of the best from every team at most. Most likely it will be three or four of the players from each team. And then every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
Each team player will be put in a different division, so no one will hit a member of their team in their division so there will be no HuK vs. Ret in divisional play. And then it will take over the course of nine weeks in their division and the top two advance. And then with that top two there's another qualification process as well. Ten players per division will play, it takes nine weeks to play everyone in their division. There is also a playoff week where we decide the other 5 seats into the finals (10 seeds form divisional play, 5 from playoffs and one from open).
We're also going to have an open tournament so even the people that aren't qualifiers from this they're also going to be able to enter a 1,000 man open tournament and then the number one player from that is in the final sixteen. So it's kind of cool. Definitely team generated in the sense that if you're on a top professional team, if you're one of the top fifty non-Koreans in this tournament, but even if you're not, you can prove your worth through the open. And the second and third and fourth place people will also get rewards from the open. The second one gets flown to the offline final in LA and they're the first replacement. So if someone can't make it for Visa issues, they get sick, or they just don't show, which would be ludicrous, that person is the first one in line. And then third and fourth get auto birthed into season two.
On February 22 2011 09:36 deerpark87 wrote: where can i vote oGsMC/IMMVP/Nestea? I can't seem to be able to vote for the best players.
this.
sorry but this is just another EG masters cup to me
Well at least you know when to be sorry for having a bad opinion. Comparing EG masters cup to a tournament going for 9+ weeks 5 days a week for 3 hours a night with 100k for season 1, 100k for season 2, and 200k for season three? With 50 of the games top players?
I know I'm not the only one when I say I'm not worried about bad players making it into those 50 spots, but rather great players not making it due to low exposure. There are tons of people that float in and out of the top200 on ladder who are PHENOMENAL players.
What's more, this defies the very spirit of eSports. One of the best parts about eSports is that everybody gets to compete with the best of the best. Not many people get to play basketball with LeBron, but how cool is it that I may get matched up against TLO or Jinro in a tournament? Certainly, I myself may get crushed, but I still got to be part of the path that led player X to win the whole thing.
Basically, by separating the pros/popular players from the rest of us, you're benefiting nobody but those players and creating a debilitating divide within the community.
On February 22 2011 10:33 DyEnasTy wrote: And to people complaining about not being able to get in unless your a well known player This is a quote from Incontrol in an interview on G4 about the qualification process:
Can you talk more about the qualification process?
Yeah absolutely. Russ, from GosuCoaching, is the mastermind behind this whole thing and has this whole thing mapped out to a T. There is no teams, but every team is going to be maxed out at five players. There's not going to be like nine Evil Geniuses guys or eight Liquid guys. It will be five of the best from every team at most. Most likely it will be three or four of the players from each team. And then every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
Each team player will be put in a different division, so no one will hit a member of their team in their division so there will be no HuK vs. Ret in divisional play. And then it will take over the course of nine weeks in their division and the top two advance. And then with that top two there's another qualification process as well. Ten players per division will play, it takes nine weeks to play everyone in their division. There is also a playoff week where we decide the other 5 seats into the finals (10 seeds form divisional play, 5 from playoffs and one from open).
We're also going to have an open tournament so even the people that aren't qualifiers from this they're also going to be able to enter a 1,000 man open tournament and then the number one player from that is in the final sixteen. So it's kind of cool. Definitely team generated in the sense that if you're on a top professional team, if you're one of the top fifty non-Koreans in this tournament, but even if you're not, you can prove your worth through the open. And the second and third and fourth place people will also get rewards from the open. The second one gets flown to the offline final in LA and they're the first replacement. So if someone can't make it for Visa issues, they get sick, or they just don't show, which would be ludicrous, that person is the first one in line. And then third and fourth get auto birthed into season two.
I assure you, a 1000 man tourney for 1 spot.. even MVP would struggle. also, how does the teams work? does that mean the top 50 that will be chosen.. only 5 from a team will be chosen at max?
okay after reading that interview on the qualification it does sound like the good players arent just getting in off merit so at least they still have to grind it out. i was afraid for a moment that it was going to be a big elitist circle jerk where we see the same players every season cruise into the tournament off old merits alone.
imagine if we were forced to watch celtics lakers every single season? i think thats the sickest rivalry in sports and would watch it but i also think the excitement is sucked out if theres no storyline, context or journey to the finals. id rather watch sick rivalries happen on their own without any league assistance
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
On February 22 2011 10:01 Xeris wrote: Who said we're picking players entirely from this vote?
And how will you decide if e.g. a famous caster gets 100k votes from his community and ranked at first place?
The votes are obviously a way to get the community involved and to make the organisers look at someone to consider an invite.
They'll look at his team and professional history. They'll look at his ladder ranking. They'll look at his previous tournament appearances.
If all those are sufficient to call him one of the 50 best players who applied, invite him to play.
In the case of Destiny (who you are talking about, I suspect) he wouldn't make 2 of the 3. Probably not even the ladder since he's not even Top 100 in his region.
With the amount of actual talent this prize pool will attract, he is simply not a valid invite, popularity or not.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
On February 22 2011 10:33 DyEnasTy wrote: And to people complaining about not being able to get in unless your a well known player This is a quote from Incontrol in an interview on G4 about the qualification process:
Can you talk more about the qualification process?
Yeah absolutely. Russ, from GosuCoaching, is the mastermind behind this whole thing and has this whole thing mapped out to a T. There is no teams, but every team is going to be maxed out at five players. There's not going to be like nine Evil Geniuses guys or eight Liquid guys. It will be five of the best from every team at most. Most likely it will be three or four of the players from each team. And then every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
Each team player will be put in a different division, so no one will hit a member of their team in their division so there will be no HuK vs. Ret in divisional play. And then it will take over the course of nine weeks in their division and the top two advance. And then with that top two there's another qualification process as well. Ten players per division will play, it takes nine weeks to play everyone in their division. There is also a playoff week where we decide the other 5 seats into the finals (10 seeds form divisional play, 5 from playoffs and one from open).
We're also going to have an open tournament so even the people that aren't qualifiers from this they're also going to be able to enter a 1,000 man open tournament and then the number one player from that is in the final sixteen. So it's kind of cool. Definitely team generated in the sense that if you're on a top professional team, if you're one of the top fifty non-Koreans in this tournament, but even if you're not, you can prove your worth through the open. And the second and third and fourth place people will also get rewards from the open. The second one gets flown to the offline final in LA and they're the first replacement. So if someone can't make it for Visa issues, they get sick, or they just don't show, which would be ludicrous, that person is the first one in line. And then third and fourth get auto birthed into season two.
Please don't be so condescending, tons of people in this thread read this interview.
Do you have any idea what 1 spot in a 1000 man tournament means? Put OgsMc, IMMVP, and Nestea in that 1000 man tournament, and I'll still bet good money one of those 3 will not be the winner.
On February 22 2011 10:33 DyEnasTy wrote: And to people complaining about not being able to get in unless your a well known player This is a quote from Incontrol in an interview on G4 about the qualification process:
Can you talk more about the qualification process?
Yeah absolutely. Russ, from GosuCoaching, is the mastermind behind this whole thing and has this whole thing mapped out to a T. There is no teams, but every team is going to be maxed out at five players. There's not going to be like nine Evil Geniuses guys or eight Liquid guys. It will be five of the best from every team at most. Most likely it will be three or four of the players from each team. And then every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
Each team player will be put in a different division, so no one will hit a member of their team in their division so there will be no HuK vs. Ret in divisional play. And then it will take over the course of nine weeks in their division and the top two advance. And then with that top two there's another qualification process as well. Ten players per division will play, it takes nine weeks to play everyone in their division. There is also a playoff week where we decide the other 5 seats into the finals (10 seeds form divisional play, 5 from playoffs and one from open).
