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My background
![[image loading]](http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/starcraft2_logo.jpg)
After a 4-year hiatus of not playing any video games after going to college, I yelled liked a little schoolboy when I heard that Starcraft 2 was going to be released. Most of my middle school and high school years were spent playing the original Starcraft, and I remember that almost every year there was a rumor that Starcraft 2 was just around the bend. However after nearly 10 years of waiting, I didn’t believe that Starcraft 2 was actually going to come out.
As excited as I was, I told myself that I would never play Starcraft 2 because of the potential time I would kill playing it. When I was growing up, I remember coming home from school and play video games or watch TV for nearly 5-6 hours straight. A lot of wasted time—and I regretted it in hindsight. Therefore I knew that if I started playing Starcraft 2, I would never be able to put it down.
However slowly I saw all of my friends converting into playing Starcraft 2—talking about it socially or telling me to play with them. I tried my best to resist the temptation—but it piqued my interest. I told myself, “Okay—I’m just going to get it for the single-player campaign mode, and then quit after I beat the game.” However, never spent a dime on paying for a computer game, I ended up not purchasing it for a while.
However out of nowhere, my girlfriend got me Starcraft 2 as a token of appreciation for all that I had been helping her (Yeah I know—the best girlfriend ever). Anyways, I was pretty damn excited, and booted up the game on my computer and started playing. I marveled at how much the game changed in terms of graphics and special effects, yet was pleased how true it played to the original. To say the least, I was impressed.
I told myself I was going to stick to the single-player mode, but of course all of my friends found out that I got the game and invited me to play with them. Still being a relative noob in the game (not knowing any of the units or build orders), I got owned pretty hard. After losing several times, I vowed that I wanted to get “good enough” to live up to my Korean heritage (Starcraft is our national sport).
Jumping into Starcraft, head first
After poking around the internet, I found a plethora of great websites dedicated to Starcraft 2 strategy and build orders, which I consumed. I re-learned the intricicies of each race, as well as the new units that Blizzard introduced (as well as took away) from the game.
After playing many games in the multiplayer “custom map” mode (which isn’t ranked)—I realized that it was time for me to play the ladder to see what league I was placed in. After 5 intense games (and winning all of them), I was very proud to say that I made it to the Platinum league. However as proud of myself as I was, I looked at all of my friends who were in the Diamond league, and looked at their profiles with envy. Being in the Platinum league was like getting an A- on my report card (my parents thought I was a failure), whereas being in the Diamond league was like getting an A (what was to be expected of being a Korean). I then decided I had a new goal in life: to make it to the Diamond League.
![[image loading]](http://shokzstarcraft2guide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/SCpic2.jpg)
I wanted to be like him.
I tried to restrict my Starcraft 2 playing time to less than an hour a day, as I knew that I had other “better” things to do—like read, write, exercise, or spend time with my friends or girlfriend. However I had this burning passion inside of myself to make it to the Diamond league—so I was addicted. It started to consume me. I had trouble falling asleep at night (adrenaline rushes at 10pm really mess you up), spent an inordinate amount of time reading strategies and watching replays, as well as planning new strategies in my head.
However after becoming so consumed in Starcraft 2 the thought occurred to me: Was this all worth it, or a complete waste of time?
I thought long and hard about this question. Sure the immediate (and obvious) answer is “Of course it’s a waste of time! All video games are a waste of time! They don’t help us out in any way, and are making our children dumb.” However I knew that there was more to the story, and I wanted to seek the answers that made more sense to me.
Is Starcraft good for you?
At around the same time, I picked up a book titled: “Everything Bad Is Good For You” by Steven Johnson. The premise of his book is fascinating, as Johnson argues that pop culture and video games aren’t actually detrimental to ourselves and society, but benefit us. When I first glimpsed at his thesis, I scoffed. How could he possibly make a case to defend video games and pop culture when it is common knowledge that they are “bad” for us?
Nevertheless I was intrigued, so I decided to start reading the book. I was quite surprised to see that one of the first chapters in the book had an entire section devoted to video games. He then presents a pretty convincing question to the reader: what is the difference between a kid solving a puzzle in Zelda versus solving a math equation on a standardized test? That is to say—is there any real cognitive benefit of learning how to solve math equations over solving challenging puzzles in video games?
I pondered at the question, and wondered about the cognitive benefits of playing Starcraft 2. I remember reading once on the internet that Starcraft 2 is akin to “…playing chess while having the dexterity of a pianist.” When I am playing Starcraft 2, I am constantly juggling multiple tasks—which include building units, moving them around, ordering them to attack, mining resources, expanding, as well as thinking of counter-attacks. My brain is working in overtime, which is apparent as my mind often feels “burnt out” after playing a few games. I am sure that Napoleon felt the same thoughts going through his head in the heat of war, or when planning attacks with his army.
So I thus concluded that yes, Starcraft 2 does indeed have some cognitive benefits. I definitely know that when I am playing Starcraft 2, it exercises a part of my brain which typically doesn’t get stimulated by an other activity (the closest one I can think about is sports, when I am planning strategies).
![[image loading]](http://povray.tashcorp.net/tutorials/qd_csgchess/chess.jpg)
What is the difference between Chess and Starcraft 2?
However another large argument against video games is that they’re a waste of time. I’m not sure if I want to say that video games are a waste of time, but that they sure do take up a lot of time.
Why do video games take up so much time? Well the biggest point is that when one is playing video games, he or she becomes so engrossed into the activity that he or she forgets about everything else. Time seems to “fly by” and people forget about everything else in their lives—such as their worries, frustrations, and concerns and even forget if they are hungry or need to go to the bathroom. Also when people are “in the zone” when playing video games, they feel genuinely happy. Why do people feel like this when we are playing video games?
Being in the flow
The answer is that when people are playing video games, they become immersed into a state of “flow.” Psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi discusses this in-depth in his book “Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience.” In his book he discusses that the way for us to be optimally happy in life is become in these states of “flow” when we are “in the zone” and forget about everything else. Think about when you are playing a game of basketball, and you forget about everything else. Or when you are taking photos, and seem to lose track of time. Or spending such a good time with friends and family that nothing else seems to matter.
Csikszentmihalyi then breaks it down further, explaining that in order for people to experience these states of “flow,” they have to not only be challenged, but also use their creativity in synergy. This is why video games (especially Starcraft 2) create states of “flow.” When one is playing Starcraft 2, depending on what league they are, most likely they are playing against opponents who are around his/her skill level. Therefore they always feel challenged, and must find creative strategies and novel ways how to beat them. It simply isn’t enough to just win. Think about it—when do we feel more satisfaction? When we crush our opponents or when it is neck-to-neck and we win in the end?
Not only that, but Starcraft 2 (unlike life) shows us progress. Everytime I win a game in Starcraft 2, I gain points which increase my ranking. In real life it is difficult to chart and measure or success (although most people like to do it by their GPA, their income, or credit score). This is another great way how video games reward the users, which convince them to continuously play.
![[image loading]](http://theshokzguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ShokzLadderRank.jpg)
Every win brings you closer to becoming #1
Summing it up
So to sum up the two points mentioned beforehand, I believe that Starcraft 2 is actually indeed beneficial to a person, as they are able to sharpen their mind by exercising their cognitive skills while playing challenging games against equally-equipped opponents. Not only that, but Starcraft 2 also puts people into modes of “flow” which make people genuinely happy.
