EPTState of BattleNET 0.2 after 1.2 Patch (0.1.2 :d) - Page 11
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xzidez
Sweden147 Posts
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enzym
Germany1034 Posts
On January 17 2011 23:33 Jibba wrote: They bring up consoles because the chief designer of Battle.net 0.2 is a console designer. I don't think it's a coincidence that the system looks like it should be navigated with a controller. He did what he knows, but Blizzard should've known better, especially after all the shit Infinity Ward took for dumbing down MW2's interface. They should know better. They made fucking broodwar. How could a company like that possibly be incompetent? So we shrug "incompetence" off as an impossbility. We'd all love to hear why they apparently don't know or refuse to care about it, directly from them. But Blizzard keeps administering its sedative "It will get better soon.", "It is so awesome that you don't need chat channels.", etc. Why can't we make Blizzard aware of that huge WHY that is going through our minds every time we see bnet 2.0? What do we need to do for them to acknowledge us? | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
On January 18 2011 00:25 enzym wrote: What do we need to do for them to acknowledge us? Stop buying their games. | ||
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
Same thing with the interface. Hardcore PC gamers who want a more complex, detailed interface, are a minority. Most of the gamers these days are used to the console interfaces consisting of three huge buttons, which is exactly what Blizzard tried to achieve with this new Battle.net. Too many people are jumping into conclusions and are really underestimating how smart people behind Blizzard really are. SC2, as a super-expensive development project, was quite risky. It is not the type of game your average gamer wants to play, and Blizzard, as a company, just could not commit to a hundred million dollar game project just the sake of the hardcore minority. They had to do everything possible to make the game more accessible to the casual player. What I think they are doing wrong is being overly conservative and protective about everything. The outdated network engine, for example. How many times the players got frustrated because of the lagging observers? And the observers who were running a stream with a couple of thousands of viewers were forced to leave because their internet was misbehaving temporarily. I don't see any reason whatsoever to not have improved this at all since BW. Why not make the AMM system more open? What exactly is so scary with giving people direct access to the information that they can still access via third-party services if they need to (e.g. sc2ranks)? Why not let people interface SC with their own AMM or ladder implementation, only officially and without resorting to hacks? It's quite easy to see that the official ladder is going nowhere as soon as custom maps become more popular, and people will resort to some really awkward and cumbersome custom ladder implementations. Why not make the B.Net UI API public? They did that in WoW, and it worked out really well. This way they could provide a minimal implementation of the custom maps or chat interface for those users who didn't care and then the community who actually cared would make whatever enhanced interface they thought was more appropriate as an add-on. Short version: I think the way Blizzard handled the ladder system and the B.net interface makes sense if you try to see it from their point of view, but I also think they are being very stubborn and short-sighted blocking the community from helping them with the development of better UI or ladder implementations. | ||
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Lon-ami
Spain15 Posts
On January 17 2011 23:48 osten wrote: + Show Spoiler + Is that what you think happened....? You think blizzard are "trying their hardest"? Well if you played warcraft 2, starcraft, warcraft 3, diablo or any other battle.net game you would know that they are not "trying their hardest", they have instead very deliberately taken a position where they can implement just exactly what we need and nothing else. This is so they can make more money. All these removed features, and all the added unnessecary features all have the focus of making them more cash. "Always connected" more like "Always paying customer". It's not the right way of combatting software counterfeiting, and that has not been a problem for them before either. Something has changed within blizzard. You must feel it too...? In wow now you can pay for the game, then pay for three expansions, then pay to transfer a character, pay to make him look differently, pay to change race, pay to change sex, pay to be able to check auctions on your phone........ I don't remember these things from diablo. And no, it's not called progress. Greed. What if we could chose gateway like we always have been able to before? What if the system was open and people could make clients for chatting outside of the game on your phone? What if custom games could be played, I for one had a lot of fun with that in wc3, now it's unplayable. What if we could create and moderate clans? What if we could view advanced statistics about almost every aspect of our games online? What if we could play in tournaments? What if we could see at which place in the world we are? Well... then we'd have all the things wc3 had. I think it's insane that when they remove features some of you guys say wooow they are trying so hard oh man it is so hard for blizzard. Nope., they are greedy. Ok rant over. On January 17 2011 23:55 mrdx wrote: Complete agree with you. I'm working in UI development and I have to say that Battle.net 2 is a rare case of complete usability failure, considering the size of the project and the expertise that dev team of such a giant game dev (supposedly) has. What is surprising is that it doesn't take an usability expert