ESL TV has got a new weekly StarCraft II show focused on improving lower level players and entertaining high level pros every Monday, Feb 7 at 19:00 CET.
Those of you that watched the first days of the Intel Extreme Masters European Championship where I stepped in and filled a vacant commentator seat may remember: Kevin "RotterdaM" van der Kooi and I talked about the new show - here it comes.
When I tried learning StarCraft II, I had a difficult time finding well-packaged instructional vidoes about how to get better at the game. The show will try to help fill this gap, but it will also deliver a lot of fun to the better players (big props to Shawn for figuring out how to do the latter).
In the first part of the show Rotti will share some of his RTS knowledge for the newbies. His pro gaming friends will also show some of their favourite build orders. For the rest, I will be trying to improve my skills and go through all sorts of practice drills live on air. In other words, I will make a fool of myself and embarrass myself big time.
The end goal for me is to ladder me up from Bronze all the way to Diamond or Master level and win a competitive StarCraft II match. Tune in Mondays and leave us feedback here so we can improve the show!
Does it mean that Carmac will play Protoss since Rotterdamn plays P and he seems pretty strict on himself about other races in a way that he always claim that he does not want to commentate on other races too much because he feels he is lacking and always refer to Demuslim or Darkforce for T/Z?
Really cool concept, like a reality show somewhat. Will definitely be checking it out, think the progress is gonna be really cool to see and with the pro's putting in some comments aswell, I'm sure there will be some tricks to pick up on. Goodluck Carmac.
LOL carmac is so awesome. Loved your casting and this show is pretty funny. Pretty good show. Def better than watching tv.
is there any chance u can try to get this added to the calender? I suck with european time conversion and i'm worse at remember what show happens when.
Carmac really needs to relax and listen to some criticism a little bit more.
Accept the fact that your fundamentals are flawed and be willing to learn - I think you need to not even worry about build orders yet, I think you need to learn how to use hotkeys, how to maximise your minerals and focus a little bit more on getting better rather than getting frustrated.
Nice idea for a show though. Looking forward to next weeks if Carmac chills a little bit.
Honestly I think first of all carmac needs to fix his additude first, no arguing/whining with the guy who's trying to teach you, no matter how stressful the situation is.
I think one of the problems is that being a non-active-player who watching pros play, Carmac knows what to do like:
"ok I need stalkers and obs against his mass banshee"
But the reality is the guy he is playing has no clue what he is doing, so he is doing REALLY weird stuff like building 15 turrets which is a strange hard counter to observers.
I hope Carmac isnt to hard on himself. He needs to accept that he knows nothing and blindly believe in rottis words. If hes motivated and willing to learn there will be no problems. Oh and Carmac get used to loose 50% of your games...
On February 08 2011 04:11 knL wrote: Oh and Carmac get used to loose 50% of your games...
But if he loses 50% of his games he will remain Bronze League forever ^^
His biggest problem right now is that he doesn't use hotkeys at all. Imo he should fix this first (considering he roughly knows how to play the game in theory).
I think maybe that's the point of this show. If Carmac is that accepting, that will be boring / too similar to day9 daily. Like he will listen to everything Rotti says and will do it and slowly but surely advance. That's too typical.
I am guessing this show is meant to be more about the person /interaction between Carmac and Rotti. And i think sooner or later Rotti/ Carmac will explode and things become tense between them. In fact, i see similarities with Hyungjoon show that it isn't so much about him becoming good, it's about his interaction with people around him.
I really liked the idea of the show, and i thought it had real potential, but it turned out that it was just total garbage. rotti showed no enthusiasm at all (which is very unusual for him, i usually really enjoy his casting) and carmac showing how to split probes to start the show- totally out of place.
Carmac even showed some BM towards Rotti, totally useless aswell, because the coaching is the essence of the show, right? I understand that its hard to talk, listen and play at the same time, but it really looked like the guys didnt even prepare anything and just started playing.
if u want to start from NOTHING (like miniwheat is doing) get someone who has never heard about the game and really teach him from the start. even though carmac apparently doesnt even knows the hotkeys and basic mechanics of the game, he still pretends to have some knowledge which is very annoying aswell.
I'll propably watch it once more, but if you dont manage to improve drastically (or atleast add some entertainment value- maybe in the form of joe trying to do some 'pro commentating' while rotti is seperately coaching carmac without the audience hearing about it) im not going to watch the show any longer.
