|
On January 15 2011 10:15 wankey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 09:44 razboi wrote:
It might not be perfect but it shows us that they are trying. I kinda like BNet the way it is. Can it be improved more, yes, I think so. But so far, i'm a satisfied customer. Are you kidding me? It might not be perfect but it shows us that they are trying. Are you KIDDING ME? Yes, for a startup company, or maybe an amateur game design company or hell, maybe even Valve in their early days of Steam, but BLIZZARD. Oh the almighty BLIZZARD, the same people we gave 7 years to make a sequel game. Who rake in more money than EA and Activision COMBINED. What on earth were they thinking? Who designed this custom game fail? Fire Greg Cannessa please, fire him now. Do you realize how much you're all been gipped? I can make you a masters league in 5 minutes. Write a PHP code to filter all to 10% of players, design a new icon, and voila, a completely new feature called masters league is upon us! All hail masters league! None of the features they've come up with are ACTUALLY useful. Where is the categorization? Where is the search in custom games? Why didn't they look at Warcraft 3 and think to themselves, hmm maybe there might be a tug of war or a ship battle custom game. Why weren't they included in categories? Why aren't there categories!? Porn websites have better categorization than Starcraft 2 custom games. Why can't I click, tug of war, and look at a list of tug of war games? Or click Dota and look at a list of Dota games? Instead the only thing I can do is filter with 5 settings. That's great, the rest of the games on B.net are just custom. Why is there even a "faster" filter??? Can't they get into poeple's heads and TELL them that Starcraft IS this fast. There is no slow, normal, fast setting. THIS IS STARCRAFT. They on the bloody earth did they keep this arcane feature from 12 years ago? Why is the custom game browser one of the simplest, mundane and useless features ever to graze the earth? On the other hand, Why can't I see people's ping!??! Another stupid dumbass blunder. Blizzard is the Apple of gaming, except Blizzard actually make shitty games but the mass fanboys can't really see it through their thick glasses. They lather on EXTREMELY large budgets to make up for their losses in talent to produce an extremely well polished mediocre game. If not for the asians playing Multiplayer keeping Starcraft 2 alive, it would've been tossed away like no other.
Then don't play it.
|
The new patch really botched the custom hotkeys too. I just wanna go back to my old hotkey changer, cause it was so much more useful.
Examples:
If you try binding anything Zerg/Terran to "W," the game unbinds warpgates for Protoss, and says there's a conflict. WTF? The only time this has any effect is in team games where a player drops and you control their units, or when you NP a probe as Zerg and start building Protoss stuff. As in, almost never. The "toggle conflicts" button doesn't work for this, as it's only designed for units that go from one mode to another, like tanks and vikings.
Also, for some weird reason, when I play Terran the tech lab is "z" and reactor is "x" even though in the hotkey changer it is listed as "x" and "c" respectively. It blew my mind when I played a game as random, rolled Terran, and then 3 minutes into the game I realize my barracks is building a reactor instead of a tech lab because the hotkeys are wrong. I lost that game, left, rechecked the hotkeys (they were displayed as I intended them) and then played a custom to check: they were STILL wrong in-game.
Then, you can't change the modifiers for control groups to anything other than alt, ctrl, and shift. You can't substitute the spacebar. For example, I wanted my spacebar to act just like ctrl because I own a Lenovo (and their retardedness doesn't allow me to remap my FN key, whole 'nother story there) but you can't change the modifier! Third party hotkey apps ALL allow this functionality. In fact, you can make a modifier out of ANY key. I don't know why Blizzard is sucking so hard at this when they tested 1.2 for what, 2 months? Not to mention, this game has been anticipated for so many years now. Age of Empires 2 had better hotkey customization than this crap, and it came out around the same time Broodwar did. Hell, you could customize your mouse scroll to a hotkey in Age2. You had hotkeys in Age2 that would find specific buildings, like barracks or stables, therefore eliminating some of the need to bind tech buildings to control groups.