We're also going to have an open tournament so even the people that aren't qualifiers from this they're also going to be able to enter a 1,000 man open tournament and then the number one player from that is in the final sixteen. So it's kind of cool. Definitely team generated in the sense that if you're on a top professional team, if you're one of the top fifty non-Koreans in this tournament, but even if you're not, you can prove your worth through the open. And the second and third and fourth place people will also get rewards from the open. The second one gets flown to the offline final in LA and they're the first replacement. So if someone can't make it for Visa issues, they get sick, or they just don't show, which would be ludicrous, that person is the first one in line. And then third and fourth get auto birthed into season two.
I assure you, a 1000 man tourney for 1 spot.. even MVP would struggle. also, how does the teams work? does that mean the top 50 that will be chosen.. only 5 from a team will be chosen at max?
There is so many outlines on how to run a league like this. Whether its from like TSL, point based qualifying tournaments, to GSL with Code A and Code S. Instead there will be 1, one, uno, 1000 man tournament and the WINNER is allowed in. As just an example, I doubt Incontrol could win a 1000 man tournament even 1 out of 20 tries, but because he is known, he gets a spot automatically while other equally skilled players gotta get in through ridiculous conditions.
Avilo, I feel for ya man, when I vote I will give you all I can:D
On February 22 2011 10:33 DyEnasTy wrote: And to people complaining about not being able to get in unless your a well known player This is a quote from Incontrol in an interview on G4 about the qualification process:
Can you talk more about the qualification process?
Yeah absolutely. Russ, from GosuCoaching, is the mastermind behind this whole thing and has this whole thing mapped out to a T. There is no teams, but every team is going to be maxed out at five players. There's not going to be like nine Evil Geniuses guys or eight Liquid guys. It will be five of the best from every team at most. Most likely it will be three or four of the players from each team. And then every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
Each team player will be put in a different division, so no one will hit a member of their team in their division so there will be no HuK vs. Ret in divisional play. And then it will take over the course of nine weeks in their division and the top two advance. And then with that top two there's another qualification process as well. Ten players per division will play, it takes nine weeks to play everyone in their division. There is also a playoff week where we decide the other 5 seats into the finals (10 seeds form divisional play, 5 from playoffs and one from open).
We're also going to have an open tournament so even the people that aren't qualifiers from this they're also going to be able to enter a 1,000 man open tournament and then the number one player from that is in the final sixteen. So it's kind of cool. Definitely team generated in the sense that if you're on a top professional team, if you're one of the top fifty non-Koreans in this tournament, but even if you're not, you can prove your worth through the open. And the second and third and fourth place people will also get rewards from the open. The second one gets flown to the offline final in LA and they're the first replacement. So if someone can't make it for Visa issues, they get sick, or they just don't show, which would be ludicrous, that person is the first one in line. And then third and fourth get auto birthed into season two.
I assure you, a 1000 man tourney for 1 spot.. even MVP would struggle. also, how does the teams work? does that mean the top 50 that will be chosen.. only 5 from a team will be chosen at max?
The TLOpen is 1024 players. Most of the good players will already be in the NASL. MVP would stomp everone.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
On February 22 2011 10:33 DyEnasTy wrote: And to people complaining about not being able to get in unless your a well known player This is a quote from Incontrol in an interview on G4 about the qualification process:
Can you talk more about the qualification process?
Yeah absolutely. Russ, from GosuCoaching, is the mastermind behind this whole thing and has this whole thing mapped out to a T. There is no teams, but every team is going to be maxed out at five players. There's not going to be like nine Evil Geniuses guys or eight Liquid guys. It will be five of the best from every team at most. Most likely it will be three or four of the players from each team. And then every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
Each team player will be put in a different division, so no one will hit a member of their team in their division so there will be no HuK vs. Ret in divisional play. And then it will take over the course of nine weeks in their division and the top two advance. And then with that top two there's another qualification process as well. Ten players per division will play, it takes nine weeks to play everyone in their division. There is also a playoff week where we decide the other 5 seats into the finals (10 seeds form divisional play, 5 from playoffs and one from open).
We're also going to have an open tournament so even the people that aren't qualifiers from this they're also going to be able to enter a 1,000 man open tournament and then the number one player from that is in the final sixteen. So it's kind of cool. Definitely team generated in the sense that if you're on a top professional team, if you're one of the top fifty non-Koreans in this tournament, but even if you're not, you can prove your worth through the open. And the second and third and fourth place people will also get rewards from the open. The second one gets flown to the offline final in LA and they're the first replacement. So if someone can't make it for Visa issues, they get sick, or they just don't show, which would be ludicrous, that person is the first one in line. And then third and fourth get auto birthed into season two.
I assure you, a 1000 man tourney for 1 spot.. even MVP would struggle. also, how does the teams work? does that mean the top 50 that will be chosen.. only 5 from a team will be chosen at max?
The TLOpen is 1024 players. Most of the good players will already be in the NASL. MVP would stomp everone.
i guarantee you mvps chances of winning a 1000 man tourney the likes of this would probably be around 20%... maybe less.. maybe a little more. Being better isn't enough Bomber didn't even qualify for the GSL and that is arguably much easier to qualify for... how many spots are given to code A from qualies? 8? more? and the TLOPEN is an amazing system... many many tourneys and a pointbase for those who dont make first place.
On February 22 2011 10:33 DyEnasTy wrote: And to people complaining about not being able to get in unless your a well known player This is a quote from Incontrol in an interview on G4 about the qualification process:
Can you talk more about the qualification process?
Yeah absolutely. Russ, from GosuCoaching, is the mastermind behind this whole thing and has this whole thing mapped out to a T. There is no teams, but every team is going to be maxed out at five players. There's not going to be like nine Evil Geniuses guys or eight Liquid guys. It will be five of the best from every team at most. Most likely it will be three or four of the players from each team. And then every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
Each team player will be put in a different division, so no one will hit a member of their team in their division so there will be no HuK vs. Ret in divisional play. And then it will take over the course of nine weeks in their division and the top two advance. And then with that top two there's another qualification process as well. Ten players per division will play, it takes nine weeks to play everyone in their division. There is also a playoff week where we decide the other 5 seats into the finals (10 seeds form divisional play, 5 from playoffs and one from open).
We're also going to have an open tournament so even the people that aren't qualifiers from this they're also going to be able to enter a 1,000 man open tournament and then the number one player from that is in the final sixteen. So it's kind of cool. Definitely team generated in the sense that if you're on a top professional team, if you're one of the top fifty non-Koreans in this tournament, but even if you're not, you can prove your worth through the open. And the second and third and fourth place people will also get rewards from the open. The second one gets flown to the offline final in LA and they're the first replacement. So if someone can't make it for Visa issues, they get sick, or they just don't show, which would be ludicrous, that person is the first one in line. And then third and fourth get auto birthed into season two.
I assure you, a 1000 man tourney for 1 spot.. even MVP would struggle. also, how does the teams work? does that mean the top 50 that will be chosen.. only 5 from a team will be chosen at max?
The TLOpen is 1024 players. Most of the good players will already be in the NASL. MVP would stomp everone.
You don't realize that in a 1024 tournament, there will be like 8 players in the top 16 that are insanely good. The chance for one of them to win is very low cause everyone is so good. If someone is insanely good like MVP, they will be voted/allowed in anyways. You just gotta realize, not every sponsored player is better than every nonsponsored players. Just because you're sponsored/popular doesn't mean you should be allowed in.
God. So many fucking useless trolling. If all of you that are so upset about this or that can't take it--then go make your own gd league and find the sponsors to shell out 400k. Constructive criticism is great--things advance from that--but bickering for the sake of bickering is dumb. If you're going to criticize add a comma and make a suggestion. >:-S
On February 22 2011 10:51 DueSs wrote: God. So many fucking useless trolling. If all of you that are so upset about this or that can't take it--then go make your own gd league and find the sponsors to shell out 400k. Constructive criticism is great--things advance from that--but bickering for the sake of bickering is dumb. If you're going to criticize add a comma and make a suggestion. >:-S
you call other people trolls and come out with the worst logic in the thread, good job.