On February 08 2011 04:09 escobari wrote: Honestly I think first of all carmac needs to fix his additude first, no arguing/whining with the guy who's trying to teach you, no matter how stressful the situation is.
On February 08 2011 04:17 Scarmony wrote: I really liked the idea of the show, and i thought it had real potential, but it turned out that it was just total garbage. rotti showed no enthusiasm at all (which is very unusual for him, i usually really enjoy his casting) and carmac showing how to split probes to start the show- totally out of place.
Carmac even showed some BM towards Rotti, totally useless aswell, because the coaching is the essence of the show, right? I understand that its hard to talk, listen and play at the same time, but it really looked like the guys didnt even prepare anything and just started playing.
if u want to start from NOTHING (like miniwheat is doing) get someone who has never heard about the game and really teach him from the start. even though carmac apparently doesnt even knows the hotkeys and basic mechanics of the game, he still pretends to have some knowledge which is very annoying aswell.
I'll propably watch it once more, but if you dont manage to improve drastically (or atleast add some entertainment value- maybe in the form of joe trying to do some 'pro commentating' while rotti is seperately coaching carmac without the audience hearing about it) im not going to watch the show any longer.
This is how I feel as well. The first segment with the worker splitting and how to count workers seemed painfully out of place. The rest was pretty funny with the achievements and Carmac's overall bad attitude. Hopefully we actually see some improvement and *real* coaching in the future episodes. We can't be too hard on them, they did say this was an introductory episode and things will be vastly different moving forward.
I think the concept and the show itself is pretty good, but as we are lucky to have some kind of interactive show here I just want to say some things they are probably reading:
We have seen that Carmac is truly a bronze player at the moment. No shame. The show is all about getting a bronze player into masters and becoming a badass SC2 player. Anyways in my opinion that should also be the way Rotti has to practise Carmac. It should be more like "step-by-step" and not throwing in a lot of pretty good ideas (Blink, High Templar and Feedback, etc.) which was obviously too hard to execute for Carmac. And therefore his game was affected in a bad way and that was probably why he asked him to stay quiet.
That slightly ruined the show towards the end in my opinion. I think it would be better if Rotterdam only reminds Carmac to do things to achieve his gameplan. Especially the essential things like building probes, building pylons, checking money, checking minimap. I think it's way better for Carmac to do ingame decision by himself and afterwards it would be time for Rotterdam to play out all his knowledge. I think you are learning way better between matches. Not only Carmac also all the viewers out there.
I don't wanna be negative or say that the show was bad. I'm just hoping that one of them is reading and maybe picking up some ideas from viewers. For the next time I'd like to see Carmac going into the game with a specific gameplan (like rely on a lot of gateway units + collossos or sth.). Therefore he tries to execute that one as good as possible with small help from Rotterdam and after that it would be interesting to hear the decision making and argumentation by Rotti himself.
Just my 2 cents, looking forward to the next show and cheers to both of you! See you CeBIT. o/
This was a great idea for a show but Carmac needs to be willing to learn. I rage every now and then too but an hour long show is most about a guy telling his coach to shut up so he can focus, it's worthless in my eyes. Same thing happen on Incontrols stream the other day where a Zerg would not play again banelings cause he was terrible at them so he stop himself from learning.
Quick notes: Relax and have fun so the audience is having fun, you will get to master league if your getting constantly coached and LISTENING to it. But a bit of rage humor is always welcomed
Thanks for the feedback. I would like to say a few things on my not taking advice:
a) I am a low level player and it's hard enough to focus when you have three bases. b) I would rather tallk about my mistakes after the game. Blindly executing orders does not give you an understanding of WHY I should do one thing or another.
We are both doing the show kind of "on the side" right now, which is why the opening part was not as good as it will be next week. Next week we will have instructional videos and so on.
As for the show in general - it's going to evolve and we're going to make damn sure that it will be better every single week. We're also working on our chemistry together - the next shows will be smoother, I think.
Anyway, thanks for tuning in, thanks for the feedback and be ready to be surprised next week, because I will be way, way better!
Thanks for the feedback. I would like to say a few things on my not taking advice:
a) I am a low level player and it's hard enough to focus when you have three bases. b) I would rather tallk about my mistakes after the game. Blindly executing orders does not give you an understanding of WHY I should do one thing or another.
We are both doing the show kind of "on the side" right now, which is why the opening part was not as good as it will be next week. Next week we will have instructional videos and so on.
As for the show in general - it's going to evolve and we're going to make damn sure that it will be better every single week. We're also working on our chemistry together - the next shows will be smoother, I think.
