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On February 13 2011 04:03 charlie420247 wrote:
god, go back to broodwar then!!!!! its a fantastic game and why WOULDNT you go back. except that the graphics are muddy and horrible and the ai is so bad that playing the game is 90% overcoming the shortcomings of your unit ai and 10% strategy. dont get me wrong, i LOVE bw but sc2 is far superior in terms of gameplay.
maps will come in time
PLAY CUSTOM GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL don't post if you don't know a fucking thing about bw. 10% strategy my ass.
As for the topic, I feel a healthy rotation of ladder maps is all thats necessary to improve the ladder experience, however if we are still laddering on maps like Steppes and Delta Quad when HOTS comes out, I may lose all hope and faith in Blizzard.
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I think that blizzard's ladder system is fine EXCEPT for the fact that they have control over the map pool. Blizzard probably won't want to change the map pool as quickly as say, ICCUP used to, because most people on the lowers levels wouldn't like it I think.
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while reading this thread, I have found that I think the biggest issue is that it is impossible to face a certain matchup on a certain map, so I thought, isn't this relatively easy to fix?
what if there was an additional button in the ladder where you can say: I want to play on this map in this matchup, and the matchmaker would find a suitable opponent for you.
what about farming of points? you might say, well, what if the matchmaker just gives you a tenth of the points you should have gotten, and conversely, lose a tenth of the points you would have lost, while the other player loses/gains the normal amount of points.
(or for that matter, you might not gain/lose any poins at all, that would work too)
this way, you would be able to practice against a random opponent without much fear of losing points while you cant reach master through only playing a single matchup on a single map.
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Really it just comes down to the SC2 custom game system being terrible. Fix that, and you will fix 90% of the problems the players have with the game as it is ^.^
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On February 13 2011 04:58 Jonoman92 wrote:
I think that blizzard's ladder system is fine EXCEPT for the fact that they have control over the map pool. Blizzard probably won't want to change the map pool as quickly as say, ICCUP used to, because most people on the lowers levels wouldn't like it I think.
Browder said that he wished the map pool changed more frequently (every three months or so) I'd imagine once they fix some of the kinks with balance, which is more of a priority imo, and they get on a better schedule thy will do ladder seasons abstract new maps every 3 months.
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same maps do gets boring but you can choose what map to play on, use custom games. maybe the custom games system could use a few improvements. but it is possible.
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Definitely agree with OP: Maps are a big problem, specially 1v1 ones. Either too small, or with glaring favoring of races. It's a big turnoff of 1v1 for me. Some team games maps could be better, but i feel i enjoy some of them somewhat more than most 1v1 blizzard maps.
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Give it time brahs, it will get better.
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It's posts like these that just help fuel the people who say "SC2 sucks, bnet 2.0 sucks". You're just pointing out all the bad things about it without explaining everything.
For example, Bnet 2.0 sucks yes, but remember it's most likely Activision that handled it. I'm sure Blizzard is trying to convince them and/or change it to the way they want it, etc.
No LAN? We already know why (or at least a good reason). It's not because they're against eSports, but because they don't want an organization like Kespa to take "control" of their game.
Also, saying that Blizzard doesn't care about the mappool and won't use user created maps is just wrong. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean they won't do it. It's just a matter of time. Blizzard still has many other things to work on. If they focus all on us team liquid competitive players, which is only a small amount of the players in SC2, what happens if the casual players lose interest and quit? Isn't that bad for the future of SC2? Now, what if us competitive players be more patient, and let Blizzard fix things up such as clan features, tournament features, a better custom game feature, etc., and work on other things to appease the casual players? In the end they keep a much bigger player pool, and then they can concentrate more on the competitive nature of the game.
Like in an interview, Browder said he wanted map seasons of 3-4 months with map changes. How does this show that Blizzard doesn't want to add new maps? He also said the current ladder reset has been postponed much longer than he would have liked.
And again, remember Blizzard doesn't have full control of the game. Activision does. Activision has let Blizzard handle the gaming aspects, but that means that Blizzard does not necessarily have control of the other aspects, such as Bnet 2.0, having only 1 character per account, or even the game being split into "three" (which really is just 1 game + 2 expansions, but everyone keeps putting words into Activision's mouth by claiming each installation will cost $60).
So anyways, just be patient people, and try to avoid complaining about things without doing some research first (not accusing, just a friendly reminder for everyone).
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I went back to broodwar recently because the game is so much faster.
In sc2, you can macro for 80% of your game and then move out for a couple battles.
In broodwar, my first game, I won to my surprise, and looked the replay over. Yet another surprise! The game only lasted 13 minutes, and it felt like 5. I played some more, and I just loved the speed and flow - more micro and playing.
