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On December 04 2010 11:37 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:32 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 11:30 Sfydjklm wrote:On December 04 2010 11:20 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 11:17 vyyye wrote:
What Blizzard is trying to tell me is that phoenix are now invincible? It's 100% impossible to kill them now, unless the protoss does something ridiculously stupid. Awesome, why the fuck was that necessary?
What if protoss learned to micro and spread their phoenix out to minimize fungal effect instead? I mean.. what the hell?
Other than obvious nice things like chat channels, I'm really not fond of the balancing. I don't get why they changed the void ray either, how was the speed upgrade in need of removal? Bunker build time again, why?
No, I don't get it. what? how is it 100% impossible to kill them? they are JUST like mutas in how easy they are to kill. u realize that to use gravitron whatever-the-fuck the protoss has to stop moving the phoenix right? Just like mutas, except Faster More hp Bigger range Smaller attack cooldown No counter in zerg army u forgot to add *don't hit ground* and *shots dont bounce* *costs 50% more gas* since we are counting everything they do hit ground with graviton beam they do significantly more damage even if you count bounce damage. But how would i expect someone who comes to an arguement not even knowing how much the unit theyre arguing about cost. Youre either completely clueless or are a troll.
yeah, i wrote gas instead of minerals, so im completely clueless!
wtf is ur problem
and they don't hit ground with gravitron beam. they pick stuff up, which other phoenixes can hit because it's in the air. which also causes the phoenix that picks it up to stop moving, during which any zerg could hit it because it can't run away.
yes, im aware u know all this, but im just affording u the same courtesy u showed me
i love how ridiculously butthurt u get over this shit, because i dare to say that phoenixes aren't impossible to kill.
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On December 04 2010 11:02 MindRush wrote:
wow, fungal growth change is HUGE, it affects everything
i guess sniping those pesky overlords with banshees, mutalisks , phoenixes is quite possible now
The day you can snipe overlords with banshees is the day I uninstall SCII.
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What's the deal of not being able to hold down a hotkey to make units from larva? I honestly don't understand why that's a bug in the first place if every production facility in the game has the same feature.
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Corruptors are pretty godo against phoenixes and the sort. Definitely if you have equal amounts of phoenix vs corruptors corruptors win... so there is still some options....
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I really wish hydras got a speed upgrade on and off creep. then they wouldnt need anything else to stop drops, just slither hydras from your 4th to your main within 3 seconds
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Yeah, as a protoss who loves air units, I'm incredibly happy with these changes.
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On December 04 2010 11:40 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:38 Nyx wrote:
Am I the only person who sees the ultralisk change?
It's going to buff the hell out of the ultra. That change benefits zerg so we're all gonna ignore it and baww our eyes out about phoenixes now being invincible without playing a single game sup
yeah I havent played this patch yet but as far as I can tell ultras cant jump yet
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On December 04 2010 11:41 DoubleLariat wrote:
-_- I do not understand why people keep complaining about removing flux vanes and then ignore the fact that...
they got a 20% boost to massive.
Do you not understand that this means you now have great options against ultras (which eat just about every protoss unit), thors, and colossi? There is now a very effective way to deal with colossi such that Protoss vs. Protoss will not turn into a war of the worlds civil war. (I am brainwashed by Day9 to not say words such as hard conter =P)
I doubt void rays will be the answer to ultras, they're too easily countered for their cost. Sure, in a 200/200 army they'll be more useful but I doubt they'll "take over". Same for colossi I presume, though I don't play PvP.
As for thors.. don't you have immortals for that?
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On December 04 2010 11:41 DoubleLariat wrote:
-_- I do not understand why people keep complaining about removing flux vanes and then ignore the fact that...
they got a 20% boost to massive.
Do you not understand that this means you now have great options against ultras (which eat just about every protoss unit), thors, and colossi? There is now a very effective way to deal with colossi such that Protoss vs. Protoss will not turn into a war of the worlds civil war. (I am brainwashed by Day9 to not say words such as hard conter =P)
This is totally right, clearly an attempt to stop the "whoever gets more colossus wins" situation right now in pvp. Opens up more varieties for openings
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defeated, you immediately start a spire, which alone takes 100 seconds, another 37
seconds to get mutas out (100/100 each) and they will probably need to fly for at
least 40 seconds to get to his lifted cc AND mutas take forever to kill a cc, so a
terran in this situation can force a draw out of most games.
if no players have income, production, or destroyed any structures for three consecutive minutes.
If NEITHER PLAYER has any production, income or structres for 3 minutes.
In the example you said you had production, both building and units. Thus the timer did not start.
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• The Ultralisk’s arc-shaped damage area is now centered at the front of the Ultralisk instead of at its center.
Uhm this buff is kinda a big deal, as ultras cost effectiveness increases. With no consequence at all, those late game ultra pushes in TvZ are gonna be tough.
btw anyone know how the splash damage for ultras works?
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On December 04 2010 11:41 cannavaro wrote:
Stalemate protection with 3 minutes is definately too short, should be 5 minutes at
least. Imagine the following: You are zerg, don't have a spire, kill his base, he isn't
defeated, you immediately start a spire, which alone takes 100 seconds, another 37
seconds to get mutas out (100/100 each) and they will probably need to fly for at
least 40 seconds to get to his lifted cc AND mutas take forever to kill a cc, so a
terran in this situation can force a draw out of most games.
Should be more than 3 minute or/and the condition should be that a building is
attacked, not destroyed.
Fungal Growth no longer affects air units.