Anyway, thanks for tuning in, thanks for the feedback and be ready to be surprised next week, because I will be way, way better!
show was amazing Carmac, i hope you and Rotterdam continue to bea hillarious duo =)
On February 08 2011 04:17 Scarmony wrote: I really liked the idea of the show, and i thought it had real potential, but it turned out that it was just total garbage. rotti showed no enthusiasm at all (which is very unusual for him, i usually really enjoy his casting) and carmac showing how to split probes to start the show- totally out of place.
Carmac even showed some BM towards Rotti, totally useless aswell, because the coaching is the essence of the show, right? I understand that its hard to talk, listen and play at the same time, but it really looked like the guys didnt even prepare anything and just started playing.
if u want to start from NOTHING (like miniwheat is doing) get someone who has never heard about the game and really teach him from the start. even though carmac apparently doesnt even knows the hotkeys and basic mechanics of the game, he still pretends to have some knowledge which is very annoying aswell.
I'll propably watch it once more, but if you dont manage to improve drastically (or atleast add some entertainment value- maybe in the form of joe trying to do some 'pro commentating' while rotti is seperately coaching carmac without the audience hearing about it) im not going to watch the show any longer.
I watched it but it became a bit painful around halfway. The above sums up exactly how I feel. I do however, would like to place emphasize on the following point. That is the way the coaching gets approached. Which is the fundament of the show. It needs to have structure, it needs to follow almost a set up plan. You cannot just wing it and given the fact an episode runs for roughly 60 minutes, an inactive part is almost unacceptable. I would like to suggest screening the replays before hand, you can agree on something to execute, and then during the show you can play, with kevin can constantly spamming suggestions and things for you do. And again, I feel it's very important in learning to shed out as much as possible, to make it less complex and gives more overview so you can focus on very specific points. In terms of approaching this there needs to be some basic things to start with and build it up every week, you can practice exactly those things at home. With the disorganisation in this episode, I can see too many random suggestions that come from 100 different sides at once, turn it into something non productive. Write up some points, maybe have a look at some of MrBitters coaching vods or similar ones for some ideas. These are purely suggestions, I hope I don't come off strong, I just really want to enjoy this show and will be tuning in again next week because I feel the concept has a lot of untapped potential. Again, goodluck carmac.
Wow Guys, calm down. As Rotterdam already said. The first Show was only to show and present you the Player who is going to get choached by Rotterdam. Now you all know what a kind of Player Awaits you in the future shows. Dont worry, Rotti is real good at analysing and teaching. There will be great Shows in the future for sure
On February 08 2011 09:18 Carmac wrote: I played at home tonight and I'm not ashamed to say I beat silver players 5 times ;-) I will be much better next Monday!
Good job! You'll be a master in no time :X
No seriously, very good of you to practice the basics on your own. Should make the show much more entertaining.
Really had fun with this carmac. You both are real, don't make something of this show that it's not. You won't be a pro in a month, just try to improve so the users can follow up with your "rise"
Also, unlike quite a substantial number of people in this thread I do not consider this show to be a coaching show. It is simply an entertainment show and not a bad one as well. Both hosts are easily likeable which is very important.
1) If you have a german keyboard, you can switch to english Layout by pressing ALT+SHIFT once. THat way Y<->Z and you can play the way you are used to.
2) Have a showdown with DJWheats Pupil sometimes ^^
I watched the first show and loved it. It's not the learning (Carmac was just terri-fucking-bad) but the personalities that both players bring in.
Carmac was some hot shot UT player in Poland. Thus has a big e-penis. Forgive him he's awesome otherwise to know.
Rotti was just hilarious with comments like protoss macro master, are you serious?
I agree with him keeping quiet but that's because Carmac requested it. I would definitely say he should talk more add in more comments and also explain about the typical problems players face when moving up leagues. Carmac's gold level already. FROM FREAKING BRONZE. I'd definitely like to know the insights.
On February 15 2011 00:48 ngri wrote:By the way, does anyone else feel awkward calling Rotterdam Rotterdam, somehow it's odd for me to call a person a city.
On February 15 2011 02:52 Carmac wrote: We are going live in 10 minutes, guys. We're giving away a unique StarCraft II miniature from Blizzard and a set of Razer equipment on the show.
And I'll get very very hurt today................
Should see if you can it featured on the Tl sidebar
Stream is great, VoD keeps "losing" the file or something because it will play to a certain point then I have to load the page and inch the thing along.