However there are still many negative impacts on playing Starcraft 2 and video games in general. 1) It can hurt relationships. How many horror stories do we hear of people who lose their girlfriends and friends because they become so addicted to their video games? I know personally there have been moments when I have gotten into fights with my girlfriend as she felt neglected. 2) It disrupts sleep patterns. Whenever I play Starcraft 2, I always get a huge surge of adrenaline when playing 1v1’s. Needless to say, having testosterone pumping into my system at 10pm prevent me from falling asleep until maybe 2-3am in the morning. This ends up screwing up my sleeping schedule, which negatively impacts my following day. 3) It doesn’t give us any “real” benefits. Sure it can help sharpen our cognitive skills, but what true benefit does it give us? All those hours of playing Starcraft could be dedicated to starting up a business, seeing lost-long friends, or learning new things or skills.
Perhaps I am taking the subject too seriously, but as a sociologist and interested in the affects of the internet in our personal lives and on society—it is a great thought exercise for me. But I guess in the end, everything is okay in moderation. After all, even the best things out there can kill us. Drinking too much water can poison us, and eating too much carrots will literally make us turn orange. Now excuse me as I crack open a beer and see if there are any noobs I can destroy on Battlenet.
![[image loading]](http://seemslegit.com/_images/6277442017d11c32a723eb6c40b40406/702%20-%20asians%20rush%20starcraft%20zerg.jpg)
Your personal thoughts and reactions are greatly appreciated.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
im first one ^^, i like your story, i think playing to much if u are not going to be competitive its a waste of time, but it depends, because u should spend your time in what makes u happy, ppl said that games take your social life away, while this is 50/50 truth, ppl that just go out to drink and going to partys every weekend are wasting time too.
nice write.
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Australia8532 Posts
Awesome write up - at least there is some justification to my time spent on sc2.. this might want to be a blog though?
Sometimes i think the benefits could be attained from some other more constructive, societal contributory action? But hey, it just wouldnt be as fun as starcraft!
Again - great write up!
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Wow this is a good write-up!
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If you enjoy playing a game, its not a waste of time.
If you dont enjoy it, dont play it.
Whether or not it has some other benefits or not is irrelevant if you are having fun doing something.
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Pros:
Fun
Something to compete in. (Great for people who aren't competing in something else)
Play with friends / social
Mentally stimulating (unless u play terran)
Cons: Same as anything else you do for fun. The game isn't designed to be an investment unless ur a pro.
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A lot of the stuff you wrote about, I had already heard of, but your piece on flow is very intriguing. I've often thought that playing a challenging game (whether a video game, board game or card game) is the only time I ever truly live in the present. When I play Magic: The Gathering, Chess, or StarCraft, nothing else exists except that game.
Thanks for writing: Maybe some guilty people won't feel so guilty now, and some disapproving parents/SO's will understand some of it's benefits.
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I'm a minor, so I have so much free time on my hands, but I still keep it in my mind that I should focus more on real-life activities and goals.
I agree that video games make you happy. Even when I'm not on any game, maybe just surfing on TL.net or reading topics on the web, time just flies by. I somehow even forget that I'm sick (terrible coughs) and I seldom cough, as opposed to every few seconds.
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Your section on flow and being in the zone sounds an awful lot like Buddhist teachings. Getting lost in what your doing so that you lose all thought is a way to find enlightenment. This is why monks often work on repetitive tasks as a form of meditation. Only by clearing your mind of all thought can you then attain enlightenment. Otherwise your random thoughts about mundane day to day things and how your body feels at the time crowed out wisdom. Maybe someone who is more familiar with Zen could comment? I am only paraphrasing what I remember from a few classes in college and some personal reading many years ago.
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waiit.,,
you were higher on the ladder than orb? and almost as high as LZgamer?
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video games do make your sharper in general unlike tv since ur brain has to continually make decisions and be active. but only playing 1 game isnt that great tho. personally, since i rent games, i play new games every week so ur brain will come across new challenges new mechanics to overcome, which is what makes a person sharp. starcraft 2 is beneficial but i think only in the short term, u play like countless hours every day for a long time, it is a waste of time and will not get u anywhere. brain only evolves if u keep introducing new things to it and challenging it. i played starcraft 2 when it came out in the 1st month, now i only play with my friends sometimes. wow long post imade
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Netherlands19138 Posts
Welcome to Teamliquid! Great first post, I hope to see many more.
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Lol this write up is fantastic. U got me hooked from the first few paragraphs.
Yea blizzard made the game so u cannot resist it. That's their well done.
It is possible that since in Sc2 u can think about cause and effect, and u need to decide these quickly, it may be possible u can apply this in real life, when making certain decisions.
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While this is a pretty nice article and is well written, I can't help but think you have an utterly terrible attitude to life. The fact that you thought you had to take 4 years away from playing games just to attend college makes me pity you a little bit (I'm not flaming you, that was my honest reaction). What ever happened to time management? There is more than enough time in the day for you to enjoy videogames while still socializing and studying for college.
Moreover this whole post just strikes me as you trying to convince yourself that you arn't wasting time playing SC2.
I think the more important questions are:
1) What is your definition of "wasted time"?
2) Does it matter if you "waste time" playing games?
Personally, my answer to question 1 ( what is your definition of wasted time?). Would be time where you arn't doing anything AT ALL (including sitting back and relaxing). A clearer definition would be doing something you personally don't enjoy which has no benefit to you in the short or long term (including the benefit of seeing people around you happy). Using this as my definition there are very few things which I would consider a waste of a persons time as long as they are gaining some type of fun or reward for doing it.
Now, as regards to question two, I would think my stance is pretty clear. Why exactly would you even consider something which you derive so much joy from playing a waste of time? That boggles my mind. Do you also class sex (for the sake of pleasure, not procreation) as a "waste of time"? I mean... You arn't gaining anything but happiness from it right?
What this all boils down to (beware: cliche wishywashy philosophy incoming, but it's true nonetheless), is the fact that noone can tell you how to live life, or what is a "waste of time". Having fun is an important part of it though, and if you have FUN playing games, there is no reason to dismiss that as wasted time.
As you stated near the bottom of the article "But I guess in the end, everything is okay in moderation.", which basically just disregards everything else you wrote. Moderation is the key to anything in life. You have to find the time to work and the time to play, and if you think something you find immensely fun is "wasted time", like I said, I pity you.
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I agree that playing Starcraft has certain benefits, but if those benefits are your primary motivation for playing, you are probably wasting your time. In my opinion, Starcraft is first and foremost a game, intended to entertain more than anything else.
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On December 23 2010 08:26 Dont Panic wrote:
Pros:
Fun
Something to compete in. (Great for people who aren't competing in something else)
Play with friends / social
Mentally stimulating (unless u play terran)
Cons: Same as anything else you do for fun. The game isn't designed to be an investment unless ur a pro.
Pretty much sums it up. It's a "waste of time" in that it isn't all that productive and by that I mean give you career related skills. But everything in life isn't all about if it can make you money. Almost everything we do would fall under "waste of time." Learning to play guitar for a musician might be productive, but for a hobbyist it's a "waste of time." But R&R is important too. Just don't overdo it. And mentally stimulating is also important as "excercising your mind" is as important as your body i.e. no vegging in front of the telly.
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Great first post!
I actually have to applaud you here for taking the time to actually research into something and not label things arbitrarily.
Something i come across alot. is what you were saying when "I knew that I had other “better” things to do—like read, write, exercise, or spend time with my friends or girlfriend" - i consider reading a book to be just as big a waste of time as watching a movie because they are both stories that unless it is reading for a study course or something dont benefit you at all.