On February 22 2011 10:47 GhostFall wrote: Please don't be so condescending, tons of people in this thread read this interview.
Do you have any idea what 1 spot in a 1000 man tournament means? Put OgsMc, IMMVP, and Nestea in that 1000 man tournament, and I'll still bet good money one of those 3 will not be the winner.
Well then, "good news, everyone!" People like Mc and MVP have already put in the work to be considered for an invite. They're just trying to make sure that (out of all the players who would be interested in competing) they get the cream of the crop.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
No need to stroke your own. You get a whole 10 week tournament with a $400k prizepool to rub all you want while the masses claw over 1 measly spot.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
On February 22 2011 10:51 DueSs wrote: God. So many fucking useless trolling. If all of you that are so upset about this or that can't take it--then go make your own gd league and find the sponsors to shell out 400k. Constructive criticism is great--things advance from that--but bickering for the sake of bickering is dumb. If you're going to criticize add a comma and make a suggestion. >:-S
you call other people trolls and come out with the worst logic in the thread, good job.
And obviously you don't get the logic. You criticized me without adding a comma and adding a suggestion. Sigh.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
Avilo what have you actually won
z33k.com's master tournament or something?
Well it's not like Lz won anything. Some well known players haven't won anything at all.
Destiny(steven bonnell) is in the top 10 of the voting currently.... and I only watch 3 games of him vs EGiNcontrol and i felt like he is not on the level of playing against these caliber of players... there are WAYYYY more players that better or at least be able to compete against high caliber players without getting stomped and that is not Destiny(steven bonnell). I think whoever voted for him is just not thinking in term of how high level these players can be..
On February 22 2011 10:33 DyEnasTy wrote: And to people complaining about not being able to get in unless your a well known player This is a quote from Incontrol in an interview on G4 about the qualification process:
Can you talk more about the qualification process?
Yeah absolutely. Russ, from GosuCoaching, is the mastermind behind this whole thing and has this whole thing mapped out to a T. There is no teams, but every team is going to be maxed out at five players. There's not going to be like nine Evil Geniuses guys or eight Liquid guys. It will be five of the best from every team at most. Most likely it will be three or four of the players from each team. And then every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
Each team player will be put in a different division, so no one will hit a member of their team in their division so there will be no HuK vs. Ret in divisional play. And then it will take over the course of nine weeks in their division and the top two advance. And then with that top two there's another qualification process as well. Ten players per division will play, it takes nine weeks to play everyone in their division. There is also a playoff week where we decide the other 5 seats into the finals (10 seeds form divisional play, 5 from playoffs and one from open).
We're also going to have an open tournament so even the people that aren't qualifiers from this they're also going to be able to enter a 1,000 man open tournament and then the number one player from that is in the final sixteen. So it's kind of cool. Definitely team generated in the sense that if you're on a top professional team, if you're one of the top fifty non-Koreans in this tournament, but even if you're not, you can prove your worth through the open. And the second and third and fourth place people will also get rewards from the open. The second one gets flown to the offline final in LA and they're the first replacement. So if someone can't make it for Visa issues, they get sick, or they just don't show, which would be ludicrous, that person is the first one in line. And then third and fourth get auto birthed into season two.
I assure you, a 1000 man tourney for 1 spot.. even MVP would struggle. also, how does the teams work? does that mean the top 50 that will be chosen.. only 5 from a team will be chosen at max?
The TLOpen is 1024 players. Most of the good players will already be in the NASL. MVP would stomp everone.
i guarantee you mvps chances of winning a 1000 man tourney the likes of this would probably be around 20%... maybe less.. maybe a little more. Being better isn't enough Bomber didn't even qualify for the GSL and that is arguably much easier to qualify for... how many spots are given to code A from qualies? 8? more? and the TLOPEN is an amazing system... many many tourneys and a pointbase for those who dont make first place.
MVP won Gainward, which had 700+ players, while losing only one game the whole tournament
On February 22 2011 10:51 DueSs wrote: God. So many fucking useless trolling. If all of you that are so upset about this or that can't take it--then go make your own gd league and find the sponsors to shell out 400k. Constructive criticism is great--things advance from that--but bickering for the sake of bickering is dumb. If you're going to criticize add a comma and make a suggestion. >:-S
you call other people trolls and come out with the worst logic in the thread, good job.
And obviously you don't get the logic. You criticized me without adding a comma and adding a suggestion. Sigh.
i refused to read the rest of your post after your first half was so blatantly ignorant.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
I was just using an example of an "underdog" situation man...<3.
There's tons more situations like that where people are like "EL O EL THAT GUY IS DEFINITELY GONNA GET CRUSHED!" and the person watching hasn't even seen either of the players playing to base anything off of, they just see the names and think, "oh, that's megaBossman, he will win cause he's in so and so team, with so and so etc."
Even GSL's system has it where players WORK their way up into the leagues, they aren't voted in.
On February 22 2011 10:51 DueSs wrote: God. So many fucking useless trolling. If all of you that are so upset about this or that can't take it--then go make your own gd league and find the sponsors to shell out 400k. Constructive criticism is great--things advance from that--but bickering for the sake of bickering is dumb. If you're going to criticize add a comma and make a suggestion. >:-S
you call other people trolls and come out with the worst logic in the thread, good job.
And obviously you don't get the logic. You criticized me without adding a comma and adding a suggestion. Sigh.
i refused to read the rest of your post after your first half was so blatantly ignorant.
i dont think they will let "lesser" players in just because they get voted. i do hope that we have a good mix of players from europe and america. go hasu,socke and ret
On February 22 2011 10:33 DyEnasTy wrote: And to people complaining about not being able to get in unless your a well known player This is a quote from Incontrol in an interview on G4 about the qualification process:
Can you talk more about the qualification process?
Yeah absolutely. Russ, from GosuCoaching, is the mastermind behind this whole thing and has this whole thing mapped out to a T. There is no teams, but every team is going to be maxed out at five players. There's not going to be like nine Evil Geniuses guys or eight Liquid guys. It will be five of the best from every team at most. Most likely it will be three or four of the players from each team. And then every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
Each team player will be put in a different division, so no one will hit a member of their team in their division so there will be no HuK vs. Ret in divisional play. And then it will take over the course of nine weeks in their division and the top two advance. And then with that top two there's another qualification process as well. Ten players per division will play, it takes nine weeks to play everyone in their division. There is also a playoff week where we decide the other 5 seats into the finals (10 seeds form divisional play, 5 from playoffs and one from open).
We're also going to have an open tournament so even the people that aren't qualifiers from this they're also going to be able to enter a 1,000 man open tournament and then the number one player from that is in the final sixteen. So it's kind of cool. Definitely team generated in the sense that if you're on a top professional team, if you're one of the top fifty non-Koreans in this tournament, but even if you're not, you can prove your worth through the open. And the second and third and fourth place people will also get rewards from the open. The second one gets flown to the offline final in LA and they're the first replacement. So if someone can't make it for Visa issues, they get sick, or they just don't show, which would be ludicrous, that person is the first one in line. And then third and fourth get auto birthed into season two.
I assure you, a 1000 man tourney for 1 spot.. even MVP would struggle. also, how does the teams work? does that mean the top 50 that will be chosen.. only 5 from a team will be chosen at max?
The TLOpen is 1024 players. Most of the good players will already be in the NASL. MVP would stomp everone.
i guarantee you mvps chances of winning a 1000 man tourney the likes of this would probably be around 20%... maybe less.. maybe a little more. Being better isn't enough Bomber didn't even qualify for the GSL and that is arguably much easier to qualify for... how many spots are given to code A from qualies? 8? more? and the TLOPEN is an amazing system... many many tourneys and a pointbase for those who dont make first place.