to point out that Battle.net sucks. An average user/gamer can easily point out at least a few shortcomings of the interface after spending some hours on it. It boggles my mind how the guys at Blizzard didn't seem to realize so. Or maybe there's some internal politics within Activasion Blizzard that we don't know (like bureaucracy or power influence of some sort)... I don't know, can't understand it really. That totally deserved to be quoted for truth. Now, to my personal rant: It's not only "UI design", it's everything with "design" on it, from story to art. I'll give you a clear example: story. Why story? because anyone is able to write its won story. It's terribad. Not only SC2, look at WoW. They've gone worse and worse, I'm a fan of Warcraft lore, and I cry with WoW. Some stuff is nice, but everything else reeks 2 things: clichés and lack of care, clichés when you see everything's a copy or a ripoff from other famous stuff, and lack of care when you see storylines contradict themselves again and again. And no, don't tell me they try their best, I'm in a story forum and any goddamn forum newbie is able to write a better story, even me, who hadn't ever played WoW (boring gameplay, imo). Same for the UI. Anyone here would be able to make a better design, and we don't see them just because we don't have so many people that programs at high levels. The main problem here is that videogames aren't for geeks anymore, now everyone, from your grandma to that brainless douchebag that plays Farmville like a drug addict is a potential customer. Now check numbers. Numbers of geek people, and numbers of crappy people. We geeks are a minority. For god's sake, I heard people saying CoD:MW2 was the best game ever, what the fuck man? it's the worst shit I've ever seen. A campaign of 4 hours, and a ripped off multiplayer, with everything in control of the company, when the title before allowed you to make servers for free and your own maps, which now you have to buy in packs. Okay, you wanna make cash from those douchebags. No problem. But do it respecting us. Come on, is that hard to program a chat for release? to program clans? don't kid me, I'm a programmer, and I know that when your blue posts say "we're working hard on it" you're just lying and laughing your ass at me. The main problem at Blizzard, right now, is that they don't care about us. Want proof? we had one of their big guys say "you really want chats?" when half the official forums were whining for them. To end with this rant (starts to have no sense, fury blurs me xD) the worst thing of Battle.net 0.2 is, no doubt, custom maps. They have completelly killed them, yes, they have. They don't put a search bar on join game, why? because it's hard to program and we need to wait for a patch? because too many buttons make dumbtards get lost? no, because they don't want people to search, that's all. It's like when they forced facebook on us during beta, and when they tried to make everyone's real name appear at the forums. There's people saying we should stand in their shoes. I do that, and I find myself acting like a stupid kid without brain, forcing sh1t I never wanted over everyone, when they're realizing I'm forcing it over them and they're whining for me to stop forcing it. This levels of protectionism and lack of care and bullshit forcing will kill the game. BW and W3 lived because they were fun to play. Is SC2 fun to play? BW and W3 lived because of custom maps, too. Is SC2 friendly to mapmakers? God, I'm full of rage and hate (sorry for the wall of whine, anyway  ). | ||
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ciortas1
Lithuania3 Posts
On January 18 2011 02:05 Lon-ami wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On January 17 2011 23:48 osten wrote: + Show Spoiler + Is that what you think happened....? You think blizzard are "trying their hardest"? Well if you played warcraft 2, starcraft, warcraft 3, diablo or any other battle.net game you would know that they are not "trying their hardest", they have instead very deliberately taken a position where they can implement just exactly what we need and nothing else. This is so they can make more money. All these removed features, and all the added unnessecary features all have the focus of making them more cash. "Always connected" more like "Always paying customer". It's not the right way of combatting software counterfeiting, and that has not been a problem for them before either. Something has changed within blizzard. You must feel it too...? In wow now you can pay for the game, then pay for three expansions, then pay to transfer a character, pay to make him look differently, pay to change race, pay to change sex, pay to be able to check auctions on your phone........ I don't remember these things from diablo. And no, it's not called progress. Greed. What if we could chose gateway like we always have been able to before? What if the system was open and people could make clients for chatting outside of the game on your phone? What if custom games could be played, I for one had a lot of fun with that in wc3, now it's unplayable. What if we could create and moderate clans? What if we could view advanced statistics about almost every aspect of our games online? What if we could play in tournaments? What if we could see at which place in the world we are? Well... then we'd have all the things wc3 had. I think it's insane that when they remove features some of you guys say wooow they are trying so hard oh man it is so hard for blizzard. Nope., they are greedy. Ok rant over. On January 17 2011 23:55 mrdx wrote: Complete agree with you. I'm working in UI development and I have to say that Battle.net 2 is a rare case of complete usability failure, considering the size of the project and the expertise that dev team of such a giant game dev (supposedly) has. What is surprising is that it doesn't take an usability expert to point out that Battle.net sucks. An average user/gamer can easily point out