This is just developer fail at its finest.
|
On January 15 2011 11:29 thehitman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 10:15 wankey wrote:On January 15 2011 09:44 razboi wrote:
It might not be perfect but it shows us that they are trying. I kinda like BNet the way it is. Can it be improved more, yes, I think so. But so far, i'm a satisfied customer. Are you kidding me? It might not be perfect but it shows us that they are trying. Are you KIDDING ME? Yes, for a startup company, or maybe an amateur game design company or hell, maybe even Valve in their early days of Steam, but BLIZZARD. Oh the almighty BLIZZARD, the same people we gave 7 years to make a sequel game. Who rake in more money than EA and Activision COMBINED. What on earth were they thinking? Who designed this custom game fail? Fire Greg Cannessa please, fire him now. Do you realize how much you're all been gipped? I can make you a masters league in 5 minutes. Write a PHP code to filter all to 10% of players, design a new icon, and voila, a completely new feature called masters league is upon us! All hail masters league! None of the features they've come up with are ACTUALLY useful. Where is the categorization? Where is the search in custom games? Why didn't they look at Warcraft 3 and think to themselves, hmm maybe there might be a tug of war or a ship battle custom game. Why weren't they included in categories? Why aren't there categories!? Porn websites have better categorization than Starcraft 2 custom games. Why can't I click, tug of war, and look at a list of tug of war games? Or click Dota and look at a list of Dota games? Instead the only thing I can do is filter with 5 settings. That's great, the rest of the games on B.net are just custom. Why is there even a "faster" filter??? Can't they get into poeple's heads and TELL them that Starcraft IS this fast. There is no slow, normal, fast setting. THIS IS STARCRAFT. They on the bloody earth did they keep this arcane feature from 12 years ago? Why is the custom game browser one of the simplest, mundane and useless features ever to graze the earth? On the other hand, Why can't I see people's ping!??! Another stupid dumbass blunder. Blizzard is the Apple of gaming, except Blizzard actually make shitty games but the mass fanboys can't really see it through their thick glasses. They lather on EXTREMELY large budgets to make up for their losses in talent to produce an extremely well polished mediocre game. If not for the asians playing Multiplayer keeping Starcraft 2 alive, it would've been tossed away like no other. I fully agree with your post and don't forget that we waited 7 months for the simplest of things - chat channels. I could also probably make chat channels in C++ in like 1 hour. Do the menu look, link up the buttons and save the text, as simple as that.Don't forget that we also didn't get LAN so going to a LAN party you have to play on the internet, want to play with ur friends in a PC cafee sitting right next to you, no luck you need to connect to the internet. Also don't forget Blizzard removed cross-region play so some poor souls buy 3-4 copies of the game. Also don't forget that Blizzard needed 7 months to come up with simple kystomizable keys. Also don't forget that after 7 years of development and additional 7 months of waiting custom games still sucks. 10 years into the future and WC3 bnet is better than SC2 bnet, heck SC1 bnet is better than SC2 bnet. Also don't forget about the inability to lock a custom game and the stupid long countdown. I'd say Blizzard needed to fire Craig 7 months ago when he failed to deliver.
Oh hi R2CH, maybe you could have developed SC2 within a week too.
|
The way Blizzard has acted towards their customers since the release of SC2 and the new WoW expansion, it seems there is a new sort of organizational attitude to just never admit fault for anything. Even when it is painfully obvious, they won't admit that maybe they have designed something so poorly as to be unacceptable by today's standards.
They just don't seem to care in the least. Maybe it's a result of the years of crying and whining from the WoW forums, or some general shift in the way they treat their customers following the reaction of the Real ID fiasco but I feel like you will never hear "I am sorry, we were wrong" from Blizzard. If they can't even admit the significant flaws in the design of their system the chances of them actually fixing anything is really low.