MVP won Gainward, which had 700+ players, while losing only one game the whole tournament
atm the map pool favors terran, You can't really find a map that makes our race hard to play. This does help. However. A 1000 man tourney offers a great deal of randomness... 700+ is still quite impressive but in the state the game is right now because of the maps... a lot of aggressive strats have a much higher win ratio then they should. Which makes these tourneys really hard. Terran is favored in this sense that it has the ability to play the maps alot more safely then other races but we still can lose to alot of these strats and it is MUCH worse for other races. No matter how good you are.. winning 700,1000 man tourneys is very very hard.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
I was just using an example of an "underdog" situation man...<3.
There's tons more situations like that where people are like "EL O EL THAT GUY IS DEFINITELY GONNA GET CRUSHED!" and the person watching hasn't even seen either of the players playing to base anything off of, they just see the names and think, "oh, that's megaBossman, he will win cause he's in so and so team, with so and so etc."
Even GSL's system has it where players WORK their way up into the leagues, they aren't voted in.
On February 22 2011 10:51 DueSs wrote: God. So many fucking useless trolling. If all of you that are so upset about this or that can't take it--then go make your own gd league and find the sponsors to shell out 400k. Constructive criticism is great--things advance from that--but bickering for the sake of bickering is dumb. If you're going to criticize add a comma and make a suggestion. >:-S
you call other people trolls and come out with the worst logic in the thread, good job.
And obviously you don't get the logic. You criticized me without adding a comma and adding a suggestion. Sigh.
i refused to read the rest of your post after your first half was so blatantly ignorant.
Typical. Keep trollin', eh. =/
almost 10x your posts without a warning, and im the troll, thats rich.
The voting is only partially responsible for who gets an invite. Ultimately it's someone in NASL that makes the decisions so there's a least a chance of objectivity going into the decision process.
We shall see, they haven't fucked up anything, yet.
On February 22 2011 10:33 DyEnasTy wrote: And to people complaining about not being able to get in unless your a well known player This is a quote from Incontrol in an interview on G4 about the qualification process:
Can you talk more about the qualification process?
Yeah absolutely. Russ, from GosuCoaching, is the mastermind behind this whole thing and has this whole thing mapped out to a T. There is no teams, but every team is going to be maxed out at five players. There's not going to be like nine Evil Geniuses guys or eight Liquid guys. It will be five of the best from every team at most. Most likely it will be three or four of the players from each team. And then every player is supposed to be backed by a $250 refundable fee. Essentially what it is, is every time they're rude or they're late or any kind of unforeseeable problems occur they'll be penalized $25 or $50 and that comes out of the refundable fee of course. But most people, hopefully all, will be completely and immaculately fine and will get that $250 back. But the idea is to make them accountable.
Each team player will be put in a different division, so no one will hit a member of their team in their division so there will be no HuK vs. Ret in divisional play. And then it will take over the course of nine weeks in their division and the top two advance. And then with that top two there's another qualification process as well. Ten players per division will play, it takes nine weeks to play everyone in their division. There is also a playoff week where we decide the other 5 seats into the finals (10 seeds form divisional play, 5 from playoffs and one from open).
We're also going to have an open tournament so even the people that aren't qualifiers from this they're also going to be able to enter a 1,000 man open tournament and then the number one player from that is in the final sixteen. So it's kind of cool. Definitely team generated in the sense that if you're on a top professional team, if you're one of the top fifty non-Koreans in this tournament, but even if you're not, you can prove your worth through the open. And the second and third and fourth place people will also get rewards from the open. The second one gets flown to the offline final in LA and they're the first replacement. So if someone can't make it for Visa issues, they get sick, or they just don't show, which would be ludicrous, that person is the first one in line. And then third and fourth get auto birthed into season two.
I assure you, a 1000 man tourney for 1 spot.. even MVP would struggle. also, how does the teams work? does that mean the top 50 that will be chosen.. only 5 from a team will be chosen at max?
The TLOpen is 1024 players. Most of the good players will already be in the NASL. MVP would stomp everone.
i guarantee you mvps chances of winning a 1000 man tourney the likes of this would probably be around 20%... maybe less.. maybe a little more. Being better isn't enough Bomber didn't even qualify for the GSL and that is arguably much easier to qualify for... how many spots are given to code A from qualies? 8? more? and the TLOPEN is an amazing system... many many tourneys and a pointbase for those who dont make first place.
MVP won Gainward, which had 700+ players, while losing only one game the whole tournament
Yes but you're assuming MVP doesn't get invited. Players that could easily win a 1000 man tournament like Idra/Jinro etc are going to get invited. Honestly other than those 2 I can't actually think of anyone else who could hands down win a 1000 man tournament with no problem. I watch a lot of the little tournaments where TONS of pros sign up for like 20$ prize pool, but there is never 1 person who wins them all.
The interview basically said it is a popularity contest by saying players from teams will be invited, and then some lucky guy who wins a 1000 man tournament will be invited. Once again, just because you are sponsored doesn't mean you are automatically better than someone who isn't.
So who's fucking with the votes? Destiny gained just insta gained 2000 votes, and all the ONE clan guys shot up from nowhere, and they are by no means the popular players.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
I was just using an example of an "underdog" situation man...<3.
There's tons more situations like that where people are like "EL O EL THAT GUY IS DEFINITELY GONNA GET CRUSHED!" and the person watching hasn't even seen either of the players playing to base anything off of, they just see the names and think, "oh, that's megaBossman, he will win cause he's in so and so team, with so and so etc."
Even GSL's system has it where players WORK their way up into the leagues, they aren't voted in.
Ok by your logic: you beating LZ in a TvT once qualifies you for $100,000? I think your resume should be a bit bigger than that.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
No need to stroke your own. You get a whole 10 week tournament with a $400k prizepool to rub all you want while the masses claw over 1 measly spot.
He's not stroking his own... he's calling out someone who said, "I beat LZ!!! Look at me!!!"
I like that LZ actually gets on these threads and calls out the talkers.
I think he will be the first terran player I've ever rooted for haha
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
I was just using an example of an "underdog" situation man...<3.
There's tons more situations like that where people are like "EL O EL THAT GUY IS DEFINITELY GONNA GET CRUSHED!" and the person watching hasn't even seen either of the players playing to base anything off of, they just see the names and think, "oh, that's megaBossman, he will win cause he's in so and so team, with so and so etc."
Even GSL's system has it where players WORK their way up into the leagues, they aren't voted in.
Ok by your logic: you beating LZ in a TvT once qualifies you for $100,000? I think your resume should be a bit bigger than that.
your missing his point, he's simply saying underdog players aren't always going to get crushed by sponsored well known players.
On February 22 2011 10:51 DueSs wrote: God. So many fucking useless trolling. If all of you that are so upset about this or that can't take it--then go make your own gd league and find the sponsors to shell out 400k. Constructive criticism is great--things advance from that--but bickering for the sake of bickering is dumb. If you're going to criticize add a comma and make a suggestion. >:-S
you call other people trolls and come out with the worst logic in the thread, good job.
And obviously you don't get the logic. You criticized me without adding a comma and adding a suggestion. Sigh.
i refused to read the rest of your post after your first half was so blatantly ignorant.
Typical. Keep trollin', eh. =/
almost 10x your posts without a warning, and im the troll, thats rich.
You could have 100x my posts and still be a troll. Don't understand why you took such offense to my post anyway. TL reader/non-poster since 2004 (my sophomore year in college)--I know how things go here.
On February 22 2011 11:11 ZlaSHeR wrote: So who's fucking with the votes? Destiny gained just insta gained 2000 votes, and all the ONE clan guys shot up from nowhere, and they are by no means the popular players.
Well seeing how you can just keep voting with different emails...
