VoidRay/Colossus in PvZ - IMBALANCED! - Page 50

On February 23 2011 04:50 Qzy wrote:
If colos + voidray is OP .. Then what about banshees + marauders vs. Toss? Isn't it kinda of the same?

On February 23 2011 04:19 gnutz wrote:
Actually in Europe most Zergs have figured out how to beat this, so it is imo not imbalanced. VR and Colossus are a HUGE investment, it is like getting Mass Ultralisks and Infestors at the same time. So a really only Lategame Army. If you can get there it is fine, but
- on big maps Zerg can easily get T3 in time and some good units. The rest is pure Colossus Imbalance, why it is so hard to beat.
- on smaller maps (like LT, Metal ...) there you have no time to get Voidrays and Colossus. You die nearly to every drop or multi-pronged attack.

I tried it multiple times, but it just doesn't work on 3000 points Masterleague. You cant just go to Voidray and Colossus instant. The only way to get there are mutliple army trades with your normal deathball.

€: Often it works on pro level. I just cannot figure out how. A week ago i saw Insolence do this. He died to a simple Roachdrop from Darkforce.
I think most Pro-Zergs were just way too passive.

On February 23 2011 05:01 emc wrote:


It's a shame that they only talk about this, rather than possibly show it through a replay because to a lot of people it just seems like theory craft between a bunch of whiners. But, it requires a bit more than just sitting in your base, you have to scout and play reactively. Because toss can get hallucinated phoenix and observers, they can basically watch everything you do whether you like it or not, you might be able to deny observers scouting with spores or overseers but that phoenix is gonna get in your base. Essentially it's a sentry expand reactive build that goes for an end game voids and colossi ball. They have a lot of AtA? more stalkers. A lot of GtA? more colossi. They have a hard counter to voids/colossi? hard counter that hard counter. This is what artosis was talking about and idra was basically agreeing that when toss gets to that point there is nothing zerg can do. Of course, there are ALWAYS timing attacks zerg can do to prevent this but I believe the main point, is that once toss gets there, winning is pretty much unobtainable for Zerg.

I mean, I feel that a strong 2 base timing attack with mass hydra drops can kill a toss 100% after a failed warp gate rush or maybe 50-60% if they are turtling. However, this has nothing to do with the build they are discussing, that is just a specific timing against protoss. Yea, low economy (or lower than you are used to seeing from zergs), aggression and tricky tactics can certainly beat a protoss but the point is that if toss can get there it's unbeatable (which may or may not be true, this show is opinionated backed with examples from GSL and practice games, and if you don't like it don't watch it).

Is it unbeatable? Possibly. Why? Because zergs GtA arsenal is just terrible, and their AtG (the mutalisk) just gets beaten by phoenix which is completely doable when going voids/colossi. I'd rather see the scourge return than see a corrupter buff or perhaps just a complete change in the corrupter itself. I really see no use for the corrupter at ALL except to counter massive shit or make broodlords, I feel like this unit had a cool idea but was just stripped of all coolness and is now this stupid boring unit that has an extreme niche.

On February 23 2011 05:16 tyrless wrote:
Huk showed us in his GSL games that neither the Collosus nor Void Ray are integral/necessary to army composition against zerg, and if they were unbalanced as claimed then he and probably every other Protoss in the GSL would be using them religiously.

I think the next show should be about the Mutalisk, could make a much stronger case for that than the Collosus

And lol @ the mutalisks, they are not imbalanced, but it is also hard as hell to play against them. Same thing with TvP early game. Every P player nowadays can survive it (on balanced maps).

On February 23 2011 05:29 Meatpuppet wrote:
The main thing I feel is going on with this show is I think noone wants a boring stale game. A game where sitting on 2 base for 30 minutes and then pushing with a deathball is the best strategy. Ultimately I think these are a couple of starcraft fans wanting to see the game played more dynamically. Thinking on your toes, being very quick, scouting, expanding aggressively.

On February 23 2011 04:50 Qzy wrote:
If colos + voidray is OP .. Then what about banshees + marauders vs. Toss? Isn't it kinda of the same?

On February 23 2011 04:56 Beef Noodles wrote:

hard to call a build that can't attack air OP

On February 23 2011 05:51 Huragius wrote:


Wow... You are either trolling or really bad at the game...

On February 23 2011 06:41 Karu wrote:
@Sid: u didn't scout the front perodicaly (so u didn't saw no sentrys) - so u didn't saw his units NO sentry - pylonblock in front (baneling bust it?!). You saw his fast robo AND the robobay - u respond with 16 lings with speed comming up (could be 8 drones and faster lair).
Fast tech means few units - as day[9] would say: "go fu.cking kill him"

After that u went roach - and spire - and infestation pit and a 9 roach push at minute 11 against a colossi. No Overseer - no scouting after minute 6 to minute 10 (overseer for changeling perhaps - u where practially BLIND)

at 14(!) min u finally tryed to scout - but didn't scout much - your expand is late ...


Your Early and mid game costs u the game - not the "imba deathball".
Getting mutas 2 min earlyer (yeah, 1 phoenix+1 stalker vs 6 mutas = drone harras) forcing units -> less colossi and voidraycount ... and so on ...


TL;DR: wrong & badscouting, wrong techchoices -> blind building army as zerg is your death