I mean just look at the feedback we gave in beta. The community made it pretty clear that we wanted chat channels. They didn't just resist, they went as far as to essentially say "we know what you want better than you do". Now we've got these incredibly basic channels that make me think - like so many other aspects of bnet 2.0 - that they did not actually use them themselves at any point. I mean you can't even scroll up when others are typing. That's such an obvious hindrance if you used chat for more than 10 seconds.
I grew up with BW and War 2 and Diablo, like every other kid who did the same i admired Blizzard. These days I just think they don't really care about their customers as long as their games sell. I'm not gonna be butthurt about it and tear up my Jim Raynor notepad in a fit of tears, but I'll probably think twice about buying anymore of their products
|
The very fact that the SC2 menus feature a 3d background and require your graphics card to work overtime is just ridiculous. People don't care how flashy their menus are as long as they are logical and simple to use.
|
On January 15 2011 11:57 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 11:56 xaeiu wrote:
i'm really curious what happened to the "e-sports" part... Master's league. All the complaining that you can't compare rank across divisions..now you can.
So 7months after Bnet 2.0 came out, the first "e-sports" patch, we finally get our actually promised part of the "e-sports"?
Also trying to get a custom game is the most horrendous thing I've ever tried to do. I'd rather have the bugged out version of BW where if you left a game too fast you couldn't see any game in the list for like 5min. It would still be faster joining a game than the failure we have now.
Goals for Blizzard to fix:
No auto-start. (at least ability to leave during count-down/start)
No auto-countdown.
Ability to boot/kick whoever.
Able to see ping.
Should be search box to search for games easily.
Both types of popularity systems should be removed. (public will decide what game should be shown by actually playing it)
Expedite the loading of joining games in the list and starting the actual game.
Remove the constant DC people have. (truthfully say I haven't joined a single game yet where someone wasn't DC'd within 1min)
Add ability to sort by category, name, and possibly rating based on votes by players? (remove ability for creators to name their category for their custom game w/e they want, makes it impossible to actually find it in its actual category, give them a list of game modes basically)
|
I think the complaint is not so much with the fact that stuff is screwed up. It's the fact that this is a multimillion dollar international that cannot fix (or doesn't want to fix) the simplest of things in a huge timespan.
Yes, I know about corporate overhead and how that slows things down.
Yes, I know about the dangers of blindly following user requests.
No, neither of that excuses the fact that it took aforementioned company FIVE MONTHS since launch to implement one of the most requested and basic features out there. These are features that any single competent programmer could fix up within a week, maximum. Bugtested and everything.
Many simple features are still missing.
The situation at hand: Blizzard claims it wants SC2 to be a legitimate e-sport, yet it's doing everything in it's power to keep it from becoming one. Lack of LAN, lack of chat channels until five months past launch, lack of cross-realm play, bad custom games, no clan/team features, you name it. Interface/functionalitywise, there is no difference between the "e-sports game" Starcraft 2 and goddamn Bejeweled.
If this were some indie developer struggling to meet deadlines and find enough staff and funding to complete their project, I would be sympathetic. With Blizzard, however...
TL;DR: Blizzard is not "trying". If they were trying, all this stuff would have been fixed at the first, second patch at the very latest. It is literally no effort at all. Which leaves two options:
1) Design team/programming staff is incompetent.
2) Misguided "we know better" attitude.
Neither is particularly appealing.