Personally i am always confused at people making this argument, as any person with self control can do all of these. I know i personally play 2-3 hours a day when i can, but i also hold down a regular job, see my girlfriend, go out for drinks with mates (when i can afford it uni loans suck!) take time to go to MMA classes etc.
Life to me is too short, and as long as you are doing something that makes you happy whats really wrong with it? I can understand the point of view that certain people have different priorities, but it does frustrate me when people say "this is a waste of time" just because you dont see any benefit in it, doesnt mean other people do!
"but I guess in the end, everything is okay in moderation." is something that is not said enough!
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Dan Pink talks about what motivates us ... being 3 things:
1) autonomy - doing things ourselves
2) mastery - wanting to get better at something
3) purpose - feeling that there is a purpose to what we do
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i always thought of free time as free time, nothing beyond that. do what you want to do, it could be playing video games like sc, watching tv, working out, whatever.
6 hours of sc2 could be the same as 2 hours of reading, 2 hours of working out, 2 hours of playing sc2. all comes down to what you want to do: be health vs educate vs have fun vs be productive to be unproductive.
great write up, you have great self control i must say ^^
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Excellent writeup! A very amusing read.
Strange that nobody mentioned the typical response ''time you enjoy wasting is not wasted'' yet. As long as it doesn't interfere with other activities gaming is fine in my book. Actually it can be rather useful
[B]On December 23 2010 08:11 ekizz wrote:
I play Starcraft 2, I always get a huge surge of adrenaline when playing 1v1’s. Needless to say, having testosterone pumping into my system at 10pm prevent me from falling asleep until maybe 2-3am in the morning. This ends up screwing up my sleeping schedule, which negatively impacts my following day. 3) It doesn’t give us any “real” benefits. Sure it can help sharpen our cognitive skills, but what true benefit does it give us? All those hours of playing Starcraft could be dedicated to starting up a business, seeing lost-long friends, or learning new things or skills.
That can actually be good too. I'm staying up all night today to finish a report and just a little while ago i was feeling sleepy. Since coffee doesn't help me much anymore I just went online, played a couple of game and bam - I'm all pumped now ^^ (It's kinda tricky though, you have to be able to stop at 2 games!). Also gaming has helped me alot in periods where I really lack time like exams. It's much easier to blow some steam by playing a few games than go out and hang out friends, since when I come back home I have a hard to put my brain back into study mode.
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Great read there was another post like this several month ago and related the cognitive benefits and its application to your job. Or in the case of the author a job interview for a managerial position, he went on to say that his ability to multi task and resource management stemmed from his lengthy brood war career.
The only draw back that I feel has a real impact on gamers is the chemicals that get pumped into your system with no real outlet. I feel that once e-sports takes off there is gonna be some heavy research invested into the best way to utilize said adrenaline or at least try and throttle it's effects.
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wow good read
awesome 1st post
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Very interesting read, want more.
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while I agree SC2 kinda is a waste of time (least for those of us who dont have enough time to dedicate into getting good enough to try and make multiple MLG's/etc) I think out of all the games you can play, SC2 provides the best competitive drive, and just gives that feeling of accomplishment.
So while I wish I could quit gaming completely, and I pretty much have except for SC2.. I still think if you are going to play ANY games at all, SC2 is the one to play.
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On December 23 2010 08:39 Sakarabu wrote:
While this is a pretty nice article and is well written, I can't help but think you have an utterly terrible attitude to life. The fact that you thought you had to take 4 years away from playing games just to attend college makes me pity you a little bit (I'm not flaming you, that was my honest reaction). What ever happened to time management? There is more than enough time in the day for you to enjoy videogames while still socializing and studying for college.
Moreover this whole post just strikes me as you trying to convince yourself that you arn't wasting time playing SC2.
I think the more important questions are:
1) What is your definition of "wasted time"?
2) Does it matter if you "waste time" playing games?
Personally, my answer to question 1 ( what is your definition of wasted time?). Would be time where you arn't doing anything AT ALL (including sitting back and relaxing). A clearer definition would be doing something you personally don't enjoy which has no benefit to you in the short or long term (including the benefit of seeing people around you happy). Using this as my definition there are very few things which I would consider a waste of a persons time as long as they are gaining some type of fun or reward for doing it.
Now, as regards to question two, I would think my stance is pretty clear. Why exactly would you even consider something which you derive so much joy from playing a waste of time? That boggles my mind. Do you also class sex (for the sake of pleasure, not procreation) as a "waste of time"? I mean... You arn't gaining anything but happiness from it right?
What this all boils down to (beware: cliche wishywashy philosophy incoming, but it's true nonetheless), is the fact that noone can tell you how to live life, or what is a "waste of time". Having fun is an important part of it though, and if you have FUN playing games, there is no reason to dismiss that as wasted time.
As you stated near the bottom of the article "But I guess in the end, everything is okay in moderation.", which basically just disregards everything else you wrote. Moderation is the key to anything in life. You have to find the time to work and the time to play, and if you think something you find immensely fun is "wasted time", like I said, I pity you.
I stand baffled. You summed up a response that I would've not been able to accomplish nor even arrange half as good but that I yet agree to 110 %.
The original poster combined with your response really gave me some to think about.
Thanks to both of you
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I like the write up, nothing earth shockingly new in thought...as many as you pointed out have wrote entire books weighing out the benefits of video games in general. Overall though, it's always good to see people look at their time allocation to something like a game in a smart manner.
In my opinion the only way video games hurt people, is typically people who are prone to distraction...ADD, ODD, ADHD...and people who just got some tough breaks and are at the point they'd rather lose themself in a game then face real life. I oddly enough had a friend growing up who was the later. Lost himself in games constantly neglecting friends, school work, his job...all because he was self concious about the fact he looked down right fugly. Granted he eventually grew out of it, foudnd a nice girl who liked him for him, and became more social and better at work...but it's easy to see how someone who gets delt some bad cards can run to things like games for comfort.
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On December 23 2010 08:11 ekizz wrote:
Nevertheless I was intrigued, so I decided to start reading the book. I was quite surprised to see that one of the first chapters in the book had an entire section devoted to video games. He then presents a pretty convincing question to the reader: what is the difference between a kid solving a puzzle in Zelda versus solving a math equation on a standardized test? That is to say—is there any real cognitive benefit of learning how to solve math equations over solving challenging puzzles in video games?
This is a rather poor comparison. Nobody takes standardized math tests for fun. The math problems on these tests are routine and boring (for those who like math). For fun, people (if they haven't yet graduated from college) practice for and compete in math contests, where the exams consist of problems that are much less routine. The puzzles that you find on these exams are much harder and deeper than those that you find in video games.
The puzzles that you find in video games are designed by the game developers so that anyone can solve them in a few minutes. They're so simple that you don't have to write anything down to solve them. Game developers don't want to frustrate or "work" their customers. Math puzzles are designed to be challenging so that only a small portion of contestants can solve them.
I don't really feel like I've accomplished anything when I solve a puzzle in a video game because I know that it was designed so that anyone can solve it easily. It was when I came to this realization that I stopped playing single player video games.