On February 22 2011 11:11 ZlaSHeR wrote: So who's fucking with the votes? Destiny gained just insta gained 2000 votes, and all the ONE clan guys shot up from nowhere, and they are by no means the popular players.
Yea, Destiny was 300 votes behind HuK for a hour or so now, and suddenly BAM! 2000 votes.
I know iNcontrol said the pool dosent matter, and i believe him, but i do hope it irons out some more, so i dont wake up tomorrow to 2 million votes for Destiny
I am sure he is a great guy, but this is outright silly
On February 22 2011 10:51 DueSs wrote: God. So many fucking useless trolling. If all of you that are so upset about this or that can't take it--then go make your own gd league and find the sponsors to shell out 400k. Constructive criticism is great--things advance from that--but bickering for the sake of bickering is dumb. If you're going to criticize add a comma and make a suggestion. >:-S
you call other people trolls and come out with the worst logic in the thread, good job.
And obviously you don't get the logic. You criticized me without adding a comma and adding a suggestion. Sigh.
i refused to read the rest of your post after your first half was so blatantly ignorant.
Typical. Keep trollin', eh. =/
almost 10x your posts without a warning, and im the troll, thats rich.
You could have 100x my posts and still be a troll. Don't understand why you took such offense to my post anyway. TL reader/non-poster since 2004 (my sophomore year in college)--I know how things go here.
because you're an obvious troll hiding behind logical fallacies, defending yourself by calling other people trolls?
In a perfect world, your skill would be a measure of how popular you are. Unfortunately, how you market yourself is just as important, if not more important than your skill. It makes sense that people who want to grow a sport would want to have players who have dedicated themselves to making a name for themselves. After all, the more popular the players, the more viewers and the more exposure it'll get.
They haven't stated how much influence the voting has on the roster, but I'll have to wait and see more details before I agree or disagree with their approach for selection.
The best players will be picked to participate. Idiots think that the people putting shit ton of money into this will let the league crumble by allowing poor players to play. It will be as objective as possible (for picking 50 players, you have to be subjective at some point). 50 players are invited. I can't even name 30 household names from North America. Having said that, your favorite players WILL be picked, don't worry. As far as the non-household names, who better to pick them than people who actually play against them and people at the top of the competitive pool?
On February 22 2011 10:51 DueSs wrote: God. So many fucking useless trolling. If all of you that are so upset about this or that can't take it--then go make your own gd league and find the sponsors to shell out 400k. Constructive criticism is great--things advance from that--but bickering for the sake of bickering is dumb. If you're going to criticize add a comma and make a suggestion. >:-S
you call other people trolls and come out with the worst logic in the thread, good job.
And obviously you don't get the logic. You criticized me without adding a comma and adding a suggestion. Sigh.
i refused to read the rest of your post after your first half was so blatantly ignorant.
Typical. Keep trollin', eh. =/
almost 10x your posts without a warning, and im the troll, thats rich.
You could have 100x my posts and still be a troll. Don't understand why you took such offense to my post anyway. TL reader/non-poster since 2004 (my sophomore year in college)--I know how things go here.
because you're an obvious troll hiding behind logical fallacies, defending yourself by calling other people trolls?
lol, im done with you. you've DEFINED classic trollin' in our exchange alone.
Destiny's at number one, good thing that they aren't using the votes to determine the players Although it would be hilarious to see how quickly he would lose the $250
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
I was just using an example of an "underdog" situation man...<3.
There's tons more situations like that where people are like "EL O EL THAT GUY IS DEFINITELY GONNA GET CRUSHED!" and the person watching hasn't even seen either of the players playing to base anything off of, they just see the names and think, "oh, that's megaBossman, he will win cause he's in so and so team, with so and so etc."
Even GSL's system has it where players WORK their way up into the leagues, they aren't voted in.
Ok by your logic: you beating LZ in a TvT once qualifies you for $100,000? I think your resume should be a bit bigger than that.
your missing his point, he's simply saying underdog players aren't always going to get crushed by sponsored well known players.
I went back and re read with what you said in mind, and ya hes right in that respect. But there is an open (although very hard) qualifier to get into the tourny with. Wether that format is fair or unfair will be revealed as time goes on.
I can't believe Destiny is number one... it is a popularity contest and you have people from his stream probably making multiple accounts to vote 3 times
Although we'll be able to see him get stomped... he's taking the spot from a good player
also there's a lot of Korean people on there, specifically MC MVP and NesTea... I didn't know if they were going in, especially since they probably won't give up GSL
I don't like the system because as Avilo said that it is rewarding the well-known successful players, but like MLG has a championship bracket to make it easier for them, NASL is just going to carry them into the tournament, and allow 1 out of 16 for an unknown player, or a known player that didn't get enough votes
On February 22 2011 11:14 goldrush wrote: In a perfect world, your skill would be a measure of how popular you are. Unfortunately, how you market yourself is just as important, if not more important than your skill. It makes sense that people who want to grow a sport would want to have players who have dedicated themselves to making a name for themselves. After all, the more popular the players, the more viewers and the more exposure it'll get.
Then say it like that. I don't want to read About NASL and have it say "We need the best players" then have a button on the bottom saying, Vote for your favorite players!
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
I was just using an example of an "underdog" situation man...<3.
There's tons more situations like that where people are like "EL O EL THAT GUY IS DEFINITELY GONNA GET CRUSHED!" and the person watching hasn't even seen either of the players playing to base anything off of, they just see the names and think, "oh, that's megaBossman, he will win cause he's in so and so team, with so and so etc."
Even GSL's system has it where players WORK their way up into the leagues, they aren't voted in.
Ok by your logic: you beating LZ in a TvT once qualifies you for $100,000? I think your resume should be a bit bigger than that.
your missing his point, he's simply saying underdog players aren't always going to get crushed by sponsored well known players.
I went back and re read with what you said in mind, and ya hes right in that respect. But there is an open (although very hard) qualifier to get into the tourny with. Wether that format is fair or unfair will be revealed as time goes on.
I voted destiny, not because I think he'd do well but because I think it'd be hilarious to see him play a tournament like this - especially if he'd be allowed to talk in game or if there were post game interviews
In all seriousness though, in the end I think this list will mostly be used to decide the final few spots. After the obvious players have been chosen, who does the NASL want in their tournament? An unknown player that has taken home a few small tournaments, or a player like brat_ok who will bring in a LOT of viewers?
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
I was just using an example of an "underdog" situation man...<3.
There's tons more situations like that where people are like "EL O EL THAT GUY IS DEFINITELY GONNA GET CRUSHED!" and the person watching hasn't even seen either of the players playing to base anything off of, they just see the names and think, "oh, that's megaBossman, he will win cause he's in so and so team, with so and so etc."
Even GSL's system has it where players WORK their way up into the leagues, they aren't voted in.
Ok by your logic: you beating LZ in a TvT once qualifies you for $100,000? I think your resume should be a bit bigger than that.
your missing his point, he's simply saying underdog players aren't always going to get crushed by sponsored well known players.
we have a winrar! indeed, that was the point I was trying to make that flew over many trolls's heads.
You cannot always just assume one player is gonna win over another.
Voting for the players rather than having them play in qualifiers sends a pretty clear message that they want the most popular players, rather than the best.
Jibba, then move it to the front page where i think it should be? why do i sense an arbitrary thread deletion incoming? we're discussing an upcoming tournament in a the tournament forum, and if you look at some of the other threads about tournaments there are many details about how to qualify in them ^^, which is the matter at hand in this thread.
don't just quash discussion because the "big announcement" isn't being as well received as you hoped, perhaps the bigwigs in the community should have put more thought into what the community actually wanted.
On February 22 2011 11:21 Brad wrote: Whoever is voting for ONE is making it pretty obvious they're exploiting it, they could of at-least waited a few days.
Yeah I was noticing that too.