|
How about a search function for custom games ? :&
|
On January 15 2011 11:29 thehitman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 10:15 wankey wrote:On January 15 2011 09:44 razboi wrote:
It might not be perfect but it shows us that they are trying. I kinda like BNet the way it is. Can it be improved more, yes, I think so. But so far, i'm a satisfied customer. Are you kidding me? It might not be perfect but it shows us that they are trying. Are you KIDDING ME? Yes, for a startup company, or maybe an amateur game design company or hell, maybe even Valve in their early days of Steam, but BLIZZARD. Oh the almighty BLIZZARD, the same people we gave 7 years to make a sequel game. Who rake in more money than EA and Activision COMBINED. What on earth were they thinking? Who designed this custom game fail? Fire Greg Cannessa please, fire him now. Do you realize how much you're all been gipped? I can make you a masters league in 5 minutes. Write a PHP code to filter all to 10% of players, design a new icon, and voila, a completely new feature called masters league is upon us! All hail masters league! None of the features they've come up with are ACTUALLY useful. Where is the categorization? Where is the search in custom games? Why didn't they look at Warcraft 3 and think to themselves, hmm maybe there might be a tug of war or a ship battle custom game. Why weren't they included in categories? Why aren't there categories!? Porn websites have better categorization than Starcraft 2 custom games. Why can't I click, tug of war, and look at a list of tug of war games? Or click Dota and look at a list of Dota games? Instead the only thing I can do is filter with 5 settings. That's great, the rest of the games on B.net are just custom. Why is there even a "faster" filter??? Can't they get into poeple's heads and TELL them that Starcraft IS this fast. There is no slow, normal, fast setting. THIS IS STARCRAFT. They on the bloody earth did they keep this arcane feature from 12 years ago? Why is the custom game browser one of the simplest, mundane and useless features ever to graze the earth? On the other hand, Why can't I see people's ping!??! Another stupid dumbass blunder. Blizzard is the Apple of gaming, except Blizzard actually make shitty games but the mass fanboys can't really see it through their thick glasses. They lather on EXTREMELY large budgets to make up for their losses in talent to produce an extremely well polished mediocre game. If not for the asians playing Multiplayer keeping Starcraft 2 alive, it would've been tossed away like no other. I fully agree with your post and don't forget that we waited 7 months for the simplest of things - chat channels. I could also probably make chat channels in C++ in like 1 hour. Do the menu look, link up the buttons and save the text, as simple as that. Don't forget that we also didn't get LAN so going to a LAN party you have to play on the internet, want to play with ur friends in a PC cafee sitting right next to you, no luck you need to connect to the internet. Also don't forget Blizzard removed cross-region play so some poor souls buy 3-4 copies of the game. Also don't forget that Blizzard needed 7 months to come up with simple kystomizable keys. Also don't forget that after 7 years of development and additional 7 months of waiting custom games still sucks. 10 years into the future and WC3 bnet is better than SC2 bnet, heck SC1 bnet is better than SC2 bnet. Also don't forget about the inability to lock a custom game and the stupid long countdown. I'd say Blizzard needed to fire Craig 7 months ago when he failed to deliver.
Thank you! This is exactly why despite thinking SC2 is a pretty fun game and having a good time in the beta, I still haven't bought it. bnet 0.2 is just such a setback from the original its pathetic. I had huge expectations from BNET 2.0, much more so than from SC2. Guess other people view Chat channels as some amazing improvement, instead of something 13 years old.
|
On January 15 2011 12:19 Special Endrey wrote:
How about a search function for custom games ? :&
Hell, how about just displaying a list of currently hosted and available custom game lobbies, the way EVERY GAME EVER has tackled this problem? Contrary to popular belief, the general gaming populace is not too stupid to use a server browser and has done so for 10+ years. If the Counterstrike community can do it, so can we.
In fact, why is the lobby even tied to the map in the first place? Would it be so hard to just host a game room, set a custom name and some filters and then select map and gametype from within the lobby?
The stupidity here:
"Had a fun game guys. Let's play another map."
*Proceeds to boot everyone out of the game and reinvite them after re-hosting another map*
Instead of
"Had a fun game guys. Let's play another map."
*switches map*.
|
2v2 python anybody? Oh right, good luck finding my game. Things won't change until we get another 1000+ page thread on the issue.
|
Man this thread is full of complaints.
If its that bad why are you people even playing it? Youre playing Blizzards game, they gave chat channels, nerfed terran into the ground, buffed everything else, gave you a damn smart map editor if thats your thing. They keep bending to the peoples will. Sorry that everything isnt up to par for some of you with extremely high expectations. However the game works, its playable and a fuck ton better than anything EA can throw out there.