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wow man nice article, seriously great write up!
anyways, i was playing blizzard games( especialy sc) since i was about 3-4 years old, and actually i think starcraft and starcraft 2 is beneficial to me or you. i play the bass (the double bass, not bass guitar) and the thing is that you have to have agility and strength in your left had (cause the strings are FREAKING CABLES! CABLES I TELL YOU!) and you need to always control your bow with your right hand( thats for rightys lol). A few years back in middle school i started to notice that after a while of playing the bass and getting to know it, i started being able to play some insane stuff, jump between strings almost instantaneously and being able to control my bow much better as i got better in sc2. Also, playing music while playing sc2 really helps me focus, as it gives me a bit of calm of what strat im going to do like a 2 void push or double robo (all the way!).
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I don't if this is the best first post (haven't been with TL for that long), but it definitely ranks up there for me. This is a fantastic OP.
As for my personal thoughts, I feel that a lot of people have been bashing on you saying that you thought doing something you like to do is a waste of time and I don't quite understand it. I, personally, will sometimes have the same reaction to doing things, but your write up makes me think completely differently about video games. I never thought abuot the cognitive benefits to playing video games, but it seems to be obvious now.
As for modern games, I feel that video games are less about puzzle solving (unless you consider a 1v1 an abstract puzzle), and more about quick decision making. This, I feel, is very beneficial to real life applications. Although you wont have situations in life where it is an obvious answer like "Oh he's going muta-ling, well if I go dual-stargate pheonix, I'll be able to counter it and spend minerals into zealots and gas into sentries and pheonixes" you will have more abstract problems that need to be solved quickly. I feel that SC2 provides a nice practice for these real life quick and abstract problem-solving scenairios.
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Life is yours to do what you want with it. Everything is essentially as meaningless (or meaningful) as everything else, pursuing SC2 as a passion among all the rest. If you are enjoying it, continue. I have done my best to shirk the upper-middle class "job/be productive/sense of self worth" mentality, but it is difficult because it is so firmly entrenched.
Existence is empty -- fill it with what you like to do. For me, that includes a large amount of SC2. I wouldn't change a second of all that time "wasted".
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I am going to send this to my parents, maybe they won't beat me with a stick every time I mask my StarCraft with homework.
:3
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On December 23 2010 08:18 2GRe-Play- wrote:
im first one ^^, i like your story, i think playing to much if u are not going to be competitive its a waste of time, but it depends, because u should spend your time in what makes u happy, ppl said that games take your social life away, while this is 50/50 truth, ppl that just go out to drink and going to partys every weekend are wasting time too.
nice write.
This. Plus, I think Starcraft 2 in general add more aspects to social discussion. For example, I am always talking about Starcraft 2 and other games such as DotA with my friends, either on skype the evening or in real-life daily talks. I don't think devoting that much time to a passion, even if you are not going to go in Korea and win lots of money, it's not a waste of time. I rather do it than going out in bars every night and burn my money on alcohol when there are no special events.
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Pop culture bad? :-( I disagree with that statement (not that you made it, just in general). It's extremely important. I think I have to quote Day9 for my opinion: "I love that I love starcraft".
Too much of anything is bad, but I see nothing wrong with working on Starcraft being my entertainment 
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Very good read.
I agree that video games (in moderation) can actually be good for us.
He then presents a pretty convincing question to the reader: what is the difference between a kid solving a puzzle in Zelda versus solving a math equation on a standardized test? That is to say—is there any real cognitive benefit of learning how to solve math equations over solving challenging puzzles in video games?
Thats a good point! Lets start teaching SC2 in school haha!
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bottom line is that doing anything u love or are passionate about is never a waste of time. if u like to play then play and savor every second of it.
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Good post. I think if you enjoy doing something it is not a waste of time. Life is not all about making money and working jobs. If you live to work instead of working to live you will end up depressed and that to me would be more of a waste time.
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I enjoyed reading this since it brings up a lot of aspects of gaming. As for my opinion, in the end it is, like everything else, a question of balance. Wheather it is beneficial or not is also a highly personal question, and differs greatly. If the abilities you develop playing helps you in your personal- or worklife of course it is beneficial, that goes without saying. As you increase playtime you will reach a point when this becomes questionable, when your efficiency at work becomes stagnant with more playtime as you start losing sleep, etc... So as said, a question of balance.
Also, it is a question of perspective. You have to ask yourself wheather or not the happiness you gain from playing outweigh the loss in efficiency you experience in work and or personal life, and once again you will find yourself balancing on a scale, trying to optimize both =)
So in the end you will have to find the optimal solution for you personally, since there is no mathematical "correct" answer (unless you disregard life quality from the equation, which makes it rather simple). I like the way you handle it though, cranking a beer open and saying "screw it, I'll do what I feel like" tends to be a good answer, regardless of the question :D:D
Edit: Oh and also, on the lost sleep note, just don't ladder at late times :p Find a buddy or two to play with if the time draws late. It might be even more adrenaline-pumping than ladder to begin with, but eventually (this is true for me, at least) you will feel more relaxed playing it and stop caring particularly about the results. Other good things to do in later hours (related to sc2 that is) is listening to podcasts or watching streams or replays, I find it very relaxing. Hope that helps ^
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As expected of a korean, getting 5-0 in placements and being in platinum.
Loved the story ^^ and welcome to TL! You will be diamond soon sir!
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Interesting and well written.
I think I might look into the two books you mentioned.
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Amazing 1post.
Well what you need is positive balance. Ying Yang my friend. Games hurt you only if you let
Welcome
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Hm, I feel quite the same. I feel that anything that makes you happy is not a waste of time. The way I think is "would you rather... or...". Of course there are lines to be drawn (i.e. would you rather play some SC2 or go do your homework. While you play Sc2 you're happy for that moment but neglecting your homework will grieve you with greater drawbacks (getting bad grades)) but if you can do something without fear of something else that may have very negative repercussions, then do so. Happiness is the juice of life.
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If you play sc2 ladder to get really good, the amount of time it takes really I would say it's a hobby, so treat it like a hobby.
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It really depends on "What is a waste of time or not"
For example, What is the difference between solving a puzzle in zelda and solving a simple match equation in real life
But some games don't have "Puzzles" lots of ones for example Call of duty doesnt have puzzles, just a shoot and kill them game, kids these days play Halo and call of duty and all these other games which actually dont have much to them, Whats the difference between shooting a man in Call of duty and solving a simple math equation in real life? basically everything!
But of course this does not apply to ALL of the games, but it basically applies to "Popular Games" Nowadays as 90% of kids don't think about Gameplay, but instead popularity.
Ask any kid in Middle school or high school nowadays (thats not korean) about starcraft and they'll either say
1. What's that?
2. You're a nerd
All kids rely on the popularity of games to tell whats "A good game" or "A bad game" Infact kids also play games they seriously don't even enjoy.
And 99% of "Popular" Games are all brainless "No puzzles included" Type of games.
Anyways that's my insight on it.
But also I like you're story.
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Good article. I'm amused by the "his/her" business when we're overwhelmingly male.
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Awesome write-up. I appreciate the FUCK out of you for this being your first post, welcome, welcome, welcome, please stay and chat 
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I remember reading a thread awhile back that videogames or games like starcraft (with large multitasking) can help promote ADD and whatnot. Can't really find it at the moment, but was interesting.
Anyways, throw that under the "cons" section for those of us that actually multitask.
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Best first post ever?
I think being competitive in video games is very good for your mindset. As a young person, it gives you the opportunity to peer into (and conquer) a very competitive world. One that simulates the competitiveness of adulthood once one gets there.