at least a few shortcomings of the interface after spending some hours on it. It boggles my mind how the guys at Blizzard didn't seem to realize so. Or maybe there's some internal politics within Activasion Blizzard that we don't know (like bureaucracy or power influence of some sort)... I don't know, can't understand it really. That totally deserved to be quoted for truth. Now, to my personal rant: It's not only "UI design", it's everything with "design" on it, from story to art. I'll give you a clear example: story. Why story? because anyone is able to write its won story. It's terribad. Not only SC2, look at WoW. They've gone worse and worse, I'm a fan of Warcraft lore, and I cry with WoW. Some stuff is nice, but everything else reeks 2 things: clichés and lack of care, clichés when you see everything's a copy or a ripoff from other famous stuff, and lack of care when you see storylines contradict themselves again and again. And no, don't tell me they try their best, I'm in a story forum and any goddamn forum newbie is able to write a better story, even me, who hadn't ever played WoW (boring gameplay, imo). Same for the UI. Anyone here would be able to make a better design, and we don't see them just because we don't have so many people that programs at high levels. The main problem here is that videogames aren't for geeks anymore, now everyone, from your grandma to that brainless douchebag that plays Farmville like a drug addict is a potential customer. Now check numbers. Numbers of geek people, and numbers of crappy people. We geeks are a minority. For god's sake, I heard people saying CoD:MW2 was the best game ever, what the fuck man? it's the worst shit I've ever seen. A campaign of 4 hours, and a ripped off multiplayer, with everything in control of the company, when the title before allowed you to make servers for free and your own maps, which now you have to buy in packs. Okay, you wanna make cash from those douchebags. No problem. But do it respecting us. Come on, is that hard to program a chat for release? to program clans? don't kid me, I'm a programmer, and I know that when your blue posts say "we're working hard on it" you're just lying and laughing your ass at me. The main problem at Blizzard, right now, is that they don't care about us. Want proof? we had one of their big guys say "you really want chats?" when half the official forums were whining for them. To end with this rant (starts to have no sense, fury blurs me xD) the worst thing of Battle.net 0.2 is, no doubt, custom maps. They have completelly killed them, yes, they have. They don't put a search bar on join game, why? because it's hard to program and we need to wait for a patch? because too many buttons make dumbtards get lost? no, because they don't want people to search, that's all. It's like when they forced facebook on us during beta, and when they tried to make everyone's real name appear at the forums. There's people saying we should stand in their shoes. I do that, and I find myself acting like a stupid kid without brain, forcing sh1t I never wanted over everyone, when they're realizing I'm forcing it over them and they're whining for me to stop forcing it. This levels of protectionism and lack of care and bullshit forcing will kill the game. BW and W3 lived because they were fun to play. Is SC2 fun to play? BW and W3 lived because of custom maps, too. Is SC2 friendly to mapmakers? God, I'm full of rage and hate (sorry for the wall of whine, anyway ).Quoted for absolute truth, and this is what, the fourth consecutive one or something? Anyways, there's not really much left to be said other than Blizzard really cares just that much more about appealing to the lowest common denominator than the fans that made them great and can make a much better judgement on the quality of their game. Speaking of which, when it comes to developing games or other entertainment media, it's a law of logic, nature and whatever else - focusing on the lowest common denominator as your target demographic hurts everyone but the lowest common denominator. With Starcraft 2, it's been proven. Nobody in their right minds who has the knowledge of at least other Blizzard games would consider Battle.net 0.2 an even passable online system. As for the This levels of protectionism and lack of care and bullshit forcing will kill the game. part, while the premise is right, the conclusion isn't, as much as I (or anyone else here) would want it to be. Face it. There are simply too many stupid people - or folks who simply don't know better - that will enjoy this shitty system no matter how many shortcomings it has. And by enjoying it and using it, they're encouraging this sort of business practice to continue. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6209 Posts
On custom games the popularity system is indeed a bit weird but on the other hand they helped custom games since everyone can host which is a big improvement on wc3 where you had to open ports etc. Which a lot of people couldn't be assed to do ( me ) or didn't know how to. And for blizzard ignoring customers, they don't Blizzard cares a lot about their customers and they show it in more than one way. For one when was the last time the fees for WoW raised? exactly never does that sound like a company who doesn't care about their customers? On top of that there are things you can buy for money like a server transfer or name change but neither of these things have any influence on the gameplay while a lot of companies like Activision ( I know they merged ) charge money for extra maps at CoD. I think people are overreacting to this all I think, I mean sure it isn't perfect but it aint as bad as some people are implying. | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
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BilltownRunner
United States229 Posts
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Nizaris
Belgium2230 Posts
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Stewox.