If this game is that bad then go play another RTS
|
On January 15 2011 12:29 MOARpylons wrote:
Man this thread is full of complaints.
If its that bad why are you people even playing it? Youre playing Blizzards game, they gave chat channels, nerfed terran into the ground, buffed everything else, gave you a damn smart map editor if thats your thing. They keep bending to the peoples will. Sorry that everything isnt up to par for some of you with extremely high expectations. However the game works, its playable and a fuck ton better than anything EA can throw out there.
If this game is that bad then go play another RTS
I really wish people would stop throwing this around as a way to legitimize how shitty and unresponsive blizzard has been. Its not.
When the general consensus is that wc3 has better online multiplayer features and support than sc2, there is a problem, and no "play another game" is not the answer.
And these "extremely high expectations" that you speak of were all satisified in a game that already exists, that blizzard made.
|
On January 15 2011 12:39 jeparie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 12:29 MOARpylons wrote:
Man this thread is full of complaints.
If its that bad why are you people even playing it? Youre playing Blizzards game, they gave chat channels, nerfed terran into the ground, buffed everything else, gave you a damn smart map editor if thats your thing. They keep bending to the peoples will. Sorry that everything isnt up to par for some of you with extremely high expectations. However the game works, its playable and a fuck ton better than anything EA can throw out there.
If this game is that bad then go play another RTS I really wish people would stop throwing this around as a way to legitimize how shitty and unresponsive blizzard has been. Its not. When the general consensus is that wc3 has better online multiplayer features and support than sc2, there is a problem, and no "play another game" is not the answer. And these "extremely high expectations" that you speak of were all satisified in a game that already exists, that blizzard made.
So youre telling me that WC3 is so much better, that it satisfied all your expectations. And yet you say "Play another game" isnt the answer. So what is then? What are you gonna do? Sit here and whine about it? Make your own gaming company and show blizzard up? Alot getting done there huh?
Either play the game or dont, But dont say that my argument is crap when yours isnt anything more than "Well this game came out a long time ago and is so much better, why cant sc2 be like that now?!"
|
On January 15 2011 12:53 MOARpylons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 12:39 jeparie wrote:On January 15 2011 12:29 MOARpylons wrote:
Man this thread is full of complaints.
If its that bad why are you people even playing it? Youre playing Blizzards game, they gave chat channels, nerfed terran into the ground, buffed everything else, gave you a damn smart map editor if thats your thing. They keep bending to the peoples will. Sorry that everything isnt up to par for some of you with extremely high expectations. However the game works, its playable and a fuck ton better than anything EA can throw out there.
If this game is that bad then go play another RTS I really wish people would stop throwing this around as a way to legitimize how shitty and unresponsive blizzard has been. Its not. When the general consensus is that wc3 has better online multiplayer features and support than sc2, there is a problem, and no "play another game" is not the answer. And these "extremely high expectations" that you speak of were all satisified in a game that already exists, that blizzard made. So youre telling me that WC3 is so much better, that it satisfied all your expectations. And yet you say "Play another game" isnt the answer. So what is then? What are you gonna do? Sit here and whine about it? Make your own gaming company and show blizzard up? Alot getting done there huh? Either play the game or dont, But dont say that my argument is crap when yours isnt anything more than "Well this game came out a long time ago and is so much better, why cant sc2 be like that now?!"