I don't think that Rotterdam is teaching Carmac the right way. Jumping between bases and scouting isn't really important in the gold league. He should give Carmac 1 safe build against each race (e.g. Robo build to be able to defend against DTs and Banshees) and the only thing Carmac should focus on is macro. It's by far the most important thing to learn in sc2.
some tips for rotterdam: - focus more on probe production - gold league players should always build more gateways than master league players to keep their money low - please no cute stuff like harassing with 2 stalker. It hurts so much more than it benefits carmac, because he doesn't do anything else in that time.
If carmac focuses only on macro, defends everything and only attacks at 200/200 he will be a diamond player. I know that, I've taught my brother like that and he started to micro his units at the time he was in diamond.
On February 15 2011 04:19 vdale wrote: I don't think that Rotterdam is teaching Carmac the right way. Jumping between bases and scouting isn't really important in the gold league. He should give Carmac 1 safe build against each race (e.g. Robo build to be able to defend against DTs and Banshees) and the only thing Carmac should focus on is macro. It's by far the most important thing to learn in sc2.
some tips for rotterdam: - focus more on probe production - gold league players should always build more gateways than master league players to keep their money low - please no cute stuff like harassing with 2 stalker. It hurts so much more than it benefits carmac, because he doesn't do anything else in that time.
If carmac focuses only on macro, defends everything and only attacks at 200/200 he will be a diamond player. I know that, I've taught my brother like that and he started to micro his units at the time he was in diamond.
Very good suggestions. Also laddering is probably not the best way to teach these things, get a decent player to play customs on a specific map in one matchup per week.
Also MrBitter's way is the one i personally think is the best. The pro (Rotti) plays 1 or 2 games against the guy to show what he wants carmac to do and takes him through is thought process, if possible he can even answer Carmac's questions during the game. Afterwards he can try himself. That way teaching is way more specific and Carmac will be able to get a much deeper understanding into WHY he does certain things in a situation.
Besides that, i find both Rotti and Carmac hilarious and soo likeable, i would probably watch anything they do. Keep up the show, this will also motivate many people to try to improve as well.
On February 15 2011 04:26 stolensheep wrote: I think the way rotterdam is teaching carmac is fine, it just seems that carmac doesn't have the apm & mechanics to do everything that rotterdam says!
Exactly, so you try to get down one basic mechanic at a time. Very early harass was overdoing it. Once muscle memory for good macro kicks in you can work on the finer points.
I saw the first episode today. It was really fun to watch. I am quite looking forward to the next episode to be out as a VOD. Glad to hear you made it to gold league Carmack. Day 9 has mentioned how hard it is to talk and play at the same time.
i think its counterproductive if Rotti tries to teach you things in a running game. He should commentate and point out mistakes for the viewers and let you play without distraction. And then analyze the replay, where Rotti shows you mistakes, asks you why you are doing certain things etc.
I really enjoyed the first episode and can't wait for the VOD for the 2nd ep. Being in bronze and working my way up myself, I find these types of resources great. I noticed in the first episode that carmac clicks everything. I would hope hot keys and tapping are big part of episode 2. It would probably have the most immediate impact on his play. I know it did for me.
@Carmac I just enjoyed the second episode. I can already see you are playing better. These are a couple thoughts I had about your play in the games.
In the PvT game on Steppes of War right after you got dropped and lost tons of probes. I think you should have tried to attack him. Your econ was so damaged that your opponent was sure to be further ahead of you in five minutes because he was just mining the whole time and lost 0 workers.
Also on the PvT on close positions on Metalopolis. It was really bad to attack with your 3 imortals a 5 zealots. You had just spent a ton of money on your expansion and had not yet made the money back so your army was sure to be smaller than your opponent.
Also: thanks for the feedback. Everything you guys write here as advice is very highly appreciated. I do want to become a much better player than now and I am slowly getting there.
On February 16 2011 23:59 Carmac wrote: Hey guys, VOD link is added to the OP.
Also: thanks for the feedback. Everything you guys write here as advice is very highly appreciated. I do want to become a much better player than now and I am slowly getting there.
Constantly produce units out of your gateways, especially the first one, Its the biggest issue atm judging from your last games, having a bigger army/better macro than your opponent makes up for alot of mistakes and lack of experience
Aww I cant believe I missed the first of these. Carmac fighting!
Huge guts to do this Carmac and I love that you sound more posh speaking English than me. Nice diction.