Yay, every mirror's going to be either an early 1-base allin or mutas vs mutas,
terran drops will be even stronger, protoss air is gonna be a nightmare, especially
phoenix with their new build time.
I also think that fungal growth was overpowered vs large clusters of air units since
they bunch up so much.
A good implementation would imo be something like: "Hits every ground target in
the target circle, but is applied to random 4 (number I think that would be fair) air
units in the target circle. "
• Harvesting units no longer avoid enemy units.
Good: Can kill every scout that walks through your mineral line, but will only work
for a short time until people stop to walk through it.
Bad: Defending vs 6/7 pool is gonna be a real pain in the ass.
• Fixed an issue where Larva could produce units by holding down hotkeys.
Yeah of course..fixed an issue. Was bugged like hell, yup yup.
edit: wth happened to my post after I wrote it in editor and c/p'ed it....fixing it up...
Just so you know if you read it "stalemate will be activated if nothing is being produced, structures being destroyed, and no income".
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Pheonix can be counter by corruptors easy. It'll change ZvZ match up since mass muta is no longer afraid of fungal growth. I don't use infestor that much anyway so don't really care.
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The only real matchup the fungal change bothers me in, is actually ZvZ. It's just going to be a race to get mutas.
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On December 04 2010 11:20 LittleeD wrote:Show nested quote +• Added combat reveal tinting to help show that combat reveal units cannot be hit. All diagonal ramps are now the same with regards to unbuildable locations at the bottom of the ramps.
Possibly The end of Pylon/Bunker ramp cheese. Nice to see
So really you cant build anything at the bottom of a ramp?
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On December 04 2010 11:43 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:41 DoubleLariat wrote:
-_- I do not understand why people keep complaining about removing flux vanes and then ignore the fact that...
they got a 20% boost to massive.
Do you not understand that this means you now have great options against ultras (which eat just about every protoss unit), thors, and colossi? There is now a very effective way to deal with colossi such that Protoss vs. Protoss will not turn into a war of the worlds civil war. (I am brainwashed by Day9 to not say words such as hard conter =P) I doubt void rays will be the answer to ultras, they're too easily countered for their cost. Sure, in a 200/200 army they'll be more useful but I doubt they'll "take over". Same for colossi I presume, though I don't play PvP. As for thors.. don't you have immortals for that?
IdrA lost GSL1 metalop game 3 vs Lotze because he had ultras/roach at protoss base and void rays came out.
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dont understand observer update
Noone ever complained about the price and it already was cheap
terran lacks a good and cheap mobile detection compared to toss and zerg (mules dont count, they are to compensate for chrono boost and zerg macro and the scan last only 10 seconds and doesnt move)
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Don't forget about the massive air units too! ^^
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On December 04 2010 11:35 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:34 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On December 04 2010 11:32 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 11:30 Sfydjklm wrote:On December 04 2010 11:20 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 11:17 vyyye wrote:
What Blizzard is trying to tell me is that phoenix are now invincible? It's 100% impossible to kill them now, unless the protoss does something ridiculously stupid. Awesome, why the fuck was that necessary?
What if protoss learned to micro and spread their phoenix out to minimize fungal effect instead? I mean.. what the hell?
Other than obvious nice things like chat channels, I'm really not fond of the balancing. I don't get why they changed the void ray either, how was the speed upgrade in need of removal? Bunker build time again, why?
No, I don't get it. what? how is it 100% impossible to kill them? they are JUST like mutas in how easy they are to kill. u realize that to use gravitron whatever-the-fuck the protoss has to stop moving the phoenix right? Just like mutas, except Faster More hp Bigger range Smaller attack cooldown No counter in zerg army u forgot to add *don't hit ground* and *shots dont bounce* *costs 50% more gas* since we are counting everything pssst..... minerals not gas. dont shoot me D: yeah i fixed it lol anyways, i DO suspect that protoss air will be OP vs zerg. and if they keep the fungal change they are def gonna need to buff hydra speed, no real reason not to also, i have trouble agreeing with everyone saying mutalisk is going to dominate zvz now. i guess myabe it will... but for the cost doesn't hydra/roach beat muta/ling in headon collision? but i don't play z so it's something i'd like to hear from dem zergs
My standard midgame is roach/hydra/infestor in ZvZ and I can tell you that fungal is critical against any competent muta harassment. Without it, you find yourself slowly peeled apart by muta pokes. Like I said in a previous post, this is similar to removing splash from Thors. The ZvT muta harass dynamic would be completely different to what it is now in terms of micro/clumping. Without this, mutas will be able to squeeze into any weak-spot, snipe, then fly when hydras drag themselves over. Infestors would be able to capitalize on any critical clumping errors, and assuming the opponent hadn't got an effective 3rd going or produced the essential tech for a head on battle, then he would find himself in huge trouble once the muta threat was dealt with. It created a cool balance of muta harass + expanding/teching and solid 2 base macro waiting for that money FG. Now it seems that unless there is some other change to compensate (hydra speed has been noted), ZvZ will become mass muta and whoever holds the superior numbers will dominate.
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On December 04 2010 11:41 DoubleLariat wrote:
-_- I do not understand why people keep complaining about removing flux vanes and then ignore the fact that...
they got a 20% boost to massive.
Do you not understand that this means you now have great options against ultras (which eat just about every protoss unit), thors, and colossi? There is now a very effective way to deal with colossi such that Protoss vs. Protoss will not turn into a war of the worlds civil war. (I am brainwashed by Day9 to not say words such as hard conter =P)
They'll need a lot more than just 20%, maybe if it was 40-50% then void rays actually be a decent counter to colossi.
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EPT