We are talking about bnet, not the game. You see a lot of people had the very modest expectation that Starcraft 2's bnet (hailed bnet 2.0) would be substantially better than Warcraft 3s (the latest iteration of bnet 1.0) when in actual fact it is quite significantly worse than its predecessor's multiplayer client in many ways, except perhaps facebook integration.
it seems you are having issue separating "the game" from "bnet". I'm sorry to say your argument kind of is crap
|
On January 15 2011 12:04 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 09:43 MavercK wrote:
because they hired the guy who designed xbox live to design battle.net 2.0
nothing can be done.
unless they fire him and scrap the entire interface. There's a problem with this logic: X-Box Live doesn't suck!I know it's the cool PC-gamer thing to do, dissing on consoles and all for doing anything at all, regardless of whether it's good or not. But X-Box Live is a very good system for finding players to play with, communicating with them, etc. If anything, the problem with B.Net 2.0 is that it isn't more like X-Box Live. Furthermore, one person doesn't decide how everything is implemented. The person "who designed xbox live" did not in fact design X-Box Live by himself. He was part of the X-Box Live team, just as he's now part of the Battle.Net 2.0 team. But don't let actual facts get in the way of your blind scapegoating. Please, hang him in effigy and so forth.
I don´t want to get into the whole "guy who designed xbox live" discussion, but it is quite obvious that applications on consoles and applications on a computer have radically different requirements. Mainly, the input devices. Consoles usually have some kind of gamepad, while a computer has a mouse + keyboard. These make different things more useful. For example, if you can not type in words easily, there is no point in having a search function, and something like "show more" bound to a convenient Gamepad Key is much more useful. However, on a PC, you have a keyboard, and a mouse which makes it quite easy to scroll a large list of things, and search for something specific. This does not make either of these systems necessarily worse or better, a console system works just fine on consoles. But it does not work as good as a PC system on a PC.
I am not really involved into console gaming, so i have no comparison, but the whole "show more" business just seems to be incredibly unfunctional on a PC, when compared to, for example, a long list which you can scroll by using a sidebar, and a search function. This makes the system feel console-esque, or, actually, like a cheap port from a console. Stuff on a PC should use the superior input devices a PC has.
X-Box live might be really good at what it does, which is connecting people playing X-Box. I have no idea, i don´t have an x-box. However, i am quite sure that it would not work nearly as good when connecting PC, simply because PC-Gaming is inheretely different from Console gaming.
It is also not quite that far of a leap if someone important from the x-box live team is also important in the bnet 2.0 team, and the bnet 2.0 feels console-esque, to see a connection. Again, i don´t really know who that guy is, or what he does. But it might be a good idea to design a system which will be used on a PC to be used on a PC. And PC-gamers are used to some luxuries which Console gamers don´t get, because they have to use a gamepad instead of mouse + keyboard.
|
On January 15 2011 12:53 MOARpylons wrote:
Either play the game or dont, But dont say that my argument is crap when yours isnt anything more than "Well this game came out a long time ago and is so much better, why cant sc2 be like that now?!"
I don't think you understand what an argument is.
There is absolutely no reason for Blizzard to fuck up battlenet for sc2 so much when they got it so right for wc3, and their refusal to acknowledge this is even worse.
|
On January 15 2011 13:02 jeparie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 12:53 MOARpylons wrote:
Either play the game or dont, But dont say that my argument is crap when yours isnt anything more than "Well this game came out a long time ago and is so much better, why cant sc2 be like that now?!" I don't think you understand what an argument is. There is absolutely no reason for Blizzard to fuck up battlenet for sc2 so much when they got it so right for wc3, and their refusal to acknowledge this is even worse.
So why do you think they changed it? Just so they can say "You know all those guys who are gonna play SC2 when it comes out? yeah fuck those guys"? There must have been some reason behind it dont you think?
|
On January 15 2011 12:29 MOARpylons wrote:
Man this thread is full of complaints.
If its that bad why are you people even playing it? Youre playing Blizzards game, they gave chat channels, nerfed terran into the ground, buffed everything else, gave you a damn smart map editor if thats your thing. They keep bending to the peoples will. Sorry that everything isnt up to par for some of you with extremely high expectations. However the game works, its playable and a fuck ton better than anything EA can throw out there.
If this game is that bad then go play another RTS
I never understood why apologists appear out of fucking nowhere. Do you work for Blizzard by any chance?
WE BOUGHT THE GAME, WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