Was wondering who the hell those guys were, because I had never heard of any of them... yeah, obviously the voting system needs a little fixing to prevent the abuse.
The reason we love to watch idra, huk, jinro etc. is because they are awesome at the game. Their high level of skill is incredible and makes for great games. If someone is at or above their level but I happen to not know who they are, why would I not be entertained by their games? If the pro players are truly the top players then they would be able to make it to the top of an open tournament. I don't see why the whole thing isn't just an open tourny with qualifiers. Sure there may be more cheesier players, but if that is how you win at starcraft, then that is a valid strategy. If it gets to a point where there is much more cheese in tournaments, Blizzard will respond by balancing the game. They want the game to be entertaining for everyone.
The voting is just for a bit of fun I thought, Incontrol even confirmed that. Thank god, I woudn't want to be in a popularity contest with the stars like Jinro and Idra. Hopefully they will bring in qualifiers so that I can have a chance. I'd love to participate in this tournament.
On February 22 2011 11:21 Jibba wrote: This isn't at all how Tournament threads work.
Sorry :3!
And I think Avilo made the point we were all thinking, but added himself as a perfect example.
He was not claiming that he would win the grand finals of the NASL. All he was saying was that he is [basically] a no-name compared to anyone in EG, yet he has beaten some of them in tournaments. So how is it fair for a tournament to be based on your popularity? It isn't.
Basically, the format simply discourages up-starts. It may or may not hinder the growth of the sport, by making it more difficult for newer players to get into the scene.
GSL is very open and it's still extremely hard to get into Code S. Just look at some obviously great players like Bomber who haven't even played in code A.
No. Just... No. NO ONE EVER SAID THEY WOULD ONLY PICK THE PEOPLE WITH THE MOST VOTES.
Just says it increases their chances... which is smart. This is a business venture... and in order to even HOPE to turn a profit, they must get viewers. More popular players == more viewers. I don't think this thread is merited at all.
On February 22 2011 11:19 jalstar wrote: Destiny says he won't play due to not being in a team, so I doubt he encouraged viewers to spam votes.
His votes don't matter, he's not gonna participate, discuss the players who will actually play.
To be fair to Destiny (and I often find him hugely annoying, so this is hard for me) he's on his stream right now saying "I don't know who is linking and telling people to vote for me, but stop it. Vote for me if you want, but don't spam links, cut it out".
On February 22 2011 11:28 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Mod should put Incontrol's quote at the top of the thread to clear up the level of misconception in here.
And idiocy, after looking after some other comments.
Did it myself.
I by no means am trying to make NASL look bad, but my honest (and I think fairly logical) interpretation of how players get into NASL was that it's a popularity contest. I mean, the quotes from NASL.tv say it almost verbatim.
Now I'm just confused.
Is it basically invite-only with popularity playing a role in the invites? If so, how else are invites determined? How can this avoid becoming purely subjective?
If 16 spots came from a big open tourney, and 32 came from invites, I don't think anyone would be... nervous, shall I say.
the number one priority of this new league is to succeed.. it makes sense to get the most popular players in it. that said, some sort of mix or qualifiers is good too. who knows what they will do after the few seasons when this league is a major success. its not something to worry about people.
A huge league ran by pro gamers just won't turn out as good as a MLG/GSL/SC:BW without a outside person running it. This is like the same as EG Masters Cup, of course EG is going to be in it.
Having a tournament ran by pro gamers, will always result in a popularity contest. Do you really think Incontrol is going to go up to LzGamer and be like, "Sorry man, Avilo took your spot". It just won't happen.
On February 22 2011 11:33 Crushgroove wrote: No. Just... No. NO ONE EVER SAID THEY WOULD ONLY PICK THE PEOPLE WITH THE MOST VOTES.
Just says it increases their chances... which is smart. This is a business venture... and in order to even HOPE to turn a profit, they must get viewers. More popular players == more viewers. I don't think this thread is merited at all.
I agree, It's good business. The problem is today's society of getting Lady Gaga's video to 100m views before Britney does. I wouldn't be surprised if i woke up to see a player with 50,000 votes tomorrow.
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
Avilo what have you actually won
z33k.com's master tournament or something?
What has Destiny won? Shit, mondragon got posted there by nasl.tv, and I doubt hes even played starcraft 2 since beta. I would wager $100 that I could beat him....
On February 22 2011 10:17 avilo wrote: As a player like everyone else that has been practicing his ass off for ages, I really want to get into this league like the other hardcore people trying to be progamers...and that is one thing that MLG does in fact do very well - equal opportunity for every player to play in it and win cash.
Funny fact, I beat EGLZgamer at MLG DC. Now, to people that don't watch much, if you'd be guessing who would win something like that, would you guess me or the person with EG in their name?
If I had needed to be voted in to MLG to be able to participate, something like that would never be able to happen, as I'd automatically be written off since I could be a player that is not popular or well known at the time.
This does not go for just me obviously, but imagine players even less known than myself...that could be better...
To do this NASL, which I want to get into, I suddenly feel like I need to take more time out of practice now to get on twitter, facebook, stream 20x more, and basically everything and anything that can get me more exposure =/!
Replay pack in the works now
Funny fact, my tvt is nothing to brag about beating... shall I list the people who I have beat at MLG's? ...
Avilo what have you actually won
z33k.com's master tournament or something?
What has Destiny won? Shit, mondragon got posted there by nasl.tv, and I doubt hes even played starcraft 2 since beta. I would wager $100 that I could beat him....
Hasn't Mondragon been playing on ladder somewhat? I think you're exaggerating a bit too much
System for voting is obviously messed up. Shame. Hope some of the 50 spots go to qualifiers. Would be nice to see like 5 of them be given to people who qualify.
There is obvious cheating on this system. Piqliq is getting around 100 votes a second. I don't understand how they didn't forsee blatant cheating with this system.
iNcontroL needs to stop being so defensive. This is a huge thing. It's an awesome thing, sure, but people are going to voice their concerns about it. If it so happens that these concerns are entirely wrong, as in this case, then just say so. No need to accuse the community of wanting you to fail.
i srsly cant stand how people starting to troll this voting system... LIKE COME ON PEOPLE this FKING* tournament is 400k+ and u guys starting to TROLL this voting system....
NASL are generously enough to LET the community speak and I dont think the community is doing what NASL wants. PIQLIQ(cheeser in the community?) and Destiny(streamer) for example I guess have a lot of fame but the thing is they did not accomplish other and did not show enough high level. I felt like NASL should just pick half the people they want in the tournament and half for qualifier like TSL
funny thing ,because PIqLiq is actually a really fun player to watch, he plays his own style and would be great for this tournament i dont think he plays tournaments though
It's a pointless exercise then. Was never going to work. I personally didn't mind voting but it's not going to have any integrity on the internet/open voting.
iNcontroL and company put forth a huge effort to set up this unprecedented competition and a thread immediately appears to criticize a simple vote feature. It's as if 5 men have built you a mansion with their bare hands and you walk in and complain about the color of the goddamn wallpaper.
Piqliq's votes are actually counting down, pretty hilarious.
On February 22 2011 11:51 Cheeznuklz wrote: This thread is absurd.
iNcontroL and company put forth a huge effort to set up this unprecedented competition and a thread immediately appears to criticize a simple vote feature. It's as if 5 men have built you a mansion with their bare hands and you walk in and complain about the color of the goddamn wallpaper.
Not really. It's not complaining, it's questioning/criticizing. And it's more like the structural integrity of the house, like whether or not it's going to fall on us or not. Or maybe if there are any doors or any way to get in, if you aren't already in.
On February 22 2011 11:51 Cheeznuklz wrote: This thread is absurd.
iNcontroL and company put forth a huge effort to set up this unprecedented competition and a thread immediately appears to criticize a simple vote feature. It's as if 5 men have built you a mansion with their bare hands and you walk in and complain about the color of the goddamn wallpaper.