It can be hard listening to someone telling you what to do I liken it to early driving lessons when you know they are right but you just cant act on everything they are telling you right away and it can make you worse for a bit.
Edit: Gold already pleased that you got up to gold so quick but a bit sad too. Wanted you to show how to pwn bronze builds like we saw the first show.
If carmac really has attention problem and he can't digest what rotterdam is saying while playing, i believe rotti should outline the basic plan of what he want carmac to do before the game. Do not reveal what the plan is when already inside a game.
Something like. Ok for the next game, i want you to do a 3 gate robo and rush to colossus. Put 1 gate - robotics and then add 2 more gates.
Once carmac has an idea of what he will need to do in the game., it will be much easier to remind him from time to time. For now, he is confused because he is constantly surprised by the direction rotti is taking him.
Wow carmac seemed to be pretty angry after the show
Rotti gave good advises, though its hard to get them while playing anyhow Carmacs words of playing his own style, while rotti told him to play 3 gate robo
as idra once said play solid builds till your good then bring in creativity if carmac continues to play fake stargate into 4 gate skirmish he will get wins and higher leagues but he learns NOTHING really nothing play solid to improve macro and micro strategy/cheese advantage should be your last goal
and by the way i want rottis and carmacs signature on that raynor figure
I dont know if you guys have actually tried it, but trying to hold a conversation, or listen to instructions whilst playing a game is seriously difficult - let alone live to an audience. When im playing ladder I am not even paying attention to a single note of seriously loud music a few inches from my face - need maximum focus to do my best.
Its kind of an inherent problem with any kind of live coaching, I guess either Carmac needs to practice under these circumstances, or Rotti needs to learn how to condense information to only say a few words about the very most important things in a game.
In any case, I dont think it is fair to criticize too much that someone struggles to do this - try it yourself by putting on an audiobook/radio talkshow or such and try focus on every word while laddering :p
I love the fact each show is getting better tho - in production aswell as Carmac's skills ^^
No worries, guys. This is a new concept and we're learning how to perfect it as we go along.
I think for the next show we'll come up with a series of drills and focus on replay analysis rather than playing live matches (unless they are challenges like the one vs. Phil from Fnatic).
By the way: I want to LEARN to play the game properly, not cheese or all in every single game. I just wanted to get a solid build order learned properly so I can execute it well, then begin to find basic deviations, etc. etc.
I think I'll be posting some replays soon so people could actually give me tips as well, if you're interested (I know some people are and I'm grateful for it) =)
LOL i watched episode 1... man you have to use the space bar more often and also micro ur scouts and just use hotkeys to build. It was pretty funny seeing you try to macro with just mouse and click and occasional hotkey.
You're not practicing enough - you need to MASS games MUCH more. 3 and a half weeks and it says you've played just over 100 games on your bnet profile. If I was playing even semi-serious I would do that amount of games in a couple of days.
On February 23 2011 23:42 raz` wrote: You're not practicing enough - you need to MASS games MUCH more. 3 and a half weeks and it says you've played just over 100 games on your bnet profile. If I was playing even semi-serious I would do that amount of games in a couple of days.
Hey man, I have a day job, which happens to be making sure the Intel Extreme Masters World Championship is awesome. The event is in 4 days ;-)
I agree with Rotterdam on the part that you try to do alot more advanced stuff that doesnt really pay of in the lower leagues.
For example, you do your fake SG into 4 gate, sure it's good. But if your opponent is too noob to watch what he is scouting, which is a reality in that lvl of play, I did the same thing when I was lower league. I would send out an SCV, but I was so busy doing other things I didnt rly watch what it was scouting all the time, then your tact is just a waste of gas and time.
Instead learn to 4-gate or 3-gate-robo and do it well, because it might sound and seem boring. But there is a BIG difference in a good and a bad 4-gate. So much can go wrong, so trying to do WP drops or Immortal drops or such is just not good for you. I know how it feels to watch pro's play and wanting to copy their stuff, but in reality it's soooo much more than just copying it. You need the timing, the gameplay sense and reaction time.