<3
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that was a great read; though a lot of it has been said before, you've managed to summarize many of the beneifts of playing sc quite nicely. definitely gonna check out that "flow" book too, seems really interesting the way u put it
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if you have fun while you play, it's not a waste of time. If you don't have fun, it's a waste of time. Unless your making a SERIOUS living off of it like the liquid guys or EG or w/e. Not you people who win 100$ once a month in an online tournament at the expense of 6 hours a day of playing.
in myy opinion
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Great read, well made OP. You are looking at starcraft like a stereotypical adult which is great because I think most or at least a sizable portion of sc2 players are adult.
I like to think of it even more simple. Does it make me happy? I think when it comes to it thats the kind of life I want to lead, a happy life. The answer for me is yes... except when I've lost more than 3 matches in a row, but thanks to the automatch system that doesn't happen much To look further into my own personal starcraft wellbeing. I have to say it make me more happy than most activities, while costing me less money than most activities that make me this happy, which is importiant for long term happiness (retirement, healthcare, ect).
So what I guess I am trying to say is to figure out if starcraft elevates your mood and compair it to other activities that elevate your mood and use that to judge if it is good for you.
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When you play games, you're buying utility with time. It's impossible to quantify how much utility you get out of it. There's no need to analyze it so deeply; just play if you want to, and if you don't think you have time, then don't.
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As long as im having fun, its never going to be a waste of my time.
Incredible read btw, thanks.
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Anyone else wasting way more time by just surfing on the internet and F5ing the same 5-10 pages for like 2 hours?
F5
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this is an amazing write up. I cant tell you how many time my girl or friends or parents tell me video games are a waste of time. but at the end of the day its just a hobby like someone posted earlier. Many people have many different hobbies, this one just happens to be the best one =P
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This was a first post? Very nice, welcome to teamliquid.
Yes it can be a waste of time. But a life filled with things that are only productive is hardly a life at all.
As long as you're having fun and not neglecting anything especially important, it's worth it.
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As a game designer (shooters, not RTS games), I wrestle with these sorts of questions regularly because quite honestly, this has a bearing on the nature of my entire career. If games really are an unfulfilling or even harmful waste of time, what does that make a game creator? Something like a crack dealer, I suppose.
I'm going to try to tear down some pro-game arguments here in the process of building something stronger, or at least more general, in their place.
It is possible for time spent playing a game to be wasted and pointless. The reason is that just because you feel compelled to play a game does not mean that it is enjoyable or meaningful. Games compel people to play them through many different psychological hooks, and only some of these have to do with genuine pleasure, emotion, or experience.
The negative examples are grind-based MMO and Facebook games. WoW is, of course, the king of these types of games. WoW can be fun, but it often isn't. People play it anyways because it triggers an evolutionarily developed psychological hook in their brain. They do not do it for pleasure, they play compulsively. This is why it is called "grinding" in WoW, and not "playing". This kind of play can be life-destroying and isn't worth the time put into it. In some sense it is dangerous because of how powerful a hook it is and how much it can crowd out more meaningful life experiences.
However, this is just one type of game. There are other, more meaningful games. A game like BioShock, for example, offers an interesting world and story to explore. After its limited play time, I think most players walk away enriched, having had a meaningful experience and maybe even felt some emotion from it.
Starcraft is in the respectable games category, but not because of story like BioShock. I'd say it is respectable in the same way that Chess or Go are, since it is a highly skill based game which forces players to learn and grow, and generates emotional experiences. Feel triumph, loss, frustration, suspense while playing MP matches. Perhaps enter a tournament or join a clan. Try new strategies, adapt, work on various skills. It's not far off learning to play the piano, and learning these kinds of skills transforms the brain to make it more adapted to other types of mental challenges.
So, while some games are genuinely pointless wastes of time (and I would never work on or play them), others are not if they provide meaning, emotion, and human growth. I would have been proud to work on SC2, and I'm happy to play it.
This applies to all media as well, not just video games. Books: Twilight vs To Kill a Mockingbird, for example.
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On December 23 2010 08:30 GiantEnemyCrab wrote:
video games do make your sharper in general unlike tv since ur brain has to continually make decisions and be active. but only playing 1 game isnt that great tho. personally, since i rent games, i play new games every week so ur brain will come across new challenges new mechanics to overcome, which is what makes a person sharp. starcraft 2 is beneficial but i think only in the short term, u play like countless hours every day for a long time, it is a waste of time and will not get u anywhere. brain only evolves if u keep introducing new things to it and challenging it. i played starcraft 2 when it came out in the 1st month, now i only play with my friends sometimes. wow long post imade
I disagree star craft 2 can have the same benefits of playing many different games. While you always have the same ability's and characters at your disposal your always being challenged in a variety different situations while having to maintain the skills you have already learned(macro,micro). Your making star craft sound like once you learn the basic you will never be challenged again witch is untrue.
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Very nice article ! Now I believe I may have a small chance of persuading my gf that videogames aren't only for mentally retarded teenagers.
The only thing I could answer is that while playing SC certainly trains your brain it does not develop your knowledge of the outside world, which maybe the most important of the cognitive tasks.
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First of all I have to acknowledge how awesome of a post that was... Haha. Very clear and well thought out, just a good change of pace from the usual stuff I read here :p.
As for the actual question, I think in your final conclusion you hit the nail on the head. StarCraft (and probably other games) are in fact beneficial to a person. The most important thing is happiness. Happiness is the most important to a person. Regardless of if you are well educated, have a high paying job, have a family or friends, if you are happy that is all that really matters right? Aside from pure happiness, if you are a person who needs the aforementioned in order to be happy (which is most people, not many people like being poor and/or lonely :p) then I think it still has a lot of benefit to a person, as you said, in improving cognitive skills.
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On December 23 2010 08:26 Dont Panic wrote:
Mentally stimulating (unless u play terran)
That was a joke, right?
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I say anyone's first priority is for them to get to a state where they are making enough money to do what they want. Pursuit of happiness is a beautiful thing and is NEVER a waste of time.
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If i am looking for benefits from my activities, i won't do anything and won't eat anything.
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Video games are fine as long as it doesn't interfere with your responsibilities. I've contemplated the same thing over and over "is SC bad for me.. should I stop?" But then I thought back to before I played SC. In my free time I just watched TV or messed around. There is always down time in your life, time for fun and hobby. If you use that time on SC there is nothing wrong with it, everyone needs a hobby.
It's when you start calling in sick to work to play SC2, or blow off your girlfriend on Friday night just to get some extra gaming in even though u haven't seen her all week, if stuff like that starts occurring then it's bad for you to be gaming. But until then, nothing wrong with having a hobby.
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As many others have said; moderation is key - to everything.
How it benefits you is, in my opinion, highly individual. But in general I believe that if you moderate your gaming (or whatever you would like) time and spend time with other important aspects of life, it will almost definately benefit you. Maybe not always in a concrete way, but it will at least make you happier, which is always important.
And props to you, this was a great read.
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On December 23 2010 08:39 Sakarabu wrote:
While this is a pretty nice article and is well written, I can't help but think you have an utterly terrible attitude to life. The fact that you thought you had to take 4 years away from playing games just to attend college makes me pity you a little bit (I'm not flaming you, that was my honest reaction). What ever happened to time management? There is more than enough time in the day for you to enjoy videogames while still socializing and studying for college.
Moreover this whole post just strikes me as you trying to convince yourself that you arn't wasting time playing SC2.
I think the more important questions are:
1) What is your definition of "wasted time"?
2) Does it matter if you "waste time" playing games?