Wallpaper would be an inapt comparison. A better thing to complain about would be the shoddy foundation work as because the players make the tournament what it is.
i actually think that the "popularity contest" is a good component to be added in selecting players (im not saying it should be the only factor but it should be considered). the goal of NASL (and maybe even most of the forum readers/posters here in TL) is to make eSports big in the West. the players who are most popular are those that create content which displays their skills and puts their name out there in the interweb, their efforts in creating content and spreading the game should be rewarded with further exposure through the NASL. its pretty simple; popular players have a huge fan base. if they play in the NASL they will bring their fans along with them and this will hopefully further proliferate SC2 and eSports ^_^
On February 22 2011 11:47 itungle wrote: i srsly cant stand how people starting to troll this voting system... LIKE COME ON PEOPLE this FKING* tournament is 400k+ and u guys starting to TROLL this voting system....
NASL are generously enough to LET the community speak and I dont think the community is doing what NASL wants. PIQLIQ(cheeser in the community?) and Destiny(streamer) for example I guess have a lot of fame but the thing is they did not accomplish other and did not show enough high level. I felt like NASL should just pick half the people they want in the tournament and half for qualifier like TSL
Well, Destiny's votes were gained from legitimate votes, not a bot/hack like PiqLiq's so I would not categorize that as trolling.
This voting thing is reminding me of that "stupid $5 game" that was on these forums about a month ago.
But anyway, I'm glad to hear that the voting isn't what ultimately chooses the players, but I would still like to see a LOT more weight given to the open qualifiers. Some invites are fine, having only a single person making it in from the open is, imho, not nearly enough.
On February 22 2011 11:51 Cheeznuklz wrote: This thread is absurd.
iNcontroL and company put forth a huge effort to set up this unprecedented competition and a thread immediately appears to criticize a simple vote feature. It's as if 5 men have built you a mansion with their bare hands and you walk in and complain about the color of the goddamn wallpaper.
No one in the thread is saying they are boycotting NASL. I'm pretty sure most of us will get the premium pass. I know i will. Success is built upon criticism.
On February 22 2011 11:51 Cheeznuklz wrote: This thread is absurd.
iNcontroL and company put forth a huge effort to set up this unprecedented competition and a thread immediately appears to criticize a simple vote feature. It's as if 5 men have built you a mansion with their bare hands and you walk in and complain about the color of the goddamn wallpaper.
At first I think this thread is also absurd but the way people starting to vote feel like it is actually not. I know EGiNcontroL, Russ, and others put a lot of time in this but people is really abusing the voting system.
On February 22 2011 11:47 itungle wrote: i srsly cant stand how people starting to troll this voting system... LIKE COME ON PEOPLE this FKING* tournament is 400k+ and u guys starting to TROLL this voting system....
NASL are generously enough to LET the community speak and I dont think the community is doing what NASL wants. PIQLIQ(cheeser in the community?) and Destiny(streamer) for example I guess have a lot of fame but the thing is they did not accomplish other and did not show enough high level. I felt like NASL should just pick half the people they want in the tournament and half for qualifier like TSL
Well, Destiny's votes were gained from legitimate votes, not a bot/hack like PiqLiq's so I would not categorize that as trolling.
Actually your wrong. Destiny's votes have dropped alot.
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
Uhm, no? Popularity has nothing to do with success.
Well lucky us in StarCraft it does.
Look at that poll to your right, Boxer is the most popular, but you could hardly say that he's better than ANYONE on that list right now.
Edit: Crap, I wasted my 1500 post on this! But I think i made a good point.
On February 22 2011 11:54 squintz wrote: I'm pretty sure there are some legit PiQLiQ votes in there. The guy is fun to watch, especially when he snipes streamers and calls them bad ^_^
Okay. So I should have figured this out before today, but this is getting utterly retarded everyone. So fucking retarded.
NASL obviously wants to hit the ground running, and that means having 50 players ready to go as of April 5th. So, how should they do that? They're already going to be sinking ungodly amounts of money and man power into the 3 hours of daily content, 5 days a week, for 14 weeks. How can they get a pool of credible contenders without it getting completely out of control with 5000000000 months of open qualifiers and still keep their tournament populated with players that are credible?
Oh. I have an idea. Put up a lot of names of reasonably qualified players and have people vote on them. Then, woah, have Incontrol and other people who are intimately connected with the scene vote on who to put in after taking into account the vote.
Wait, is that what they're doing now? Oh. The way everyone was talking it sounded like Incontrol was just going to let Totalbiscuit fucking play, because he happened to get most of the votes by April 1st.
This is a brand new tournament, and they needed a solid base of players to play. They don't have the funding of the GSL, I'm sure, and couldn't afford to field a humongous qualifying round that takes 3 months.
On February 22 2011 11:47 itungle wrote: i srsly cant stand how people starting to troll this voting system... LIKE COME ON PEOPLE this FKING* tournament is 400k+ and u guys starting to TROLL this voting system....
NASL are generously enough to LET the community speak and I dont think the community is doing what NASL wants. PIQLIQ(cheeser in the community?) and Destiny(streamer) for example I guess have a lot of fame but the thing is they did not accomplish other and did not show enough high level. I felt like NASL should just pick half the people they want in the tournament and half for qualifier like TSL
Polls en voting systems are getting trolled since the birth of the internet. You think they dont know that. Just relax, they will be inviting the players everyone wants to see. Rember they siad they want community feedback. One poll isnt all of the community.
On February 22 2011 11:47 itungle wrote: i srsly cant stand how people starting to troll this voting system... LIKE COME ON PEOPLE this FKING* tournament is 400k+ and u guys starting to TROLL this voting system....
NASL are generously enough to LET the community speak and I dont think the community is doing what NASL wants. PIQLIQ(cheeser in the community?) and Destiny(streamer) for example I guess have a lot of fame but the thing is they did not accomplish other and did not show enough high level. I felt like NASL should just pick half the people they want in the tournament and half for qualifier like TSL
Well, Destiny's votes were gained from legitimate votes, not a bot/hack like PiqLiq's so I would not categorize that as trolling.
Actually your wrong. Destiny's votes have dropped alot.
I know that, but the votes that have been earned were not from automated bots or a hack like the majority of PiqLiq's. His loss votes were the product of someone's trolling as no one else lost that many votes let alone that fast.
lol - I love how much people think voting matters.
These types of threads popped up when they did that fun voting for the GSL and everyone flipped out about "IT SHOUDLN"T BE A POPULARITY CONTEST!!"
People WAY overestimate THEIR importance sometimes. Voting things like that are simply a way to make the community feel involved, and add an interactive feature to the website and drive some traffic. Do you really think someone who is a great player isn't going to get invited because they don't get votes in some fun pole that is thrown up? Do you really think some terrible player is going to end up there because he just votes himself up? Give the people running this some credit.
Also, the most popular players are also pretty much the best players. There isn't like some gold hack out there that everyone loves watching, and at the same time the players that are competitive and near the top of tournaments are also typically popular across the board.
Also, a few open qualifiers or things like that fine to get some fresh faces. But we know who the best players are and who we want to see. I don't want to miss seeing some of the better players because they get knocked out by garbage cheese in some open qualifier.
On February 22 2011 11:47 itungle wrote: i srsly cant stand how people starting to troll this voting system... LIKE COME ON PEOPLE this FKING* tournament is 400k+ and u guys starting to TROLL this voting system....
NASL are generously enough to LET the community speak and I dont think the community is doing what NASL wants. PIQLIQ(cheeser in the community?) and Destiny(streamer) for example I guess have a lot of fame but the thing is they did not accomplish other and did not show enough high level. I felt like NASL should just pick half the people they want in the tournament and half for qualifier like TSL
Well, Destiny's votes were gained from legitimate votes, not a bot/hack like PiqLiq's so I would not categorize that as trolling.