I enjoy watching your show. I think it might be better if you find it hard to play whilst Rotterdam is talking to you, then maybe he can tell you what he wants you to do before the game, and then you can talk about it after (and he can just commentate during the game). You need to try to just listen more and give him a chance to say whatever point he is trying to make.
man... another week and no game.. Carmac.. You will fail so hard.. Maybe become downgraded to silver.. xD Thats funny. ... hehe ...eh..sad..of course. I had great hope... :./
i won that maradeur nooby thing has been 2 weeks or something and i thought esl is contacting me but nothing happend yet ^^ just wanted to post a little reminder
On March 05 2011 02:33 dizzy101 wrote: Eh.. they're busy organising the best non-Korean SC2 tourney worldwide?! Give the guys a break, they'll be back
Yeah...heard about that..everybody is talking about it.. But..I am too dumb to find the streams... I read somewhere that streams were forbidden by some pissed-off-company.. But I don´t know if that is right.
Well,.. do you have links to streams and times when they are actually on air? (I don´t mean the counter strike streams and that where take throws stuff into the crowd of nerds, while moaning about they don´t shout enough..^^ Man... they are nerds... shouting is very unnatural to em,..except they get owned by a couple of banelings. rofl. xD
Hey kids, we're coming back Monday at 19:00 CET! Both Rotti and I are super tired from the Intel Extreme Masters World Championship, but I want to be Platinum asap! =)
On March 07 2011 05:33 Carmac wrote: Hey kids, we're coming back Monday at 19:00 CET! Both Rotti and I are super tired from the Intel Extreme Masters World Championship, but I want to be Platinum asap! =)
On March 07 2011 05:33 Carmac wrote: Hey kids, we're coming back Monday at 19:00 CET! Both Rotti and I are super tired from the Intel Extreme Masters World Championship, but I want to be Platinum asap! =)
You looked like you were ready to die up there on stage at the end. Take a vacation and rest! You deserve it! Great event.
Tune in tomorrow bad lads , some IEM Recap as Carmac said and I'll try to hammer a bit more on the basics, free training for everyone who aint 3k+ master league ;P, time that I practise myself a bit as well though haha, barely played since Cebit, but I'll take care of that, cu tomorrow 19 cet as always
but i think i play slightly better cause i use these hotkeys.. but i am still stuck in bronze cause i dont wanna go for these rush builds and just wanna do macro games and so losing more often
When u lifted up a larva instead of the queen with your phoenix i couldnt stop laughing:D, I really think you need to just focus basics, like constantly producing units
On March 16 2011 14:35 shaunnn wrote: When u lifted up a larva instead of the queen with your phoenix i couldnt stop laughing:D, I really think you need to just focus basics, like constantly producing units
That was certainly a moment I find really amusing now, but certainly not during the show
On March 16 2011 14:35 shaunnn wrote: When u lifted up a larva instead of the queen with your phoenix i couldnt stop laughing:D, I really think you need to just focus basics, like constantly producing units
That was certainly a moment I find really amusing now, but certainly not during the show
Rofl I didnt even know it was possible:D, keep up the practise though you are definitely improving in mechanics you just made decisions this time around rather than losing because of being completely outclassed, akin to anyone having a bad day tbh but all those mistakes wouldnt matter if your macro was solid
But still you get very very panicky when stuff happens and make some really bad decision, such as running in a 15 Siege Tank line and having your units not even killing them
Why don't you guys just agree on 3 basic BOs, one per matchup and forget strategy for the next few shows to really work on mechanics and execution? I think this micro training and those phoenix builds just set Carmac back way more than they could ever help. I am sure, he would have way faster success if he just used 3gate expand vsZ, 3gate Robo vsT and 4gate vsP. To be honest after those rapid improvements in the first 2 episodes Carmac's level seems to stagnate.
I really think you should start with basics: pylons and probes. You'd be surprised how "having more stuff" is simply going to win you games. Combine this with one build per matchup, you don't have too much to think about. The biggest flaw with your way of learning right now (imho) is that you're constantly trying to do stuff you saw guys pull off in tourneys. Avoid that, you want to start by being solid. I actually think Rotti doesn't quite understand this, because some things are automatic for him. They're not. One step at a time...
When I say solid I mean really precise. When I test builds I just start YABOT and set game to just run, and when I've reached a certain point (a building, a food cap...), I just type '-r' and it immediately resets. Once a build is more or less mastered just ladder it out to pull it off with the extra pressure. Practice partners can help you with this as well.
Once you master the basic "pump out as much as I can" with your builds (again, keep it simple), experience will follow naturally - You'll start feeling that some things could go better, like placement, or timings. Rotti can obviously help you here, but don't try and go too fast.