Personally, my answer to question 1 ( what is your definition of wasted time?). Would be time where you arn't doing anything AT ALL (including sitting back and relaxing). A clearer definition would be doing something you personally don't enjoy which has no benefit to you in the short or long term (including the benefit of seeing people around you happy). Using this as my definition there are very few things which I would consider a waste of a persons time as long as they are gaining some type of fun or reward for doing it.
Now, as regards to question two, I would think my stance is pretty clear. Why exactly would you even consider something which you derive so much joy from playing a waste of time? That boggles my mind. Do you also class sex (for the sake of pleasure, not procreation) as a "waste of time"? I mean... You arn't gaining anything but happiness from it right?
What this all boils down to (beware: cliche wishywashy philosophy incoming, but it's true nonetheless), is the fact that noone can tell you how to live life, or what is a "waste of time". Having fun is an important part of it though, and if you have FUN playing games, there is no reason to dismiss that as wasted time.
As you stated near the bottom of the article "But I guess in the end, everything is okay in moderation.", which basically just disregards everything else you wrote. Moderation is the key to anything in life. You have to find the time to work and the time to play, and if you think something you find immensely fun is "wasted time", like I said, I pity you.
Very good post. I would recommend everyone to read this if they were intrigued by the concepts presented in this thread. Basically I think Starcraft becomes a problem when it starts interfering negatively with your life. This type of impact could be social, academic, emotional, physical, etc. The line is different for everyone but the important thing is to be able to recognize and accept that there is a problem and not be in denial.
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Living in a society where parents frown upon games and expects their child to outperform their peers in academics makes me totally approve of this post. I have heard of the phrase"gaming is a waste of time" so many times that i am pretty much immune to it right now.
Take note: im pretty sure the OP comes from a very similar society from myself, where one is driven to outdo his peers in the things that he does. Hence you can't blame him for thinking playibg games are a waste of time, instead im applauding him for his high level of self discipline that has made him not touch video games even though he likes them so much.
Also all that talk about the "flow" thing rings true with me. I have been endlessly searching for a way to invoke this feeling within me where my mind is cleansed of all thoughts and is solely focusing on what im doing, in that case playing osu or starcraft 2. And that feeling sure feels good.
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I never really understand why people downplay things like the cognitive work it takes to play a game of Starcraft with focus. I find it far more tiring on my mind than more traditionally difficult/stressful tasks such as solving advanced sorts of systems in higher level mathematics courses.
The bias against popular culture/video games in terms of its effects on your mind is so absurd. It's good to see someone writing a book against it. The ignorant, mindless assumptions and beliefs people have on this subject bother me to no end!
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For me personally, Starcraft 2 has saved me from debt and has spared me a SHITLOAD of drama that I otherwise would have right now because I'd still be out drinking every other night (I'm in college).
I haven't completely stopped going out (once or twice a month), but at this point, my grades have never been better, and I've never felt more financially stable in the last three years than I do right now. And man oh man, the drama in my life is at an all time low. It's fantastic!
Friends: "OMG Tim, all you do anymore is stay at home and play that fucking video game and rot."
Me: "You're absolutely right, I should be going out every night and blowing tons of money on liquids that harm my liver, brain, stomach, kidneys, etc... silly me. What was I thinking?"
Who the hell has the right to tell you what should be making you happy in life? Why should you be ashamed because something as simple to the naked eye as a video game fulfills your need for pleasure? I think people who blow money into cars are extremely dumb and are wasting their time, but I'm not going to go and point out that one day their car is going to stop working and it'll all have been for nothing. It's something they enjoy doing with their and I have no goddamn right to deny them that, just like nobody has a goddamn right to deny you what makes you happy (unless it's like heroin or something, then that's different).
It's just like Day[9] says. Look at my signature.
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Games are only detrimental if they overtake your life. Once you start missing classes or work to play them, or start to eat unhealthily because you can't be bothered cooking, or lose a relationship because of them - that's when you know they've become more than just a hobby.
I think that once you've 'handled' the important areas of your life (you're happy with how you look, how you eat, who your friends are, the state of your relationships, your career, your grades, etc), games are a great way to relax, let off steam and have fun.
Humans need R&R time too. And nobody except yourself should ever say how you should spend that time.
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I really liked this subject. Is starcraft 2 a wast of time, , and has it some cognitives benefits ... Video games take a lots of time in many people's lives, and i think it's really important to just think about it.
Great post, looking for more.
Edit : "As many others have said; moderation is key - to everything."
I think this sentence rulz the life, in fact =) At least for non programer player.
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As long as someone derives utility from what you do and if what you do, isn't going to hurt anybody, then it is not a waste of time at all.
This "waste of time" argument brought up by parents is in my opinion an expression of fear. Parents fear that their children fail at live. They fear that all the effort, they put into their kids, was in vain.
Therefore I think it is very important to communicate to parents what gaming means and how important it is for us. Because even if you are free to do what you want - I would always try to not disappoint my parents. But just as long as they don't expect too much from me.
So if you gain fun from playing games and your parents (or whoever) are okay with it - do it.
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+ Show Spoiler +Being in the flow
The answer is that when people are playing video games, they become immersed into a state of “flow.” Psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi discusses this in-depth in his book “Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience.” In his book he discusses that the way for us to be optimally happy in life is become in these states of “flow” when we are “in the zone” and forget about everything else. Think about when you are playing a game of basketball, and you forget about everything else. Or when you are taking photos, and seem to lose track of time. Or spending such a good time with friends and family that nothing else seems to matter.
Csikszentmihalyi then breaks it down further, explaining that in order for people to experience these states of “flow,” they have to not only be challenged, but also use their creativity in synergy. This is why video games (especially Starcraft 2) create states of “flow.” When one is playing Starcraft 2, depending on what league they are, most likely they are playing against opponents who are around his/her skill level. Therefore they always feel challenged, and must find creative strategies and novel ways how to beat them. It simply isn’t enough to just win. Think about it—when do we feel more satisfaction? When we crush our opponents or when it is neck-to-neck and we win in the end?
Not only that, but Starcraft 2 (unlike life) shows us progress. Everytime I win a game in Starcraft 2, I gain points which increase my ranking. In real life it is difficult to chart and measure or success (although most people like to do it by their GPA, their income, or credit score). This is another great way how video games reward the users, which convince them to continuously play.
Good to read the part about Csikszentmihalyi and his "flow". I will pick up that book off him to read between Christmas and New Year.
Great write-up.
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Starcraft 2 is actually indeed beneficial to a person, as they are able to sharpen their mind by exercising their cognitive skills while playing challenging games against equally-equipped opponents. Not only that, but Starcraft 2 also puts people into modes of “flow” which make people genuinely happy
I think that's something to rescue from SC2, I mean if someone for some reason needs to exercise his cognitive skills, play any sport.
My point is you can achieve all the "benefits" SC2 gives you by other much more healthy means.
I think this way mostly because I don't find SC2 fun anymore...
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If you have fun or had fun playing Starcraft or Starcraft 2 it was not a waste of time. Life is about having a good time. If you have a good time playing Starcraft, it was worth it.
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People are always afraid of the things the new generations do, but the fact is that IQ test scores are consistently going up, and the tests are constantly being standardized so that 100 is still average.
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As excited as I was, I told myself that I would never play Starcraft 2 because of the potential time I would kill playing it. When I was growing up, I remember coming home from school and play video games or watch TV for nearly 5-6 hours straight. A lot of wasted time—and I regretted it in hindsight. Therefore I knew that if I started playing Starcraft 2, I would never be able to put it down.