Actually your wrong. Destiny's votes have dropped alot.
I know that, but the votes that have been earned were not from automated bots or a hack like the majority of PiqLiq's. His loss votes were the product of someone's trolling as no one else lost that many votes let alone that fast.
Could be that the Destiny bot used a static IP with some sort of cookie deletion where as the PiQLiQ bot is using proxies or dynamic IPs.
On February 22 2011 11:57 Mauldo wrote: Okay. So I should have figured this out before today, but this is getting utterly retarded everyone. So fucking retarded.
NASL obviously wants to hit the ground running, and that means having 50 players ready to go as of April 5th. So, how should they do that? They're already going to be sinking ungodly amounts of money and man power into the 3 hours of daily content, 5 days a week, for 14 weeks. How can they get a pool of credible contenders without it getting completely out of control with 5000000000 months of open qualifiers and still keep their tournament populated with players that are credible?
Oh. I have an idea. Put up a lot of names of reasonably qualified players and have people vote on them. Then, woah, have Incontrol and other people who are intimately connected with the scene vote on who to put in after taking into account the vote.
Wait, is that what they're doing now? Oh. The way everyone was talking it sounded like Incontrol was just going to let Totalbiscuit fucking play, because he happened to get most of the votes by April 1st.
This is a brand new tournament, and they needed a solid base of players to play. They don't have the funding of the GSL, I'm sure, and couldn't afford to field a humongous qualifying round that takes 3 months.
Fair enough, but why not a simple online, open tournament in NA, where the top X players get invites, along with another Y number of players invited based on what you said? (Where X is > 1... or 4... :/)
Like I said before, perhaps 16 from the open tourney, 32 from invites, resulting in 48, rather than the 50 they already have planned to compete for the final 16 spots.
On February 22 2011 11:47 itungle wrote: i srsly cant stand how people starting to troll this voting system... LIKE COME ON PEOPLE this FKING* tournament is 400k+ and u guys starting to TROLL this voting system....
NASL are generously enough to LET the community speak and I dont think the community is doing what NASL wants. PIQLIQ(cheeser in the community?) and Destiny(streamer) for example I guess have a lot of fame but the thing is they did not accomplish other and did not show enough high level. I felt like NASL should just pick half the people they want in the tournament and half for qualifier like TSL
Well, Destiny's votes were gained from legitimate votes, not a bot/hack like PiqLiq's so I would not categorize that as trolling.
Actually your wrong. Destiny's votes have dropped alot.
I know that, but the votes that have been earned were not from automated bots or a hack like the majority of PiqLiq's. His loss votes were the product of someone's trolling as no one else lost that many votes let alone that fast.
Could be that the Destiny bot used a static IP with some sort of cookie deletion where as the PiQLiQ bot is using proxies or dynamic IPs.
Far more likely that Destiny is just more popular than most progamers, regardless of how much you like/dislike him.
On February 22 2011 09:34 MuteZephyr wrote: That's the only way it should be. The good players who have won lots of tournaments are the popular ones and the ones people want to watch the most. I don't want to watch a bunch of people who just managed to cheese their way into a spot.
You gotta work hard for this tournament, the way it should be.
Uhm, no? Popularity has nothing to do with success.
Well lucky us in StarCraft it does.
Look at that poll to your right, Boxer is the most popular, but you could hardly say that he's better than ANYONE on that list right now.
Edit: Crap, I wasted my 1500 post on this! But I think i made a good point.
Honestly? You think that's a good comparison? Fucking BoxeR?
omg piqliq has over 9000 votes. i rly hope he gets chosen though, imagine the fun of watching a live piqliq cheese and him eventually winning with 20 proxy void rays, priceless...
On February 22 2011 11:47 itungle wrote: i srsly cant stand how people starting to troll this voting system... LIKE COME ON PEOPLE this FKING* tournament is 400k+ and u guys starting to TROLL this voting system....
NASL are generously enough to LET the community speak and I dont think the community is doing what NASL wants. PIQLIQ(cheeser in the community?) and Destiny(streamer) for example I guess have a lot of fame but the thing is they did not accomplish other and did not show enough high level. I felt like NASL should just pick half the people they want in the tournament and half for qualifier like TSL
Well, Destiny's votes were gained from legitimate votes, not a bot/hack like PiqLiq's so I would not categorize that as trolling.
Actually your wrong. Destiny's votes have dropped alot.
I know that, but the votes that have been earned were not from automated bots or a hack like the majority of PiqLiq's. His loss votes were the product of someone's trolling as no one else lost that many votes let alone that fast.
Could be that the Destiny bot used a static IP with some sort of cookie deletion where as the PiQLiQ bot is using proxies or dynamic IPs.
Far more likely that Destiny is just more popular than most progamers, regardless of how much you like/dislike him.
His loss votes were the product of someone's trolling as no one else lost that many votes let alone that fast.
The subject is vote loss not vote gain. Read before replying. We're talking about why he lost so many votes so suddenly.
I dont wanna make assumptions though so I dont wanna say with certainty that that is the reason, it just seems probable. Could very well be wrong though.
On February 22 2011 12:18 Maynarde wrote: My god. This thread continued for 11 pages (so far) mainly about voting qq's after iNcontroL stated the voting means nothing. Amazing...
Actually he only raised more questions.
If voting isn't the "sole factor", then what are the factors? Many different answers will lead to the same result: a very closed tournament, where only already known players have a chance.
Just vote for who you'd like to see play, and let iNcontroL and crew figure out what to do with it. Its not like they're only gonna invite random scrubs to play, nor are they gonna throw our votes out the window. Just let nature take its course, geez.
On February 22 2011 12:18 Maynarde wrote: My god. This thread continued for 11 pages (so far) mainly about voting qq's after iNcontroL stated the voting means nothing. Amazing...
As I recall, iNcontrol said that the voting would not "decide" who would get it. He said it helped. If the voting truly meant nothing, that's a pretty sketchy, dodgy way to "answer" the question of whether voting would have an effect.
People who still believe voting should have no effect whatsoever are still entitled to rant. I, for one, don't really like the fact that polls end up being popularity contests regardless of good intent; however, I acknowledge that it is a nice way to involve the community (and that there probably isn't a better way of doing it).
I find it somewhat predictable but still hilarious that the poll got abused in a manner. Still, just one qualifier spot makes me feel a bit disappointed. Really would've liked to seen some more opportunities for dark horses to come forth.
On February 22 2011 12:18 Maynarde wrote: My god. This thread continued for 11 pages (so far) mainly about voting qq's after iNcontroL stated the voting means nothing. Amazing...
Actually he only raised more questions.
If voting isn't the "sole factor", then what are the factors? Many different answers will lead to the same result: a very closed tournament, where only already known players have a chance.
Sounds good to me for a tournament where the Top 50 are supposed to compete.
Unknown players can make a name for themselves in any of the countless Open tournaments that are held every week, I don't think it's a problem if promoting unknown players is not a priority for the NASL.
There's definitely some merit to be found in a tournament that is held to show off matches between elite players.
Even with that said, there's a finals spot reserved for the winner of an open tournament. With that kind of prize pool, that's very generous as is. There would be no problem to sell this as an Invitational tournament only.
On February 22 2011 12:18 Maynarde wrote: My god. This thread continued for 11 pages (so far) mainly about voting qq's after iNcontroL stated the voting means nothing. Amazing...
You have to see it this way - that's 5 and a half pages full of people arguing for the way NASL does things. :D
On February 22 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: The voting is a fun way to get involved and support your favorite players. It helps but by no means WHAT SO EVER decides who gets selected.
Please stop looking for ways to make this a bad thing.
EPT
Skillz_man Russian Federation. February 22 2011 9:51 Posts 1
more question then i have before announcement...
![[image loading]](http://i52.tinypic.com/2cwpwqx.png)