Just seems like there is a lot more to broodwar than sc2, but when the expansion comes out, sc2 will probably take off and stay 'the ultimate' RTS for a long long time, like broodwar did.
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On February 12 2011 19:52 Zionner wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2011 19:45 Tedde93 wrote:
Last i checked BW didn't have ladder, so you played customs games, OH wait i just remembered something you can still do that. . . If you wanna practice against a certain race on a certain map play custom games with a friend. . . Right... and if you are a player in the masters league, and all your friends are in the gold league...how in any sense, would playing custom games with them be helpful?
This is not a bnet 2.0 problem. If you don't have any friends in masters, make some friends in masters. Get on chat channels or IRC and find a practice game.
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Of course its hurting SC2. I quit SC2 mainly because of the points your friends made. The main problem with the ladder is that i cant play the game the way I want to play it. I'm forced to play the game Blizzard wants me to play it, and if I don't want to? Then they have implicitly told me to go and fuck myself cause they ain't changing anything. Trying to find good practice games in that ladder is impossible. And specially after playing like 10 mirror matches in a row you just want to tear your heart out. There is simply no other way to play the game and the amount of effort to find some good practice games wasn't simply worth it.
ICCup ladder was the perfect way of playing SC/BW and such a thing simply can't exist in SC2. The fact is that there isn't anything they can do to at least get me back to the game, to late for that. The ironic thing is that they wanted to cater the causal player with it. But they failed miserably with catering the casual "amateur" player (Serious hobby players). Players like me that like to spend hours gaming, getting good at it, getting some e-penis but with no ambition to win any tournaments or go to Korea. For me and people like me (if there are others??) this title offers honestly nothing but frustration, mainly because of the battle.net.
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If I had a nickle for every time one of these threads showed up....I'd be swimming in fucking nickles. You can join custom games for a reason nobody is forcing you to play on the ladder.
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What really hurting SC2 is the amount of control Blizz wants. It's "our way or the high way"
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Yes, ladder is hurting this game. I hope Blizz realizes it soon. Ladder will become very boring and stereotypical in few months...
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On February 13 2011 03:39 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 03:36 FrostOtter wrote:On February 13 2011 03:06 Arisen wrote:On February 13 2011 02:50 DusTerr wrote:
I think people forget what b.net 1.0 really was like. 2.0 is far from perfect, but I being able to queue up a game and get matched up against similarly skilled opponents is awesome!
I just feel that blizzard should have been building on the successes of iCCup, not the failures of Bnet 1.0. Why would Blizzard copy the model of something thousands of people played over the model of something millions of people played? Because popularity =/= quality. And the fact that most people who ever played BW never even heard of iccup and played nothing more then custom UMS on bnet 1.0
Popularity does, however = money. Blizzard is a company. They like to sell their wares. They also like to retain their IP rights. When people get that through their heads and start trying to work through Blizzard instead of in spite of it, maybe these threads will stop cropping up.
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On February 13 2011 05:37 Fdragon wrote:
If I had a nickle for every time one of these threads showed up....I'd be swimming in fucking nickles. You can join custom games for a reason nobody is forcing you to play on the ladder.
Sorry man. Thats only a half truth. The full truth is this:
*Join custom game
*Game starts
*Find out that the player you are playing is Diamond while you are Bronze or the other way around.
*Try to quit game cause nobody will enjoy that game
*You cant, alt + F4 or wait (the old 30 second countdown) 10 seconds for game to start, then leave.
*Repeat process.
SC2 Battle.net has been alienating players since day 1. It will continue to do so. What i don't understand is why so many players are accepting it.
I mean, the "infrastructure" around the game is just as important as the game itself. With out a good way of playing a good game, the game itself becomes almost unplayable.DOTA is the prime example of this. Such a strong game, but is severely hindered by the "infrastructure" around it and thus playing it on battle.net doesn't work... And so on, you know where the point is going.
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On February 12 2011 19:39 Patriot.dlk wrote:
I think this post lacks a conclusion or a tl:dr that just explains your point in as few words as possible.
I also dont have a problem with the ladder at all.
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On February 13 2011 05:42 SyyRaaaN wrote:
SC2 Battle.net has been alienating players since day 1. It will continue to do so. What i don't understand is why so many players are accepting it.
Because the smart ones have figured out that playing against better players is a learning experience, and that, if nothing else, playing against worse players allows you to practice basic macro skills.
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The only things I think they need to change are adding custom maps to the pool, as well as LAN support. Everything else seems to be ok as far as the ladder is concerned, maybe a few tweeks to the matchmaking system tho.
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EPT