This is just wrong to say imo, you don't have to regret what you done when you were kid. You would never have been able to think this way when you did it.
And you don't have to be too hardcore and play it all the time, enjoy the time you are playing it and don't mind your rating too much if you don't have the time to. I don't have the time (school, exams) to play it very often, but I follow many tournaments nonetheless and I truly enjoy the game.
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Really nice write up, I guess it is a bit of a waste of time playing if your not a professional as i dont really see any skills in the game carrying over to real life for the average person sure you could spend that time that you've invested in the game doing more productive things but it really does help some people with stressful jobs/lifes just to get away for a while or just kill some time.
I wouldn't advocate spending spending 12 hours aday playing. if it's a couple of hours here and their whats the harm.
I put off buying SC2 for a couple of months from release because i just knew once i started getting into the more competitive side of it it'd be hard as hell to stop for me and i wouldn't want to stop until i was the best "lol" and even if i dont become that good atleast it gives me a rest from the kids for a couple of hours
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Epic first post, and an excellent, excellent, excellent write-up. I'm fascinated by the same things you are, so it was cool to hear about your learning pursuits.
If this were a blog, I'd rate it a 5. Warm welcome to TeamLiquid.
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On December 23 2010 08:18 2GRe-Play- wrote:
im first one ^^, i like your story, i think playing to much if u are not going to be competitive its a waste of time, but it depends, because u should spend your time in what makes u happy, ppl said that games take your social life away, while this is 50/50 truth, ppl that just go out to drink and going to partys every weekend are wasting time too.
nice write.
Depends who you spend it with. If it is with some nobodies from the area then you might as well stay at home and play sc2.
If it is with people that have the potential to become someone in the future then you are establishing and keeping connections with those people that might benefit you one day when you need a favor or a job or a loan.
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I dont think that doing what makes you happy is a waste of time, but if you are neglecting the peole around you, the things that really matter, then you have taken it a step too far.
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Very good post, interesting stuff.
I don't know about the whole super-addiction thing. To me SC2 is less addictive and time consuming than WoW. As it takes way less time to actually see something done in SC2, one game usually takes less than 30 minutes, and you basically don't "keep" playing, you "restart" playing every time. Each game is a start over so it's easier to stop playing compared to being in a WoW raid or questing, and when you're done with a quest there's another right next to you and you're like "well I might as well get that done while I'm here". Imagine if you could "queue up" games in SC2, (I know it's impossible but imagine if) just before your game finishes, a message pops saying a new opponent is already waiting for your next game. That would make it more addicting, and actually annoying.
Right now the only thing that keeps me on SC2 longer than I wanted to is if I lose, I really hate logging off after a loss, I always feel like I need to win my last game of the day or else I can't get it out of my system.
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i played starcraft broodwar for 5 years, watched videos, played in 2 wcg classifications, cast local tournaments and participated in 3 dedicated communities (included this one) actively...
i waited 2 years for sc2, i won a contest (cake fest) and i played the beta from the beginning. I was in the local launching of sc2, i won the writing contest (blizzard) and i get a collector edition...
AND NOW I REALLY HATE SC2
boring to watch, horrible to play, and i dont respect the actual players nor the massive new community.
I think that SC2 its the best commercial movement by blizzard and game industries, but lacks of many things that made SC:BW THE BEST RTS EVER i know that im screwed, that for many years in the future sc2 and his expansions will prevail, but ill never forget sc:bw and THE BIG FAIL FROM BLIZZARD MAKING THIS NEW GAME
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Gaming, has not really lost any friends for me. I think one of the greatest assets to gaming, is that you make friends. The ice is sorta broken coz you and the other guy/girl you talk too have 1 thing in common, the game your playing. I actually have a stronger bond with my friends now, and even got some friends outside my country which i have visited, and i've know them for about 5-8 years now.
Gaming can destroy
But remember, gaming does allow greatness aswell.
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It really is incredibly simple.
If you enjoy doing something, it's not a waste of time. That's it. That really is all there is to it.
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Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.
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My experience shows that all the people that are taking video games too seriously are lacking something in other areas of life. It is just a game and it is for fun.
Statements such as: "Getting into the Diamond league is the goal of my life" are ridiculous!
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Its not beneficial, but its fun. Its like choosing to watch a movie or listen to music, so SC2 is for entertainment. Up to 2 hours a day is probably even beneficial because you spend that time entertained and forget about possible problems.
So like any other entertainment its not a waste of time because you have fun with it and apart from playing SC2 10 hours a day I'd say its beneficial.
I mean even hanging out with friends and GF 10 hours a day is not good, so a well balanced playing time and other activities are good.
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Well I think a lot of people are fked up because of the society. Is there any reason we can't relate starcraft2 to any other sport? It has all the things to be considered as a sport:
1 Outsmarting your opponent
2 Play faster, harder, and better to win
3 Luck is a small factor in the game
4 You can win by playing better, and you can use different styles to accomplish (just like football clubs have different styles of playing),
So don't let yourself demoralise by the society who don't really see it as a sport. It triggers the brain and it is one of the most intensive games ever created. I mean people are tired after a few heavy games already. Would you consider playing rugby football ore any other sport as a waste of time then you are right and sc is just a waste of time aswell.
Then the part of socialising, i have enough friends i see them a lot and i even create new friends on lan's. It actually makes me do more stuff than before. Because i am so in love with the game, i set up lan party's with friends went to the lan in Amsterdam and try to discuss strategy's with irl friends. Just like you would discuss any other sport with friends. And if you see your friends outside it, then there is no problem with it what so ever.
Btw nice post!
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This is a pretty interesting read. I am of opinion that video games are indeed good for you, but in the right amount and they should be played for fun, most of all.
On December 23 2010 11:02 Ridiculisk wrote:
Thats a good point! Lets start teaching SC2 in school haha!
People are already ahead of you. I read some 2 or 3 months ago about an economics university teacher (I think it was in Florida?) wanting to put in SC2 as a an actual class, due to its similiarities to real life economics. Let me see if I can find the source.
EDIT: Damnit, someone already beat it to me.
EDIT-2: http://www.industrygamers.com/news/starcraft-ii-now-offered-as-course-study-at-university-of-florida/ This is also another example.
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Great post OP, sounds like you would enjoy spending some time as a philosopher. I say as a philosopher because studying philosophy is not effective, yeah it's good to read what others think and learn from it, but ultimately philosophy is useless without practicing it for yourself. Which makes you a philosopher.
As far as the "real" benefits that starcraft 2 doesn't offer, that other things such as starting a business do offer, what is real? None of that stuff will go past your grave any more than your time playing starcraft 2 will. Obviously you want to be successful enough to take care of yourself, and maintain a desired standard of living, which is all a matter of personal preference - what standard of living do you want to be happy? Past that point, what is the successful business (for example) going to do? Get you more money, that you will spend on what? Well of course there are lots of things you could spend it on, but ultimately they will be things that either make you more safe and secure in life, or they will be "useless" things that you simply enjoy. I'm not arguing for or against anything, because how you assign value is up to. Maybe the actual act of running the business would be the best part, and all the perks of getting paid are just gravy? It really is different for everyone. What is a waste of time or what is a good use of time is all up to you, and what you want out of life. There are no rules, and we're all going to die.
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great zergling rush picture LOL also i liked the read. everything in moderation..! i play maybe 4 hours a week. and troll the forums during work lol
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Good read, your presentation was good too.
While yes video games are a waste of time to everyone as adults (which alot of us here are)
I would have to say that I have learned alot of thing from them.