In at least one of day9's dailys, he makes a great analysis: Don't look at the last battle you engaged in and say "aww if I'd just controlled that better I would have one". Look back a bit further, and see that there might have been something that basically killed you earlier. A really effective harrass might have crippled you so much that it's pointless cursing at the last attack, since you were already dead way earlier. In your case, it might not be a harrass that set you back, but just getting supply blocked, not producing probes, or forgetting to pump out units.
Oh and don't take losing so seriously, it just makes things harder for you. Do something whacky from time to time, like carrier rushing, pure zealot attacking, who knows. You'll probably lose but I always have a good laugh doing that kind of stuff and it really takes away the pressure
Oh and of course the day9 newbie tuesdays are a great starting point!
Show format: The issue is that letting Carmac play and then re-watching the whole game would be too long. Rotti should have some paper, and take notes on the really important aspects that Carmac didn't realize during the game, and then rush through the replay showing those crucial points. At Carmac's current level don't tell him about micro, just show him "look, if you hadn't supply blocked yourself here you would have X more units now" or "you see, you did more damage than you thought here".
Wow that turned out longer than anticipated! I know I stated a lot of obvious things, but these points (learned thanks to dayJ) helped me jump from silver to high plat really fast.
I agree with mistamike get him practising off of ladder. Ladder is stressing him its better to get him in unstressful situations to practice the builds to the point where its automatic for him. At least make sure he gets his first 4 minutes absolutely perfect and identical to a progamer. If he can do that and trust in the build he we be in a good position regardless of what the oppenent does even if he goes something random or cheesy.
I remember when i was learning the game I had horrible trouble until I got my early game down perfectly. If you're macro is better than the other guy you shouldn't lose. If you are losing it means you're macro is worse simple as that sorry to say Carmac. Also Carmac is so standoffish which is silly since Rotterdam has a tone of knowledge every word he says should be gospel.
On March 20 2011 21:43 ipx wrote: I agree with mistamike get him practising off of ladder. Ladder is stressing him its better to get him in unstressful situations to practice the builds to the point where its automatic for him. At least make sure he gets his first 4 minutes absolutely perfect and identical to a progamer. If he can do that and trust in the build he we be in a good position regardless of what the oppenent does even if he goes something random or cheesy.
I remember when i was learning the game I had horrible trouble until I got my early game down perfectly. If you're macro is better than the other guy you shouldn't lose. If you are losing it means you're macro is worse simple as that sorry to say Carmac. Also Carmac is so standoffish which is silly since Rotterdam has a tone of knowledge every word he says should be gospel.
This is without doubt the best way to practice but it really wouldnt make for a good show watching carmac practicing in single player v very easy ai, doing the same first 6-7 minutes over and over untill he knows it perfectly, he should do that it in his free time with standard protoss builds, 4gate for pvp, 3gate expand for pvz and 2/3gate robo for pvt.
I really really like the show and iam learning quite a lot from this show and i think that's the problem as it was already mentioned. The issues Rotti points out are really necessary if you wanna try to get from platinum to diamond or even master but not for someone who is atm at silver/gold niveau. As i started i only played 4v4 or 3v3s where the first mins of a game doesn't matter that much as it is in 1v1s. Rotti said it perfectly, if you try a special build, every second counts and if you loose time buy not building probes, unemployed workers or concentrating on microing your probe in the enemie's base instedad of building your core you will miss the window and loose if you are on the same level as your enemy, who doesnt do some fancy scouting.
For me the best way was to just send in a probe to scout his position and if he takes gas (T), builds pool (Z), after that i often retreated or lost my probe. I only played 3gate robo (or rarely) 4gate which can (on low level) deal with most builds. Ofc i was dead if my enemy did some cheese or unusual build because my scout was probably dead and i forgot to send a new one but in normal games i often had the edge over my opponent (I am still talking about bronze/silver) when my feared a-click destroyed his whole base. After i had "mastered" my first mins (as far as a noob can) i discovered that i can spare some apm to scout more and prepare better for my a-click move. Despite that i lost quite a bunch of games and got quite frustrated cause i felt that i was playing better than my opponent. So i "discovered" the sentry a unit which looked before so stupid to me (no damage, forcefields cost too much micro, guardian shield didnt seem so great) and recognized that it is the sentry that makes toss able to compete with the stronger terran and zerg army. The key for success is to establish a standard game and get some wins out of it before you surely get bad looses. Then you need take the next step and get more wins before you get again really bad looses and need to improve again. At the beginning you need to win with well executed builds, then u can think what your next step is, my suggestions: 1) Improve (battle-) micro 2) improve scouting Only after that i would and did vary my bo.