32 Posts
On January 17 2011 18:30 Bellygareth wrote: All the so called programmaters in this thread obviously never have worked in a AAA game. It takes time to deliver fully functionning features guys. Posts like "it's bad lol" are useless, and posts saying "I can do that in 1 h" are even more useless. If you wan't to criticise you should probably try to say things like "I'd like this feature added, or this could be changed as such". You got a point , but you know , the whole terminology is wrong , how can they add some new features like easily , if they can't even keep working what they have , you have to have expeirence with games to realize that bnet is just a smiple browser menu , an offline browser which is totally not a browser but a few menus sticked together , it's probably broken code from the beginnning , that'y why all the bugs all the time , the methodology is console-like , the stupid show more button. SHOW MORE button may be there because they want to minimize lag , when you enter it would refresh the whole list for some time , what does this have the difference if starting game has taken an astronomic 30 seconds , and even now 10 seconds (1.2) , so the list would refresh before those 10 seconds pass , definitely , you really have to have a crap connection , or bnet servers that can't cope with your client request. SHOW Moore button makes a BIAS and the early modders are hurt , if they want numbers they need to get into the top , nobody will press show more button 30 times to get into the bottom, (new images for this in the main thread post) It's a whole lot than this , a whole lot , i can't ever type as fast to explain and think about it , i lost my fingers on this today , on official forums , i created this thread about an email i sent to blizzard customer support , and i received an interesting response , one guy in the forum goes all rage at me because he didn't saw that the original messege is the first one that appears in the top of the post , yes , blizzard wanted my info why ? , they didn't bugged me before on this and my accunt was the same for almost a year now. SO this talk go in other places as well , i just made it what i had in mind: I wanted to share it here too since i covered some more wider and quite important ideas and aspects. I won't say anything more , i have my points and are completely civil and my rights , i just mentioned it and that's it , i surely don't want to risk any measures , because , as you can see , battlenet 2.0 fails again and they now have the actual image going around which is severely tarnishing their image , good , now should they finally fire that console noob Greg canessa and start working on a better interface? This is completely truthful information and if they use force against me , it just proves the facts even more. I won't nag them on email anymore , they can see the images i hope , i hope the whole company does. (links in the email). I have no anything against blizzard but this is my own self now , im going to protect my self with my rights no matter how good or cool they are , the email they posted back to me, requesting information , was only an answer filler, and it was a perfect way to mark people who are in their wanted list , propbably with hacks , yes , they know who is experienced with the game is also a potential hacker , okay fine , nobody would hack so much if bnet would be better , so it's not my fault , im not a hacker , i didn't do anything , all i did was analyzing the game , the pride how they hyped , oh "1.2 will be so big and cool" and now what we see , we see even more bugged custom game system , popularity system flawed because of the green bar bug [the gif picture in teamliquid thread linked], they obviously want to shut me up , because i have the knowledge to spread negative words about the whole game , yes i do , but im not evil , i won't do that for no reason. I didn't do anything yet , it was just a thread on teamliquid that jumped 10 pages quickly and also administrators and mods replied with similar opinions that battlenet is still in the same pit as with beta almost one year ago. As you can see my preserved "visions from the past" in the screenshots i taken in EU beta forums , the community asked same questions we're asking ourself today , it wasn't much of a difference , the same ramblings are still going around now what beta testers already asked before. Ofcourse they want to shut me up , i realized and researched about the memory leak , they probably don't have any time to fix it anytime soon , so they just ignore it , i posted emails , threads , error reporter , no sign of them realizing , the memory leak is not very huge but it is affecting , ALT-TAB issue so it takes longer to return into the game longer you run the application under singleplayer , the best way to go around it , before you want to play MP , never play SP , or just restart the application so it clears the memory out , the SC2 application is unable to clear SP usless data out of memory before starting MP , (+ cheap flash bnet code , like a mobile browser meh) this makes the game behave in MP the same as it does in SP , you'll transfer all your "application time" to MP , which could lead up to 3 minutes of waiting to return into the game ( 10-sec to 3 min black screen when maximizing, mouse is visible) , in the end of all this , the game's default return time is above normal of any other game i ever played. SP: takes 10-15 seconds > longer you play the (above 3 hrs) it can take 3 minutes to return from alt tab. MP: Takes 10 seconds , doesn't increase by time apparently, memory leak is not present in MP. Main Menu: Takes 3-5 seconds normally , fresh start. This is alt-tab-IN ; whereas alt tab OUT(of the game) , is always instant. (thank god for something) Furthermore , the Alt-TAB issue is also , (did i mentioned this already , man this is a wall of text im fixing here and there and i hope i don't lose my self) ... makes false disconnect screens , when a user goes into windows ,SC2 engine becomes unstable and stalls and laggs the game , it also makes in most cases, the disconnect window , it doesn't matter the PC performance , doesn't matter on anything at all , it's a huge bug , the users usually are out one minute and they return , but it takes 10-15 seconds normally for MP to get into the game , usually people are back in 90 seconds or 2 minutes , but what they find is a "You have been dropped" , this might fix some of those huge Dropped complaints but those casuals on the official forums don't explain what were they doing , some might even be noobs with crap settings /network card / routers / ISP , stupid wireless ... whatever. Blizzard should really read and listen what people say .. , oh oh wait ... , it's not my fault you sold your company to vivendi in the first place so ... if activision is pressuring blizzard , then , well , sorry , but this is the same thingas IW clusterfick. (whoh i hope not) continuing .. in the teamliquid thread is clearly stated , (i stated that !) if blizzard would admit they inability to fix engine bugs fast , if blizzard admitted their BNET Lead Project manager is inexperienced with PC games and anything that's PC , if blizzard admitted they're whatever reason for not having bugs forums in EU , if blizzard admitted they have a lack of staff in the community managers department and posters, if blizzard admitted that there is a serious defect in the [this was missing previsouly , fixed] battlnet architecture how it interacts with the game , or whatever reason for the inability to make proper code to run good to survive more than one patch. The community would treat the company more fairl and also loyal , since they offered transparency via admitting and thus having a good enough reason and explanation , but the reasons they have now are slim to none , it's just ramblings about one guy who happens to be the only console guy in the whole company , what if , blizzard CEO lost the control over who is employed on different areas , what if this is the problem , and KOTICK or whoever is again messing around. That's unknown , but it surely doesn't work and i think blizzard wouldn't let this happen , i think this was forced somehow , hopes that this is not the blizzard we always had. If blizzard just said that , ofcourse not , causal people must be blindfolded to buy our products and our freaking over the top paid services for a programmer to make a cheap click to transfer a profile , oh yeah , that costs 15 $. In the end , i still think Activision is pressuring blizzard , what else should i think of , this makes sense , and they can't offer response or have the interaction with customers they had before. On the teamliquid thread , you can also see that even if blizzard or activision want's to destroy history , i kept it preserved , you can see in a couple of shots , how Xordiah was behaving in EU BETA forums ~march-june 2010. They suppresed anything opposing them , without the EU revolt of the beta attendees , we probably wouldn't have chat channels today(in whatever form(version) they are is another question.) Lucky for blizzard, i won't hype this up anywhere else (or for my own good) , im not evil , but we can all agree how much chances PC community gives blizzard , how much things we look by , how much things we ignore just to play the game , if blizzard wouldn't have the great games to justify , then it would be already dead. Blizzard passes the tests of so many PC eyes , that you can't image here , you first guys in this community , but this is getting severe and this fails stack up , the game cannot longer justify the minuses , the game is great no doubt about it , i would wite an essay to thank the devs and everything yeah but im not that of a "praise whore" im not a fanboy who sees only good and overpraises stuff , the things that are good aren't important these kind of speeches , cirtical assesment is always targeting the bad and this is giving you the information how to IMPROVE the bad , the things that are already good don't need to be mentioned of course. I just want to set clear facts that blizzard should act now , and do something about bettlnet , the "focal point" is approaching fast , after the "focal point" everything will change around , the game's positive things would be irrevalant , the service will be so bugged that the greateness of the core game will no longer justify the waste and annoyances spend on the service , no matter how good the game is , yeah , this is clear and square , no matter how great the campain or the animations or the easter eggs are , if all other things that keep the game running aren't clear than the good things have no place no credit no revalancy. The engine is bugged , the game is a resource hog , the ALT TAB issue is killing online guys with "DROPPED" (explained earlier) , the custom game system is flawed , the whole battlenet is not 2.0 , it's 0.2. The game is like a PC , if some components don't work it doesn't matter how good all other's are , YOU HAVE THE BOTTLNECK , the bnet is bottlnecking the other things in SC2 , it doesn't MATTER how good everything else is if the suckness of the bad component is so bad it prevails and effecively causes other to become USELESS. I've had it enough with the alt tab isssue , my patience has gone, i don't have 100 years in my life to devote 1/3 of that for the stupid 3 minute black screen in alt tab , give me a break. They're trying. They're trying , oh yeah they probably are , but if they admitted to the PC community they are trying but they missed and failed and they're still trying , if they said that , community would treat them differently , you don't want to make speculation material for your customers , they'll do this what im doing now , posting threads like this , making votes , promoting negative image , well , it's not my fault , it's my duty to do , that's who i am , im a loyal fan , im not a sheep , im in gaming for over 10 years , and i know the industry , and i don't give a damn about companies and their profits and their interests , i want good games and that's what im here for in this forum or ... well , im one of rare who even posts here , all the hardcores never post on official forums where all different age and inteligence groups collide , and that's entertainment we all seek in free time , am the user of this entertainment and i want it to be good , and what is the most what makes me go rage is that , the game's freaking good , they just miss the point in stupid places , in EASIEST PLACES , bnet , HOW HARD IS TO MAKE A FREAKING INTERFACE , i know that because im inside the industry , i know it's not hard to make a search function , i know many things about that , that's the main drive for these kind of posts , because it has to do with stupid and cheap decisions of managing priority in the company , it's not something that is a big deal , it's NOT a big deal , it's just a simple decision they have to make , of WOW is running for 5 yeears and it's clean now , why the flying sakes the developers and forum posters are devoted to the fucking WOW , if you have CRITICAL STATUS IN STARCRAFT 2 , that's right , we got them , their WOW expansion is more important than SC2 with ciritical times and people raging and everythhing , that's right folks , and we would be a lot more patient and maybe even looked them throught the fingers (cut them slack , whatever the phrase) IF BLIZZARD WOULD ADMIT THEIR DECISIONS WERE WRONG AND THEY DID TRANSFER PEOPLE TO CATACLYSM INSTEAD OF FIXING SC2 BNET 2.0. ADMIT IT BLIZZARD FOR THE PEOPLE TO SEE TRUTH - YES IT DOESN'T WORK GOOD ON MARKETING BUT YOU'LL AT LEAST KEEP THE FANS YOU ALREADY HAVE. Freaking gluttony of more customers. Just look Company of Heroes and Relic Entertainment , people happy , company honest , Multiplayer interface(no fancy names) for COH 10-times better than Bnet 2.0. http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/03/25/blizzard-vs-relic-entertainment-in-the-escapists-march-mayhem/ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=90261 Note: Escapist links have forbidden error , can't find results, does somebody recall ? I think i catched this years back i think i do have a loose memory but i forgot the outcome at all. According to the thread on the teamliquid forums , Relic was winning over BLizzard , just look the commnets, it is clear that activision is taking over blizzard as people suspect is more and more , go away kotick , just go away for good sakes don't ruin another developer. Can't find escapist results of the showdown , and also , indications were that Relic was ahead, yeah , im late to the party , i was actually a COD (other FPS) guy from 2005 to 2009 , and im coming back to RTS as main games now. Why blizzard just doesn't admit they're a creative company , and not a technological one , would make us a little bit more paitence. Honest admittions that companies provide my affect their marketing and hunger for more customers but it makes the already fans ... stay fans or at least less angry. You have to admit blizzard , or people will hate bnet 2.0 for good , that might spark a chain reaction of breakdowns and people will just stop caring. If that's true though , that blizzard is just fighting for control every day there , we might keep our mouth shut seems like they're doing anything they can and they can't do more because they're a public company and they can be fired if they speak or respond to consumers ... but i don't feel like this was true , it's too good to be true , it makes too much sense to be true , just get it out of your mind , just get ah ... just remember , what activision says (bobby kotick is levels above blizzard ceo, vivendi you suck) , blizzard does , Look the funny side , Vivendi owned Blizzard , Vivendi Games which was only a holding company for Blizzard , merged with Activision , but Vivendi is the majority sakeholder , 52%-54% but Vivendi , let the deal through , knowing that the deal was , that new formed ActivisionBlizzard holding company would be the parent to Vivendi Games , and thus Activision is parent to Blizzard entertainment even if Vivendi owns the majority of them and Blizzard is stated to be independent , it clearly isn't. Yes , it is right , as it seems , But the flaw is , that activision guys were taken for the ActivisionBlizzard holding company , there is no neutrals in the holding company , the biggest boss is the activision boss , and Blizzard CEO has the power of doing his way , but he's being pressured by kotick probably on stuff, like ourageous paid serivces in WOW support, stupid console fourms for noobs, whatever i can think of. It's just athought , nobody knows what's going on for sure. Blizzard Ceo also has a position in the holding company too along with blizzard subsidary , but he's not in the top , it's the kotick who is , and that guy effectively has ability to affect both subcompanies. I'll update the main thread post with some more pics to expose the other bugs , later when i take time to do it. @@ to much to quote: 1# Yeah i agree on the fact that blizzard listens silently ,but they never respond , they said on blizzcon that they have a dedicated internet research team that traces and finds posts and people on other forums and what are they talking about so we ofcourse should get heard , but you know , it's up to the boss if he takes that serious , and stupid feeding WOW while SC2 is in grave need for a mediiiiiic! 