Starcraft aside. If you don't know how to type for example. Spend a few hours in a dark room with your keyboard and try typing. You will eventually find the right keys and then learn the keyboard, same can be said for a game.
You learn things from them just not 'productive things' like a trade skill, or math or writing reading ect.
You do learn from them, desicion making, critical thinking, multi-tasking, timming.
Those are definantly life skills you need as well. Think of the proverbial 'all-in' for stock trading.
It would be risky to go after certain stocks; but someone who might have a higher risk factor analysis thinking (think about the 2rax rine/scv push, or, 1gate/robo, even 6pool) The risk-reward factor for them is like the stock market. If you do enough damage early, you should come out ahead or simply win. Same is true for stocks ect.
Gaming teaches you in a diffrent way. Given it did destroy my GPA, but oh well; my mistake (Yes I do own a buisness now which is doing really well thank the heavenly god...the overmind.)
Would I have taken that risk with out having played games? I can't say yes or no. I however can say I would have been more apprehensive about it if I didn't have something to put akin to the thought of losing early and winning late.
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always wondered why i was such a lady's man... loser suit larry! haha
all your bitchs are belong too me
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Its a game, just have fun.
Ppl seriously overthink stuff so much nowdays.
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my first reactions were that your weak willed~ you just couldn't stay away and now I get to trolled lol
good read none the less and I agree the game becomes less of a game when there is competition involved and people have to work at it rather than mindlessly experience it ;-)
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On December 25 2010 06:30 Fizbin wrote:always wondered why i was such a lady's man... loser suit larry! haha all your bitchs are belong too me
I hope you're aware that its leisure suit larry and are making a cute play on words.
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Sadly, I don't suffer from such afflictions as I can get into Diamond League?
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On December 23 2010 08:22 SamGamgee wrote:
If you enjoy playing a game, its not a waste of time.
If you dont enjoy it, dont play it.
Whether or not it has some other benefits or not is irrelevant if you are having fun doing something.
Completely agree. If you're having fun doing it then it can not be a waste of time.
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Great read, excelent text.
I have to say that I have the very same feeling towards any game that I want to play. Take in example, World of Warcraft. I would love to try it out, but I'm sure that I'd become 100% addicted to it. Thanks God this isnt the case on SC2.
I have to say that a lot of goods comes from SC2 - as long as you are connected to the e-sports scene, even if you are just a viewer like me. You do get to meet new people - even if only at internet - and you get to watch incredible over-human stuff, just like you would watching a Tennis match for example. Of course, it isn't ZOMG HIS BODY IS AWESOME, although most of the time his fingers must be awesome for what "he" does.
Thanks God I have incredible sleep problems. It's not that I can't sleep, its the exact opposite. I can't NOT sleep. So SC2 - and any other multiplayer competitive game - helps me out in that. It basically changes a whole day sleeping into a normal awaken day, sleeping at the correct times.
Anyways, excelent text. thumbs up for it.
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Fantastic read. I pretty much had the same concerns, but now my goal is to get good enough to win a CSL match for our team next semester before I finish my degree. This definitely blows most first posts out of the water, and welcome to the community!
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lol really no offense, but trying to justify playing starcraft by making up excuses and trying to find evidence that only supports your argument (conformation bias) isn't doing you any good. Games are for fun, period. If you play for one hour a day, then I guess it would be okay because you're wasting minimal time (although you could be using it on more useful things). The problem with games is, as you said, that they are addicting. You can't just quickly play for 10 minutes and be done with it, like other things (listening to music, practicing an instrument, etc). If you use it for anything else besides a quick relief from stress, then the negative aspects greatly outweigh the "positive" aspects, if any. I was a B+ zerg in starcraft bw. I didn't notice any cognitive changes or any benefits of playing it 4 hours a day. In fact, I noticed recently that my memory was a lot worse than it used to be. idk what it's caused by, but the "mental stimulation" by sc didn't help that much. In conclusion, if you tell yourself that starcraft has any benefits, you may be right. But if you believe those small, unnoticeable, and almost nonexistent benefits outweigh the time wasted, then you're just making excuses for yourself because you want to justify playing it.
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let me get metaphysical
life smatters at you unexpectedness, the odds fade away
execution and interpretation are glorious ends
the inkling of inspiration and improvisation are so human
they want instinct to explode, tempered by the execution
SC is creative, and extremely musical, we are all musicians really
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This actually made me sad on a few different levels.
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isnt shokz the guy who did that shitty strategy guide
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Well it is up to you how serious you want to take it Just make sure you are having fun while playing man, while keeping every part of your life balanced.
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On January 23 2011 08:16 iPood wrote:
lol really no offense, but trying to justify playing starcraft by making up excuses and trying to find evidence that only supports your argument (conformation bias) isn't doing you any good. Games are for fun, period. If you play for one hour a day, then I guess it would be okay because you're wasting minimal time (although you could be using it on more useful things). The problem with games is, as you said, that they are addicting. You can't just quickly play for 10 minutes and be done with it, like other things (listening to music, practicing an instrument, etc). If you use it for anything else besides a quick relief from stress, then the negative aspects greatly outweigh the "positive" aspects, if any. I was a B+ zerg in starcraft bw. I didn't notice any cognitive changes or any benefits of playing it 4 hours a day. In fact, I noticed recently that my memory was a lot worse than it used to be. idk what it's caused by, but the "mental stimulation" by sc didn't help that much. In conclusion, if you tell yourself that starcraft has any benefits, you may be right. But if you believe those small, unnoticeable, and almost nonexistent benefits outweigh the time wasted, then you're just making excuses for yourself because you want to justify playing it.
And using anecdotal evidence based off one perspective (yours) is better?
I don't even think that video games are that special in terms of benefits, but that was pretty hypocritical.
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On January 23 2011 13:43 Redmark wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 08:16 iPood wrote:
lol really no offense, but trying to justify playing starcraft by making up excuses and trying to find evidence that only supports your argument (conformation bias) isn't doing you any good. Games are for fun, period. If you play for one hour a day, then I guess it would be okay because you're wasting minimal time (although you could be using it on more useful things). The problem with games is, as you said, that they are addicting. You can't just quickly play for 10 minutes and be done with it, like other things (listening to music, practicing an instrument, etc). If you use it for anything else besides a quick relief from stress, then the negative aspects greatly outweigh the "positive" aspects, if any. I was a B+ zerg in starcraft bw. I didn't notice any cognitive changes or any benefits of playing it 4 hours a day. In fact, I noticed recently that my memory was a lot worse than it used to be. idk what it's caused by, but the "mental stimulation" by sc didn't help that much. In conclusion, if you tell yourself that starcraft has any benefits, you may be right. But if you believe those small, unnoticeable, and almost nonexistent benefits outweigh the time wasted, then you're just making excuses for yourself because you want to justify playing it. And using anecdotal evidence based off one perspective (yours) is better? I don't even think that video games are that special in terms of benefits, but that was pretty hypocritical.
if you don't agree with what I say, then why dont you give arguments against it, not say random stuff. I wasn't basing my whole argument on my own story. Why don't you think logically for once. Is it worth it to spend 2 hrs a day (usually what a "casual" gamer is), 14 hrs a week, and 728 hours a year to play a game? And get out of it almost nothing? Am I saying it's bad? no. I'm saying its a game, and games are for fun. Trying to fool yourself into believing that how you're wasting time will have a lasting impact on your future and your success later in life is just being idiotic.
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EPT