Actually, OP updated with the previous 2 episodes (me cheesing the entire show, Joe Miller coached). We're probably going to play a big and super important 1on1, Joe Miller and I, next week!
7 pm CET right ? hope u make it, i am silver and play 80 % against plat and my win ratio is 21 wins 4 losses @bnet when do i and Carmac are getting promoted to plat pls^^
On April 12 2011 01:55 ZeraToss wrote: 7 pm CET right ? hope u make it, i am silver and play 80 % against plat and my win ratio is 21 wins 4 losses @bnet when do i and Carmac are getting promoted to plat pls^^
What was up with you today Carmac, you seemed really on edge I was only able to watch the first 2 matches and I know you can do better than that! Keep training, I should do the same really :p
Make him play this custom map into next show Rotti, i think his multitasking is the big problem. I want to see if hes able to beat it in normal difficulty atleast, good training :D
Tonight's show will have me, the newb, dictate what RotterdaM does in ladder. So quite the turnaround of ideas - gold level understanding of strategy and master level execution.
Now that you've started to actually play a good quantity of games we can see definite improvement. I still don't really get this focus you guys have on micro though, getting real builds will help you so much more than a bit of control. Multitasking is also way more important, imagine you lose your 3 units but you rewarp 6 in your base. You're in an ok-ish spot. Or you control your 3 units, lose 2 and have one with 5hp, but don't warp anything in. Watch replays just focusing on one thing, e.g. probe production or forgetting a pylon, see how much you do when you're in a fight (you have hotkeys, use them to check if you can produce stuff), or watch your chronoboosts. Yup, it's not as good as it feels while in-game huh. That's where you should start.
Thanks, guys, I'm certainly trying to improve (though I'm so horrible recently that battle.net pits me against Silver leaguers). I need to stop playing ladder, though, and start isolating the skills I suck at in practice.
Really dissapointed with the show. Past week Rotti playing, now Carmac vs Joe, next week Rotti vs that annoying german guy? Is this Rotterdam University anymore?
I dont undestand. Probably not gonna tune in again for the show.
On May 03 2011 03:21 TheConquereer wrote: Really dissapointed with the show. Past week Rotti playing, now Carmac vs Joe, next week Rotti vs that annoying german guy? Is this Rotterdam University anymore?
I dont undestand. Probably not gonna tune in again for the show.
Carmac was supposed to 1v1 Joe Miller a while ago... This has been mentioned on the show for weeks now. Idk what your complaining about : /
On May 03 2011 03:21 TheConquereer wrote: Really dissapointed with the show. Past week Rotti playing, now Carmac vs Joe, next week Rotti vs that annoying german guy? Is this Rotterdam University anymore?
I dont undestand. Probably not gonna tune in again for the show.
Keep following us on Facebook - we consistently keep people informed on what we're planning for the next episodes. Meanwhile, I'll be building a rig to stream some of my practice.
Carmac has been retrograded in silver league, this guy just don't take this seriously why couldn't they take someone who's motivated who's capable to play more than 5game per day...
On May 05 2011 21:37 Wicelo wrote: Carmac has been retrograded in silver league, this guy just don't take this seriously why couldn't they take someone who's motivated who's capable to play more than 5game per day...
I assure you that I'm taking this very seriously. The amount of time that I have may not be on my side, but I'm as hungry for nerd blood as it gets.
Also, Take's statement, "Terran is not easy if you don't have micro," was pretty funny at the moment he said it.
Carmac, I would like to thank you for giving HuK some practice before he went to Korea. If you ever hear him communicate with OGS members this is basically how it is...
I love the show Carmac, don't listen to the trolls, either! You are definately bad, but it works! If Rotterdam had you in masters already it wouldn't make for a good show. It's like Made on MTV or something. The best part is how they're molding your horrible RTS skills into something resembling a decent gamer. Keep at it Rotti!
Why I have to be ESL.tv member to watch this episode? I really hope this is just an error that’s going to be fixed soon. Or at least make it available via youtube.
On May 12 2011 01:46 b0bby wrote: Why I have to be ESL.tv member to watch this episode? I really hope this is just an error that’s going to be fixed soon. Or at least make it available via youtube.
On May 12 2011 01:46 b0bby wrote: Why I have to be ESL.tv member to watch this episode? I really hope this is just an error that’s going to be fixed soon. Or at least make it available via youtube.
EPT
Good Luck Carmac^^
![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/lays_classicddwb.gif)