2# Yeah i also agree with others about UI and modability and oh , too much , 3# Yeah i know about MW2 crap and the stupid noobs thinking it's the best, that's a WHOLE other clustefuck , i would be writting another wall like this if id go for Infinity Ward isse ,we're all experienced here so we should know about that , ofcourse , nobody plays cod on PC anymore (EU , not even here) , i know a lot more and i do understand this whole industry , i hope i can just help , that's my point ,all i want is help preserve great communities , and hardcore commnities , noobs and casual communities never preserve them self, because there's nothing special about it, a casual game is not a work of art. I view games as a work of art and business should come second. I would have a comment on the american market , hehe , that PC didn't died in europe and it's far from that , ton of hardcore nintendo fans here too (first parties that probably pwn most PC games too) that in america (casual) gamers act like a herd , if someone says "xbox is cool " then whole country jumps on it , if someone says kinect is cool , the whole country jumps on it , people seem to buy everything and believe everything and then it just fades off and it's a circle because something else pops up - this is a whole another topic, it's the marketing and that's a really good weapon for any company , they can't scew over other's like they can in US. unfortunately , but i only speak the truth , this is about casuals , no offense against fellows  On January 17 2011 23:55 mrdx wrote: Complete agree with you. I'm working in UI development and I have to say that Battle.net 2 is a rare case of complete usability failure, considering the size of the project and the expertise that dev team of such a giant game dev (supposedly) has. What is surprising is that it doesn't take an usability expert to point out that Battle.net sucks. An average user/gamer can easily point out at least a few shortcomings of the interface after spending some hours on it. It boggles my mind how the guys at Blizzard didn't seem to realize so. Or maybe there's some internal politics within Activasion Blizzard that we don't know (like bureaucracy or power influence of some sort)... I don't know, can't understand it really. Yeah , just as we're suspecting , and this is quite funny how i written and got same thought about it before checking this thread today. SO i think this is what it's called , community common sense , i should say , we should stop arguing about "how long it takes to code that or this" a that a topic for it self but it makes sense a bit , you know , we now already know for sure they are better than this , they are able to fix memory leaks and such , it's just a proritization , and for them it reached certain level of quality so they don't need to be alert. They're having a great time with cataclysm as we speak. The nature how they do patches is werid , they already knew 1.2 will be the patch which adds mouse tracking (from blizzcon) so come on , i suspect some weird technologcial shortucts here , they did feature patches before , now i got them , they have to be using a technique like this , but when bugs and balance issues have to be fixed , they fastly issue out some patches to fix is: Now look this is a FREAKING huge thing in my mind , i can't for cry sakes explains so hard my fingers are toast but i will try , it all adds up , it all adds up , i got it yes i did: I think it's like this: they're developing the big core patches before with older builds and sources , right , okay , now , for example they already have these betas and betas and alphas with various devs , now look , this is it , the patches always changes something to be weirder , look this is like completely out of my mind , i noticed an older feel with 1.2 , it's a weird feel , like you degraded the system with some more features but it's using an older piece os something ..example , it was always a feel like this with huge patches , it's like new features , but you have history in mirror , it's like going BACK to some other patch before , and what they did normally thorughout patches , when a current bug was fixed the patrch was made with the latest build from (ofcourse) the PC running the latest stuff , i think, anyways it updated right and was working , now these big patches have this distinct feel that they've been taken from some old outdate "beta patch" build and they just glued the new patch together , i don't know if it's in performance , very small UI , menu , details stuff , but ofcourse the more visible bugs and breaks, or what but feels kind of broken , i am a modder and mapper and i have experience , so i feel something's werid is going , it's like DLC they do it before but they have timeframes when they're going to release it. It's a clusterfuck , some many teams working on it , and they go round round to wow an sc2 and you got a perfect scenatio for a sloppy job and stuff just doesn't work man, patches aren't patches really , they'll just throw and glue stuff until they're done. It feels like there is a: (example probability) Bnet Patching team (realtime patching of bnet service , doesn't require download, mainly keeps running the servers ;; and watching with satellites if a scrubwoman trips over the cables in any of the foreign blizzard's offices.) Feature Patching team (relies on it's builds and betas they make over time , uses outdated sc2 builds because it's been developing for long time, it's probably some guy's computer in the corner of the company damn) Realtime Patching team (small patches that fix bugs and don't have an outdated feel., this team has a lot of work fixing after the big patches) This system , they can't do anything we say now , the Feature Patching team is behind , they have a schedule , and they'll add our stuff later , we just have to wait. Why don't split the teams or make another one , so one would work on features that blizzard intends to add anyhow , and the other team which would release weekly hotfixes in virtually realtime (smaller stuff that's only a matter of changing a few lines of code and params ex bugfixing) Currently the Realtime team is overloaded with bugs that big patches produce , so how can they fix previous bugs and communitiy reported bugs if a new big patch brings back same and new bugs all the time , you won't believe it , this is exactly what happened in beta , new patches which were featurized , brought back problems with the stability of the engine, same old problem again , this repeated up to 3 times , until patch 13 that pretty much broken the whole game , there were ~15 patches in beta i recall afaik. You don't even know that SC2 Beta was so unstable that it caused BSODs or regular basis , when exiting application or ALT-TAB , yeah alt tab was even more bugged. EDITNOTE: There might be some mistakes with context , due to me jumping around when writting and i forgot to finish something (you can become lost in this wall) , notify if you catch some. EDIT: Found unfinished text in "if blizzard admitted" in the quote section. The ending was missing. Fixed. | ||
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Eluadyl
Turkey364 Posts
But I still agree with you. | ||
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Inspectah
Germany28 Posts
The chat channels are awesome, i saw guys like MorroW and Haypro on teamliquid EU (and they actually talked to us), this other channel has a King of the Hill Tourney going on the whole day, and ppl can find practice partners in their skill range. Overall they improved bnet so much imo. And I didnt got spammed to buy anything yet. You guys exegerrate way so much, stop QQ and be happy for what weve got. | ||
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osten
Sweden316 Posts
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Stewox.
32 Posts
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Stewox.
32 Posts
This however is a funny read , not official from blizzard , but it's only greg that talked , i should say that's far fetched he goes on to say , i don't take it as potent , he just think's he knows good and goes on to explan some stuff about oh facebook and xbox games, it's another typical example of how industry noobs take one of the popular entertainment journalist site and ramble about their long too late findings. He rambles about how it's hard to do that and do this and bla blah blak , sir , just take a look on company of heroes and bnet 1.0. He explains stuff he wasn't part of , he only worked for Xbox live , and he goes to imply that PSN and Steam and Facebook fall in the same bucket , come on. Then he goes to say how hard is to make "for instance that you won't receive a popup while you're in a tournament , it's something that required a lot of extra work and effort" - I honestly laughed at this one , it's wasnt just a silent lol. Am i being too critical or to agressive with my style of explaining? ,well i do keep it in levels but some anger you can expect because that's natural for any unsatisfied customer , it just might look too much i have this accent im not english and well , i ususally write more mean than i want or even realize, excuse me. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On January 18 2011 20:01 Inspectah wrote: I think its fine when they implenment clan support. The chat channels are awesome, i saw guys like MorroW and Haypro on teamliquid EU (and they actually talked to us), this other channel has a King of the Hill Tourney going on the whole day, and ppl can find practice partners in their skill range. Overall they improved bnet so much imo. And I didnt got spammed to buy anything yet. You guys exegerrate way so much, stop QQ and be happy for what weve got. It's pretty bold (if not overly arrogant) to dismiss valid criticism as "QQ". And many people here provide just that. Blizzard handing us flawed chat channels doesn't mean we have reason to be happy with the current state of the game. It's the first issue on a long list of neccessary improvements. Some folks may exaggerate, that's true, but the majority claiming "b.net 2.0 sucks!" happens because it's true. | ||
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WarSong
Canada126 Posts
On January 18 2011 01:37 Random() wrote:Why not make the B.Net UI API public? They did that in WoW, and it worked out really well. This way they could provide a minimal implementation of the custom maps or chat interface for those users who didn't care and then the community who actually cared would make whatever enhanced interface they thought was more appropriate as an add-on. that is an absolutely fucking fantastic idea. i LOVED modding my UI in WoW, making it as efficient and aesthetically pleasing as possible. being able to mod the sc2 UI would be killer. | ||
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Inex
Bulgaria443 Posts
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JAN0L
Poland207 Posts
@Stewox - great read i wish there were more people devoted to the community like you | ||
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